From dougkearns at gmail.com  Thu Oct  1 01:04:05 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 18:04:05 +1000
Subject: [Vimperator] Some notes about moving to Hg
In-Reply-To: <20090926061644.GB17313@jg>
References: <20090926061644.GB17313@jg>
Message-ID: <644fc65e0910010104s26d2b5e9ub66e85494673fc27@mail.gmail.com>

Any Zsh users will want to update their completion script with this
one: http://selenic.com/repo/hg-stable/raw-file/tip/contrib/zsh_completion

The one in the Zsh repo is ancient - I'm not sure how they're being synched.

Doug

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Thu Oct  1 05:33:40 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2009 14:33:40 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] license header
Message-ID: <4AC4A1A4.3030208@vimperator.org>

Hi,

I am in the process of reviewing all source files and changing
the license headers in each file to MIT, retaining the current
Copyright (c) ... string.

>From what I shortly gathered on the internet (but those infos
can often be wrong), GPL requires a short notice, MIT doesn't.

So, I'd like to remove ALL license headers and just keep lines
like:

Copyright (c) 2006-2009 Kris ...

Would that be ok for the devs, and -- Ted usually knows quite
a lot about legal things -- is there some legal differences,
or is it absolutely ok, to just include the License once
in a seperate file?

--
Martin

From now at bitwi.se  Thu Oct  1 06:24:23 2009
From: now at bitwi.se (Nikolai Weibull)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 15:24:23 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] license header
In-Reply-To: <4AC4A1A4.3030208@vimperator.org>
References: <4AC4A1A4.3030208@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <dbfc82860910010624u6868fe5co7d699d289b4569de@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 14:33, Martin Stubenschrott
<stubenschrott at vimperator.org> wrote:

> Copyright (c) 2006-2009 Kris ...
>
> Would that be ok for the devs, and -- Ted usually knows quite
> a lot about legal things -- is there some legal differences,
> or is it absolutely ok, to just include the License once
> in a seperate file?

Can he perhaps also clarify if a Copyright line is required?  (The one
above is not legal, as far as I understand, as ?(c)? isn?t recognized
as a Copyright symbol.  It should be either ?Copyright <Year> <Name>?
or ?? <Year> <Name>?.  And, as far as I understand, only the year of
the most recent change is required.  And, as far as I understand, a
year range, like the one above, isn?t valid.  And, as far as I
understand, under current law, everything is under an assumed
copyright anyway.  Of course, that won?t apply in countries where
current copyright law isn?t recognize, but my guess is that that won?t
matter anyway.)

From ted at tedpavlic.com  Thu Oct  1 07:51:38 2009
From: ted at tedpavlic.com (Ted Pavlic)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 10:51:38 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] license header
In-Reply-To: <dbfc82860910010624u6868fe5co7d699d289b4569de@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AC4A1A4.3030208@vimperator.org>
	<dbfc82860910010624u6868fe5co7d699d289b4569de@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4e0a90ed0910010751o6546f72cne613adee872fe790@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not an authority on these things. I just do a lot of written
publishing, and I'm borrowing from what I know about that area.

Here's my understanding:

(i) In most of the world, copyright is implicit. In fact, it's nearly
impossible to put something in "public domain." The best you can do is
make your copyright explicit and release it for everything under the
sun (where you have to list exactly what everything under the sun
is/are).

(ii) The word "Copyright" carries all the weight. "(c)" is just
provided as a convenience for those who think it should be there.
Alternatively, a circled "c" carries the same weight as "copyright",
but I like to keep things in 7-bit ASCII whenever possible (for
portability).

(iii) Only the most recent year is required, certainly, but it is good
to *list* the others for historical convenience. It is certainly a
good idea to keep record of them so that 2003 work of yours that looks
like 2005 work of someone else's doesn't get claimed as being stolen
when you erase the 2003 and replace it with a 2009.

(iv) Year ranges don't mean anything. You have to make the years
explicit. However, by (iii), it is sometimes sufficient only to list
the oldest and newest years. If space isn't an issue, list every year
where a change has been made (e.g., when a change is made to a
particular file, update the year list in that particular file; the
lists don't have to agree across all files).

So my recommendation (where the optional "(c)" is provided here for
style reasons, but it can be omitted for style reasons) is...

    Copyright (c) 2003, 2004, 2007 by (author list...)
    This work is licensed for reuse under an MIT license. Details are
given in the LICENSE.txt file included with this file.

or something similar to that.

Remember that the issue isn't holding onto your rights. The issue is
convincing someone else that you'll let them reuse your work. So do
your best at communicating that you are OK with reuse. If someone
isn't sure, they'll contact the authors and verify.

--Ted


> Can he perhaps also clarify if a Copyright line is required? ?(The one
> above is not legal, as far as I understand, as ?(c)? isn?t recognized
> as a Copyright symbol. ?It should be either ?Copyright <Year> <Name>?
> or ?? <Year> <Name>?. ?And, as far as I understand, only the year of
> the most recent change is required. ?And, as far as I understand, a
> year range, like the one above, isn?t valid. ?And, as far as I
> understand, under current law, everything is under an assumed
> copyright anyway. ?Of course, that won?t apply in countries where
> current copyright law isn?t recognize, but my guess is that that won?t
> matter anyway.)





-- 
Ted Pavlic <ted at tedpavlic.com>

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Thu Oct  1 07:54:39 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2009 16:54:39 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] license header
In-Reply-To: <4e0a90ed0910010751o6546f72cne613adee872fe790@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AC4A1A4.3030208@vimperator.org>	<dbfc82860910010624u6868fe5co7d699d289b4569de@mail.gmail.com>
	<4e0a90ed0910010751o6546f72cne613adee872fe790@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AC4C2AF.4000306@vimperator.org>

On 10/01/2009 04:51 PM, Ted Pavlic wrote:

>     Copyright (c) 2003, 2004, 2007 by (author list...)
>     This work is licensed for reuse under an MIT license. Details are
> given in the LICENSE.txt file included with this file.


Yeah, something like that would also be my preferred header.

Thanks also for the other clarification.

From gary.katsevman at gmail.com  Thu Oct  1 08:01:12 2009
From: gary.katsevman at gmail.com (Gary Katsevman)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 11:01:12 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] license header
In-Reply-To: <dbfc82860910010624u6868fe5co7d699d289b4569de@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AC4A1A4.3030208@vimperator.org>
	<dbfc82860910010624u6868fe5co7d699d289b4569de@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <97265dfa0910010801r38d7f16dl726729415d112342@mail.gmail.com>

The WIPO Copyright Treaty pronounced computer programs as literary
works while the UCC and the Berne convention state that a work is
automatically copyrighted to the author throughout his life, unless
other arrangements has been made. Thus it is not needed to have a
copyright notice unless the copyright extends beyond the author's life
or to show copyright in places where the UCC and the Berne conventions
dont apply, though, it is probably good to keep it. The only way to
get something to the public domain is when releasing a work stating
that the work is released from copyright and released under the public
domain, or something like that. Ted made a pretty nice summary of some
of the other things I wanted to say.

Also, wikipedia has a whole bunch of reading material if anyone is
interested on finding out more and double check everything.
------------------------
Gary Katsevman
Computer Science Undergraduate
Northeastern University
gkatsev at ccs.neu.edu
gkatsev.com



On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 09:24, Nikolai Weibull <now at bitwi.se> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 14:33, Martin Stubenschrott
> <stubenschrott at vimperator.org> wrote:
>
>> Copyright (c) 2006-2009 Kris ...
>>
>> Would that be ok for the devs, and -- Ted usually knows quite
>> a lot about legal things -- is there some legal differences,
>> or is it absolutely ok, to just include the License once
>> in a seperate file?
>
> Can he perhaps also clarify if a Copyright line is required? ?(The one
> above is not legal, as far as I understand, as ?(c)? isn?t recognized
> as a Copyright symbol. ?It should be either ?Copyright <Year> <Name>?
> or ?? <Year> <Name>?. ?And, as far as I understand, only the year of
> the most recent change is required. ?And, as far as I understand, a
> year range, like the one above, isn?t valid. ?And, as far as I
> understand, under current law, everything is under an assumed
> copyright anyway. ?Of course, that won?t apply in countries where
> current copyright law isn?t recognize, but my guess is that that won?t
> matter anyway.)
> _______________________________________________
> Vimperator mailing list
> Vimperator at mozdev.org
> https://www.mozdev.org/mailman/listinfo/vimperator
>

From now at bitwi.se  Thu Oct  1 08:03:16 2009
From: now at bitwi.se (Nikolai Weibull)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 17:03:16 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] license header
In-Reply-To: <4e0a90ed0910010751o6546f72cne613adee872fe790@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AC4A1A4.3030208@vimperator.org>
	<dbfc82860910010624u6868fe5co7d699d289b4569de@mail.gmail.com>
	<4e0a90ed0910010751o6546f72cne613adee872fe790@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dbfc82860910010803t78200a40v5c7350f0c0e7296@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 16:51, Ted Pavlic <ted at tedpavlic.com> wrote:

> (iii) Only the most recent year is required, certainly, but it is good
> to *list* the others for historical convenience. It is certainly a
> good idea to keep record of them so that 2003 work of yours that looks
> like 2005 work of someone else's doesn't get claimed as being stolen
> when you erase the 2003 and replace it with a 2009.

Couldn?t one argue that revision control lets you ignore previous
years, as you can easily regenerate the file?s contents at any given
point in the past?

> Remember that the issue isn't holding onto your rights. The issue is
> convincing someone else that you'll let them reuse your work. So do
> your best at communicating that you are OK with reuse. If someone
> isn't sure, they'll contact the authors and verify.

Yes, precisely.  This is the twist that many seem to miss.  /You/ have
all the power and all you?re doing is sharing it with someone else,
should they want it.

Still, it?s always nice to know when someone is interested in your
work and a Copyright/license inquiry will tell you, the author, that
someone is about to use your work.

From ted at tedpavlic.com  Thu Oct  1 08:05:21 2009
From: ted at tedpavlic.com (Ted Pavlic)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 11:05:21 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Some notes about moving to Hg
In-Reply-To: <644fc65e0910010104s26d2b5e9ub66e85494673fc27@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090926061644.GB17313@jg>
	<644fc65e0910010104s26d2b5e9ub66e85494673fc27@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4e0a90ed0910010805w1d2b17e9y7e56669fc3a2e3dd@mail.gmail.com>

> one: http://selenic.com/repo/hg-stable/raw-file/tip/contrib/zsh_completion

On that note, people should look through the "contrib" folder for
other nice tools. You'll find a bash completion script (and some vim
support, IIRC).

One nice thing about the (bash) git completion script is that it
includes a function for stylizing your PS1 prompt that gives you
information about the state of the repository (e.g., branch, whether
it's dirty or not, etc.). I don't think it's included in the hg
completion script, but there are some similar projects for hg.
Unfortunately, I think they have a bigger performance hit on your PS1
generation than the git solution (partly because the structure of the
.git directory is not meant to be as hidden/encapsulated as the .hg
structure).

--Ted


-- 
Ted Pavlic <ted at tedpavlic.com>

From dougkearns at gmail.com  Thu Oct  1 08:49:29 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 01:49:29 +1000
Subject: [Vimperator] Some notes about moving to Hg
In-Reply-To: <4e0a90ed0910010805w1d2b17e9y7e56669fc3a2e3dd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090926061644.GB17313@jg>
	<644fc65e0910010104s26d2b5e9ub66e85494673fc27@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4e0a90ed0910010805w1d2b17e9y7e56669fc3a2e3dd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <644fc65e0910010849q3c2669e7k517e1259bce3351e@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 1:05 AM, Ted Pavlic <ted at tedpavlic.com> wrote:
<snip>
> One nice thing about the (bash) git completion script is that it
> includes a function for stylizing your PS1 prompt that gives you
> information about the state of the repository (e.g., branch, whether
> it's dirty or not, etc.).

Likewise, Zsh includes this functionality for a dozen or so VCSs via
the vcs_info module.  I've found this to be very useful.

Doug

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Thu Oct  1 09:42:41 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 12:42:41 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] license header
In-Reply-To: <4AC4A1A4.3030208@vimperator.org>
References: <4AC4A1A4.3030208@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091001164241.GR18792@jg>

On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 02:33:40PM +0200, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>I am in the process of reviewing all source files and changing
>the license headers in each file to MIT, retaining the current
>Copyright (c) ... string.

I generally use:

/* ?2009 Kris Maglione <email address>
  * See LICENSE file for license details.
  */

"Available under the terms of the MIT license" would probably be 
a good addition. The license doesn't need to appear in the 
source file, so long as it's actually distributed with it. That 
means in XPIs, too.

-- 
Kris Maglione

?Did God have a mother?? Children, when told that God made the heavens
and the earth, innocently ask whether God had a mother.  This
deceptively simple question has stumped the elders of the church and
embarrassed the finest theologians, precipitating some of the
thorniest theological debates over the centuries.  All the great
religions have elaborate mythologies surrounding the divine act of
Creation, but none of them adequately confronts the logical paradoxes
inherent in the question that even children ask.
	--Michio Kaku


From now at bitwi.se  Thu Oct  1 12:36:05 2009
From: now at bitwi.se (Nikolai Weibull)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 21:36:05 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] license header
In-Reply-To: <20091001164241.GR18792@jg>
References: <4AC4A1A4.3030208@vimperator.org> <20091001164241.GR18792@jg>
Message-ID: <dbfc82860910011236x2e3110dm3641fb0d4027e8aa@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 18:42, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 02:33:40PM +0200, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:

> /* ?2009 Kris Maglione <email address>
> ?* See LICENSE file for license details.
> ?*/

> "Available under the terms of the MIT license" would probably be a good
> addition. The license doesn't need to appear in the source file, so long as
> it's actually distributed with it. That means in XPIs, too.

Just to clarify, including the license with the source files and
ditribution is just a convenience for people who may want to use it,
not to protect YOUR rights.

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Thu Oct  1 12:45:22 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 15:45:22 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] license header
In-Reply-To: <dbfc82860910011236x2e3110dm3641fb0d4027e8aa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AC4A1A4.3030208@vimperator.org> <20091001164241.GR18792@jg>
	<dbfc82860910011236x2e3110dm3641fb0d4027e8aa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091001194522.GU18792@jg>

On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 09:36:05PM +0200, Nikolai Weibull wrote:
>On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 18:42, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
>> "Available under the terms of the MIT license" would probably be a good
>> addition. The license doesn't need to appear in the source file, so long as
>> it's actually distributed with it. That means in XPIs, too.
>
>Just to clarify, including the license with the source files and
>ditribution is just a convenience for people who may want to use it,
>not to protect YOUR rights.

Not quite. The license itself requires that it be included with 
the source:

     The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in 
     all copies or substantial portions of the Software. 

-- 
Kris Maglione

If you want to go somewhere, goto is the best way to get there.
	--Ken Thompson


From now at bitwi.se  Thu Oct  1 13:35:00 2009
From: now at bitwi.se (Nikolai Weibull)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 22:35:00 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] license header
In-Reply-To: <20091001194522.GU18792@jg>
References: <4AC4A1A4.3030208@vimperator.org> <20091001164241.GR18792@jg>
	<dbfc82860910011236x2e3110dm3641fb0d4027e8aa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091001194522.GU18792@jg>
Message-ID: <dbfc82860910011335y5d827ac2nb8cc5d6311a144f5@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 21:45, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 09:36:05PM +0200, Nikolai Weibull wrote:

>> On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 18:42, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:

>>> "Available under the terms of the MIT license" would probably be a good
>>> addition. The license doesn't need to appear in the source file, so long
>>> as
>>> it's actually distributed with it. That means in XPIs, too.

>> Just to clarify, including the license with the source files and
>> ditribution is just a convenience for people who may want to use it,
>> not to protect YOUR rights.

> Not quite. The license itself requires that it be included with the source:
>
> ? ?The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included
> in ? ?all copies or substantial portions of the Software.

Hm, true, yet I would assume that this refers to copies other than the
owner?s ?original copy?.  Either way, it?s of course sensible to
include the license.

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Fri Oct  2 15:40:27 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 00:40:27 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] license header
In-Reply-To: <4AC4A1A4.3030208@vimperator.org>
References: <4AC4A1A4.3030208@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <4AC6815B.4050604@vimperator.org>

I finally moved all files to the new-style license headers.

Some notes:

1.) I used // for the comments as I think that looks nicer
    than the /* ... */ contruct in this case

2.) I also used Copyright (c) instead of the "official"
    copyright symbol for the same reason as 1.)

3.) Some files were missing copyright information, I have
    added them from memory, please change if i made
    some mistake.

4.) I used 2006-2009 style like notation, as the lines
    would become REALLY long in a few years if I listed
    every year specially. The first year should note
    when the file was first created though.

5.) For now, all files just have one author. However, when
    people do work more on any one than just fixing a few
    small bugs, they may want to add themselves there.
    Although again, this could become a space problem, when
    more than 10 people are listed there. Maybe the AUTHORS
    file is also ok therefore.

6.) I removed the (spurious) copyright information from CSS
    files, I don't really think they are required there.
    We should probably do the same for .xul files as well.

7.) In general, I made all license headers look the same.
    Please try to follow this style, even if your personal
    preference varies. If you have a good argument for a
    style change, discuss it here, and then change ALL files.

Since I can't currently build vimperator fully with docs,
can you - Doug - release 2.2 on addons.mozilla.org (and don't
forget to change the license there, if you are asked)?
I think it is ready now.

--
Martin

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Fri Oct  2 16:17:34 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 19:17:34 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] license header
In-Reply-To: <4AC6815B.4050604@vimperator.org>
References: <4AC4A1A4.3030208@vimperator.org> <4AC6815B.4050604@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091002231734.GX18792@jg>

On Sat, Oct 03, 2009 at 12:40:27AM +0200, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>3.) Some files were missing copyright information, I have
>    added them from memory, please change if i made
>    some mistake.

hg blame

>6.) I removed the (spurious) copyright information from CSS
>    files, I don't really think they are required there.
>    We should probably do the same for .xul files as well.

It's not spurious, especially in the CSS file. Even if it's 
trivial, it's an artistic work and thus intellectual property.

>Since I can't currently build vimperator fully with docs,
>can you - Doug - release 2.2 on addons.mozilla.org (and don't
>forget to change the license there, if you are asked)?
>I think it is ready now.

I haven't been able to build the docs in months, despite my 
efforts...

-- 
Kris Maglione

We should forget about small efficiencies, say about 97% of the time:
premature optimization is the root of all evil.
	--Donald Knuth


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Fri Oct  2 16:21:13 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 19:21:13 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] license header
In-Reply-To: <20091002231734.GX18792@jg>
References: <4AC4A1A4.3030208@vimperator.org>
	<4AC6815B.4050604@vimperator.org> <20091002231734.GX18792@jg>
Message-ID: <20091002232113.GY18792@jg>

On Fri, Oct 02, 2009 at 07:17:34PM -0400, Kris Maglione wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 03, 2009 at 12:40:27AM +0200, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>> 3.) Some files were missing copyright information, I have
>>    added them from memory, please change if i made
>>    some mistake.
>
> hg blame

Ok, hg blame lies, especially given that git lacks explicit 
rename tracking. Daniel owns just about everything now. So, hg 
log, too.

-- 
Kris Maglione

Complexity kills.  It sucks the life out of developers, it makes
products difficult to plan, build and test, it introduces security
challenges and it causes end-user and administrator frustration.
	--Ray Ozzie


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Fri Oct  2 16:43:47 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 19:43:47 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] license header
In-Reply-To: <4AC6815B.4050604@vimperator.org>
References: <4AC4A1A4.3030208@vimperator.org> <4AC6815B.4050604@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091002234347.GZ18792@jg>

On Sat, Oct 03, 2009 at 12:40:27AM +0200, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>I finally moved all files to the new-style license headers.

diff --git a/vimperator/NEWS b/vimperator/NEWS
--- a/vimperator/NEWS
+++ b/vimperator/NEWS
@@ -1,5 +1,7 @@
  2009-XX-XX:
      * version 2.2a1pre
+    * IMPORTANT: Vimperator is from now on ONLY licensed unter the MIT
+      license, if you need a GPL, LGPL or MPL version, please use Vimperator 2.1
      * IMPORTANT: Map.flags has been replaced with individual properties.
        Mappings defined in plugins with mappings.add will need to be updated.
  ...................................

I really don't think the latter part of that message is 
necessary. There's no appreciable difference between 
sublicensing an MIT licensed file under the GPL and licensing it 
directly under the GPL. As the FSF agrees, I don't a need for 
such a notice.

-- 
Kris Maglione

If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be
the process of putting them in.
	--Edsger W. Dijkstra


From dougkearns at gmail.com  Fri Oct  2 21:36:01 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 14:36:01 +1000
Subject: [Vimperator] Building documentation (was Re:  license header)
Message-ID: <644fc65e0910022136g5c3dddadxc87a9d7d80647cad@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 9:17 AM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 03, 2009 at 12:40:27AM +0200, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
<snip>
>> Since I can't currently build vimperator fully with docs,
>> can you - Doug - release 2.2 on addons.mozilla.org (and don't
>> forget to change the license there, if you are asked)?
>> I think it is ready now.
>
> I haven't been able to build the docs in months, despite my efforts...

It builds from a clean checkout with Asciidoc 8.4.5 (8.4 is a
requirement) for me.  As your efforts are usually reasonable I can't
hazard a guess as to the problem.  Any ideas? Asciidoc hating aside...

Doug

From dougkearns at gmail.com  Fri Oct  2 21:37:57 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 14:37:57 +1000
Subject: [Vimperator] license header
In-Reply-To: <20091002231734.GX18792@jg>
References: <4AC4A1A4.3030208@vimperator.org>
	<4AC6815B.4050604@vimperator.org> <20091002231734.GX18792@jg>
Message-ID: <644fc65e0910022137y7498106ei456eeeb4cb14c8d9@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 9:17 AM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 03, 2009 at 12:40:27AM +0200, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
<snip>
>> 6.) I removed the (spurious) copyright information from CSS
>> ? files, I don't really think they are required there.
>> ? We should probably do the same for .xul files as well.
>
> It's not spurious, especially in the CSS file. Even if it's trivial, it's an
> artistic work and thus intellectual property.

+1, if we really care about this topic. :)

Doug

From dougkearns at gmail.com  Fri Oct  2 21:41:04 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 14:41:04 +1000
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <20090918143341.GA12114@jg.domain_not_set.invalid>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org>
	<4AB29788.1040106@vimperator.org> 
	<20090917202355.GA29410@jg.domain_not_set.invalid>
	<4AB2B593.8050404@vimperator.org> 
	<644fc65e0909171926k2021fc74od32d2acf531b9447@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090918143341.GA12114@jg.domain_not_set.invalid>
Message-ID: <644fc65e0910022141i6739c6f1ka29f15e36f54254@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 12:33 AM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 12:26:56PM +1000, Doug Kearns wrote:
>>
>> However, I do think multiple licenses and code 'ownership' by
>> individual developers is just plain silly.
>
> Like it or not, that's how copyright law works in most country. When you
> publish a piece of code, you own it, unless you explicitly disclaim
> copyright, and then only in certain jurisdictions.

All legalese aside, that's the problem though isn't it?  The "pieces of
code" are being defined as (new?) files not commits and commits are
surely the unit of work.

When is a contributor supposed to be added to the list for a given file?
What defines a significant enough contribution?  It's all unnecessarily
messy.

Using yourself as an example, you're listed for 4 files, other files
you're mostly responsible for have no header, and the rest list Martin.
I'm personally indifferent, at best, and have historically simply copied
headers across and 'assigned' copyright to Martin - not that that
probably bears any scrutiny.  Most of the files should, by any measure,
list at least a few contributors.

In my experience these headers almost never reflect reality anyway.  Is
there no satisfactory way to simply point at the AUTHORS file?  I assume
no one can be bothered with a separate entity.

Forgive my disdain, son of a lawyer and all that...

Doug

From dougkearns at gmail.com  Fri Oct  2 22:47:13 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 15:47:13 +1000
Subject: [Vimperator] license header
In-Reply-To: <4AC6815B.4050604@vimperator.org>
References: <4AC4A1A4.3030208@vimperator.org> <4AC6815B.4050604@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <644fc65e0910022247h9114d59v1ea12609f5c10261@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 8:40 AM, Martin Stubenschrott
<stubenschrott at vimperator.org> wrote:
<snip>
> 4.) I used 2006-2009 style like notation, as the lines
> ? ?would become REALLY long in a few years if I listed
> ? ?every year specially. The first year should note
> ? ?when the file was first created though.

Didn't Ted claim that year ranges were pointless?  If so, it's not
about what looks pretty but what's meaningful. ;-)

Doug

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sat Oct  3 00:38:53 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 09:38:53 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] license header
In-Reply-To: <644fc65e0910022247h9114d59v1ea12609f5c10261@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AC4A1A4.3030208@vimperator.org> <4AC6815B.4050604@vimperator.org>
	<644fc65e0910022247h9114d59v1ea12609f5c10261@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AC6FF8D.70209@vimperator.org>

On 10/03/2009 07:47 AM, Doug Kearns wrote:

> Didn't Ted claim that year ranges were pointless?  If so, it's not
> about what looks pretty but what's meaningful. ;-)


He pointed out, that just the last year is really relevant,
but the others "don't hurt".

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sat Oct  3 00:44:34 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 09:44:34 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Building documentation (was Re:  license header)
In-Reply-To: <644fc65e0910022136g5c3dddadxc87a9d7d80647cad@mail.gmail.com>
References: <644fc65e0910022136g5c3dddadxc87a9d7d80647cad@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AC700E2.4010606@vimperator.org>

On 10/03/2009 06:36 AM, Doug Kearns wrote:

> It builds from a clean checkout with Asciidoc 8.4.5 (8.4 is a
> requirement) for me.  As your efforts are usually reasonable I can't
> hazard a guess as to the problem.  Any ideas? Asciidoc hating aside...


For me it's just laziness, as there is no asciidoc 8.4 in Jaunty,
but in Karmic which will be released in 3 weeks there is.
So in future, I should be able to build the xpis for public release
again myself again.

From dougkearns at gmail.com  Sat Oct  3 01:34:15 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 18:34:15 +1000
Subject: [Vimperator] Building documentation (was Re: license header)
In-Reply-To: <4AC700E2.4010606@vimperator.org>
References: <644fc65e0910022136g5c3dddadxc87a9d7d80647cad@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4AC700E2.4010606@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <644fc65e0910030134w2dc45b54s689fecae7452c47a@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Martin Stubenschrott
<stubenschrott at vimperator.org> wrote:
> On 10/03/2009 06:36 AM, Doug Kearns wrote:
>
>> It builds from a clean checkout with Asciidoc 8.4.5 (8.4 is a
>> requirement) for me. ?As your efforts are usually reasonable I can't
>> hazard a guess as to the problem. ?Any ideas? Asciidoc hating aside...
>
> For me it's just laziness, as there is no asciidoc 8.4 in Jaunty,
> but in Karmic which will be released in 3 weeks there is.
> So in future, I should be able to build the xpis for public release
> again myself again.

I think this may take laziness to previously unscaled heights.

Doug

From nemolivier at gmail.com  Sat Oct  3 03:27:36 2009
From: nemolivier at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Olivier_Gu=E9ry?=)
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 12:27:36 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] moving config to standard XDG
Message-ID: <5c2c86e70910030327u1f4f83d3h5b50cb95918f914e@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

While switching to google-code (and v 2.2) can?t you think about using
the freedesktop standard XDG for config files (id est on standard
config using the usual .config/{vimperator, liberator}) as most
project do??

Info here?:
http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/latest/
http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/xdg-user-dirs

Regards,
Olivier.

PS?:?realy like vim do the same thing.
-- 
[Message tap? sur un clavier B?po : http://www.bepo.fr ]
http://soubresauts.net

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sat Oct  3 03:47:33 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 12:47:33 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] moving config to standard XDG
In-Reply-To: <5c2c86e70910030327u1f4f83d3h5b50cb95918f914e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5c2c86e70910030327u1f4f83d3h5b50cb95918f914e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AC72BC5.30106@vimperator.org>

On 10/03/2009 12:27 PM, Olivier Gu?ry wrote:

> While switching to google-code (and v 2.2) can?t you think about using
> the freedesktop standard XDG for config files (id est on standard
> config using the usual .config/{vimperator, liberator}) as most
> project do ?


We thought about it, and actually all devs agree, it's a good thing.
It's however, not that easy to do it right (respecting the environment
variables, and to make it really platform specific on windows and
mac as well (they need other special directories), etc.).
I am not saying, it's difficult, but just work. If you can write a patch
for it, chances for the change will be significantly higher though :)

And 2.2 being out nearly of the door, it's unlikely we'll do it
now, but at least for Vimperator 3, I think it would be a good idea.

> PS : realy like vim do the same thing.


Well, /me too (and also mplayer and other "older" apps), but I
think that something "modern" like XDG will never come to those
apps :(

From gary.katsevman at gmail.com  Sat Oct  3 06:23:26 2009
From: gary.katsevman at gmail.com (Gary Katsevman)
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 09:23:26 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] license header
In-Reply-To: <4AC6FF8D.70209@vimperator.org>
References: <4AC4A1A4.3030208@vimperator.org>
	<4AC6815B.4050604@vimperator.org> 
	<644fc65e0910022247h9114d59v1ea12609f5c10261@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4AC6FF8D.70209@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <97265dfa0910030623y704da6c6p87c3188da3940b59@mail.gmail.com>

so, perhaps do a date range for the previous years and have the
current year seperatly? 2006-2008 2009?
------------------------
Gary Katsevman
Computer Science Undergraduate
Northeastern University
gkatsev at ccs.neu.edu
gkatsev.com



On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 03:38, Martin Stubenschrott
<stubenschrott at vimperator.org> wrote:
> On 10/03/2009 07:47 AM, Doug Kearns wrote:
>
>> Didn't Ted claim that year ranges were pointless? ?If so, it's not
>> about what looks pretty but what's meaningful. ;-)
>
>
> He pointed out, that just the last year is really relevant,
> but the others "don't hurt".
> _______________________________________________
> Vimperator mailing list
> Vimperator at mozdev.org
> https://www.mozdev.org/mailman/listinfo/vimperator
>

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sat Oct  3 12:24:56 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 21:24:56 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <4AC7A508.8060400@vimperator.org>

Google sites is progressing quite well, but I want your input.

Look at http://test.vimperator.org/vimperator - and click through
all 4 sub pages:

1.) Bugs:
While I usually do not like iframes, it does make sense to include the
list of current project-specific bugs inline. It actually looks better
than I initially though, although when google code finally will release
an API, we might redo a new google gadget, which just lists the bugs
without the additional "vimperator-labs" header.
NOTE: I know that the link is to the current wiki page currently, that's
just because there are no bugs yet, and i wanted some entries to show,
so it resembles more the final design.

Usually I don't like links automatically opening new tabs. But should the
"Report new bug" link in the "Bugs" section do that (and actually all links
which do not retain the left navigation menu?)

2.) Scripts:
While similar, I do think that having 2 iframes here is probably an overkill,
especially since we have few color schemes anyway. The idea is to just
have one iframe and list both plugins as well as colorschemes in one iframe.
I just let the 2-iframe solution on the page for now for people to comment on.

3.) Screenshots:
Well, needs some new and sexy screenshots, but otherwise will probably
just stay as it is. *Maybe* we should do 3-4 thumbnails on that page which
will expand when clicked on.

4.) Wiki:
Right now it links directly to the vimp-labs GC page, in order to see how
that would work without an iframe. It might be a good idea to make it just
look like the "Bugs" section, so that the left navigation menu will always
be preserved.

5.) Developer Info
Is that the best name for this section (which needs updating),
or do you have better ideas?

--
Martin

PS: Please also have a quick look through the homepage. Are there any serious
things which I need to change? Because if not, I think I'll clone the vimperator
(sub-)pages to muttator/xulmus, and then we could make the trac bug tracker
read only, and I'll send Kris a db dump and hope he finds a simple way to import
the issues.

From dougkearns at gmail.com  Sat Oct  3 14:25:30 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 08:25:30 +1100
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <4AC7A508.8060400@vimperator.org>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org> <4AC7A508.8060400@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <644fc65e0910031425o46c6d5a7q72ad62d82e80ddb6@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 6:24 AM, Martin Stubenschrott
<stubenschrott at vimperator.org> wrote:
> Google sites is progressing quite well, but I want your input.

I was taught that if you can't say something nice...

Doug

From zhang.zhengquan at gmail.com  Sat Oct  3 15:32:04 2009
From: zhang.zhengquan at gmail.com (Zhengquan Zhang)
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 17:32:04 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] open tab in the next tab
Message-ID: <128a87f00910031532n250dc345i19b797270d9030c3@mail.gmail.com>

Hello vimperator users,
I would like to know if I can open the link in the next tab rather
than in the last tab. I searched and found a plugin called 'next tab';
I don't want to add additional plugin if vimperator can internally do it.

Thanks a lot,

-- 
Zhengquan

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sat Oct  3 15:34:19 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 00:34:19 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] open tab in the next tab
In-Reply-To: <128a87f00910031532n250dc345i19b797270d9030c3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <128a87f00910031532n250dc345i19b797270d9030c3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AC7D16B.1080606@vimperator.org>

On 10/04/2009 12:32 AM, Zhengquan Zhang wrote:

> Hello vimperator users,
> I would like to know if I can open the link in the next tab rather
> than in the last tab. I searched and found a plugin called 'next tab';
> I don't want to add additional plugin if vimperator can internally do it.
> 
> Thanks a lot,


Firefox 3.6 includes this functionality by default, but I already find
it highly annoying (although I loved the idea, when i first saw it
at google chrome).

From zhang.zhengquan at gmail.com  Sat Oct  3 15:40:23 2009
From: zhang.zhengquan at gmail.com (Zhengquan Zhang)
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 17:40:23 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] open tab in the next tab
In-Reply-To: <4AC7D16B.1080606@vimperator.org>
References: <128a87f00910031532n250dc345i19b797270d9030c3@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4AC7D16B.1080606@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <128a87f00910031540q1cc6f287k8ae95893b8aac071@mail.gmail.com>

2009/10/3 Martin Stubenschrott <stubenschrott at vimperator.org>:
> On 10/04/2009 12:32 AM, Zhengquan Zhang wrote:
>
>> Hello vimperator users,
>> I would like to know if I can open the link in the next tab rather
>> than in the last tab. I searched and found a plugin called 'next tab';
>> I don't want to add additional plugin if vimperator can internally do it.
>>
>> Thanks a lot,
>
>
> Firefox 3.6 includes this functionality by default, but I already find
> it highly annoying (although I loved the idea, when i first saw it
> at google chrome).

Often I like to have tabs with similar contents together(often because
I opened links on one page); But if the new tabs get opened in the
last tab. I wonder if experienced vimperator users can share some idea
on how to have tabs with similar contents together. I was able to
customize firefox to open link in the next tab via tab mix plus. But
Now I have abandoned the plugin since it is not very compatible with
vimperator when I last tried.

Thanks for any ideas.

> _______________________________________________
> Vimperator mailing list
> Vimperator at mozdev.org
> https://www.mozdev.org/mailman/listinfo/vimperator
>



-- 
Zhengquan

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sat Oct  3 15:46:32 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 00:46:32 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] open tab in the next tab
In-Reply-To: <128a87f00910031540q1cc6f287k8ae95893b8aac071@mail.gmail.com>
References: <128a87f00910031532n250dc345i19b797270d9030c3@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AC7D16B.1080606@vimperator.org>
	<128a87f00910031540q1cc6f287k8ae95893b8aac071@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AC7D448.9020001@vimperator.org>

On 10/04/2009 12:40 AM, Zhengquan Zhang wrote:

> Often I like to have tabs with similar contents together(often because
> I opened links on one page); But if the new tabs get opened in the
> last tab. I wonder if experienced vimperator users can share some idea
> on how to have tabs with similar contents together.



Maybe we have a completely different work style, but my first 10-15 tabs
just consist of my most often viewed urls. E.g. Facebook: If I open a link
from there, opening that next to the facebook tab "ruins" the layout. If
all those links open to the end, I can still have my imaginary line, where
all tabs to the left of tab xyz should not be deleted, and all tabs right
to them are just temporary tabs and should be read and later closed.

I know that might not help you, but this observation might also fit others
usage pattern and why i personally think, opening to the far right is
superior.

> I was able to
> customize firefox to open link in the next tab via tab mix plus. But
> Now I have abandoned the plugin since it is not very compatible with
> vimperator when I last tried.

That should be fixed now, unless you use vimperator's tab numbering
feature (default off anyway).

From zhang.zhengquan at gmail.com  Sat Oct  3 15:58:22 2009
From: zhang.zhengquan at gmail.com (Zhengquan Zhang)
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 17:58:22 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] open tab in the next tab
In-Reply-To: <4AC7D448.9020001@vimperator.org>
References: <128a87f00910031532n250dc345i19b797270d9030c3@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4AC7D16B.1080606@vimperator.org>
	<128a87f00910031540q1cc6f287k8ae95893b8aac071@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4AC7D448.9020001@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <128a87f00910031558s107ca728ue0f724c902bc7115@mail.gmail.com>

2009/10/3 Martin Stubenschrott <stubenschrott at vimperator.org>:
> On 10/04/2009 12:40 AM, Zhengquan Zhang wrote:
>
>> Often I like to have tabs with similar contents together(often because
>> I opened links on one page); But if the new tabs get opened in the
>> last tab. I wonder if experienced vimperator users can share some idea
>> on how to have tabs with similar contents together.
>
>
>
> Maybe we have a completely different work style, but my first 10-15 tabs

Yes indeed. I was thinking what I was doing is not on the efficient side.

> just consist of my most often viewed urls. E.g. Facebook: If I open a link
> from there, opening that next to the facebook tab "ruins" the layout. If
> all those links open to the end, I can still have my imaginary line, where
> all tabs to the left of tab xyz should not be deleted, and all tabs right
> to them are just temporary tabs and should be read and later closed.

What you are doing looks great to me. I use wikipedia a lot and maybe
on one page I need to open multiple links and once they go to the far
right, practically I don't know how to get there. But if they go next
tab I can simply read it and close it and return to where I was
reading.

>
> I know that might not help you, but this observation might also fit others
> usage pattern and why i personally think, opening to the far right is
> superior.

It helps. But Can you suggest some ways to go to the far right tab I
just opened? and If I finish reading the tab, can I go back to the
original tab easily?

>
>> I was able to
>> customize firefox to open link in the next tab via tab mix plus. But
>> Now I have abandoned the plugin since it is not very compatible with
>> vimperator when I last tried.
>
> That should be fixed now, unless you use vimperator's tab numbering
> feature (default off anyway).

Yes I use the numbering because I like to switch to tab fast.

Thanks a lot,

-- 
Zhengquan

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sat Oct  3 16:04:06 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 01:04:06 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] open tab in the next tab
In-Reply-To: <128a87f00910031558s107ca728ue0f724c902bc7115@mail.gmail.com>
References: <128a87f00910031532n250dc345i19b797270d9030c3@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AC7D16B.1080606@vimperator.org>	<128a87f00910031540q1cc6f287k8ae95893b8aac071@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AC7D448.9020001@vimperator.org>
	<128a87f00910031558s107ca728ue0f724c902bc7115@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AC7D866.7050807@vimperator.org>

On 10/04/2009 12:58 AM, Zhengquan Zhang wrote:

>> Maybe we have a completely different work style, but my first 10-15 tabs
> 
> Yes indeed. I was thinking what I was doing is not on the efficient side.

I wouldn't say that, just because it's "different" doesn't mean, yours
isn't efficient as well.

> It helps. But Can you suggest some ways to go to the far right tab I
> just opened? and If I finish reading the tab, can I go back to the
> original tab easily?


g$ goes to the last tab. Ctrl-^ will go back to the one opened. BUT if
you delete the last one, i think we currently mess up the ctrl-^ stack.

> Yes I use the numbering because I like to switch to tab fast.

You might also try the "b" mapping:

b gmail<enter> will go to the tab with "gmail" in the title. Of course
it might not work so good if you have lots of similar tabs open.

From nemolivier at gmail.com  Sat Oct  3 16:48:33 2009
From: nemolivier at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Olivier_Gu=E9ry?=)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 01:48:33 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] moving config to standard XDG
In-Reply-To: <4AC72BC5.30106@vimperator.org>
References: <5c2c86e70910030327u1f4f83d3h5b50cb95918f914e@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AC72BC5.30106@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <5c2c86e70910031648w4d17e442u2ee64cd3cbb6022@mail.gmail.com>

2009/10/3 Martin Stubenschrott <stubenschrott at vimperator.org>:
> On 10/03/2009 12:27 PM, Olivier Gu?ry wrote:
>
>> While switching to google-code (and v 2.2) can?t you think about using
>> the freedesktop standard XDG for config files (id est on standard
>> config using the usual .config/{vimperator, liberator}) as most
>> project do ?
>
>
> We thought about it, and actually all devs agree, it's a good thing.
> It's however, not that easy to do it right (respecting the environment
> variables, and to make it really platform specific on windows and
> mac as well (they need other special directories), etc.).
> I am not saying, it's difficult, but just work.

> If you can write a patch
> for it, chances for the change will be significantly higher though :)

Since I?m only a physiotherapist I only can promisse a free massage
(here, in Paris, France) as a bounty to the one who will wrote the
patch ;o)

> And 2.2 being out nearly of the door, it's unlikely we'll do it
> now, but at least for Vimperator 3, I think it would be a good idea.
>
>> PS : realy like vim do the same thing.
>
>
> Well, /me too (and also mplayer and other "older" apps), but I
> think that something "modern" like XDG will never come to those
> apps :(

Yes, please, vim and mplayer?! (on the vim maling list it was proposed
years ago and nothing since it).

Cheers,
Olivier.

-- 
[Message tap? sur un clavier B?po : http://www.bepo.fr ]
http://soubresauts.net

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sat Oct  3 20:05:20 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 23:05:20 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <4AC7A508.8060400@vimperator.org>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org> <4AC7A508.8060400@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091004030520.GA31402@jg>

On Sat, Oct 03, 2009 at 09:24:56PM +0200, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>Usually I don't like links automatically opening new tabs. But should the
>"Report new bug" link in the "Bugs" section do that (and actually all links
>which do not retain the left navigation menu?)

No. For such a basic and necessary function of the site, no, 
that would make people (like me) upset. Alternatively, you might 
just link to another iframe. That would be fine (Google is rife 
with iframes, if you haven't noticed).

>2.) Scripts:
>While similar, I do think that having 2 iframes here is probably an overkill,
>especially since we have few color schemes anyway. The idea is to just
>have one iframe and list both plugins as well as colorschemes in one iframe.
>I just let the 2-iframe solution on the page for now for people to comment on.

Two iframes, overkill, yes. Two pages would be better. A gadget 
would be better still (except that gadgets don't work from 
elinks).

>3.) Screenshots:
>Well, needs some new and sexy screenshots, but otherwise will probably
>just stay as it is. *Maybe* we should do 3-4 thumbnails on that page which
>will expand when clicked on.

We have newer screenshots than *that*, at least. Even the 
*Wikipedia* page has newer screenshots than that.

>4.) Wiki:
>Right now it links directly to the vimp-labs GC page, in order to see how
>that would work without an iframe. It might be a good idea to make it just
>look like the "Bugs" section, so that the left navigation menu will always
>be preserved.

The GC wiki page would be alright if you added a navigation 
sidebar to it. The only problem is that sidebar links shouldn't 
really link to pages without the sidebar. It needs an "External 
link" icon if it's to stay that way.

>5.) Developer Info
>Is that the best name for this section (which needs updating),
>or do you have better ideas?

The name works, I suppose, but it's not all applicable only to 
devs. I'd prefer something like "Contributing", and then only 
listing info on submitting patches, earning commit access, code 
style, etc. The GC page explains the checkout procedure.

-- 
Kris Maglione

FAITH, n.  Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks
without knowledge, of things without parallel.
	--Ambrose Bierce


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sat Oct  3 20:06:14 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 23:06:14 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <644fc65e0910031425o46c6d5a7q72ad62d82e80ddb6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org> <4AC7A508.8060400@vimperator.org>
	<644fc65e0910031425o46c6d5a7q72ad62d82e80ddb6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091004030614.GB31402@jg>

On Sun, Oct 04, 2009 at 08:25:30AM +1100, Doug Kearns wrote:
>On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 6:24 AM, Martin Stubenschrott
><stubenschrott at vimperator.org> wrote:
>> Google sites is progressing quite well, but I want your input.
>
>I was taught that if you can't say something nice...

Dissent is my job, not yours. Stay off my turf.

-- 
Kris Maglione

Sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sat Oct  3 20:10:34 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 23:10:34 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] open tab in the next tab
In-Reply-To: <4AC7D16B.1080606@vimperator.org>
References: <128a87f00910031532n250dc345i19b797270d9030c3@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AC7D16B.1080606@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091004031034.GC31402@jg>

On Sun, Oct 04, 2009 at 12:34:19AM +0200, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>Firefox 3.6 includes this functionality by default, but I already find
>it highly annoying (although I loved the idea, when i first saw it
>at google chrome).

Are you serious? Every time I use a stock version of Firefox, 
and a new tab opens 10 tabs to the right of the current one, I 
want to kick some Mozilla dev. What kind of sense is that?

P.S. Just about every tab tweaking extension includes this 
feature. Try Tab Control or Tab Kit (not Tab Mix+, which isn't 
compatible with Vimperator).

-- 
Kris Maglione

The key to performance is elegance, not battalions of special cases.
	--Jon Bentley and Doug McIlroy


From dougkearns at gmail.com  Sat Oct  3 23:01:41 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 17:01:41 +1100
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <4AC7A508.8060400@vimperator.org>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org> <4AC7A508.8060400@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <644fc65e0910032301v299aa4fbkcdafed8baf410633@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 6:24 AM, Martin Stubenschrott
<stubenschrott at vimperator.org> wrote:
> Google sites is progressing quite well, but I want your input.

Well I'm still pre-coffee but I'm really struggling to see the point of
this separate website.  It's confusing to me and I'm supposed to have a
vague idea what's going on.

The introductory text could easily be included in the GC project summary
page.  The Bugs, Scripts and Wikis pages do little other than
confusingly frame or redirect to the relevant GC pages and the Blog page
could really be scrapped - has anyone ever posted anything of note to
it?  The Screenshots and Developer Info pages could be moved to the wiki
too.

If this was being done with a view to presenting a beautiful
user-orientated website with lots of features not available via the GC
page then fair enough.  However, to be kind it's U-G-L-Y and it ain't
got no alibi (with apologies to Fishbone).

I'm not suggesting GC is ideal but I'd think the website had to be much,
much, better to even justify its existence.

Doug

From fb at intoxicatedmind.net  Sat Oct  3 23:09:00 2009
From: fb at intoxicatedmind.net (Frank Blendinger)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 08:09:00 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] open tab in the next tab
In-Reply-To: <20091004031034.GC31402@jg>
References: <128a87f00910031532n250dc345i19b797270d9030c3@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AC7D16B.1080606@vimperator.org> <20091004031034.GC31402@jg>
Message-ID: <20091004060900.GO24441@intoxicatedmind.net>

Hi.

On Sat 2009-10-03 23:10, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com>
proclaimed:
> On Sun, Oct 04, 2009 at 12:34:19AM +0200, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>> Firefox 3.6 includes this functionality by default, but I already find
>> it highly annoying (although I loved the idea, when i first saw it
>> at google chrome).
>
> Are you serious? Every time I use a stock version of Firefox, and a new 
> tab opens 10 tabs to the right of the current one, I want to kick some 
> Mozilla dev. What kind of sense is that?

I completely agree. Having the new tab close to the current one is 95%
of the time the thing I want. For the other 5% I use this mapping to
move the new tab to the end:

map <Silent> <C-$>      :tabmove<CR>


> P.S. Just about every tab tweaking extension includes this feature. Try 
> Tab Control or Tab Kit (not Tab Mix+, which isn't compatible with 
> Vimperator).

There is also "Tabs Open Relative", which does only what its name
suggests.


Greetings,
Frank

-- 
Frank Blendinger | fb(at)intoxicatedmind.net | GPG: 0x0BF2FE7A
Fingerprint: BB64 F2B8 DFD8 BF90 0F2E 892B 72CF 7A41 0BF2 FE7A
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From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sun Oct  4 03:34:43 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 12:34:43 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] open tab in the next tab
In-Reply-To: <20091004031034.GC31402@jg>
References: <128a87f00910031532n250dc345i19b797270d9030c3@mail.gmail.com>	<4AC7D16B.1080606@vimperator.org>
	<20091004031034.GC31402@jg>
Message-ID: <4AC87A43.9010500@vimperator.org>

On 10/04/2009 05:10 AM, Kris Maglione wrote:

> Are you serious? Every time I use a stock version of Firefox, 
> and a new tab opens 10 tabs to the right of the current one, I 
> want to kick some Mozilla dev. What kind of sense is that?


I am dead serious. But as I said, I use tabs as kind of a combination
of bookmarks and "window" management.

From dougkearns at gmail.com  Sun Oct  4 04:10:45 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 22:10:45 +1100
Subject: [Vimperator] open tab in the next tab
In-Reply-To: <4AC87A43.9010500@vimperator.org>
References: <128a87f00910031532n250dc345i19b797270d9030c3@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4AC7D16B.1080606@vimperator.org> <20091004031034.GC31402@jg> 
	<4AC87A43.9010500@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <644fc65e0910040410w32d2b579ha5016a4a6e824d57@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 9:34 PM, Martin Stubenschrott
<stubenschrott at vimperator.org> wrote:
> On 10/04/2009 05:10 AM, Kris Maglione wrote:
>
>> Are you serious? Every time I use a stock version of Firefox,
>> and a new tab opens 10 tabs to the right of the current one, I
>> want to kick some Mozilla dev. What kind of sense is that?
>
>
> I am dead serious. But as I said, I use tabs as kind of a combination
> of bookmarks and "window" management.

Have you tried Prism?

Doug

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sun Oct  4 04:11:27 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 13:11:27 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <644fc65e0910032301v299aa4fbkcdafed8baf410633@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org> <4AC7A508.8060400@vimperator.org>
	<644fc65e0910032301v299aa4fbkcdafed8baf410633@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AC882DF.2020906@vimperator.org>

On 10/04/2009 08:01 AM, Doug Kearns wrote:

> Well I'm still pre-coffee but I'm really struggling to see the point of
> this separate website.


Not the web site should be seperate, the GC pages should be. And *one* of
the main reasons is, that "normal" users should always be able to do
90% of their vimperator related surfing with showing vimperator.org as
the domain.

> The introductory text could easily be included in the GC project summary
> page.


For all projects? I know that right now the introductory text is quite similar
for vimperator, muttator and xulmus, but that might change and could focus
more on the individual features. But apart from that, we could not list
the different "Features" of all apps on the GC project summary page.

> The Bugs, Scripts and Wikis pages do little other than
> confusingly frame or redirect to the relevant GC pages


why confusingly? Sorry, but just take the GC page alone. Would it be clear
that for finding plugins, you have to go to "Issues" (not plugins or scripts),
and then filter manually for Type:Plugin? 

> and the Blog page
> could really be scrapped - has anyone ever posted anything of note to
> it?


We do post new releases there, including the relevant ChangeLog, so yes,
that is interesting to the end-user I guess. The new intro page
http://test.vimperator.org even lists the last 3 entries automatically,
making it much easier to see what's going on in vimperator land.

> The Screenshots and Developer Info pages could be moved to the wiki
> too.


Without some "clever" filtering on our side, if the user just clicks "wiki"
on the GC page, he will get 3 entries "screenshots", 3 entries "FAQ" etc.
(when we finally add more content to muttator/xulmus - BUT that's not the point,
they should and will be improved).

 
> If this was being done with a view to presenting a beautiful
> user-orientated website with lots of features not available via the GC
> page then fair enough.  However, to be kind it's U-G-L-Y and it ain't
> got no alibi (with apologies to Fishbone).

As Kris said, with writing a google gadget (once GC offers an API, and they even
said that they are already working on that, so just a matter of time), one
could do a very nicely integrated bug and wiki tracker directly in our
homepage. With the current iframe idea, one would have the (a little ugly, i agree)
double header, but it's not THAT ugly.

> I'm not suggesting GC is ideal but I'd think the website had to be much,

> much, better to even justify its existence.


I am not discussing that point. IF there was just vimperator (and not muttator,
xulmus, ...) we might argue, but the single GC as we settled now is really not
meant to present multiple projects nicely.

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sun Oct  4 04:20:18 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 13:20:18 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] open tab in the next tab
In-Reply-To: <644fc65e0910040410w32d2b579ha5016a4a6e824d57@mail.gmail.com>
References: <128a87f00910031532n250dc345i19b797270d9030c3@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AC7D16B.1080606@vimperator.org> <20091004031034.GC31402@jg>
	<4AC87A43.9010500@vimperator.org>
	<644fc65e0910040410w32d2b579ha5016a4a6e824d57@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AC884F2.1060200@vimperator.org>

On 10/04/2009 01:10 PM, Doug Kearns wrote:

> Have you tried Prism?


No and while the idea is nice, I think tabs in a browser
just resembling the "max" mode of many window managers
is nice as well. Also Prism has 2 more disadvantages:

a) could not b face<enter> anymore to go to facebook
   (ok one could hack something into a window manager,
   but probably not with "b" but winkey+b or something
   like that)

b) It's not just web apps which i keep open all the time
   but also sites like:
   http://code.google.com/p/vimperator-labs/source/list
   Does that make a good top level window? I doubt it

Anyway, I should probably just look for a better RSS reader,
which would do away with probably half of my always-open-windows.
Does anybody know a good one? I use thunderbird muttator for
it, but unfortunately it has an old-school "one entry is one
message" style display which sucks if you want to read lots
of those messages.

Actually I'd like something to resemble the current "planet"
like display of rss feeds. E.g. http://planet.mozilla.org/
which is one of those "always open tabs" for me.

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sun Oct  4 04:41:07 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 13:41:07 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] open tab in the next tab
In-Reply-To: <4AC884F2.1060200@vimperator.org>
References: <128a87f00910031532n250dc345i19b797270d9030c3@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AC7D16B.1080606@vimperator.org> <20091004031034.GC31402@jg>
	<4AC87A43.9010500@vimperator.org>
	<644fc65e0910040410w32d2b579ha5016a4a6e824d57@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AC884F2.1060200@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <4AC889D3.2090701@vimperator.org>

On 10/04/2009 01:20 PM, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:

> Anyway, I should probably just look for a better RSS reader,
> which would do away with probably half of my always-open-windows.
> Does anybody know a good one? 


To answer that myself: I just tried Google reader under Chromium,
and there it rocks (even with j/k key bindings for next/prev message).

Under Firefox 3.6 it is just dog slow (also others report that), maybe
I shall just use that, so i have the same feeds at work and at home.

But still. Somebody has another suggestion?

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sun Oct  4 08:08:15 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 11:08:15 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <4AC882DF.2020906@vimperator.org>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org> <4AC7A508.8060400@vimperator.org>
	<644fc65e0910032301v299aa4fbkcdafed8baf410633@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AC882DF.2020906@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091004150815.GD31402@jg>

On Sun, Oct 04, 2009 at 01:11:27PM +0200, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>> The introductory text could easily be included in the GC project summary
>> page.
>
>For all projects? I know that right now the introductory text is quite similar
>for vimperator, muttator and xulmus, but that might change and could focus
>more on the individual features. But apart from that, we could not list
>the different "Features" of all apps on the GC project summary page.

Wiki.

>> The Bugs, Scripts and Wikis pages do little other than
>> confusingly frame or redirect to the relevant GC pages
>
>why confusingly? Sorry, but just take the GC page alone. Would it be clear
>that for finding plugins, you have to go to "Issues" (not plugins or scripts),
>and then filter manually for Type:Plugin? 

It is a bit confusing, especially when they "break out" of the 
navigation pane. The frames aren't that confusing, just a bit 
odd.

>> and the Blog page
>> could really be scrapped - has anyone ever posted anything of note to
>> it?

I don't think it's right to call it a blog. News, perhaps.

>Without some "clever" filtering on our side, if the user just clicks "wiki"
>on the GC page, he will get 3 entries "screenshots", 3 entries "FAQ" etc.
>(when we finally add more content to muttator/xulmus - BUT that's not the point,
>they should and will be improved).

No clever necessary. You can choose the initial page for the 
wiki tab. Simple.

Which brings me to a point: why have you hidden the tabs in 
favor of links on the front page? Part of the appeal of Google 
Code is that it has a simple, consistent interface across all 
projects. Not only is it fairly well designed, but it makes 
navigation to other parts of the project easy from wherever you 
are, and it gives you an indication of which part of the project 
you're on. Now, the links are in what is, ostesnsibly, the 
external links section. I really can't think of a good reason 
for this. It's annoying.

P.S. The links section needs a link to the amo page.

>> If this was being done with a view to presenting a beautiful
>> user-orientated website with lots of features not available via the GC
>> page then fair enough.  However, to be kind it's U-G-L-Y and it ain't
>> got no alibi (with apologies to Fishbone).
>
>As Kris said, with writing a google gadget (once GC offers an API, and they even
>said that they are already working on that, so just a matter of time), one
>could do a very nicely integrated bug and wiki tracker directly in our
>homepage. With the current iframe idea, one would have the (a little ugly, i agree)
>double header, but it's not THAT ugly.

Fuck the API. Just XHR the issues list.

>> I'm not suggesting GC is ideal but I'd think the website had to be much,
>
>> much, better to even justify its existence.
>
>I am not discussing that point. IF there was just vimperator (and not muttator,
>xulmus, ...) we might argue, but the single GC as we settled now is really not
>meant to present multiple projects nicely.

Wiki.

-- 
Kris Maglione

A program is portable to the extent that it can be easily moved to a
new computing environment with much less effort than would be required
to write it afresh.
	--W. Stan Brown


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sun Oct  4 08:13:04 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 11:13:04 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] open tab in the next tab
In-Reply-To: <4AC884F2.1060200@vimperator.org>
References: <128a87f00910031532n250dc345i19b797270d9030c3@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AC7D16B.1080606@vimperator.org> <20091004031034.GC31402@jg>
	<4AC87A43.9010500@vimperator.org>
	<644fc65e0910040410w32d2b579ha5016a4a6e824d57@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AC884F2.1060200@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091004151304.GE31402@jg>

On Sun, Oct 04, 2009 at 01:20:18PM +0200, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>Anyway, I should probably just look for a better RSS reader,
>which would do away with probably half of my always-open-windows.
>Does anybody know a good one? I use thunderbird muttator for
>it, but unfortunately it has an old-school "one entry is one
>message" style display which sucks if you want to read lots
>of those messages.

That's the way to go really. Nice and organized, unmessy. 
Goodness all around. At any rate, there's always Google reader 
and FF's builtin support (but the latter doesn't coalesce feeds, 
obviously, so is of minimal benefit).

I don't keep those things open in frames. It's just as easy to 
open a new tab when I need them.

-- 
Kris Maglione

Oh, come *on*.  Revelation was a mushroom dream that belonged in the
Apocrypha.  The New Testament is basically about what happened when
God got religion.
	--Terry Pratchett, alt.fan.pratchett


From dougkearns at gmail.com  Sun Oct  4 08:14:26 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 02:14:26 +1100
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <4AC882DF.2020906@vimperator.org>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org>
	<4AC7A508.8060400@vimperator.org> 
	<644fc65e0910032301v299aa4fbkcdafed8baf410633@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4AC882DF.2020906@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <644fc65e0910040814m1bad6354k6b3654523a0ecbb8@mail.gmail.com>

> On 10/04/2009 08:01 AM, Doug Kearns wrote:
>
>> Well I'm still pre-coffee but I'm really struggling to see the point of
>> this separate website.
>
> Not the web site should be seperate, the GC pages should be. And *one* of
> the main reasons is, that "normal" users should always be able to do
> 90% of their vimperator related surfing with showing vimperator.org as
> the domain.

Why on earth is that important, let alone one the main reasons?  So
vanity is driving the web split?  I fail to see why "seeing"
http://code.google.com/p/vimperator-labs/ is undesirable.

To be frank I sometimes think the project has ideas above its station -
it's just a browser add-on.  The whole premise that people are spending
vast amounts of time cruising the Vimperator website(s) (while admiring
the URL) is a nonsense.  I'd wager a significant bet that most "normal"
users don't spend any time on the website and those that do are more
than capable of driving GC.

In my experience, the "normal" user installs from AMO and waits to
prompted for an update - that's it.  Of the dozen or so Vimperator users
I've come across "in the wild" (IT workers all) not a single one even
used plugins and their RC file usage didn't extend past the occasional
:mkv.

>> The introductory text could easily be included in the GC project summary
>> page.
>
> For all projects? I know that right now the introductory text is quite similar
> for vimperator, muttator and xulmus, but that might change and could focus
> more on the individual features. But apart from that, we could not list
> the different "Features" of all apps on the GC project summary page.

So use the wiki to elaborate if it's required.  Besides, the features
are listed again on AMO and ASC and I think the projects are much
better presented there for the 'normal' user than they've ever been on
our development sites anyway.  Hmmm, there seems to be someone's ugly
mug on the AMO site now though.  For the love of god, why? :(

>> The Bugs, Scripts and Wikis pages do little other than
>> confusingly frame or redirect to the relevant GC pages
>
> why confusingly? Sorry, but just take the GC page alone. Would it be clear
> that for finding plugins, you have to go to "Issues" (not plugins or scripts),
> and then filter manually for Type:Plugin?

Sure, just provide a link to the filtered view.  What's so hard about
that?  I don't see why framing the whole GC tracker page on another
site, pages deep, is so much clearer than providing a direct link to it.
Almost all of the plugins and scripts are hosted outside the tracker
anyway, at the coderepos site.

>> and the Blog page
>> could really be scrapped - has anyone ever posted anything of note to
>> it?
>
> We do post new releases there, including the relevant ChangeLog, so yes,
> that is interesting to the end-user I guess. The new intro page
> http://test.vimperator.org even lists the last 3 entries automatically,
> making it much easier to see what's going on in vimperator land.

I really think anyone interested is either on the ML, IRC or following
via other means anyway but I might be wrong.

>> The Screenshots and Developer Info pages could be moved to the wiki
>> too.
>
> Without some "clever" filtering on our side, if the user just clicks "wiki"
> on the GC page, he will get 3 entries "screenshots", 3 entries "FAQ" etc.
> (when we finally add more content to muttator/xulmus - BUT that's not the point,
> they should and will be improved).

By whom and when?  In a year no one even bothered to sort out the last
wiki.  I fail to see why selecting "Vimperator FAQ" over "Muttator FAQ"
is beyond our user base if required.

>> If this was being done with a view to presenting a beautiful
>> user-orientated website with lots of features not available via the GC
>> page then fair enough. ?However, to be kind it's U-G-L-Y and it ain't
>> got no alibi (with apologies to Fishbone).
>
> As Kris said, with writing a google gadget (once GC offers an API, and they even
> said that they are already working on that, so just a matter of time), one
> could do a very nicely integrated bug and wiki tracker directly in our
> homepage.

What magic does this API offer that we don't already have access too?
Anyway I still think it's largely a waste of time.

> With the current iframe idea, one would have the (a little ugly, i agree)
> double header, but it's not THAT ugly.

True, it is missing a Geocities banner. :P

>> I'm not suggesting GC is ideal but I'd think the website had to be much,
>
>> much, better to even justify its existence.
>
> I am not discussing that point.

I'm glad you're open to differing opinion. ;-)

> IF there was just vimperator (and not muttator,
> xulmus, ...) we might argue, but the single GC as we settled now is really not
> meant to present multiple projects nicely.

I'm not opposed to a website I'm just opposed to having essentially two
of them.  If you're serious we should really do it properly and host a
decent, fully integrated, website with interesting content.

Doug

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sun Oct  4 08:20:52 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 11:20:52 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] open tab in the next tab
In-Reply-To: <644fc65e0910040410w32d2b579ha5016a4a6e824d57@mail.gmail.com>
References: <128a87f00910031532n250dc345i19b797270d9030c3@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AC7D16B.1080606@vimperator.org> <20091004031034.GC31402@jg>
	<4AC87A43.9010500@vimperator.org>
	<644fc65e0910040410w32d2b579ha5016a4a6e824d57@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091004152052.GF31402@jg>

On Sun, Oct 04, 2009 at 10:10:45PM +1100, Doug Kearns wrote:
>> I am dead serious. But as I said, I use tabs as kind of a combination
>> of bookmarks and "window" management.
>
>Have you tried Prism?

I'd rather just use surf or uzbl and ditch the whole gecko 
slowness, bloat, and single-huge-instanceness.

-- 
Kris Maglione

A program is portable to the extent that it can be easily moved to a
new computing environment with much less effort than would be required
to write it afresh.
	--W. Stan Brown


From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sun Oct  4 08:26:14 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 17:26:14 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] open tab in the next tab
In-Reply-To: <20091004151304.GE31402@jg>
References: <128a87f00910031532n250dc345i19b797270d9030c3@mail.gmail.com>	<4AC7D16B.1080606@vimperator.org>
	<20091004031034.GC31402@jg>	<4AC87A43.9010500@vimperator.org>	<644fc65e0910040410w32d2b579ha5016a4a6e824d57@mail.gmail.com>	<4AC884F2.1060200@vimperator.org>
	<20091004151304.GE31402@jg>
Message-ID: <4AC8BE96.3090300@vimperator.org>

On 10/04/2009 05:13 PM, Kris Maglione wrote:

> At any rate, there's always Google reader 


Jup, and actually it works quite well apart from a few
embedded videos not showing.

BUT with google reader being even one more app which
should be open constantly, the need to either use Prism
or to open links at the end becomes even more important.

E.g. let's say you have this tab arangment:

|GMail|Google reader|Facebook|<random tab 1>|...|

it is always clear for me, where i can find my "important"
tabs, but if GMail e.g. opened a few links between gmail
and google reader, and then i open a few google reader pages
the layout quickly ends up like this:

|GMail|random1|random2|Google reader|random3|random4|Facebook|<random tab 5>|...|

But yeah, Prism would probably solve that issue, but when web apps
become even more and more popuplar, i don't know if i like the "burdon"
of prismifying 10-15 web apps, just to have a window manager tab for them
instead of a browser tab.

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sun Oct  4 09:13:28 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 18:13:28 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <20091004150815.GD31402@jg>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org>
	<4AC7A508.8060400@vimperator.org>	<644fc65e0910032301v299aa4fbkcdafed8baf410633@mail.gmail.com>	<4AC882DF.2020906@vimperator.org>
	<20091004150815.GD31402@jg>
Message-ID: <4AC8C9A8.70003@vimperator.org>

On 10/04/2009 05:08 PM, Kris Maglione wrote:
> Wiki.

See comment at the end...
 
> I don't think it's right to call it a blog. News, perhaps.

I thought about that, although when calling it "News" I should
probably list it at the Top of the navigation menu, and I didn't
think it was that important. Therefore I called it "Blog" but I'll
just remove it altogether from the navigation pane, since the last 3
(adjustable) blog/news entries are always shown in "Home" anyway -
even with a link to all posts.
 
> No clever necessary. You can choose the initial page for the 
> wiki tab. Simple.

Well this would just change the workflow of selecting a specific
wiki page from:

Vimperator->Wiki->actual wiki page
to
Wiki->Vimperator->actual wiki page.

I prefer the first.

> Which brings me to a point: why have you hidden the tabs in 
> favor of links on the front page?

One reason is still that nobody (not even devs) should need
to navigate within the GC tab navigation. E.g. the expected workflow
for new users getting source code changes is:

1.) :open google vimperator -> should hopefully list you vimperator.org,
    currently it actually lists the wikipedia page first!

2.) click vimperator to open the vimperator project
3.) Click "source code" just below the "Download" button

People surfing there often, will have the direct link to the source
code highly ranked in there awesomebar results anyway.

But more important: With the iframe-approach of embedding relevant
pages into vimperator.org pages, it just looked odd to have that
navigation there, and this was a simple idea to minimize the GC
user interface.

> Now, the links are in what is, ostesnsibly, the 
> external links section. I really can't think of a good reason 
> for this. It's annoying.

I put them in the external section so they CAN be access when really
needed, but it shouldn't be needed often.

> P.S. The links section needs a link to the amo page.

Sounds like a good idea, but again, then it should be 3 links.
Even though muttator and xulmus probably have 1/100th market share
of vimperator, the fact that we have currently 3 projects should
always be considered - it always appears to me that you (and especially
Doug) seem to forget that.
 
> Fuck the API. Just XHR the issues list.

And parsing the DOM/html code manually?
Google gadgets actually makes it very simple to get the source code from
other pages:

http://sites.google.com/a/vimperator.org/www/vimperator/scripts

should have (=should, since google gadgets seem to have a too long cache
by default) a 3rd "Test:" list view of just the issue list <div>, but -
as expected - it doesn't work without all the boilerplate javascript,
etc.

Or do you probably mean just parsing the DOM and manually
extracting/building the relevant issue texts? Without a stable API that
just cries for being often broken, but I just might have misunderstood
what you mean by XmlHttpRequest...
 
>>> I'm not suggesting GC is ideal but I'd think the website had to be much,
>>
>>> much, better to even justify its existence.
>>
>>I am not discussing that point. IF there was just vimperator (and not muttator,
>>xulmus, ...) we might argue, but the single GC as we settled now is really not
>>meant to present multiple projects nicely.
> 
> Wiki.

You seem to like using wiki pages for everything but that does not solve
the problem that a project like vimperator labs should have a clear and
logical navigation which can be hard archieved, since you cannot even
change/add tabs to the GC navigation pane.

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sun Oct  4 09:53:13 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 18:53:13 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <644fc65e0910040814m1bad6354k6b3654523a0ecbb8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org>	<4AC7A508.8060400@vimperator.org>
	<644fc65e0910032301v299aa4fbkcdafed8baf410633@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AC882DF.2020906@vimperator.org>
	<644fc65e0910040814m1bad6354k6b3654523a0ecbb8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AC8D2F9.4070702@vimperator.org>

On 10/04/2009 05:14 PM, Doug Kearns wrote:
>> Not the web site should be seperate, the GC pages should be. And *one* of
>> the main reasons is, that "normal" users should always be able to do
>> 90% of their vimperator related surfing with showing vimperator.org as
>> the domain.
> 
> Why on earth is that important, let alone one the main reasons?  So
> vanity is driving the web split?

You might not believe me, but I am vain - atypical for geeks but at
least my girlfriend also says that about me.
Anyways, you forget one thing:
The thing I want to achieve is NOT a web split, just the contrary.
Everything should be doable from one interface (the vimperator.org) and
the GC pages are meant as an internal helper tool to achieve that.

> To be frank I sometimes think the project has ideas above its station -
> it's just a browser add-on.  The whole premise that people are spending
> vast amounts of time cruising the Vimperator website(s) (while admiring
> the URL) is a nonsense.  I'd wager a significant bet that most "normal"
> users don't spend any time on the website and those that do are more
> than capable of driving GC.

I agree with you there, and that's how the vimperator.org page is
designed:

Usecase1: the guy knowing what vimperator is, just wanting to download it:
Go there, look for vimperator, but also see we do some other nice
projects but continue to the vimperator project page anyway. See the
big fat yellow download button, download it.

Usecase2: Somebody just heard first about vimperator and wants to learn more:
Google vimperator, and opens vimperator.org. Continues to vimperator.
Reads the text there, looks at some screenshots, reads the feature list
and downloads it.

Usecase3: someone heard of a strange music player addon called xulmus:
Googles it -> finds vimperator.org. Continues to /xulmus subpage,
reads the text as well, downloads it.

Usecase4: Someone using vimperator for quite some time, wants to contribute:
He finds vimperator.org, finds the "Contribute" link in the navigation
pane, reads the text, fetches the source code with the instructions
THERE (and not from the GC page), and starts sending patches.

Usecase5: Somebody thinks muttator needs another feature:
Finds vimperator.org, navigates to muttator, sees the "Bugs" section.
Quickly sees if the feature is already requested, but since it isn't
he follows the "Request new feature" link there and already has
a nice proper new pre-filled GC issue.

Usecase6: Somebody just reinstalled vimperator on a new machine, and now 
he wants a few of his loved plugins back:
Navigate to vimperator.org->Select "scripts" and he already sees all
scripts which work with vimperator.

Of course there might be a few use cases which would fit GC better, e.g.
Usecase7: Ted Pavlic wants to create a new wiki about correct copyright :)
But even that would not be harder with the vimperator.org is the control
center to do anything vimperator related.

> In my experience, the "normal" user installs from AMO and waits to
> prompted for an update - that's it.  Of the dozen or so Vimperator users
> I've come across "in the wild" (IT workers all) not a single one even
> used plugins and their RC file usage didn't extend past the occasional
> :mkv.

And? I don't think the "normal" new developer will find it hard to find
what he wants from vimp.org and "old" developers neither, or could just
bookmark a deeplink to a very specific GC page anyway, if really needed.

> Hmmm, there seems to be someone's ugly
> mug on the AMO site now though.  For the love of god, why? :(


If you mean "face" with "mug" (I had to look it up, and it seems "mug"
has tons of collocial meanings apart from the obvious "cup"): AMo
suggest to add a picture of oneself to the developer's page, so "the
users can build a deeper connection to the project" or something like
that, bla bla... :)

> Sure, just provide a link to the filtered view.  What's so hard about
> that?  I don't see why framing the whole GC tracker page on another
> site, pages deep, is so much clearer than providing a direct link to it.

For some actions like "report new bug" I exactly do that. But usually
a bug display is used to 

>>> The Screenshots and Developer Info pages could be moved to the wiki
>>> too.

Then everything is just *somewhere*. I mean, shouldn't a proper project
page have a clear usability concept instead of just being one big wiki?
(even with a few links from the project homepage it's still not
something with a proper, logical navigation).

> By whom and when?  In a year no one even bothered to sort out the last
> wiki.  I fail to see why selecting "Vimperator FAQ" over "Muttator FAQ"
> is beyond our user base if required.

If we go your route of having everything as a wiki, we'd quickly add up
to 30 or more (unfiltered) wiki pages and apart from that, it's still
very unlogical to me, that i have to go to the Wiki tab just to find
screenshots.
 
> What magic does this API offer that we don't already have access too?
> Anyway I still think it's largely a waste of time.

It would give me a list of bugs in (hopefully) JSON (or in XML or
whatever) and is supposed to be stable for a few years (instead of
always changing HTML output). And that gives you an easy way to
integrate the *data* from google code into our homepage - as it was
always meant to be. E.g. when listing plugins, we could have a list like

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
flashblock.js | Kris Maglione                           Download | More info
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
vimperator.vim| Doug Kearns                             Download | More info
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

which would not be possible with the GC UI alone, as it's display of
attachments sucks.
 
>> With the current iframe idea, one would have the (a little ugly, i agree)
>> double header, but it's not THAT ugly.
> 
> True, it is missing a Geocities banner. :P

Ah, good idea :) Unfortunately geocities has closed its doors a few
months ago ;( 

>> I am not discussing that point.
> I'm glad you're open to differing opinion. ;-)
 
:)

> I'm not opposed to a website I'm just opposed to having essentially two
> of them.  If you're serious we should really do it properly and host a
> decent, fully integrated, website with interesting content.

I never wanted two web sites. What if I went the github way? Then it
wouldn't be a problem to have vimp.org and the github repository/issue
tracker? The website is vimperator.org. The GC page is just our
internal "backend" to provide/store some data which can't be done in
google sites.

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sun Oct  4 10:13:20 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 19:13:20 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <20091004030520.GA31402@jg>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org>
	<4AC7A508.8060400@vimperator.org> <20091004030520.GA31402@jg>
Message-ID: <4AC8D7B0.3090000@vimperator.org>

On 10/04/2009 05:05 AM, Kris Maglione wrote:

> Alternatively, you might 
> just link to another iframe. That would be fine (Google is rife 
> with iframes, if you haven't noticed).

Yeah, I noticed that. I still don't like them, as sometimes they might
appear not belonging the the page (e.g. a selection does not work
across iframes), but I think they mostly went that way for security
concerns.

> A gadget 
> would be better still (except that gadgets don't work from 
> elinks).


Just out of curiosity: How many modern pages do work with elinks?
I can't imagine google reader or facebook or youtube ;) working

well with it.


 
>>3.) Screenshots:
>>Well, needs some new and sexy screenshots, but otherwise will probably
>>just stay as it is. *Maybe* we should do 3-4 thumbnails on that page which
>>will expand when clicked on.
> 
> We have newer screenshots than *that*, at least. Even the 
> *Wikipedia* page has newer screenshots than that.

Yeah. But for the screenshots I have decided that it will be the best to
remove that subpage completely, and I will just add a <h2>Screenshots</h2>
below the Features where I'll add 3-4 screenshot thumbnails which
expand when being clicked on.

>>5.) Developer Info
>>Is that the best name for this section (which needs updating),
>>or do you have better ideas?
> 
> The name works, I suppose, but it's not all applicable only to 
> devs. I'd prefer something like "Contributing", and then only 
> listing info on submitting patches, earning commit access, code 
> style, etc. The GC page explains the checkout procedure.

But the user/developer should not need to go to the GC page, having
the most important info directly in one page is much better. So that
a new developer can just start hacking after reading that one page.



From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sun Oct  4 10:46:06 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 13:46:06 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <4AC8D7B0.3090000@vimperator.org>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org>
	<4AC7A508.8060400@vimperator.org> <20091004030520.GA31402@jg>
	<4AC8D7B0.3090000@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091004174606.GG31402@jg>

On Sun, Oct 04, 2009 at 07:13:20PM +0200, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>> A gadget 
>> would be better still (except that gadgets don't work from 
>> elinks).
>
>
>Just out of curiosity: How many modern pages do work with elinks?
>I can't imagine google reader or facebook or youtube ;) working
>well with it.

I don't care about Google Reader or Facebook. An issue tracker 
should work in text mode. Google Code works fine with elinks and 
links. Google Mail's plain html view does the same. Although, I 
may be overstating the matter. elinks supports JS, so it 
probably supports some gadgets.

>Yeah. But for the screenshots I have decided that it will be the best to
>remove that subpage completely, and I will just add a <h2>Screenshots</h2>
>below the Features where I'll add 3-4 screenshot thumbnails which
>expand when being clicked on.

The screenshot on amo desparately needs to be updated too. It 
shows the (ugly) devmo page, which is bad enough, and an 
horrendously outdated version of Vimperator, with no 
particularly interesting features visible, to make things worse.

>> The name works, I suppose, but it's not all applicable only to 
>> devs. I'd prefer something like "Contributing", and then only 
>> listing info on submitting patches, earning commit access, code 
>> style, etc. The GC page explains the checkout procedure.
>
>But the user/developer should not need to go to the GC page, having
>the most important info directly in one page is much better. So that
>a new developer can just start hacking after reading that one page.

But, and I repeat myself, Google Code provides an elegant, 
consistent, and familiar interface to developers. There's no 
reason to discourage them from using it. That's who it's for: 
developers. It's there to make our lives easier. Why are you so 
intent on hiding it?

-- 
Kris Maglione

I can hardly see how anyone ought to wish Christianity to be true; for
if so the plain language of the text seems to show that the men who do
not believe, and this would include my Father, Brother, and almost all
my best friends, will be everlastingly punished.  And this is a
damnable doctrine.
	--Charles Darwin


From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sun Oct  4 11:07:44 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 20:07:44 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <20091004174606.GG31402@jg>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org>	<4AC7A508.8060400@vimperator.org>
	<20091004030520.GA31402@jg>	<4AC8D7B0.3090000@vimperator.org>
	<20091004174606.GG31402@jg>
Message-ID: <4AC8E470.7020502@vimperator.org>

On 10/04/2009 07:46 PM, Kris Maglione wrote:

> The screenshot on amo desparately needs to be updated too


Sure. Once I find time to make new screenshots under a window
manager which has sexy looking title bars (probably metacity with
the fantastic new wave theme), I'll update all
of those screenshots as well (probabaly also a few from wikipedia).

> But, and I repeat myself, Google Code provides an elegant, 
> consistent, and familiar interface to developers. There's no 
> reason to discourage them from using it. That's who it's for: 
> developers. It's there to make our lives easier. Why are you so 
> intent on hiding it?


Since a single place (=vimperator.org) for users and developers
who care about vimperator was just so appealing.

The main motivation for hiding was just to make the iframe'd
GC pages look better inside vimperator.org. The second reason
was that i don't want people to "accidentally" see the downloads
page and having complaints like "I can't install the addon
from there" (you know, that GC bug serving the wrong content
type).

But ok, I'll add back the GC tabs since you and Doug (=the most
important developers) both want them. 

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sun Oct  4 11:25:23 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 14:25:23 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <4AC8E470.7020502@vimperator.org>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org>
	<4AC7A508.8060400@vimperator.org> <20091004030520.GA31402@jg>
	<4AC8D7B0.3090000@vimperator.org> <20091004174606.GG31402@jg>
	<4AC8E470.7020502@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091004182523.GH31402@jg>

On Sun, Oct 04, 2009 at 08:07:44PM +0200, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>Sure. Once I find time to make new screenshots under a window
>manager which has sexy looking title bars (probably metacity with
>the fantastic new wave theme), I'll update all
>of those screenshots as well (probabaly also a few from wikipedia).

Nobody cares about the titlebars. Just upload one without the 
titlebars. One from Wikipedia even. Or one of the myriad other 
recent ones that aren't ancient and don't look aweful. I can't 
imagine it takes much longer than it does to type a reply to 
this message.

>Since a single place (=vimperator.org) for users and developers
>who care about vimperator was just so appealing.

Well, unless that single place can match Google Code in utility 
and consistency (which it can't), I don't see the point in 
breaking the latter.

>(you know, that GC bug serving the wrong content
>type).

I don't especially mind the downloads tab being hidden. Featured 
downloads appear in their proper place on the front page, 
anyway. An "Install" link to the amo page would at least 
ameliorate that problem, anyway. Or just stick a gadget on the 
front page that uses InstallTrigger to install them.

>But ok, I'll add back the GC tabs since you and Doug (=the most
>important developers) both want them. 

Thank you.

-- 
Kris Maglione

A program that produces incorrect results twice as fast is infinitely
slower.
	--John Osterhout


From ted at tedpavlic.com  Sun Oct  4 12:17:37 2009
From: ted at tedpavlic.com (Ted Pavlic)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 15:17:37 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] license header
In-Reply-To: <644fc65e0910022247h9114d59v1ea12609f5c10261@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AC4A1A4.3030208@vimperator.org>
	<4AC6815B.4050604@vimperator.org> 
	<644fc65e0910022247h9114d59v1ea12609f5c10261@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4e0a90ed0910041217w5c8d5f69o4ec2194d57dee12c@mail.gmail.com>

>> 4.) I used 2006-2009 style like notation, as the lines
>> ? ?would become REALLY long in a few years if I listed
>> ? ?every year specially. The first year should note
>> ? ?when the file was first created though.
>
> Didn't Ted claim that year ranges were pointless? ?If so, it's not
> about what looks pretty but what's meaningful. ;-)

OK. So replace "2006-2009" with "2006, 2009". I think the meaning of
that phrase is clear and serves the same purpose.

--Ted

-- 
Ted Pavlic <ted at tedpavlic.com>

From ted at tedpavlic.com  Sun Oct  4 12:20:43 2009
From: ted at tedpavlic.com (Ted Pavlic)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 15:20:43 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] license header
In-Reply-To: <4AC6FF8D.70209@vimperator.org>
References: <4AC4A1A4.3030208@vimperator.org>
	<4AC6815B.4050604@vimperator.org> 
	<644fc65e0910022247h9114d59v1ea12609f5c10261@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4AC6FF8D.70209@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <4e0a90ed0910041220y60c4d813w84d397c55015ebe4@mail.gmail.com>

>> Didn't Ted claim that year ranges were pointless? ?If so, it's not
>> about what looks pretty but what's meaningful. ;-)
>
> He pointed out, that just the last year is really relevant,
> but the others "don't hurt".

I meant to imply that there's no sylistic agreement on what a "range"
looks like. That is, I think most people would agree it's...

YEAR1(en dash)YEAR2

However, implementing an "en dash" with 7-bit ASCII is problematic.
More importantly, when you say "2004--2009", it's not clear whether
you mean "2004 and 2009" or "2004, 2006, 2009" or "2004, 2005, 2006,
2007, 2008, 2009"... etc.

However, comma-delimited lists are well understood. I was saying that
if you want to have the same impact as a range, use a comma-delimited
list with just the first year and the last year.

--Ted

-- 
Ted Pavlic <ted at tedpavlic.com>

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sun Oct  4 12:35:55 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 21:35:55 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] license header
In-Reply-To: <4e0a90ed0910041217w5c8d5f69o4ec2194d57dee12c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AC4A1A4.3030208@vimperator.org>	<4AC6815B.4050604@vimperator.org>
	<644fc65e0910022247h9114d59v1ea12609f5c10261@mail.gmail.com>
	<4e0a90ed0910041217w5c8d5f69o4ec2194d57dee12c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AC8F91B.4010304@vimperator.org>

On 10/04/2009 09:17 PM, Ted Pavlic wrote:

> OK. So replace "2006-2009" with "2006, 2009". I think the meaning of
> that phrase is clear and serves the same purpose.


No, for me, the later means that I was on a beach drinking cocktails during
the years 2007 and 2008, while the former means, in any/most of the years
between 2006 and 2009 was work done.

Anyway, since only the last year has an impact anyway, I like the former
better. Maybe we can just say 1983-2009 like Windows 7 at some time ;)

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sun Oct  4 12:47:37 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 15:47:37 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] license header
In-Reply-To: <4AC8F91B.4010304@vimperator.org>
References: <4AC4A1A4.3030208@vimperator.org> <4AC6815B.4050604@vimperator.org>
	<644fc65e0910022247h9114d59v1ea12609f5c10261@mail.gmail.com>
	<4e0a90ed0910041217w5c8d5f69o4ec2194d57dee12c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AC8F91B.4010304@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091004194737.GI31402@jg>

On Sun, Oct 04, 2009 at 09:35:55PM +0200, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>On 10/04/2009 09:17 PM, Ted Pavlic wrote:
>
>> OK. So replace "2006-2009" with "2006, 2009". I think the meaning of
>> that phrase is clear and serves the same purpose.
>
>
>No, for me, the later means that I was on a beach drinking cocktails during
>the years 2007 and 2008, while the former means, in any/most of the years
>between 2006 and 2009 was work done.
>
>Anyway, since only the last year has an impact anyway, I like the former
>better. Maybe we can just say 1983-2009 like Windows 7 at some time ;)

The first year is required. Years after that are optional.

-- 
Kris Maglione

The computing scientist's main challenge is not to get confused by the
complexities of his own making.
	--Edsger W. Dijkstra


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Mon Oct  5 01:57:53 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 04:57:53 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <4AB4A9A8.7000203@vimperator.org>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org> <4AB401DC.2000803@vimperator.org>
	<20090918223320.GD3621@jg.domain_not_set.invalid>
	<4AB4A9A8.7000203@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091005085753.GK31402@jg>

On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 11:51:36AM +0200, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>> You can still HTTP POST them with curl or an HTTP capable 
>> scripting language. Send me an sqlite dump of the trac DB and 
>> I'll transfer them.
>
>Wow, that'd be great! I thought about that shortly myself, but
>thought that creating such a script will take longer than
>a manual transfer, especially if we also care about comments
>and attachments. But on the other hand, a semi manual approach
>would also be ok, so such a script would not need to be
>perfect.

Ok, mostly done. The issues and comments are all in (some of 
them twice, and in the wrong issues... typos). I'll do the 
attachments tomorrow. It turns out that Google is anal retentive 
about accepting POSTs of such things. The only hard part was 
getting them not to choke.

-- 
Kris Maglione

UNIX is simple.  It just takes a genius to understand its simplicity.
	--Dennis Ritchie


From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Mon Oct  5 03:01:28 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 12:01:28 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <20091005085753.GK31402@jg>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org> <4AB401DC.2000803@vimperator.org>
	<20090918223320.GD3621@jg.domain_not_set.invalid>
	<4AB4A9A8.7000203@vimperator.org> <20091005085753.GK31402@jg>
Message-ID: <aaae92100910050301l6693176dp38fc224298fc49cc@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ok, mostly done. The issues and comments are all in (some of them twice, and
> in the wrong issues... typos). I'll do the attachments tomorrow. It turns
> out that Google is anal retentive about accepting POSTs of such things. The
> only hard part was getting them not to choke.

Awesome! Thanks a lot for the import.

But am I missing something? It seems, that enhancements, color schemes
and plugins were imported, but not the bugs?

From keyur at paperandmore.com  Mon Oct  5 09:21:44 2009
From: keyur at paperandmore.com (Keyur Shah)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 09:21:44 -0700
Subject: [Vimperator] Doesn't load up anymore
Message-ID: <a9080b620910050921i71370669q7de3439ec728467a@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

Thanks for the wonderful software. Vimperator was working fine for me, until
recently. It would not load up with firefox and would only be available upon
restarting the computer. Now, it does not load up at all. I have created new
profiles, uninstalled and reinstalled firefox, restarted the computer, and
no luck. I've removed all extensions in case of conflict, but nothing seems
to make vimperator come back. I don't get the status bar on the bottom, and
firefox loads up as if vimperator doesn't exist. I'm on Windows XP and using
Firefox 3.5.3

Any ideas on what could be causing this?

Thanks in advance.
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From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Mon Oct  5 10:02:03 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 19:02:03 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Doesn't load up anymore
In-Reply-To: <a9080b620910050921i71370669q7de3439ec728467a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a9080b620910050921i71370669q7de3439ec728467a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aaae92100910051002u385ca4b5v47abf4c77e1a1fb6@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 6:21 PM, Keyur Shah <keyur at paperandmore.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Thanks for the wonderful software. Vimperator was working fine for me, until
> recently. It would not load up with firefox and would only be available upon
> restarting the computer. Now, it does not load up at all. I have created new
> profiles, uninstalled and reinstalled firefox, restarted the computer, and
> no luck. I've removed all extensions in case of conflict, but nothing seems
> to make vimperator come back. I don't get the status bar on the bottom, and
> firefox loads up as if vimperator doesn't exist. I'm on Windows XP and using
> Firefox 3.5.3
>
> Any ideas on what could be causing this?

Are there any errors in the error console?

From blair.craft at gmail.com  Mon Oct  5 10:10:11 2009
From: blair.craft at gmail.com (Blair Craft)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 10:10:11 -0700
Subject: [Vimperator] TypeError: sh is null
Message-ID: <7C6A5CEB-CC24-4FE1-8B75-052F234E5442@gmail.com>

I'm getting the following error in the Vimperator status bar when I  
open a new window:

Processing keypress event: TypeError: sh is null

I'm running Vimperator 2.1 in Firefox 3.5.3 on a Mac running MacOS  
10.6. I've got a clean .vimperatorrc and have removed all plugins.

The error seems to happen on all ex commands (:open, :tabopen, etc.)  
but non-ex commands (gg, gt, etc.) seem to work fine and it only  
happens in the new window; the original window continues to work  
flawlessly.

I've searched the mailing list as well as Google and come up with  
nothing. Any help would be appreciated.

Blair.


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From keyur at paperandmore.com  Mon Oct  5 11:43:26 2009
From: keyur at paperandmore.com (Keyur Shah)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 11:43:26 -0700
Subject: [Vimperator] Doesn't load up anymore
Message-ID: <a9080b620910051143y5fc767b8teb01abfa48b04838@mail.gmail.com>

Unfortunately, the only error that the error console reports is:

Warning: Unknown property 'zoom'.  Declaration dropped.
Source File:
http://www.google.com/firefox?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official
Line: 1


I also use Roboform, which i thought maybe causing the issue since it
automatically installs an adapter in firefox, but i uninstalled roboform
entireley, and no luck. is there any other logging that can be configured to
see other errors?

Thanks.
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From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Mon Oct  5 16:14:08 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 01:14:08 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <20091004174606.GG31402@jg>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org>	<4AC7A508.8060400@vimperator.org>
	<20091004030520.GA31402@jg>	<4AC8D7B0.3090000@vimperator.org>
	<20091004174606.GG31402@jg>
Message-ID: <4ACA7DC0.6060707@vimperator.org>

On 10/04/2009 07:46 PM, Kris Maglione wrote:

>>Yeah. But for the screenshots I have decided that it will be the best to
>>remove that subpage completely, and I will just add a <h2>Screenshots</h2>
>>below the Features where I'll add 3-4 screenshot thumbnails which
>>expand when being clicked on.


That is available now on 
http://test.vimperator.org/vimperator
and seems to be much better than the separate screenshots page. I just
don't know if the screenshots should be above the feature list
or below.

But 2 things learnt:
1.) The gnome screenshot tool is quite nice (I always used "import" until
now): It can automatically add a nice (for me at least) drop shadow to
taken screenshots, so no need to fire up gimp or use imagemagick manually
afterwords - awsome!
2.) Google sites "insert image" feature is very nice too. After uploading
the image, I could just select "small/medium/large/orginal size", and since
I clicked "medium" it seems google automatically caches/sends some thumbnails
to the main page, and automatically links to the full image when clicked.

So I could add 3 modern looking and up to date screenshots in a mere 5
minutes, instead of at least 3 times as much when doing all this process
of adding drop shadows and image thumbnails manually.

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Mon Oct  5 16:32:47 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 19:32:47 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <4ACA7DC0.6060707@vimperator.org>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org>
	<4AC7A508.8060400@vimperator.org> <20091004030520.GA31402@jg>
	<4AC8D7B0.3090000@vimperator.org> <20091004174606.GG31402@jg>
	<4ACA7DC0.6060707@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091005233247.GM31402@jg>

On Tue, Oct 06, 2009 at 01:14:08AM +0200, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>1.) The gnome screenshot tool is quite nice (I always used "import" until
>now): It can automatically add a nice (for me at least) drop shadow to
>taken screenshots, so no need to fire up gimp or use imagemagick manually
>afterwords - awsome!

Gimp can take its own screenshots. import is ImageMagick, and 
ImageMagick knows about pipes. Neither of them depend on 36
Gnome libraries, although Gimp comes close.

>So I could add 3 modern looking and up to date screenshots in a mere 5
>minutes, instead of at least 3 times as much when doing all this process
>of adding drop shadows and image thumbnails manually.

I can't imagine it would take you that long to do it manually. 
Gimp can do it all easily enough. A 3-minute script could do it 
even easier, if it became a habit.

-- 
Kris Maglione

If C gives you enough rope to hang yourself, C++ gives you enough rope
to bind and gag your neighbourhood, rig the sails in a small ship and
still have enough rope left to hang yourself from the yardarm.
	--Anonymous


From nemolivier at gmail.com  Mon Oct  5 16:33:35 2009
From: nemolivier at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Olivier_Gu=E9ry?=)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 01:33:35 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <4ACA7DC0.6060707@vimperator.org>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org> <4AC7A508.8060400@vimperator.org>
	<20091004030520.GA31402@jg> <4AC8D7B0.3090000@vimperator.org>
	<20091004174606.GG31402@jg> <4ACA7DC0.6060707@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <5c2c86e70910051633o66f6d2cexa77874dd0d59c4e2@mail.gmail.com>

2009/10/6 Martin Stubenschrott <stubenschrott at vimperator.org>:
> On 10/04/2009 07:46 PM, Kris Maglione wrote:
>
>>>Yeah. But for the screenshots I have decided that it will be the best to
>>>remove that subpage completely, and I will just add a <h2>Screenshots</h2>
>>>below the Features where I'll add 3-4 screenshot thumbnails which
>>>expand when being clicked on.

Not realy related, but on this page : http://test.vimperator.org/vimperator/bugs
the link to the french tutorial is wrond (we change the name of the site?!)
Please use this one :?http://bepo.fr/wiki/Vimperator

(yes, I can also wait for the real new-wiki to be on line, but I?m
gonne forget !)

Olivier.

-- 
[Message tap? sur un clavier B?po : http://www.bepo.fr ]
http://soubresauts.net

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Mon Oct  5 16:40:24 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 01:40:24 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <20091005233247.GM31402@jg>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org>	<4AC7A508.8060400@vimperator.org>
	<20091004030520.GA31402@jg>	<4AC8D7B0.3090000@vimperator.org>
	<20091004174606.GG31402@jg>	<4ACA7DC0.6060707@vimperator.org>
	<20091005233247.GM31402@jg>
Message-ID: <4ACA83E8.3000108@vimperator.org>

On 10/06/2009 01:32 AM, Kris Maglione wrote:

> I can't imagine it would take you that long to do it manually. 
> Gimp can do it all easily enough. A 3-minute script could do it 
> even easier, if it became a habit.


If it comes a habit, then of course using some proper imagemagik
(or similar) usage is of course even faster, but that's the point:
How often do i need to make screenshots with drop shadows?
Twice a year? How often do I use gimp? Once a year?
And when I need to do new screenshots in e.g. half a year,
I am sure I have forgotten the magic imagemagick magic ;)
Even if I wrote a script, I am sure I would have forgotten,
that I have such a script :)

I know, I get old, 2 years ago I am very sure I wouldn't be crazy
about a gnome tool but would defend good-old command line tools...

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Mon Oct  5 16:44:26 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 01:44:26 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <5c2c86e70910051633o66f6d2cexa77874dd0d59c4e2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org>
	<4AC7A508.8060400@vimperator.org>	<20091004030520.GA31402@jg>
	<4AC8D7B0.3090000@vimperator.org>	<20091004174606.GG31402@jg>
	<4ACA7DC0.6060707@vimperator.org>
	<5c2c86e70910051633o66f6d2cexa77874dd0d59c4e2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ACA84DA.30501@vimperator.org>

On 10/06/2009 01:33 AM, Olivier Gu?ry wrote:

> Not realy related, but on this page : http://test.vimperator.org/vimperator/bugs
> the link to the french tutorial is wrond (we change the name of the site !)
> Please use this one : http://bepo.fr/wiki/Vimperator
> 
> (yes, I can also wait for the real new-wiki to be on line, but I?m
> gonne forget !)


Thanks, updated!

And yeah, I'll finish the google gadgets with the correct href within this
week. It's sad that I haven't found out how to "programmatically" add
parameters to google gadgets, there only seem to be UserPrefs which
the user needs to set by themselves.
mygadget.xml?query=project:vimperator
would be nice, but i don't think that works.

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Mon Oct  5 16:47:44 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 19:47:44 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <4ACA83E8.3000108@vimperator.org>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org>
	<4AC7A508.8060400@vimperator.org> <20091004030520.GA31402@jg>
	<4AC8D7B0.3090000@vimperator.org> <20091004174606.GG31402@jg>
	<4ACA7DC0.6060707@vimperator.org> <20091005233247.GM31402@jg>
	<4ACA83E8.3000108@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091005234744.GN31402@jg>

On Tue, Oct 06, 2009 at 01:40:24AM +0200, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>If it comes a habit, then of course using some proper imagemagik
>(or similar) usage is of course even faster, but that's the point:
>How often do i need to make screenshots with drop shadows?
>Twice a year? How often do I use gimp? Once a year?

How hard is it to add a drop shadow to a screenshot in Gimp? It 
took me 30 seconds to do the whole deal a minute ago, and I 
don't add drop shows to anything. Ever. At any rate, perhaps if 
you had a script, you'd update the screenshots more often. How 
old was that amo screenshot? I'd venture to guess ~2 years.

-- 
Kris Maglione

One does well to put on gloves when reading the New Testament.  The
proximity of so much uncleanliness almost forces one to do this.
	--Friedrich Nietzsche


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Mon Oct  5 20:59:26 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 23:59:26 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <aaae92100910050301l6693176dp38fc224298fc49cc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org> <4AB401DC.2000803@vimperator.org>
	<20090918223320.GD3621@jg.domain_not_set.invalid>
	<4AB4A9A8.7000203@vimperator.org> <20091005085753.GK31402@jg>
	<aaae92100910050301l6693176dp38fc224298fc49cc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091006035926.GO31402@jg>

On Mon, Oct 05, 2009 at 12:01:28PM +0200, Stubenschrott, Martin wrote:
>On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ok, mostly done. The issues and comments are all in (some of them twice, and
>> in the wrong issues... typos). I'll do the attachments tomorrow. It turns
>> out that Google is anal retentive about accepting POSTs of such things. The
>> only hard part was getting them not to choke.
>
>Awesome! Thanks a lot for the import.
>
>But am I missing something? It seems, that enhancements, color schemes
>and plugins were imported, but not the bugs?

Yep, it seems another typo snuck into my last refactoring. It's 
really easy to make typos when you're fighting with a bitchy 
HTTP server. *shakes a fist at Google*

Anyway, I need a tarball of the trac attachments directory.

-- 
Kris Maglione

Technology is dominated by two types of people: Those who understand
what they do not manage.  Those who manage what they do not
understand.
	--Putt's Law


From dougkearns at gmail.com  Mon Oct  5 22:54:37 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 16:54:37 +1100
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <20091005234744.GN31402@jg>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org>
	<4AC7A508.8060400@vimperator.org> 
	<20091004030520.GA31402@jg> <4AC8D7B0.3090000@vimperator.org> 
	<20091004174606.GG31402@jg> <4ACA7DC0.6060707@vimperator.org> 
	<20091005233247.GM31402@jg> <4ACA83E8.3000108@vimperator.org> 
	<20091005234744.GN31402@jg>
Message-ID: <644fc65e0910052254y174b6b91p888f02b4b863fae6@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
> How old was that amo screenshot? I'd venture to guess ~2 years.

...and the rest.  It was raised prior to the 0.5 release but, even
after all that waiting, we end up with an ugly title bar anyway.

You know, it's the whinging I can't stand.  ;-)

Doug

From dougkearns at gmail.com  Wed Oct  7 04:54:04 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 22:54:04 +1100
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <4AC8D2F9.4070702@vimperator.org>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org>
	<4AC7A508.8060400@vimperator.org> 
	<644fc65e0910032301v299aa4fbkcdafed8baf410633@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4AC882DF.2020906@vimperator.org>
	<644fc65e0910040814m1bad6354k6b3654523a0ecbb8@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4AC8D2F9.4070702@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <644fc65e0910070454v2620954as88d19c9e106cee2c@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 3:53 AM, Martin Stubenschrott
<stubenschrott at vimperator.org> wrote:
> On 10/04/2009 05:14 PM, Doug Kearns wrote:

> You might not believe me, but I am vain - atypical for geeks but at
> least my girlfriend also says that about me.

Nice to have that on the record. ;-)

>> To be frank I sometimes think the project has ideas above its station -
>> it's just a browser add-on. ?The whole premise that people are spending
>> vast amounts of time cruising the Vimperator website(s) (while admiring
>> the URL) is a nonsense. ?I'd wager a significant bet that most "normal"
>> users don't spend any time on the website and those that do are more
>> than capable of driving GC.
>
> I agree with you there, and that's how the vimperator.org page is
> designed:

<snip Use Cases - UML can't be far away>

s|vimperator.org|code.google.com/p/vimperator-labs/| and Bob's your
uncle.

> And? I don't think the "normal" new developer will find it hard to find
> what he wants from vimp.org and "old" developers neither, or could just
> bookmark a deeplink to a very specific GC page anyway, if really needed.

I think most users would simply bypass the website for GC once they
discover the ruse.

> If we go your route of having everything as a wiki, we'd quickly add up
> to 30 or more (unfiltered) wiki pages and apart from that, it's still
> very unlogical to me, that i have to go to the Wiki tab just to find
> screenshots.

What's this "unfiltered" business?  A wiki is just a website, I don't
understand your pathological hatred of the things.  Were you attacked by
a small feral wiki as a child?

> I never wanted two web sites. What if I went the github way? Then it
> wouldn't be a problem to have vimp.org and the github repository/issue
> tracker?

Presumably you'd have stuck it in an IFRAME.  I wouldn't really care if
there was a wiki, a bug tracker and a repo all at different sites doing
a single job, but you've selected a pretty good integrated solution then
wrapped it needlessly because it offends your sense of 'style'.

> The website is vimperator.org. The GC page is just our
> internal "backend" to provide/store some data which can't be done in
> google sites.

There's nothing internal about it, it's freeballing for all the world to
see...

Doug

PS. On a related note vimperator.org is a bit of a mess at the moment.
For example, there's missing logos from the home page and downloads are
broken according to Daniel.  There was even a couple of complaints about
not being able to download Muttator on IRC yesterday and I didn't think
anyone used it - shame on me. ;-)

From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Wed Oct  7 05:12:20 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 14:12:20 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <644fc65e0910070454v2620954as88d19c9e106cee2c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org> <4AC7A508.8060400@vimperator.org>
	<644fc65e0910032301v299aa4fbkcdafed8baf410633@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AC882DF.2020906@vimperator.org>
	<644fc65e0910040814m1bad6354k6b3654523a0ecbb8@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AC8D2F9.4070702@vimperator.org>
	<644fc65e0910070454v2620954as88d19c9e106cee2c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aaae92100910070512y1145b013m7687a53b1a77e4@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Doug Kearns <dougkearns at gmail.com> wrote:
> <snip Use Cases - UML can't be far away>

That is very very different to me. (Informal) use cases just means, that people
think about how software is being used and not just blindly implement things
without thinking about requirements. UML on the other is much too formalized
and mainly for big business IMHO.

> I think most users would simply bypass the website for GC once they
> discover the ruse.

s/users/developers/ and yes, people who often file bugs, etc. can of course
use GC directly, since they know what they are doing anyway (hopefully).
I am not sure, however, if a person who hast just written his first plugin
knows how to add that *properly* to the issue tracker, when just given
GC - but I know your answer will be "wiki page" ;)

> What's this "unfiltered" business? ?A wiki is just a website.

Wiki is for me: http://code.google.com/p/vimperator-labs/w/list

and this includes a big pile of unrelated things (the FAQ of muttator is in
the same list as e.g. a simple howto for xulmus) - therefore grouping by
project is the least thing we should do.

all other things are wiki pages,

> PS. On a related note vimperator.org is a bit of a mess at the moment.
> For example, there's missing logos from the home page and downloads are
> broken according to Daniel. ?There was even a couple of complaints about
> not being able to download Muttator on IRC yesterday and I didn't think
> anyone used it - shame on me. ;-)

I know, but (www.)vimperator.org will point to the google sites pages in a few
days anyway, just finishing the last bits. And hey, cool @muttator. I do think
and hope that now that TB3 is soon to be released (beta 1 is out now) that
more people will also use muttator.

From dougkearns at gmail.com  Wed Oct  7 06:32:10 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 00:32:10 +1100
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <aaae92100910070512y1145b013m7687a53b1a77e4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org>
	<4AC7A508.8060400@vimperator.org> 
	<644fc65e0910032301v299aa4fbkcdafed8baf410633@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4AC882DF.2020906@vimperator.org>
	<644fc65e0910040814m1bad6354k6b3654523a0ecbb8@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4AC8D2F9.4070702@vimperator.org>
	<644fc65e0910070454v2620954as88d19c9e106cee2c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<aaae92100910070512y1145b013m7687a53b1a77e4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <644fc65e0910070632g53a0d0fcj1fbdebc01380dc32@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 11:12 PM, Stubenschrott, Martin
<maxauthority at vimperator.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Doug Kearns <dougkearns at gmail.com> wrote:

>> What's this "unfiltered" business?  A wiki is just a website.
>
> Wiki is for me: http://code.google.com/p/vimperator-labs/w/list
>
> and this includes a big pile of unrelated things (the FAQ of muttator is in
> the same list as e.g. a simple howto for xulmus) - therefore grouping by
> project is the least thing we should do.

That's just the default wiki index page, replace it with a better
organised TOC page if you like.  Besides, your point of entry to the
wiki would most likely be a link from the Summary page anyway.

Doug

From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Wed Oct  7 07:14:41 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 16:14:41 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <644fc65e0910070632g53a0d0fcj1fbdebc01380dc32@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org> <4AC7A508.8060400@vimperator.org>
	<644fc65e0910032301v299aa4fbkcdafed8baf410633@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AC882DF.2020906@vimperator.org>
	<644fc65e0910040814m1bad6354k6b3654523a0ecbb8@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AC8D2F9.4070702@vimperator.org>
	<644fc65e0910070454v2620954as88d19c9e106cee2c@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaae92100910070512y1145b013m7687a53b1a77e4@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0910070632g53a0d0fcj1fbdebc01380dc32@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aaae92100910070714s771d9bc5qe76c63ab3fcd6c9c@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 3:32 PM, Doug Kearns <dougkearns at gmail.com> wrote:
> That's just the default wiki index page, replace it with a better
> organised TOC page if you like.

It's still the argument, that I think
homepage->muttator->wiki
is much more logical than
homepage->wiki->muttator

Especially if we think about the future, which makes new projects not likely but
possible.

> ?Besides, your point of entry to the
> wiki would most likely be a link from the Summary page anyway.

Right, BUT only showing the entries the user is interested. I mean, why should
the user see a muttator FAQ, if he (just like you) don't care about muttator
at all and just likes his favorite questions about vimperator answered?

From dougkearns at gmail.com  Wed Oct  7 08:11:19 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 02:11:19 +1100
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <aaae92100910070714s771d9bc5qe76c63ab3fcd6c9c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org>
	<4AC7A508.8060400@vimperator.org> 
	<644fc65e0910032301v299aa4fbkcdafed8baf410633@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4AC882DF.2020906@vimperator.org>
	<644fc65e0910040814m1bad6354k6b3654523a0ecbb8@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4AC8D2F9.4070702@vimperator.org>
	<644fc65e0910070454v2620954as88d19c9e106cee2c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<aaae92100910070512y1145b013m7687a53b1a77e4@mail.gmail.com> 
	<644fc65e0910070632g53a0d0fcj1fbdebc01380dc32@mail.gmail.com> 
	<aaae92100910070714s771d9bc5qe76c63ab3fcd6c9c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <644fc65e0910070811r646324d4ybb21ff1c85a3a27c@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Stubenschrott, Martin
<maxauthority at vimperator.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 3:32 PM, Doug Kearns <dougkearns at gmail.com> wrote:
>> That's just the default wiki index page, replace it with a better
>> organised TOC page if you like.
>
> It's still the argument, that I think
> homepage->muttator->wiki
> is much more logical than
> homepage->wiki->muttator

Any of summary->wiki-homepage->muttator or summary->muttator or
wiki-hompage->muttator (selecting the wiki tab) would be available.

> Especially if we think about the future, which makes new projects not likely but
> possible.

So it's essentially irrelevant for now.  We've already been through two
websites, trackers and VCSs in two and a half years.  I don't see why
this should be expected to be the last.  It'll be lucky to last the
year. :)

>> Besides, your point of entry to the
>> wiki would most likely be a link from the Summary page anyway.
>
> Right, BUT only showing the entries the user is interested. I mean, why should
> the user see a muttator FAQ, if he (just like you) don't care about muttator
> at all and just likes his favorite questions about vimperator answered?

I won't.  It could be exactly like the web site you're proposing with
collapsible menus in a sidebar.  I'd never see it because I'd never
expand the muttator menu nor visit the muttator sub-section.  I don't
see a significant difference, if any at all.  And if I hide the sidebar
I don't even have to see the word "Muttator".

E.g. http://code.google.com/p/support/wiki/GettingStarted

Doug

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Wed Oct  7 17:24:42 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 20:24:42 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <644fc65e0910070811r646324d4ybb21ff1c85a3a27c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AC7A508.8060400@vimperator.org>
	<644fc65e0910032301v299aa4fbkcdafed8baf410633@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AC882DF.2020906@vimperator.org>
	<644fc65e0910040814m1bad6354k6b3654523a0ecbb8@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AC8D2F9.4070702@vimperator.org>
	<644fc65e0910070454v2620954as88d19c9e106cee2c@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaae92100910070512y1145b013m7687a53b1a77e4@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0910070632g53a0d0fcj1fbdebc01380dc32@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaae92100910070714s771d9bc5qe76c63ab3fcd6c9c@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0910070811r646324d4ybb21ff1c85a3a27c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091008002442.GR31402@jg>

On Thu, Oct 08, 2009 at 02:11:19AM +1100, Doug Kearns wrote:
>On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Stubenschrott, Martin <maxauthority at vimperator.org> wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 3:32 PM, Doug Kearns <dougkearns at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> That's just the default wiki index page, replace it with a better 
>>> organised TOC page if you like.
>>
>> It's still the argument, that I think
>> homepage->muttator->wiki
>> is much more logical than
>> homepage->wiki->muttator
>
>Any of summary->wiki-homepage->muttator or summary->muttator or
>wiki-hompage->muttator (selecting the wiki tab) would be available.

This is getting absurd. If I see one more arrow, I think I'm 
going to snap and kill you all, really. At any rate, we need to 
get this settled. Here's what I think we can all agree on:

  * We need to get this resolved as soon as possible. We're all 
  wasting our time implementing things that are bound to change 
  and arguing about it in the mean time. Moreover, vimperator.org 
  is going to disappear very soon and is currently largely 
  inaccurate in its content.

  * The current situation is untenable. The iframes are 
  confusing, ugly, and very apparently hacky. They break the back 
  button, they break bookmarks, they don't add anything.

  * Yes, we can replace them with a gadgets. This, of course, 
  creates its own problems. They would be a nightmare to develop 
  and to maintain. They would invariably present accessability 
  issues. They would hide an already simple, familiar, and widely 
  used interface which is already designed and maintained by a 
  large team of world class programmers, system administrators, 
  and user interface designers.

    The best bet in that circumstance would be to XHR the actual 
  web page and isolate the elements we actually need (jQuery 
  makes this trivial). Unfortunately, that would only work from 
  code.google.com; the only off-site solution is to wait for 
  Google to support the <script/> injection hack and develop a 
  new UI ourselves, which is, again, untenable.

  * The Google Code wiki presents no organizational problems 
  above and beyond what we face with an external website. To 
  argue otherwise is an exercise in futility. We have a great 
  deal of control over the organization of the wiki, it provides 
  a side-bar navigation system and a customizable front page. In 
  the absolute worst of circumstances, we could use the front 
  page of the wiki in place of the test.vimperator.org page. In 
  (arguably) the best, we could use the front page of the Google 
  Code project and link to the individual project front pages on 
  the wiki, very much as we do now at test.vimperator.org. The 
  support project is an excellent example:

    http://code.google.com/p/support/

  * The wiki is *not* unfiltered. Only developers can edit the 
  pages, and comments can be enabled or disabled. I don't think 
  this is necessarilly a good thing (I have no problem with the 
  bulk of the site being a user-editable wiki), it's just the 
  fact of the matter.

That being said, I'm not averse to maintaining a separate 
website for Vimperator Labs, or whatever. I like the news feed 
and the general customizability. But I think that it needs to 
have a very specific aim and scope. Trying to hide the parts 
that live at Google Code is plainly unhelpful, and at the same 
time obfuscatory and time consuming. Developers know and like 
Google Code. We know how to navigate it, we have usage habits 
already ingrained.

I very quickly tire of trying to find source code, license 
information, and issue trackers for projects. I still haven't 
gotten used to the old vimperator.org (it takes *way* too may 
clicks just to find the git checkout URI or the bug tracker for 
a particular project, and they're not easy to find. When a 
project points me to a Google Code page, I don't have this 
problem. I know where everything is, and it's all rather easy to 
find, even if I didn't.

If we do keep the website, here's what I'd like to see:

  1. A front page with an overview of Vimperator Labs and our 
  projects.

  2. The current news feed.

  3. A page for each of the projects.

  4. A link to our Google Code project both on the front page and 
  on each of the project pages.

  5. A summary for each project, a mention of the latest release 
  and development versions.

  6. A small, pithy screenshot for each project, possibly 
  thumbnails for other screenshots.

Beyond that, I the scope of the website is debatable. There are 
some problems that arise even at this point. The first is that 
you're the only one with access to the Google Site, which means 
that the rest of can't, i.e., fix typos and outdated 
information, post news items, etc., all of which have been the 
norm heretofore. The Google Code wiki doesn't have this issue. 
That's a major consideration for me, as far as deciding how to 
divide the rest of the site between the two places.

We'll need at least the following pages, each of which might 
arguably live in the Google Code wiki.

  * FAQ
  * Bugs ? Link to report a bug, link to search for bugs, mention 
    the project:foo search params, please search before you 
    report.
  * Plugins/color schemes ? As above.
  * Developer info ? How to submit patches, general coding 
    practices, Mercurial usage tips, documentation tips; could 
    probably have several sub-categories, should probably be 
    global to all projects.

The Wiki will probably have to largely duplicate the info on the 
vimperator.org page at any rate.

The first thing I think we should do is decide what will 
definately live on the Google Code wiki, setup the Wiki's front 
page and side bar, and decide what to do about vimperator.org 
from there.

-- 
Kris Maglione

What is freedom of expression?  Without the freedom to offend, it
ceases to exist.
	--Salman Rushdie


From dougkearns at gmail.com  Wed Oct  7 22:04:38 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 16:04:38 +1100
Subject: [Vimperator] A new modal browser
In-Reply-To: <20090907034054.GA8027@jg.domain_not_set.invalid>
References: <880dece00909061259o5594e240v13766ae38b341035@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090907005026.GB5009@jg.domain_not_set.invalid>
	<644fc65e0909061920p69967df5n36149543120aacdf@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090907034054.GA8027@jg.domain_not_set.invalid>
Message-ID: <644fc65e0910072204rca59da7vdcba1f1d48cb6cea@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:

> For what it's worth, when the groundwork is more mature, I may work on
> implementing something similar to Vimperator on Sqeme. I'm not interested in
> Minno, because I can't stand Conkeror/Emacs.

Actually Minno's aim is, as I understand it, to develop a toolkit for
building Vimperator/Conkeror style browsers.  It seems much more
generic than a reimplementation of Conkeror.

Doug

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Wed Oct  7 22:28:49 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 01:28:49 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] A new modal browser
In-Reply-To: <644fc65e0910072204rca59da7vdcba1f1d48cb6cea@mail.gmail.com>
References: <880dece00909061259o5594e240v13766ae38b341035@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090907005026.GB5009@jg.domain_not_set.invalid>
	<644fc65e0909061920p69967df5n36149543120aacdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090907034054.GA8027@jg.domain_not_set.invalid>
	<644fc65e0910072204rca59da7vdcba1f1d48cb6cea@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091008052849.GS31402@jg>

On Thu, Oct 08, 2009 at 04:04:38PM +1100, Doug Kearns wrote:
>On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> For what it's worth, when the groundwork is more mature, I may work on
>> implementing something similar to Vimperator on Sqeme. I'm not interested in
>> Minno, because I can't stand Conkeror/Emacs.
>
>Actually Minno's aim is, as I understand it, to develop a toolkit for
>building Vimperator/Conkeror style browsers.  It seems much more
>generic than a reimplementation of Conkeror.

According to their front page,

>Minno aims to be a Scheme/WebKit-based reimplementation of the 
>excellent Mozilla-based web browser Conkeror. 

As it happens, I just read over their site yesterday, and they 
definitely seem to have some good ideas. I was going to post to 
their list to see where our goals might overlap and see if we 
can work together on a common core. I don't expect that I'll 
much like their user interface or input model, in the end.

-- 
Kris Maglione

A smart terminal is not a smartass terminal, but rather a terminal you
can educate.
	-- Rob Pike


From dpb at driftaway.org  Thu Oct  8 00:47:24 2009
From: dpb at driftaway.org (Daniel Bainton)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 10:47:24 +0300
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <20091008002442.GR31402@jg>
References: <4AC7A508.8060400@vimperator.org>
	<4AC882DF.2020906@vimperator.org> 
	<644fc65e0910040814m1bad6354k6b3654523a0ecbb8@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4AC8D2F9.4070702@vimperator.org>
	<644fc65e0910070454v2620954as88d19c9e106cee2c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<aaae92100910070512y1145b013m7687a53b1a77e4@mail.gmail.com> 
	<644fc65e0910070632g53a0d0fcj1fbdebc01380dc32@mail.gmail.com> 
	<aaae92100910070714s771d9bc5qe76c63ab3fcd6c9c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<644fc65e0910070811r646324d4ybb21ff1c85a3a27c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20091008002442.GR31402@jg>
Message-ID: <dd9711230910080047h3523eadau1c747bd7d62cd685@mail.gmail.com>

I'm mostly with Kris on this issue, the iframes to Google Code are horrible.


2009/10/8 Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com>:
> Beyond that, I the scope of the website is debatable. There are some
> problems that arise even at this point. The first is that you're the only
> one with access to the Google Site, which means that the rest of can't,
> i.e., fix typos and outdated information, post news items, etc., all of
> which have been the norm heretofore. The Google Code wiki doesn't have this
> issue. That's a major consideration for me, as far as deciding how to divide
> the rest of the site between the two places.

Martin can give edit access to the Site to anyone with a google
account, so he's not the only one with access. I already have access
to it, he'll probably give access to all the developers.

--
Daniel

From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Thu Oct  8 02:23:04 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 11:23:04 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <20091008002442.GR31402@jg>
References: <4AC7A508.8060400@vimperator.org> <4AC882DF.2020906@vimperator.org>
	<644fc65e0910040814m1bad6354k6b3654523a0ecbb8@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AC8D2F9.4070702@vimperator.org>
	<644fc65e0910070454v2620954as88d19c9e106cee2c@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaae92100910070512y1145b013m7687a53b1a77e4@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0910070632g53a0d0fcj1fbdebc01380dc32@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaae92100910070714s771d9bc5qe76c63ab3fcd6c9c@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0910070811r646324d4ybb21ff1c85a3a27c@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091008002442.GR31402@jg>
Message-ID: <aaae92100910080223x3bf64cfued206bf267050093@mail.gmail.com>

I agree that the iframes really are not perfect, therefore I suggest
this idea which was floating around for some days now in my head (and
is quite similar to Kris' suggestions):

Look at:

http://sites.google.com/a/vimperator.org/www/muttator

I just moved the bugs and scripts as a simple section to the end of
the page, providing just links to do the most common tasks.
In that case though, I think opening those links in a new window is
maybe a good idea.

The other pages (vimperator, xulmus) should be done the same way.

> The Wiki will probably have to largely duplicate the info on the vimperator.org page at any rate.

No! The Wiki does not need to have all those stuff, that's what the
vimperator.org pages are for (those
also have a "developer info" page, where everything on how to work on
vimperator labs projects
is explained.

The wiki is meant for those things which will be often edited by users, like:
* FAQ
* Useful autocommands
* Incompatible extensions
* Useful Firefox about:config options
etc.

All those things will have a separate wiki page. Of course you might
argue that "developer info"
should also be a wiki page, but if it is, then it shouldn't be on the
google sites page. So there
should not be duplicate content.

And yes, I can give everybody who wants to help out with the google
sites page access, just
drop me a not, and I'll add you.

From dpb at driftaway.org  Thu Oct  8 02:55:24 2009
From: dpb at driftaway.org (Daniel Bainton)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 12:55:24 +0300
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <aaae92100910080223x3bf64cfued206bf267050093@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AC7A508.8060400@vimperator.org>
	<644fc65e0910040814m1bad6354k6b3654523a0ecbb8@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4AC8D2F9.4070702@vimperator.org>
	<644fc65e0910070454v2620954as88d19c9e106cee2c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<aaae92100910070512y1145b013m7687a53b1a77e4@mail.gmail.com> 
	<644fc65e0910070632g53a0d0fcj1fbdebc01380dc32@mail.gmail.com> 
	<aaae92100910070714s771d9bc5qe76c63ab3fcd6c9c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<644fc65e0910070811r646324d4ybb21ff1c85a3a27c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20091008002442.GR31402@jg>
	<aaae92100910080223x3bf64cfued206bf267050093@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dd9711230910080255s2b38d00br927652b6e1f68758@mail.gmail.com>

2009/10/8 Stubenschrott, Martin <maxauthority at vimperator.org>:
> I agree that the iframes really are not perfect, therefore I suggest
> this idea which was floating around for some days now in my head (and
> is quite similar to Kris' suggestions):
>
> Look at:
>
> http://sites.google.com/a/vimperator.org/www/muttator
>
> I just moved the bugs and scripts as a simple section to the end of
> the page, providing just links to do the most common tasks.
> In that case though, I think opening those links in a new window is
> maybe a good idea.
>
> The other pages (vimperator, xulmus) should be done the same way.
>
>> The Wiki will probably have to largely duplicate the info on the vimperator.org page at any rate.
>
> No! The Wiki does not need to have all those stuff, that's what the
> vimperator.org pages are for (those
> also have a "developer info" page, where everything on how to work on
> vimperator labs projects
> is explained.
>
> The wiki is meant for those things which will be often edited by users, like:
> * FAQ
> * Useful autocommands
> * Incompatible extensions
> * Useful Firefox about:config options
> etc.
>
> All those things will have a separate wiki page. Of course you might
> argue that "developer info"
> should also be a wiki page, but if it is, then it shouldn't be on the
> google sites page. So there
> should not be duplicate content.
>
> And yes, I can give everybody who wants to help out with the google
> sites page access, just
> drop me a not, and I'll add you.


Hi Martin,

IMO the Downloads tab in the google code page is not needed, it just
confuses people. Could you hide the tab?

--
Daniel

From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Thu Oct  8 03:27:39 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 12:27:39 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <dd9711230910080255s2b38d00br927652b6e1f68758@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AC7A508.8060400@vimperator.org> <4AC8D2F9.4070702@vimperator.org>
	<644fc65e0910070454v2620954as88d19c9e106cee2c@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaae92100910070512y1145b013m7687a53b1a77e4@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0910070632g53a0d0fcj1fbdebc01380dc32@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaae92100910070714s771d9bc5qe76c63ab3fcd6c9c@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0910070811r646324d4ybb21ff1c85a3a27c@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091008002442.GR31402@jg>
	<aaae92100910080223x3bf64cfued206bf267050093@mail.gmail.com>
	<dd9711230910080255s2b38d00br927652b6e1f68758@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aaae92100910080327x76b86492g7727712a13b5744e@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Daniel Bainton <dpb at driftaway.org> wrote:
> IMO the Downloads tab in the google code page is not needed, it just
> confuses people. Could you hide the tab?

Done (as I and Kris also agree on that).
For now i have left the "Featured" label of the download so it appears
on the front
page, but since the download doesn't work properly anyway (in terms of
triggering
the install in firefox), it might be good to remove that as well.
But then people could not download vimperator at all, when coming to the GC
page and thinking that was vimperator's homepage.

From dpb at driftaway.org  Thu Oct  8 03:31:11 2009
From: dpb at driftaway.org (Daniel Bainton)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 13:31:11 +0300
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <aaae92100910080327x76b86492g7727712a13b5744e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AC7A508.8060400@vimperator.org>
	<644fc65e0910070454v2620954as88d19c9e106cee2c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<aaae92100910070512y1145b013m7687a53b1a77e4@mail.gmail.com> 
	<644fc65e0910070632g53a0d0fcj1fbdebc01380dc32@mail.gmail.com> 
	<aaae92100910070714s771d9bc5qe76c63ab3fcd6c9c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<644fc65e0910070811r646324d4ybb21ff1c85a3a27c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20091008002442.GR31402@jg>
	<aaae92100910080223x3bf64cfued206bf267050093@mail.gmail.com> 
	<dd9711230910080255s2b38d00br927652b6e1f68758@mail.gmail.com> 
	<aaae92100910080327x76b86492g7727712a13b5744e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dd9711230910080331l4a4b78d6r49f42a79f049542f@mail.gmail.com>

2009/10/8 Stubenschrott, Martin <maxauthority at vimperator.org>:
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Daniel Bainton <dpb at driftaway.org> wrote:
>> IMO the Downloads tab in the google code page is not needed, it just
>> confuses people. Could you hide the tab?
>
> Done (as I and Kris also agree on that).
> For now i have left the "Featured" label of the download so it appears
> on the front
> page, but since the download doesn't work properly anyway (in terms of
> triggering
> the install in firefox), it might be good to remove that as well.
> But then people could not download vimperator at all, when coming to the GC
> page and thinking that was vimperator's homepage.

You can add some download link to the homepage there. ;)

--
Daniel

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Thu Oct  8 13:32:50 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 16:32:50 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <aaae92100910080327x76b86492g7727712a13b5744e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AC8D2F9.4070702@vimperator.org>
	<644fc65e0910070454v2620954as88d19c9e106cee2c@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaae92100910070512y1145b013m7687a53b1a77e4@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0910070632g53a0d0fcj1fbdebc01380dc32@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaae92100910070714s771d9bc5qe76c63ab3fcd6c9c@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0910070811r646324d4ybb21ff1c85a3a27c@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091008002442.GR31402@jg>
	<aaae92100910080223x3bf64cfued206bf267050093@mail.gmail.com>
	<dd9711230910080255s2b38d00br927652b6e1f68758@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaae92100910080327x76b86492g7727712a13b5744e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091008203250.GT31402@jg>

On Thu, Oct 08, 2009 at 12:27:39PM +0200, Stubenschrott, Martin wrote:
>Done (as I and Kris also agree on that).  For now i have left 
>the "Featured" label of the download so it appears on the front 
>page, but since the download doesn't work properly anyway (in 
>terms of triggering the install in firefox), it might be good 
>to remove that as well.

I still think we should add a gadget to scrub the featured 
downloads section and InstallTrigger them. That should be quite 
simple to write and maintain. And I think we really need AMO 
links, even if one per project.

-- 
Kris Maglione

For the time being, programming is a consumer job, assembly line
coding is the norm, and what little exciting stuff is being performed
is not going to make it compared to the mass-marketed crap sold by
those who think they can surf on the previous half-century's worth of
inventions forever.
	--Eric Naggum


From twolusky at aol.com  Thu Oct  8 14:10:35 2009
From: twolusky at aol.com (twolusky at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 17:10:35 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] unistall assist
Message-ID: <8CC1672E9E9D645-4674-16D4@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com>

You say to uninstall type :addons and removing/disabling it, but how and where do you type this?? ?


Tony Wolusky
-------------- next part --------------
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From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Thu Oct  8 15:00:37 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2009 00:00:37 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] unistall assist
In-Reply-To: <8CC1672E9E9D645-4674-16D4@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CC1672E9E9D645-4674-16D4@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4ACE6105.6080303@vimperator.org>

On 10/08/2009 11:10 PM, twolusky at aol.com wrote:

> You say to uninstall type :addons and removing/disabling it, but how and
> where do you type this?   


Just type ALL characters give in that order. So first a ":", then a "a",
then a "d" etc. and press <Enter> to execute that command.

best regards and thanks for giving vimperator a try,

Martin

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Thu Oct  8 15:07:40 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 18:07:40 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] unistall assist
In-Reply-To: <4ACE6105.6080303@vimperator.org>
References: <8CC1672E9E9D645-4674-16D4@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com>
	<4ACE6105.6080303@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091008220739.GU31402@jg>

On Fri, Oct 09, 2009 at 12:00:37AM +0200, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>On 10/08/2009 11:10 PM, twolusky at aol.com wrote:
>> You say to uninstall type :addons and removing/disabling it, but how and
>> where do you type this?   
>
>Just type ALL characters give in that order. So first a ":", then a "a",
>then a "d" etc. and press <Enter> to execute that command.

I could have sworn I updated that intro page to make that clear. 
At any rate, it should be changed to,

   :extdelete Vimperator

or

   :extdisable Vimperator

-- 
Kris Maglione

For a sucessful technology, honesty must take precedence over public
relations for nature cannot be fooled.
	--Richard Feynman


From dougkearns at gmail.com  Thu Oct  8 23:51:44 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 17:51:44 +1100
Subject: [Vimperator] A new modal browser
In-Reply-To: <20091008052849.GS31402@jg>
References: <880dece00909061259o5594e240v13766ae38b341035@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090907005026.GB5009@jg.domain_not_set.invalid>
	<644fc65e0909061920p69967df5n36149543120aacdf@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090907034054.GA8027@jg.domain_not_set.invalid>
	<644fc65e0910072204rca59da7vdcba1f1d48cb6cea@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20091008052849.GS31402@jg>
Message-ID: <644fc65e0910082351q4cc6a8c8yfcc0970e179a46bf@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:

> According to their front page,
>
>> Minno aims to be a Scheme/WebKit-based reimplementation of the excellent
>> Mozilla-based web browser Conkeror.

I've suggested they alter that and I think they are going to do so.

> As it happens, I just read over their site yesterday, and they definitely
> seem to have some good ideas. I was going to post to their list to see where
> our goals might overlap and see if we can work together on a common core. I
> don't expect that I'll much like their user interface or input model, in the
> end.

It's probably best to jump on #minno on Freenode.  The main developer
(nicktastic) is actively seeking input regarding UI differences at the
moment so as to see if supporting both is possible.  There's even been
some names for the Vi - Emacs UI abstraction bandied about. :)

Doug

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Fri Oct  9 00:24:43 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2009 09:24:43 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] unistall assist
In-Reply-To: <20091008220739.GU31402@jg>
References: <8CC1672E9E9D645-4674-16D4@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com>	<4ACE6105.6080303@vimperator.org>
	<20091008220739.GU31402@jg>
Message-ID: <4ACEE53B.2070004@vimperator.org>

On 10/09/2009 12:07 AM, Kris Maglione wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 09, 2009 at 12:00:37AM +0200, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>>On 10/08/2009 11:10 PM, twolusky at aol.com wrote:
>>> You say to uninstall type :addons and removing/disabling it, but how and
>>> where do you type this?   
>>
>>Just type ALL characters give in that order. So first a ":", then a "a",
>>then a "d" etc. and press <Enter> to execute that command.
> 
> I could have sworn I updated that intro page to make that clear. 
> At any rate, it should be changed to,
> 
>    :extdelete Vimperator
> 
> or
> 
>    :extdisable Vimperator


Since :ext* commands were only added after 2.1, those intro text
should only be updated when we finally do release 2.2 - Doug? :)

From rogutes at googlemail.com  Fri Oct  9 10:52:09 2009
From: rogutes at googlemail.com (=?utf-8?Q?Rogut=C4=97s?= Sparnuotos)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 20:52:09 +0300
Subject: [Vimperator] git master has hint regressions; fix before v2.2?
Message-ID: <20091009175209.GA1570@urvas>

1. Following hints on input boxes prepends 'null' to them since:
      commit 01adfa8b22cba88bd1bbaac735ea9c2a4789e601
      Author: Doug Kearns <dougkearns at gmail.com>
      Date:   Sun Sep 6 03:25:32 2009 +1000

          Quick fix for hints broken in 50681c8dda1e2f35c9f15a3221913f3bf8e0927f.
          
          The first hint was always being selected.


2. Hint position is broken on some pages since:
      commit 4d2cb7bc61897b72ef9ff6d106d1467b4182c0bc
      Author: Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com>
      Date:   Fri Aug 28 13:04:26 2009 -0400

          Fix hints with body { position: relative; }

For an example, try following some hints on http://www.w3.org/Consortium
with and without this commit.


-- 
--  Rogut?s Sparnuotos

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Fri Oct  9 11:06:22 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 14:06:22 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] git master has hint regressions; fix before v2.2?
In-Reply-To: <20091009175209.GA1570@urvas>
References: <20091009175209.GA1570@urvas>
Message-ID: <20091009180622.GW31402@jg>

On Fri, Oct 09, 2009 at 08:52:09PM +0300, Rogut?s Sparnuotos wrote:
>1. Following hints on input boxes prepends 'null' to them since:
>2. Hint position is broken on some pages since:

We don't use git anymore. These are already fixed.

-- 
Kris Maglione

When in doubt, use brute force.
	--Ken Thompson


From rogutes at googlemail.com  Fri Oct  9 11:33:30 2009
From: rogutes at googlemail.com (=?utf-8?Q?Rogut=C4=97s?= Sparnuotos)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 21:33:30 +0300
Subject: [Vimperator] git master has hint regressions; fix before v2.2?
In-Reply-To: <20091009180622.GW31402@jg>
References: <20091009175209.GA1570@urvas>
 <20091009180622.GW31402@jg>
Message-ID: <20091009183330.GA5231@urvas>

Kris Maglione (2009-10-09 14:06):
> On Fri, Oct 09, 2009 at 08:52:09PM +0300, Rogut?s Sparnuotos wrote:
> >1. Following hints on input boxes prepends 'null' to them since:
> >2. Hint position is broken on some pages since:
> 
> We don't use git anymore. These are already fixed.

Oh, and I thought I was following this mailing list. I guess
I've misfollowed somewhere... Thanks - good to see this fixed.

-- 
--  Rogut?s Sparnuotos

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Fri Oct  9 12:15:32 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 15:15:32 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] git master has hint regressions; fix before v2.2?
In-Reply-To: <20091009183330.GA5231@urvas>
References: <20091009175209.GA1570@urvas> <20091009180622.GW31402@jg>
	<20091009183330.GA5231@urvas>
Message-ID: <20091009191532.GX31402@jg>

On Fri, Oct 09, 2009 at 09:33:30PM +0300, Rogut?s Sparnuotos wrote:
>Kris Maglione (2009-10-09 14:06):
>> On Fri, Oct 09, 2009 at 08:52:09PM +0300, Rogut?s Sparnuotos wrote:
>> >1. Following hints on input boxes prepends 'null' to them since:
>> >2. Hint position is broken on some pages since:
>> 
>> We don't use git anymore. These are already fixed.
>
>Oh, and I thought I was following this mailing list. I guess
>I've misfollowed somewhere... Thanks - good to see this fixed.

Don't worry, the changeover announcement was probably drowned 
out by our arguments and the web site still hasn't been updated. 
Thanks for the reports.

-- 
Kris Maglione

Amateur programmers think there are 1000 bytes in a kilobyte; Real
Programmers think there are 1024 meters in a kilometer.


From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sun Oct 11 05:09:46 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 14:09:46 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <4AD1CB0A.7010509@vimperator.org>

Ok, I have finally finished the new idea about project specific pages.

What do you think about:

http://test.vimperator.org/vimperator

The only think left to decide is, where to put the Wiki link best.
Preferably it would be on a per-project basis which just lists
the relevant wiki issues. I am not sure if having 3 "Wiki" entries
in the navigation menu is a good idea though.

Maybe one can properly integrate the wiki link into the project page
itself, but I am not sure whether people see it, if it is just "hidden"
in a bunch of other text. And I am not sure either if the link
satisfies adding another <h2> to that page.

Ideas?

--
Martin

PS: When this issue is solved, I'll do the muttator and xulmus pages
just like the vimperator one, and switch test.vimperator.org to
www.vimperator.org

PPS: The "Contact" page is quite simple right now. For whom of the 
devs (Kris, Doug, Daniel, Ted) it's ok to move it to "About" and
descibe each role with a few sentences in a nice way, like:

=======================================================================|
| Doug Kearns          | Our australian guy with the wisdom            |
| dougkearns at gmail.com | of 35 (?) years. Takes documenting everything |
| IRC: thesnowdog      | in detail very seriously, and cares about     |
|                      | fine tuning every detail of Vimperator        |
=======================================================================|

PPPS: Doug and Kris should have write access to Google sites now, if
they want to proof read things or change other parts.

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sun Oct 11 10:06:43 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 19:06:43 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] google groups
Message-ID: <4AD210A3.8050500@vimperator.org>

Hi,

I have now created a google groups mailing list for vimperator labs:
http://groups.google.com/group/vimperator-labs?lnk=

The question is, whether:
a) We move vimperator at mozdev.org there
or
b) Just make the google groups one a mirror
or
c) mozdev is good enough anyway, so really no need
to create another mailing list.

Both have their advantages and disadvantages.

Suggestions?

Martin

From dpb at driftaway.org  Sun Oct 11 10:14:48 2009
From: dpb at driftaway.org (Daniel Bainton)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 20:14:48 +0300
Subject: [Vimperator] google groups
In-Reply-To: <4AD210A3.8050500@vimperator.org>
References: <4AD210A3.8050500@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <dd9711230910111014p51242c55l6132429a1f49aae1@mail.gmail.com>

2009/10/11 Martin Stubenschrott <stubenschrott at vimperator.org>:
> Hi,
>
> I have now created a google groups mailing list for vimperator labs:
> http://groups.google.com/group/vimperator-labs?lnk=
>
> The question is, whether:
> a) We move vimperator at mozdev.org there
> or
> b) Just make the google groups one a mirror
> or
> c) mozdev is good enough anyway, so really no need
> to create another mailing list.
>
> Both have their advantages and disadvantages.
>
> Suggestions?

I'd go with a). Also remember that we have a muttator at mozdev.org too,
IMO they should be combined to just the one vimperator-labs group.

--
Daniel

From ted at tedpavlic.com  Sun Oct 11 12:37:15 2009
From: ted at tedpavlic.com (Ted Pavlic)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 15:37:15 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] google groups
In-Reply-To: <dd9711230910111014p51242c55l6132429a1f49aae1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AD210A3.8050500@vimperator.org>
	<dd9711230910111014p51242c55l6132429a1f49aae1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AD233EB.8040801@tedpavlic.com>

>> a) We move vimperator at mozdev.org there
>> or
>> b) Just make the google groups one a mirror
>> or
>> c) mozdev is good enough anyway, so really no need
>> to create another mailing list.
> I'd go with a). Also remember that we have a muttator at mozdev.org too,
> IMO they should be combined to just the one vimperator-labs group.

In that case, would vimperator readers just have to mute all muttator 
conversations? (and vice versa)

It seems like having separate vimp/mutt lists is OK. After all, vim has 
a "use" list, an "announce" list, a "dev" list, and a "mac" list (and 
for a while, they had an "experiment" list during their move to Google 
Groups). It's fine to make them related in some way, but do all messages 
have to go into one group?

--Ted

-- 
Ted Pavlic <ted at tedpavlic.com>

   Please visit my 2009 d'Feet ALS walk page:
         http://web.alsa.org/goto/tedp
   My family appreciates your support in the fight to defeat ALS.

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sun Oct 11 12:39:26 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 15:39:26 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] google groups
In-Reply-To: <4AD210A3.8050500@vimperator.org>
References: <4AD210A3.8050500@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091011193926.GY31402@jg>

On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 07:06:43PM +0200, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>The question is, whether:
>a) We move vimperator at mozdev.org there

+1. Good spam filtering. Good web UI. Users can post from the 
web. Can autosubscribe existing users.

>b) Just make the google groups one a mirror

Doable, but users can't post from the web. No spam filtering.

>c) mozdev is good enough anyway, so really no need
>to create another mailing list.

Mozdev is kind of a mess. Mailman is confusing, the Mailman web 
UI is hidden now. Mailman is evil (stores plain text passwords, 
mails them every Mailman Day). I'm not a fan of Mailman.

-- 
Kris Maglione

FAITH, n.  Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks
without knowledge, of things without parallel.
	--Ambrose Bierce


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sun Oct 11 12:41:37 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 15:41:37 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] google groups
In-Reply-To: <4AD233EB.8040801@tedpavlic.com>
References: <4AD210A3.8050500@vimperator.org>
	<dd9711230910111014p51242c55l6132429a1f49aae1@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AD233EB.8040801@tedpavlic.com>
Message-ID: <20091011194137.GZ31402@jg>

On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 03:37:15PM -0400, Ted Pavlic wrote:
> In that case, would vimperator readers just have to mute all muttator  
> conversations? (and vice versa)

There are no muttator users.

-- 
Kris Maglione

When in doubt, use brute force.
	--Ken Thompson


From diendien at gmail.com  Sun Oct 11 12:47:16 2009
From: diendien at gmail.com (Dien Nguyen)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 12:47:16 -0700
Subject: [Vimperator] google groups
In-Reply-To: <20091011194137.GZ31402@jg>
References: <4AD210A3.8050500@vimperator.org>	<dd9711230910111014p51242c55l6132429a1f49aae1@mail.gmail.com>	<4AD233EB.8040801@tedpavlic.com>
	<20091011194137.GZ31402@jg>
Message-ID: <4AD23644.4040809@gmail.com>

On 10/11/2009 12:41 PM, Kris Maglione wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 03:37:15PM -0400, Ted Pavlic wrote:
>> In that case, would vimperator readers just have to mute all 
>> muttator  conversations? (and vice versa)
>
> There are no muttator users.
>
I use muttator and enjoy it very much! I thought I was on the mailing 
list. No wonder it's been so quiet...

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sun Oct 11 12:51:46 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 15:51:46 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] google groups
In-Reply-To: <4AD23644.4040809@gmail.com>
References: <4AD210A3.8050500@vimperator.org>
	<dd9711230910111014p51242c55l6132429a1f49aae1@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AD233EB.8040801@tedpavlic.com> <20091011194137.GZ31402@jg>
	<4AD23644.4040809@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091011195146.GA31402@jg>

On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 12:47:16PM -0700, Dien Nguyen wrote:
> On 10/11/2009 12:41 PM, Kris Maglione wrote:
>> On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 03:37:15PM -0400, Ted Pavlic wrote:
>>> In that case, would vimperator readers just have to mute all  
>>> muttator  conversations? (and vice versa)
>>
>> There are no muttator users.
>>
> I use muttator and enjoy it very much! I thought I was on the mailing  
> list. No wonder it's been so quiet...

It's an inside joke.

-- 
Kris Maglione

When you start off by telling those who disagree with you that they
are not merely in error but in sin, how much of a dialogue do you
expect?
	--Thomas Sowell


From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sun Oct 11 14:10:52 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 23:10:52 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] google groups
In-Reply-To: <4AD23644.4040809@gmail.com>
References: <4AD210A3.8050500@vimperator.org>	<dd9711230910111014p51242c55l6132429a1f49aae1@mail.gmail.com>	<4AD233EB.8040801@tedpavlic.com>	<20091011194137.GZ31402@jg>
	<4AD23644.4040809@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AD249DC.7080105@vimperator.org>

On 10/11/2009 09:47 PM, Dien Nguyen wrote:

>> There are no muttator users.

:)

There are 37 people on the muttator mailing list, and 359 on the vimperator one.
Maybe we really have 10% as many muttator users as vimperator ones? I doubt
it, as it's a far less polished product.

> I use muttator and enjoy it very much! I thought I was on the mailing 
> list. No wonder it's been so quiet...


It's quite, because on the vimperator mailing list probably 7-10 people
make 95% of the noise, and those are mostly vimperator users apart
from me, but I hardly post any issues on the mailing list anyway.

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sun Oct 11 14:14:08 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 23:14:08 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] google groups
In-Reply-To: <dd9711230910111014p51242c55l6132429a1f49aae1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AD210A3.8050500@vimperator.org>
	<dd9711230910111014p51242c55l6132429a1f49aae1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AD24AA0.2030200@vimperator.org>

On 10/11/2009 07:14 PM, Daniel Bainton wrote:

> I'd go with a). Also remember that we have a muttator at mozdev.org too,
> IMO they should be combined to just the one vimperator-labs group.


That's actually the biggest point AGAINST using the vimperator-labs
group, but i guess i should just make a "vimperator" and a "muttator"
google group.

Unfortunately while I can mass subscribe people on the google group,
I can't get a full list of subscribers from the vimperator/muttator
mozdev groups.

On the other hand, people should probably subscribe manually anyway,
since otherwise they will keep on accidentily posting to vimp at mozdev.

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sun Oct 11 14:20:20 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 17:20:20 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] google groups
In-Reply-To: <4AD24AA0.2030200@vimperator.org>
References: <4AD210A3.8050500@vimperator.org>
	<dd9711230910111014p51242c55l6132429a1f49aae1@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AD24AA0.2030200@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091011212020.GB31402@jg>

On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 11:14:08PM +0200, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>Unfortunately while I can mass subscribe people on the google group,
>I can't get a full list of subscribers from the vimperator/muttator
>mozdev groups.

That's surprising. I'm sure they'll give you one if you ask, but 
I can't imagine that you can't get it from the Mailman UI.

>On the other hand, people should probably subscribe manually anyway,
>since otherwise they will keep on accidentily posting to vimp at mozdev.

Can't you setup a bounce message?

-- 
Kris Maglione

Microsoft is not the answer.  Microsoft is the question.  NO is the
answer.
	--Eric Naggum


From stepnem at gmail.com  Sun Oct 11 14:53:28 2009
From: stepnem at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?xaB0xJtww6FuIE7Em21lYw==?=)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 23:53:28 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH--TRIVIAL] Fix wording of 'cdpath' and
	misplacement of	'private'
Message-ID: <20091011215328.GA31303@headley>

# HG changeset patch
# User ?t?p?n N?mec <stepnem at gmail.com>
# Date 1255295910 -7200
# Node ID 29958391d0f5a616454a42f492a2014132b1d954
# Parent  83afb918917760df5183e1a1503ec22bf053199c
options.txt: Fix wording of 'cdpath' and misplacement of 'private'.

diff --git a/vimperator/locale/en-US/options.txt b/vimperator/locale/en-US/options.txt
--- a/vimperator/locale/en-US/options.txt
+++ b/vimperator/locale/en-US/options.txt
@@ -218,8 +218,8 @@ ____
 ||'cdpath' 'cd'|| string (default: equivalent to _$CDPATH_ or ",,")
 ____
 List of directories searched when executing the [c]:cd[c] command. This is
-only used for relative paths if an absolute path is specified then the option
-is ignored.
+only used for relative paths; for absolute paths the option is ignored. An
+empty string between two commas (,,) means to search in the current directory.
 ____
 
 
@@ -457,17 +457,6 @@ Number of Ex commands and search pattern
 ____
 
 
-|\'noprivate'| |\'private'| +
-||'private'|| boolean (default: off)
-____
-Set the "private browsing" option. In private browsing mode history, cache
-files, cookies, form data, passwords, download list entries, local and URL
-marks, command-line history and macros are available only for the duration of
-the private browsing session and deleted when returning to normal browsing
-mode.
-____
-
-
 |\'nohls'| |\'nohlsearch'| |\'hls'| |\'hlsearch'| +
 ||'hlsearch' 'hls'|| boolean (default: off)
 ____
@@ -648,6 +637,17 @@ regular expressions and the link element
 ____
 
 
+|\'noprivate'| |\'private'| +
+||'private'|| boolean (default: off)
+____
+Set the "private browsing" option. In private browsing mode history, cache
+files, cookies, form data, passwords, download list entries, local and URL
+marks, command-line history and macros are available only for the duration of
+the private browsing session and deleted when returning to normal browsing
+mode.
+____
+
+
 |$VIMPERATOR_RUNTIME|
 |\'rtp'| |\'runtimepath'| +
 ||'runtimepath' 'rtp'|| stringlist
diff --git a/xulmus/locale/en-US/options.txt b/xulmus/locale/en-US/options.txt
--- a/xulmus/locale/en-US/options.txt
+++ b/xulmus/locale/en-US/options.txt
@@ -218,8 +218,8 @@ ____
 ||'cdpath' 'cd'|| string (default: equivalent to _$CDPATH_ or ",,")
 ____
 List of directories searched when executing the [c]:cd[c] command. This is
-only used for relative paths if an absolute path is specified then the option
-is ignored.
+only used for relative paths; for absolute paths the option is ignored. An
+empty string between two commas (,,) means to search in the current directory.
 ____
 
 

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sun Oct 11 15:07:13 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 00:07:13 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Doesn't load up anymore
In-Reply-To: <a9080b620910051143y5fc767b8teb01abfa48b04838@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a9080b620910051143y5fc767b8teb01abfa48b04838@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AD25711.1080706@vimperator.org>

On 10/05/2009 08:43 PM, Keyur Shah wrote:

> I also use Roboform, which i thought maybe causing the issue since it
> automatically installs an adapter in firefox, but i uninstalled roboform
> entireley, and no luck. is there any other logging that can be
> configured to see other errors?


You can :set! browser.dom.window.dump.enabled=true

and then start firefox (with vimperator) from the console, and look
through its output.

From stepnem at gmail.com  Sun Oct 11 15:25:38 2009
From: stepnem at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?xaB0xJtww6FuIE7Em21lYw==?=)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 00:25:38 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH--TRIVIAL] Fix wording of 'cdpath' and
	misplacement of	'private'
In-Reply-To: <20091011215328.GA31303@headley>
References: <20091011215328.GA31303@headley>
Message-ID: <20091011222537.GA31589@headley>

Ok, following Martin's recommendation (on IRC), I just pushed the patch
into the repo directly.
Sorry for the noise.

 ?t?p?n

From dougkearns at gmail.com  Sun Oct 11 23:04:05 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 17:04:05 +1100
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <4AD1CB0A.7010509@vimperator.org>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org> <4AD1CB0A.7010509@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <644fc65e0910112304r53c0982ct741eb8aa425b0018@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 11:09 PM, Martin Stubenschrott
<stubenschrott at vimperator.org> wrote:
> Ok, I have finally finished the new idea about project specific pages.
>
> What do you think about:
>
> http://test.vimperator.org/vimperator

I think that's much better, thank you.  However, all the compromise
around here is making me feel rather uneasy.

> The only think left to decide is, where to put the Wiki link best.
> Preferably it would be on a per-project basis which just lists
> the relevant wiki issues. I am not sure if having 3 "Wiki" entries
> in the navigation menu is a good idea though.

I think it is if they link to an application summary page in the wiki.

> Maybe one can properly integrate the wiki link into the project page
> itself, but I am not sure whether people see it, if it is just "hidden"
> in a bunch of other text. And I am not sure either if the link
> satisfies adding another <h2> to that page.
>
> Ideas?

I'd provide links to all the page subsections (anchors) and the wiki in
the navigation menu to the left.  "Scripts" and "Bugs" are two pages
down for me, as an example, whereas the navigation menu makes them
obvious immediately.  The menu is there, there's no reason not to use it
fully.

Doug

From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Mon Oct 12 00:36:08 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 09:36:08 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <644fc65e0910112304r53c0982ct741eb8aa425b0018@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org> <4AD1CB0A.7010509@vimperator.org>
	<644fc65e0910112304r53c0982ct741eb8aa425b0018@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aaae92100910120036l5f000567y53568d4c3fbbd3ef@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 8:04 AM, Doug Kearns <dougkearns at gmail.com> wrote:
>> The only think left to decide is, where to put the Wiki link best.
>> Preferably it would be on a per-project basis which just lists
>> the relevant wiki issues. I am not sure if having 3 "Wiki" entries
>> in the navigation menu is a good idea though.
>
> I think it is if they link to an application summary page in the wiki.

I integrated the wiki links in the continuous text now, hope it's easily
discoverable.

> I'd provide links to all the page subsections (anchors) and the wiki in
> the navigation menu to the left. ?"Scripts" and "Bugs" are two pages
> down for me, as an example, whereas the navigation menu makes them
> obvious immediately. ?The menu is there, there's no reason not to use it
> fully.

Hmm, sounds like an interesting idea, we still have to see if that doesn't
result in a menu overkill when muttator/xulmus are ready. All that would be
much easier if I could set the left menu to be always collapsed :(

From ted at tedpavlic.com  Mon Oct 12 12:12:53 2009
From: ted at tedpavlic.com (Ted Pavlic)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 15:12:53 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] google groups
In-Reply-To: <4AD233EB.8040801@tedpavlic.com>
References: <4AD210A3.8050500@vimperator.org>
	<dd9711230910111014p51242c55l6132429a1f49aae1@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AD233EB.8040801@tedpavlic.com>
Message-ID: <4AD37FB5.5020906@tedpavlic.com>

> It seems like having separate vimp/mutt lists is OK. After all, vim has
> a "use" list, an "announce" list, a "dev" list, and a "mac" list (and
> for a while, they had an "experiment" list during their move to Google
> Groups). It's fine to make them related in some way, but do all messages
> have to go into one group?

Actually, it might be nice to have a "commit" list. There are some other 
OSS projects (e.g., Skim, vim-latex) that automatically generate an 
e-mail summarizing each commit (seems to be popular on SourceForge-type 
projects).

A recent thread on the muttator list discusses how to pull down directly 
from the hg repo now that nightly builds aren't being generated. Users 
who pull down "nightlies" this way may not be comfortable with scrolling 
through the hg-log. However, they might like to know when new commits 
are available and might be interested in scrolling through them (to see 
when new features are introduced/fixed/etc.). In that case, the commit 
list acts like a sort of "mini-announcement" list. That might help in 
improving transparency for many vimperator end users.

--Ted


-- 
Ted Pavlic <ted at tedpavlic.com>

   Please visit my 2009 d'Feet ALS walk page:
         http://web.alsa.org/goto/tedp
   My family appreciates your support in the fight to defeat ALS.

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Mon Oct 12 16:25:51 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 01:25:51 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] we have moved!
Message-ID: <4AD3BAFF.9060908@vimperator.org>

Hi,

Finally I found time to update all project pages to a state which is good enough to entirely move
vimperator.org to google sites. This will also allow us to find missing pieces of information
as long as we have somehow access to the "old" vimperator.org - actually I wanted to redirect
trac.vimperator.org with a CNAME to the old server, but somehow this didn't seem to work.

Please report any issues you find, I am sure there are quite a few small things (like there
is no "Xulmus plugin" issue template on google code yet, but google sites links to that).

Any ideas what else we should put on the new vimperator.org web site?

--
Martin

PS: One bug I found is that only www.vimperator.org seems to have the correct favicon,
not the 301 redirected vimperator.org - so please use the former when posting a link
somewhere.

From ted at tedpavlic.com  Mon Oct 12 19:38:46 2009
From: ted at tedpavlic.com (Ted Pavlic)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 22:38:46 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] we have moved!
In-Reply-To: <4AD3BAFF.9060908@vimperator.org>
References: <4AD3BAFF.9060908@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <4AD3E836.8020601@tedpavlic.com>

> Finally I found time to update all project pages to a state which is
> good enough to entirely move vimperator.org to google sites. This
> will also allow us to find missing pieces of information as long as
> we have somehow access to the "old" vimperator.org - actually I
> wanted to redirect trac.vimperator.org with a CNAME to the old
> server, but somehow this didn't seem to work.

Did you make sure your CNAME line was terminated correctly? (i.e., 
period/no period) And did you make sure the virtual hosting (assuming 
HTTP/1.1) was reconfigured for the trac name? (also, did you make sure 
your local DNS didn't cache the old info?)

-- 
Ted Pavlic <ted at tedpavlic.com>

   Please visit my 2009 d'Feet ALS walk page:
         http://web.alsa.org/goto/tedp
   My family appreciates your support in the fight to defeat ALS.

From dpb at driftaway.org  Mon Oct 12 22:47:08 2009
From: dpb at driftaway.org (Daniel Bainton)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 08:47:08 +0300
Subject: [Vimperator] we have moved!
In-Reply-To: <4AD3BAFF.9060908@vimperator.org>
References: <4AD3BAFF.9060908@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <dd9711230910122247p30a7e6ecl55d2f4e07e8cc91@mail.gmail.com>

2009/10/13 Martin Stubenschrott <stubenschrott at vimperator.org>:
> Hi,
>
> Finally I found time to update all project pages to a state which is good enough to entirely move
> vimperator.org to google sites. This will also allow us to find missing pieces of information
> as long as we have somehow access to the "old" vimperator.org - actually I wanted to redirect
> trac.vimperator.org with a CNAME to the old server, but somehow this didn't seem to work.

That's because my web server forwarded any requests to
http://trac.vimperator.org to http://vimperator.org. I changed the
configuration now, so trac.vimperator.org works now. Please make sure
everything is there, the server will go down by the end of the month.

> PS: One bug I found is that only www.vimperator.org seems to have the correct favicon,
> not the 301 redirected vimperator.org - so please use the former when posting a link
> somewhere.

I see the favicon just fine.

--
Daniel

From dpb at driftaway.org  Tue Oct 13 02:02:51 2009
From: dpb at driftaway.org (Daniel Bainton)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 12:02:51 +0300
Subject: [Vimperator] we have moved!
In-Reply-To: <4AD3BAFF.9060908@vimperator.org>
References: <4AD3BAFF.9060908@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <dd9711230910130202n65d75545t694590b0981cd60f@mail.gmail.com>

2009/10/13 Martin Stubenschrott <stubenschrott at vimperator.org>:
> Hi,
>
> Finally I found time to update all project pages to a state which is good enough to entirely move
> vimperator.org to google sites. This will also allow us to find missing pieces of information
> as long as we have somehow access to the "old" vimperator.org - actually I wanted to redirect
> trac.vimperator.org with a CNAME to the old server, but somehow this didn't seem to work.
>
> Please report any issues you find, I am sure there are quite a few small things (like there
> is no "Xulmus plugin" issue template on google code yet, but google sites links to that).
>
> Any ideas what else we should put on the new vimperator.org web site?
>
> --
> Martin
>
> PS: One bug I found is that only www.vimperator.org seems to have the correct favicon,
> not the 301 redirected vimperator.org - so please use the former when posting a link
> somewhere.
> _______________________________________________
> Vimperator mailing list
> Vimperator at mozdev.org
> https://www.mozdev.org/mailman/listinfo/vimperator
>

To make a note: most of the patches and plugins are missing from the
google code tracker. People are asking about plugins, but they are
nowhere to be found.

--
Daniel

From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Tue Oct 13 02:36:14 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 11:36:14 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] we have moved!
In-Reply-To: <dd9711230910130202n65d75545t694590b0981cd60f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AD3BAFF.9060908@vimperator.org>
	<dd9711230910130202n65d75545t694590b0981cd60f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aaae92100910130236n7713d5l91ec5aa6280e175d@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Daniel Bainton <dpb at driftaway.org> wrote:
> To make a note: most of the patches and plugins are missing from the
> google code tracker. People are asking about plugins, but they are
> nowhere to be found.

Didn't think that so many people really do use the plugins. I'll add a note with
the link the old bug tracker on the page for now.

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Tue Oct 13 02:55:48 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 05:55:48 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] we have moved!
In-Reply-To: <dd9711230910130202n65d75545t694590b0981cd60f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AD3BAFF.9060908@vimperator.org>
	<dd9711230910130202n65d75545t694590b0981cd60f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a48155040910130255o557e20d7w84b1726fedf4513a@mail.gmail.com>

On 2009-10-13, Daniel Bainton <dpb at driftaway.org> wrote:
> To make a note: most of the patches and plugins are missing from the
> google code tracker. People are asking about plugins, but they are
> nowhere to be found.

I'll get them up as soon as I get a chance. Unfortunately, it took so
long to get a copy of them that I now have to write a scraper so that
I don't undo changes to the affected issues when I upload them.

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Tue Oct 13 17:25:26 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 20:25:26 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <4AD1CB0A.7010509@vimperator.org>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org> <4AD1CB0A.7010509@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091014002526.GC31402@jg>

On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 02:09:46PM +0200, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>Ok, I have finally finished the new idea about project specific pages.
>
>What do you think about:
>
>http://test.vimperator.org/vimperator
>
>The only think left to decide is, where to put the Wiki link best.
>Preferably it would be on a per-project basis which just lists
>the relevant wiki issues. I am not sure if having 3 "Wiki" entries
>in the navigation menu is a good idea though.

I think it's fine in the sidebar as long as it has an external 
link image after it: 

     http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/monobook/external.png

Having three is fine, so long as they point to different front 
pages. I agree with doug that they should also have anchor links 
to the subsections of the page, or, failing that, there should 
be some sort of TOC. I can't imagine that there's no way to 
collapse the subtrees of non-active pages.

The sidebar is too cluttered. The ads have to go, and the 
copyright should really be close to the bottom of the page, if 
present at all. It should also have a CC-BY link. If the ads 
stay, they should be above the content area, but I don't think 
they should stay. The pan handling is bad enough, and the site 
and project hosting are free.

Please don't use the WYSIWIG editor. Aside from generating 
generally bloated and atrocious HTML, it generates <br> tags 
rather than <p> elements, which breaks a lot of user CSS. Also, 
if we can't set global styles on <p> tags, they should all have 
style="max-width: 65ex; text-align: justify;".

-- 
Kris Maglione

Perspective is worth 80 IQ points.
	--Alan Kay


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Tue Oct 13 17:32:02 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 20:32:02 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <4AD1CB0A.7010509@vimperator.org>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org> <4AD1CB0A.7010509@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091014003202.GD31402@jg>

On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 02:09:46PM +0200, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>Ideas?

Oh, also, the _Warning_ bit should really disappear. The users 
see it the first time they run Vimperator. It doesn't really add 
anything to have it on the site. I've always found it awkward, 
even the first time I looked at the Mozdev page. It might be 
alright on the AMO page, but I don't really think it's necessary 
there either. A note about the changed UI, perhaps, but billed 
as a feature, not a danger.

-- 
Kris Maglione

The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to
change; the realist adjusts the sails.
	--William Arthur Ward


From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Wed Oct 14 01:24:39 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 10:24:39 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <20091014002526.GC31402@jg>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org> <4AD1CB0A.7010509@vimperator.org>
	<20091014002526.GC31402@jg>
Message-ID: <aaae92100910140124tb7d134dj7fdcdcea3ad7d2d4@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 2:25 AM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
> I think it's fine in the sidebar as long as it has an external link image
> after it:
> ? ?http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/monobook/external.png

I know what you mean, but you can't really do that with google sites' sidebar
navigation plugin.
You could only create that tree manually, but then you don't have collapsing,
nor is the current entry highlighted differently.

> Having three is fine, so long as they point to different front pages. I
> agree with doug that they should also have anchor links to the subsections
> of the page, or, failing that, there should be some sort of TOC.

A TOC like navigation would be fine, i'll see if I can add something which also
looks fine.

> I can't
> imagine that there's no way to collapse the subtrees of non-active pages.

You have write access, try to change that ;) I even remember that i found a
bug report or at least a forum entry about this somewhere with no solution.
It does remember if it is collapsed or expanded over restarts, but the
first-time
experience is expanded unfortunately :(

> The sidebar is too cluttered. The ads have to go, and the copyright should
> really be close to the bottom of the page, if present at all. It should also
> have a CC-BY link. If the ads stay, they should be above the content area,
> but I don't think they should stay. The pan handling is bad enough, and the
> site and project hosting are free.

I can't really change the position of copyright box, i could only move it below
the ads.

To the ads themselves: I will leave them for a a month or two and then decide
how much revenue they really bring. If it's 2$/month it's probably not
worth, but
if it's 50$/month it's sure one step further to my (unrealistic anyway, i know)
hope to make at least so much money with vimperator that I can trade my
full time to a part time job and work more on vimperator.

I did place them in the sidebar because I thought they are less intrusive there,
I could also test them in the content area, but don't know if google sites
even allows that, but with an google gadget probably).

Just 2 questions:
1.) What's a CC-BY link?
2.) What's "pan handling"?

> Please don't use the WYSIWIG editor. Aside from generating generally bloated
> and atrocious HTML, it generates <br> tags rather than <p> elements, which
> breaks a lot of user CSS. Also, if we can't set global styles on <p> tags,
> they should all have style="max-width: 65ex; text-align: justify;".

I usually agree with you here, but a few points:

1.) Having <p> on the first paragraph moves it down a few pixels, so the space
between the header and the text is larger than without <p> but with some
!important css that should be fixable as well.

2.) max-width: 65ex seems very little, i changed it to 120ex and it looks fine
with the firefox default font settings - we could also agree on max-width: 800px
if you want.

From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Wed Oct 14 01:27:02 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 10:27:02 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <20091014003202.GD31402@jg>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org> <4AD1CB0A.7010509@vimperator.org>
	<20091014003202.GD31402@jg>
Message-ID: <aaae92100910140127y36b00ae4t5badf138d6726d9a@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 2:32 AM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
> Oh, also, the _Warning_ bit should really disappear. The users see it the
> first time they run Vimperator. It doesn't really add anything to have it on
> the site.

I removed it for now, and yeah, looks certainly better. Maybe I should
only place
a NOTE: about :set guioptions+=mT below the download butten, then people would
figure out themselves how to uninstall anyway.

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Wed Oct 14 01:50:26 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 04:50:26 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <aaae92100910140124tb7d134dj7fdcdcea3ad7d2d4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org> <4AD1CB0A.7010509@vimperator.org>
	<20091014002526.GC31402@jg>
	<aaae92100910140124tb7d134dj7fdcdcea3ad7d2d4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a48155040910140150gf2c5112l14bb6e485a7c501f@mail.gmail.com>

On 2009-10-14, Stubenschrott, Martin <maxauthority at vimperator.org> wrote:
> Just 2 questions:
> 1.) What's a CC-BY link?

creativecommons.org

> 2.) What's "pan handling"?

dictionary.com

> 1.) Having <p> on the first paragraph moves it down a few pixels, so the
> space
> between the header and the text is larger than without <p> but with some
> !important css that should be fixable as well.

!important is evil. And irrelevant; we don't need it. Regardless, I
think it looks fine as is, though it would be better if Google's
crufty table-based layout didn't break margin collapsing.

> 2.) max-width: 65ex seems very little, i changed it to 120ex
> and it looks fine with the firefox default font settings - we
> could also agree on max-width:
> 800px if you want.

120ex is too wide, typographically speaking. It's about as bad
has having no max width. The optimal line width for reading is
generally considered to be between 50 and 80 character widths.
That range falls within the the optimal range of eye movement
for reading. That's why books are typeset at that average width,
and why most newspapers, magazines, and journals are columned
rather than full-width (and also why syndicated columns and such
have their name, but...). The scientists agree with the
esteticians on this one. One ex height is about the average
width of a character in most fonts, which is why I use it, and
why I choose 65.

http://www.markboulton.co.uk/journal/comments/five-simple-steps-to-better-typography
http://www.plainlanguagenetwork.org/type/utbo340.htm

Pixel measurements should never be used in web design where
avoidable, and especially not in these circumstances. The
resolution, size, and font sizes of users vary far too widely
from user to user.

From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Wed Oct 14 04:11:40 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 13:11:40 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <a48155040910140150gf2c5112l14bb6e485a7c501f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org> <4AD1CB0A.7010509@vimperator.org>
	<20091014002526.GC31402@jg>
	<aaae92100910140124tb7d134dj7fdcdcea3ad7d2d4@mail.gmail.com>
	<a48155040910140150gf2c5112l14bb6e485a7c501f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aaae92100910140411q3d0da2bbj7bef0b0ee8d0e224@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 1.) What's a CC-BY link?
>
> creativecommons.org

Ah, you mean for the screenshots, so everybody can use them freely?
But where to place that CC icon?

>> 2.) What's "pan handling"?
>
> dictionary.com

Thanks, I did actually look it up before on dict.leo.org which is
otherwise quite good,
but it couldn't find some proper results for that.

> 120ex is too wide, typographically speaking

I agree with you if vimperator.org consisted of lots of pages of long
text. But it's mostly
a few paragraphs anyway, and at least on a 1650x1080 resolution
fullscreen, having
65ex looks absolutely terrible.

I think 120ex is quite fine (did also test 100ex, but prefer the
former), the only 2 possibilities
to reduce it to let's say 80ex would be:
1.) Use a different google sites theme or restrict the width of the
current one to let's say 1000px
But that at least doesn't work quite well with our white-on black
header. And nearly all other
google sites themes I tried suck.

2.) Place the screenshot thumbnails to the right of the page, one
below the other. Since google
sites' css is quite restrictive, I don't think float:right; is
allowed, so this would require to use tables.

IF we really need a solution, I'd prefer solution 2 since I actually
like the current design.
Maybe i'll test the solution.

From dougkearns at gmail.com  Thu Oct 15 18:50:52 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 12:50:52 +1100
Subject: [Vimperator] Announce: Vimperator 2.2 Beta 1
Message-ID: <644fc65e0910151850h4cb1940dqb5b6ed48833181b@mail.gmail.com>

Vimperator 2.2b1 has been released -
http://vimperator-labs.googlecode.com/files/vimperator_2.2b1.xpi

It is expected that this will be the 2.2 release unless some major issue
emerges.

As we haven't had nightlies available for a couple of months it's especially
important that everyone tests this release over the next week.

Regards,
Doug

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Thu Oct 15 21:02:32 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 00:02:32 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <aaae92100910140411q3d0da2bbj7bef0b0ee8d0e224@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org> <4AD1CB0A.7010509@vimperator.org>
	<20091014002526.GC31402@jg>
	<aaae92100910140124tb7d134dj7fdcdcea3ad7d2d4@mail.gmail.com>
	<a48155040910140150gf2c5112l14bb6e485a7c501f@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaae92100910140411q3d0da2bbj7bef0b0ee8d0e224@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091016000232.794510ad@gmail.com>

On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 13:11:40 +0200
"Stubenschrott, Martin" <maxauthority at vimperator.org> wrote:

> I agree with you if vimperator.org consisted of lots of pages of long
> text. But it's mostly
> a few paragraphs anyway, and at least on a 1650x1080 resolution
> fullscreen, having
> 65ex looks absolutely terrible.

It looks fine to me at 1280x*, and I can't imagine that it looks 
much worse at 1600x*. Even if it does, less than 10% of web users 
have a resolution that high, and I don't see why the rest of us 
should have to suffer for it. Not that I think the wider lines are a 
boon to the large screen users, anyway; I think they suffer just as 
much as anyone else. At any rate, it's an easy enough compromise. 
style="max-width: 65ex; min-width: 40%".

> I think 120ex is quite fine (did also test 100ex, but prefer the 
> former), the only 2 possibilities to reduce it to let's say 80ex 
> would be:

Well, it still quite bothers me, and I still have the science on my 
side, but would you like me to get the opinion of a professional 
designer?

> 2.) Place the screenshot thumbnails to the right of the page, one 
> below the other. Since google sites' css is quite restrictive, I 
> don't think float:right; is allowed, so this would require to use 
> tables.

Floats are allowed. Tables are evil; we don't need any more of them.

-- 
Kris Maglione

Every program has (at least) two purposes: the one for which it was
written, and another for which it wasn't.
	--Alan J. Perlis

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From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Fri Oct 16 00:29:36 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 09:29:36 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Announce: Vimperator 2.2 Beta 1
In-Reply-To: <644fc65e0910151850h4cb1940dqb5b6ed48833181b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <644fc65e0910151850h4cb1940dqb5b6ed48833181b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aaae92100910160029s74e7972er839a548e049e62fb@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks a lot, Doug!

PS: Did your amazon shipment already arrive at your place? Have placed
it at the end of july and Sept 16 was the expected arrival date.

From now at bitwi.se  Fri Oct 16 01:39:56 2009
From: now at bitwi.se (Nikolai Weibull)
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 10:39:56 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Announce: Vimperator 2.2 Beta 1
In-Reply-To: <aaae92100910160029s74e7972er839a548e049e62fb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <644fc65e0910151850h4cb1940dqb5b6ed48833181b@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaae92100910160029s74e7972er839a548e049e62fb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dbfc82860910160139l76076cfbwcce0e4a29bf260bc@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 09:29, Stubenschrott, Martin
<maxauthority at vimperator.org> wrote:

> PS: Did your amazon shipment already arrive at your place? Have placed
> it at the end of july and Sept 16 was the expected arrival date.

Care to enlighten the rest of us as to what you?ve purchased?

(I guess Amazon?s new ?same day delivery? didn?t apply in this case.)

From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Fri Oct 16 01:59:10 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 10:59:10 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Announce: Vimperator 2.2 Beta 1
In-Reply-To: <dbfc82860910160139l76076cfbwcce0e4a29bf260bc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <644fc65e0910151850h4cb1940dqb5b6ed48833181b@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaae92100910160029s74e7972er839a548e049e62fb@mail.gmail.com>
	<dbfc82860910160139l76076cfbwcce0e4a29bf260bc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aaae92100910160159i3eecb8cet64e89fe9d536b0c5@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Nikolai Weibull <now at bitwi.se> wrote:
>> PS: Did your amazon shipment already arrive at your place? Have placed
>> it at the end of july and Sept 16 was the expected arrival date.
>
> Care to enlighten the rest of us as to what you?ve purchased?

I tend to buy developers who really work hard on Vimperator some small
presents from time to time, to also share along the donations to others.

This time, it was some book(s), but since it was ordered from amazon.com
to an australian address, it takes a while for shipping by ship :)

Kris: If you have an amazon wishlist, please send it to me (privately) and I'll
also make sure you get something in appreciation for your efforts.

From now at bitwi.se  Fri Oct 16 02:01:19 2009
From: now at bitwi.se (Nikolai Weibull)
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 11:01:19 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Announce: Vimperator 2.2 Beta 1
In-Reply-To: <aaae92100910160159i3eecb8cet64e89fe9d536b0c5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <644fc65e0910151850h4cb1940dqb5b6ed48833181b@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaae92100910160029s74e7972er839a548e049e62fb@mail.gmail.com>
	<dbfc82860910160139l76076cfbwcce0e4a29bf260bc@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaae92100910160159i3eecb8cet64e89fe9d536b0c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dbfc82860910160201o6d991281o9b580473dbb95435@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 10:59, Stubenschrott, Martin
<maxauthority at vimperator.org> wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Nikolai Weibull <now at bitwi.se> wrote:

>>> PS: Did your amazon shipment already arrive at your place? Have placed
>>> it at the end of july and Sept 16 was the expected arrival date.

>> Care to enlighten the rest of us as to what you?ve purchased?

> I tend to buy developers who really work hard on Vimperator some small
> presents from time to time, to also share along the donations to others.

That?s very nice of you.

> This time, it was some book(s), but since it was ordered from amazon.com
> to an australian address, it takes a while for shipping by ship :)

Ah :-).

From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Fri Oct 16 03:16:56 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 12:16:56 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Announce: Vimperator 2.2 Beta 1
In-Reply-To: <644fc65e0910151850h4cb1940dqb5b6ed48833181b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <644fc65e0910151850h4cb1940dqb5b6ed48833181b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aaae92100910160316t13457a72sde2a8ecce02d28c9@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 3:50 AM, Doug Kearns <dougkearns at gmail.com> wrote:
> Vimperator 2.2b1 has been released -
> http://vimperator-labs.googlecode.com/files/vimperator_2.2b1.xpi

BTW: It's still annoying, that link does not trigger the "install"
event for firefox.
I saw, Kris uploaded some plugin but haven't really looked into. Posting
direct file urls probably won't work anyway though. Maybe it's really better
to just use AMo for uploading betas and declare them as "pre-release"?

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Fri Oct 16 12:56:11 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 21:56:11 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] issue tracker api
Message-ID: <4AD8CFDB.1030801@vimperator.org>

It seems, Google finally has finished their API for google code:

http://googlecode.blogspot.com/2009/10/issue-tracker-data-api-for-project.html

Kris already has done a great job importing the old tickets with normal
HTML POST requests, but still nice. Maybe this API opens up some other
possibilities like google gadgets for a future revision of our homepage.

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sat Oct 17 09:57:06 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 18:57:06 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <20091016000232.794510ad@gmail.com>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org>
	<4AD1CB0A.7010509@vimperator.org>	<20091014002526.GC31402@jg>	<aaae92100910140124tb7d134dj7fdcdcea3ad7d2d4@mail.gmail.com>	<a48155040910140150gf2c5112l14bb6e485a7c501f@mail.gmail.com>	<aaae92100910140411q3d0da2bbj7bef0b0ee8d0e224@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091016000232.794510ad@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AD9F762.50208@vimperator.org>

On 10/16/2009 06:02 AM, Kris Maglione wrote:

>> I think 120ex is quite fine (did also test 100ex, but prefer the 
>> former), the only 2 possibilities to reduce it to let's say 80ex 
>> would be:
> 
> Well, it still quite bothers me, and I still have the science on my 
> side, but would you like me to get the opinion of a professional 
> designer?


Yes, I am sure, he has the best ideas to make it readable and
great looking :)

 
>> 2.) Place the screenshot thumbnails to the right of the page, one 
>> below the other


I did that now for the http://www.vimperator.org/xulmus page (which
currently just has 1 screenshot, might look different with 3 shots).

I kept the overall div at 120ex, but with screenshots div float:right;
inside that container div, the average line is just about 100-105
characters for me, which still might be longer than you desire.

I also raised the line spacing from 1 to 1.4 like suggested on one
of the links you posted, and now it looks much better I think and
should also be better redable for long lines.

The main question is, if the page looks crowded with screenshots
there.

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sat Oct 17 11:32:13 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 14:32:13 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <4AD9F762.50208@vimperator.org>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org>
	<4AD1CB0A.7010509@vimperator.org> <20091014002526.GC31402@jg>
	<aaae92100910140124tb7d134dj7fdcdcea3ad7d2d4@mail.gmail.com>
	<a48155040910140150gf2c5112l14bb6e485a7c501f@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaae92100910140411q3d0da2bbj7bef0b0ee8d0e224@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091016000232.794510ad@gmail.com> <4AD9F762.50208@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091017183213.GA25884@jg>

On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 06:57:06PM +0200, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>> Well, it still quite bothers me, and I still have the science on my 
>> side, but would you like me to get the opinion of a professional 
>> designer?
>
>Yes, I am sure, he has the best ideas to make it readable and
>great looking :)

Well, perhaps, but as she and I have had a bit of a falling out, 
perhaps I should find a he to ask instead.

>>> 2.) Place the screenshot thumbnails to the right of the page, one 
>>> below the other
>
>I did that now for the http://www.vimperator.org/xulmus page (which
>currently just has 1 screenshot, might look different with 3 shots).
>
>I kept the overall div at 120ex, but with screenshots div float:right;
>inside that container div, the average line is just about 100-105
>characters for me, which still might be longer than you desire.

There are a few problems with your layout. First, floats need to 
have a specified, fixed width. In practice, this isn't an issue, 
but it's technically a requirement. Second, with your float on 
the right, the donate button isn't centered properly (the div 
extends the full width of its container, the float only 
displaces its contents and doesn't affect the centering 
calculations). Finally, there are a few problems with setting a 
600px min-height on the float. In normal cases, it doesn't 
extend the entire height of the page, and given that it's mostly 
empty, the text flow can (and does) change mid-element. In other 
cases, it can actually extend past the contents of the main div 
and push the entire page height down (although the former case 
is orders of magnitude more likely in practice).

See updated. It still has the first problem, namely the first 
float doesn't have a specified fixed width, but, as mentioned, 
it doesn't matter much in practice. The second float has the 
specification for good measure.

P.S. It seems the Google HTML sanitizer sucks balls. It replaces 
semantic tags with their non-semantic equivalents, strips 
comments (mode lines), HTML-izes XHTML, fucks up the indentation 
of opening tags. Lameness. Much appallingly lame lameness. It 
would be nice if they would just give us an hg repo to dump some 
HTML in like they do for the wiki.

>I also raised the line spacing from 1 to 1.4 like suggested on one
>of the links you posted, and now it looks much better I think and
>should also be better redable for long lines.
>
>The main question is, if the page looks crowded with screenshots
>there.

No, it doesn't. I thought it would, but it doesn't.

-- 
Kris Maglione

About the use of language: it is impossible to sharpen a pencil with a
blunt axe.  It is equally vain to try to do it with ten blunt axes
instead.
	--Edsger W. Dijkstra


From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sat Oct 17 11:45:37 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 20:45:37 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <20091017183213.GA25884@jg>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org>	<4AD1CB0A.7010509@vimperator.org>
	<20091014002526.GC31402@jg>	<aaae92100910140124tb7d134dj7fdcdcea3ad7d2d4@mail.gmail.com>	<a48155040910140150gf2c5112l14bb6e485a7c501f@mail.gmail.com>	<aaae92100910140411q3d0da2bbj7bef0b0ee8d0e224@mail.gmail.com>	<20091016000232.794510ad@gmail.com>
	<4AD9F762.50208@vimperator.org> <20091017183213.GA25884@jg>
Message-ID: <4ADA10D1.4060006@vimperator.org>

On 10/17/2009 08:32 PM, Kris Maglione wrote:

> Finally, there are a few problems with setting a 
> 600px min-height on the float. In normal cases, it doesn't 
> extend the entire height of the page, and given that it's mostly 
> empty, the text flow can (and does) change mid-element. In other 
> cases, it can actually extend past the contents of the main div 
> and push the entire page height down (although the former case 
> is orders of magnitude more likely in practice).

That 600px was just a quick test, how it would look like with 3
screenshots three.

> See updated


Looks great, i also thought about the bigger padding between the
screenshots and the text. It also looks much cleaner now that the
text in the first "column" all has the same width. I think that's
the solution we can probably go for muttator/vimperator as well,
which is a good compromise between readability, design and cleanness
of the site. Actually it's better than having the screenshots below,
as the user doesn't have to scroll so much to see the scripts/bugs.


> P.S. It seems the Google HTML sanitizer sucks balls.


It certainly does, yes.

From dougkearns at gmail.com  Sat Oct 17 17:31:01 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 11:31:01 +1100
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <20091017183213.GA25884@jg>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org>
	<4AD1CB0A.7010509@vimperator.org> <20091014002526.GC31402@jg>
	<aaae92100910140124tb7d134dj7fdcdcea3ad7d2d4@mail.gmail.com> 
	<a48155040910140150gf2c5112l14bb6e485a7c501f@mail.gmail.com> 
	<aaae92100910140411q3d0da2bbj7bef0b0ee8d0e224@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20091016000232.794510ad@gmail.com> <4AD9F762.50208@vimperator.org> 
	<20091017183213.GA25884@jg>
Message-ID: <644fc65e0910171731n27000a7bi35e2d39c5b2640c3@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 5:32 AM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>

> It would be nice if they would just give us an hg
> repo to dump some HTML in like they do for the wiki.

Do you know what the www repo is for on GC?  I couldn't find an
explanation in the docs.

Doug

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sat Oct 17 18:02:20 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 21:02:20 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <644fc65e0910171731n27000a7bi35e2d39c5b2640c3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org>
	<4AD1CB0A.7010509@vimperator.org> <20091014002526.GC31402@jg>
	<aaae92100910140124tb7d134dj7fdcdcea3ad7d2d4@mail.gmail.com>
	<a48155040910140150gf2c5112l14bb6e485a7c501f@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaae92100910140411q3d0da2bbj7bef0b0ee8d0e224@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091016000232.794510ad@gmail.com>
	<4AD9F762.50208@vimperator.org> <20091017183213.GA25884@jg>
	<644fc65e0910171731n27000a7bi35e2d39c5b2640c3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091018010220.GD25884@jg>

On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 11:31:01AM +1100, Doug Kearns wrote:
>> It would be nice if they would just give us an hg
>> repo to dump some HTML in like they do for the wiki.
>
>Do you know what the www repo is for on GC?  I couldn't find an
>explanation in the docs.

Just go to the checkout page and select 'www' from the 
Repository dropdown. It's 

     https://www.vimperator-labs.googlecode.com/hg/

-- 
Kris Maglione

Death must be so beautiful.  To lie in the soft brown earth, with the
grasses waving above one's head, and listen to silence.  To have no
yesterday, and no tomorrow.  To forget time, to forgive life, to be at
peace.
	--Oscar Wilde


From dougkearns at gmail.com  Sat Oct 17 19:53:37 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 13:53:37 +1100
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <20091018010220.GD25884@jg>
References: <4AAA635B.4040208@vimperator.org> <20091014002526.GC31402@jg> 
	<aaae92100910140124tb7d134dj7fdcdcea3ad7d2d4@mail.gmail.com> 
	<a48155040910140150gf2c5112l14bb6e485a7c501f@mail.gmail.com> 
	<aaae92100910140411q3d0da2bbj7bef0b0ee8d0e224@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20091016000232.794510ad@gmail.com> <4AD9F762.50208@vimperator.org> 
	<20091017183213.GA25884@jg>
	<644fc65e0910171731n27000a7bi35e2d39c5b2640c3@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20091018010220.GD25884@jg>
Message-ID: <644fc65e0910171953wc783e1fkb661c7052d22d924@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 11:31:01AM +1100, Doug Kearns wrote:
>>>
>>> It would be nice if they would just give us an hg
>>> repo to dump some HTML in like they do for the wiki.
>>
>> Do you know what the www repo is for on GC? ?I couldn't find an
>> explanation in the docs.
>
> Just go to the checkout page and select 'www' from the Repository dropdown.
> It's
> ? ?https://www.vimperator-labs.googlecode.com/hg/

Err, thanks.  So is this new or are my powers of observation negligible?

I'd assumed we were using Google Sites because GC didn't provide this
facility...

Doug

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sat Oct 17 22:12:55 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 01:12:55 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Fwd: Re:  Moving vimperator.org
Message-ID: <20091018051255.GF25884@jg>

Hm. Mozdev bounced this message. Apparently one of Gmail's 
servers got added to an RBL.

----- Forwarded message from Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> -----

Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 00:19:48 -0400
Subject: Re: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
From: Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com>
To: vimperator at mozdev.org

On 2009-10-17, Doug Kearns <dougkearns at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com>
>> Just go to the checkout page and select 'www' from the Repository
>> dropdown.
>> It's
>>    https://www.vimperator-labs.googlecode.com/hg/
>
> Err, thanks.  So is this new or are my powers of observation negligible?
>
> I'd assumed we were using Google Sites because GC didn't provide this
> facility...

They don't, that's just a repo that Martin created. The only repo
that's magical is the wiki repo.

----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Kris Maglione

Measuring programming progress by lines of code is like measuring
aircraft building progress by weight.
	--Bill Gates


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sat Oct 17 22:16:06 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 01:16:06 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] issue tracker api
In-Reply-To: <4AD8CFDB.1030801@vimperator.org>
References: <4AD8CFDB.1030801@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091018051606.GG25884@jg>

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 09:56:11PM +0200, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>It seems, Google finally has finished their API for google code:
>
>http://googlecode.blogspot.com/2009/10/issue-tracker-data-api-for-project.html
>
>Kris already has done a great job importing the old tickets with normal
>HTML POST requests, but still nice. Maybe this API opens up some other
>possibilities like google gadgets for a future revision of our homepage.

They do, of course, have excellent timing, releasing their API 
the very day after I've finished with the whole mess.

-- 
Kris Maglione

If you want to go somewhere, goto is the best way to get there.
	--Ken Thompson


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sun Oct 18 01:10:26 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 04:10:26 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving vimperator.org
In-Reply-To: <644fc65e0910171953wc783e1fkb661c7052d22d924@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091014002526.GC31402@jg>
	<aaae92100910140124tb7d134dj7fdcdcea3ad7d2d4@mail.gmail.com>
	<a48155040910140150gf2c5112l14bb6e485a7c501f@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaae92100910140411q3d0da2bbj7bef0b0ee8d0e224@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091016000232.794510ad@gmail.com>
	<4AD9F762.50208@vimperator.org> <20091017183213.GA25884@jg>
	<644fc65e0910171731n27000a7bi35e2d39c5b2640c3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091018010220.GD25884@jg>
	<644fc65e0910171953wc783e1fkb661c7052d22d924@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091018081026.GI25884@jg>

On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 01:53:37PM +1100, Doug Kearns wrote:
>On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 11:31:01AM +1100, Doug Kearns wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It would be nice if they would just give us an hg
>>>> repo to dump some HTML in like they do for the wiki.
>>>
>>> Do you know what the www repo is for on GC? ?I couldn't find an
>>> explanation in the docs.
>>
>> Just go to the checkout page and select 'www' from the Repository dropdown.
>> It's
>> ? ?https://www.vimperator-labs.googlecode.com/hg/
>
>Err, thanks.  So is this new or are my powers of observation negligible?
>
>I'd assumed we were using Google Sites because GC didn't provide this
>facility...

I'm realizing that my last response to your question was 
nonsensical. Chalk it up to insomnia. Next thing you know, I'll 
be biting people's heads off. Be wary.

-- 
Kris Maglione

Real Programmers don't believe in schedules.  Planners make up
schedules.  Managers "firm up" schedules.  Frightened coders strive to
meet schedules.  Real Programmers ignore schedules.


From usernetwork at gmx.info  Sun Oct 18 14:36:37 2009
From: usernetwork at gmx.info (Peter Jordan)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 23:36:37 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] [abbreviation] current time in unix format
Message-ID: <hbg1p6$8hp$1@ger.gmane.org>

Hello,

is it possible to define an insert mode abbreviation which substitutes 
the expression _UNIX with the current unix time stamp (1255901712) or 
_DATETIME with the current date and time (2009-10-18T23:34:47+0200)?

thanks,

PJ


From vimperator at mozdev.org  Mon Oct 19 13:16:04 2009
From: vimperator at mozdev.org (vimperator at mozdev.org)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 13:16:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Vimperator] [SPAM] 27776 | Approved Card | Online team
Message-ID: <20091019201604.C9C7884562@mozdev.mozdev.org>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mozdev.org/pipermail/vimperator/attachments/20091019/de8f473e/attachment.html>

From dougkearns at gmail.com  Tue Oct 20 04:22:38 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:22:38 +1100
Subject: [Vimperator] Google Sites and IRC links
Message-ID: <644fc65e0910200422s5f26b075wab275b7ca9f9b120@mail.gmail.com>

Am I being thick or is there no way to add an IRC hyperlink to a
Google Sites page?  It keeps, rather handily, replacing it with a
no-op JS link.

Doug

From dougkearns at gmail.com  Tue Oct 20 06:48:48 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 00:48:48 +1100
Subject: [Vimperator] Adding an IRC hyperlink to web site
Message-ID: <644fc65e0910200648r39344f83kebbd3fa545ab5bb5@mail.gmail.com>

Am I being thick or is there no way to add an IRC hyperlink to a
Google Sites page?  It keeps, rather handily, replacing it with a
no-op JS link.

Doug

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Tue Oct 20 18:31:13 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 21:31:13 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Adding an IRC hyperlink to web site
In-Reply-To: <644fc65e0910200648r39344f83kebbd3fa545ab5bb5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <644fc65e0910200648r39344f83kebbd3fa545ab5bb5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091021013113.GC8637@jg>

On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 12:48:48AM +1100, Doug Kearns wrote:
>Am I being thick or is there no way to add an IRC hyperlink to a
>Google Sites page?  It keeps, rather handily, replacing it with a
>no-op JS link.

I posted to their, er, bug forum. They might fix it. They 
apparently fixed callto: links being prepended with http://, so 
who knows.

Perhaps we ought to just move the website (but not the project 
hosting) to SourceForge. We really should have a SF project 
page, anyway.

-- 
Kris Maglione

The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to
change; the realist adjusts the sails.
	--William Arthur Ward


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Wed Oct 21 18:17:13 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 01:17:13 -0000
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH 0 of 1] Towards replacing asciidoc.
Message-ID: <patchbomb.1256174233@localhost.localdomain>


This is an experimental attempt at replacing the asciidoc help
with an XML/XSLT-based help format. I'm no fan of XML, which
is to say, I hate XML with a passion. That said, Firefox is
very much XML based, and we're going rather far out of our way
to mangle other formats into one that Firefox understands
natively. This patch obviates that issue, which I think more
than makes up for the evil of the format. It's also somewhat
easier for new users to deal with, since the tags are very
much HTML based.

There are some other side benefits, which solve issues that
have bugging me for ages. The XML documents are easily mangled
by Gecko such that they reflect the actual liberated app that
they're viewed in. We can set entities like &hostapp; and
&appname; to take care of Firefox and Vimperator references.
Then, above and beyond that, we can use overlays, XSLT, or DOM
manipulation to splice in extension-specific entries. That
should very much ease the pain of maintaining three sets of
documents with >90% overlap.

Also of importance is that I've moved the help formatting into
the highlighting system. I think we should do this regardless
of what help format we continue with.

I need to note, though, that for some reason I've been unable
to get XSLT working from chrome://*/locale/ files, so you'll
have to apply the patch, and then view the file:// url of
options.txt to see the result.

You should use mq's qimport to apply this patch.



From dougkearns at gmail.com  Wed Oct 21 20:08:33 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 14:08:33 +1100
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH 0 of 1] Towards replacing asciidoc.
In-Reply-To: <patchbomb.1256174233@localhost.localdomain>
References: <patchbomb.1256174233@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <644fc65e0910212008q27873b36ua086b2490ebd4e0c@mail.gmail.com>

Am I overlooking the esoteric humour in your subject or is the patch
intentionally missing?

Doug

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Wed Oct 21 20:46:19 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 23:46:19 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH 0 of 1] Towards replacing asciidoc.
In-Reply-To: <644fc65e0910212008q27873b36ua086b2490ebd4e0c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <patchbomb.1256174233@localhost.localdomain>
	<644fc65e0910212008q27873b36ua086b2490ebd4e0c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091022034619.GC23287@jg>

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 02:08:33PM +1100, Doug Kearns wrote:
>Am I overlooking the esoteric humour in your subject or is the patch
>intentionally missing?

Well, it was supposed to have been posted as a reply. It shows 
up in my mailer, too, but I recieved a bounce message. Can't 
explain it. It's attached.

-- 
Kris Maglione

Fashion is something barbarous, for it produces innovation without
reason and imitation without benefit.
	--George Santayana

-------------- next part --------------
# HG changeset patch
# User Kris Maglione <jg at suckless.org>
# Date 1256172967 14400
# Node ID a574deaf931b38969c044806719fda60038dd665
# Parent  4e4da714d3e3318e0e96566e05f514078c49feca
Replace asciidoc.

diff --git a/common/content/style.js b/common/content/style.js
--- a/common/content/style.js
+++ b/common/content/style.js
@@ -121,6 +121,53 @@ Highlights.prototype.CSS = <![CDATA[
     HintActive,,*   background-color: #88FF00; color: black;
     HintImage,,*    opacity: .5;
 
+    Help                                        font-size: 8pt; line-height: 1.4em; font-family: -moz-fixed;
+    HelpArg,liberator|a                         color: #6A97D4;
+    HelpArg::before                             content: "{";
+    HelpArg::after                              content: "}";
+    HelpBody                                    display: block; margin: 1em auto; max-width: 100ex;
+    HelpBorder,liberator|*                      border-color: silver; border-width: 0px; border-style: solid;
+    HelpCode,liberator|code                     display: block; white-space: pre; margin-left: 2em; font-family: courier, monospace;
+
+    HelpDefault,liberator|default               display: block; float: left; margin-right: 1ex; margin-bottom: 1em; white-space: pre;
+    HelpDefault::after                          content: ")"
+    HelpDefault::before                         content: "(default: ";
+
+    HelpDescription,liberator|description       display: block; clear: both;
+    HelpEm,liberator|em                         font-weight: bold;
+    HelpEx,liberator|ex                         color: #527BBD; font-weight: bold;
+    HelpExample,liberator|example               display: block; margin: 1em 0;
+    HelpExample::before                         content: "Example: "; font-weight: bold;
+    HelpHead,liberator|h1                       display: block; margin: 1em 0; padding-bottom: .2ex; border-bottom-width: 1px; font-size: 2em; font-weight: bold; color: #527BBD; clear: both;
+    HelpItem,liberator|item                     display: block; margin: 1em 1em 1em 10em;
+
+    HelpKey,liberator|k                         color: #102663;
+    HelpKey[name]::before                      content: "<" attr(name) ">";
+
+    HelpList,liberator|ul                       display: block; list-style: inside disc;
+    HelpListItem,liberator|li                   display: list-item;
+
+    HelpNote,liberator|note                     display: block; margin: 1em 0em;
+    HelpNote::before                            content: "Note: "; color: red; font-weight: bold;
+
+    HelpParagraph,liberator|p                   display: block; margin: 1em 0em; clear: right;
+    HelpSpec,liberator|spec                     display: block; margin: 0 2em 0 -10em; float: left; clear: left; color: #527BBD;
+    HelpSubhead,liberator|h2                    display: block; margin: 1em 0; padding-bottom: .2ex; border-bottom-width: 1px; font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; color: #527BBD; clear: both;
+
+    HelpTab,liberator|dl                        display: table; width: 100%; margin: 1em 0; border-bottom-width: 1px; border-top-width: 1px; padding: 1ex 0; table-layout: fixed;
+    HelpTabCell,liberator|dl>*>*                display: table-cell; padding: .5ex 1ex;
+    HelpTabColumn,liberator|column              display: table-column;
+    HelpTabColumn1,liberator|column:nth-of-type(1) display: table-column; width: 20%;
+    HelpTabColumn2,liberator|column:nth-of-type(2) display: table-column; width: 80%;
+    HelpTabRow,liberator|dl>*                   display: table-row;
+
+    HelpTag,liberator|tag                       display: inline-block; color: #527BBD; margin-left: 1ex; font-size: 8pt; font-weight: bold;
+    HelpTags,liberator|tags                     display: block; float: right; clear: right;
+    HelpType,liberator|type                     display: block; float: left; margin-right: 1ex; margin-bottom: 1em;
+
+    HelpWarning,liberator|warning               display: block; margin: 1em 0em;
+    HelpWarning::before                         content: "Warning: "; color: red; font-weight: bold;
+
     Search,,* {
         font-size: inherit;
         padding: 0;
@@ -142,10 +189,18 @@ function Highlights(name, store)
     let highlight = {};
     let styles = storage.styles;
 
-    const Highlight = Struct("class", "selector", "filter", "default", "value");
-    Highlight.defaultValue("filter", function () ["chrome://liberator/content/buffer.xhtml"].concat(config.styleableChrome).join(","));
+    const Highlight = Struct("class", "selector", "filter", "default", "value", "base");
+    Highlight.defaultValue("filter", function () 
+        this.base ? this.base.filter :
+        ["chrome://liberator/content/buffer.xhtml",
+         "chrome://liberator/locale/*",
+         "file://*"].concat(config.styleableChrome).join(","));
     Highlight.defaultValue("selector", function () self.selector(this.class));
     Highlight.defaultValue("value", function () this.default);
+    Highlight.defaultValue("base", function () {
+        let base = this.class.match(/^(\w*)/)[0];
+        return base != this.class && base in highlight ? highlight[base] : null;
+    });
     Highlight.prototype.toString = function () "Highlight(" + this.class + ")\n\t" + [k + ": " + util.escapeString(v || "undefined") for ([k, v] in this)].join("\n\t");
 
     function keys() [k for ([k, v] in Iterator(highlight))].sort();
@@ -185,7 +240,7 @@ function Highlights(name, store)
         {
             css = style.selector + " { " + css + " }";
 
-            let error = styles.addSheet(true, style.selector, style.filter, css, true);
+            let error = styles.addSheet(true, "highlight:" + style.class, style.filter, css, true);
             if (error)
                 return error;
         }
@@ -201,7 +256,10 @@ function Highlights(name, store)
     this.selector = function (class)
     {
         let [, hl, rest] = class.match(/^(\w*)(.*)/);
-        return "[liberator|highlight~=" + hl + "]" + rest;
+        let class = "[liberator|highlight~=" + hl + "]"
+        if (highlight[hl] && highlight[hl].class != class)
+            class = highlight[hl].selector;
+        return class + rest;
     };
 
     /**
@@ -221,7 +279,7 @@ function Highlights(name, store)
      */
     this.loadCSS = function (css)
     {
-        css.replace(/\{((?:.|\n)*?)\}/g, function (_, _1) _1.replace(/\n\s*/g, " "))
+        css.replace(/^\s*\S*\s+\{((?:.|\n)*?)\}\s*$/gm, function (_, _1) _1.replace(/\n\s*/g, " "))
            .split("\n").filter(function (s) /\S/.test(s))
            .forEach(function (style)
         {
diff --git a/vimperator/content/config.js b/vimperator/content/config.js
--- a/vimperator/content/config.js
+++ b/vimperator/content/config.js
@@ -168,8 +168,8 @@ const config = { //{{{
         let img = Image();
         img.src = "chrome://vimperator/content/logo.png";
         img.onload = function () {
-            styles.addSheet(true, "logo", "chrome://liberator/locale/*",
-                ".vimperator-logo {" + <>
+            styles.addSheet(true, "logo", "chrome://liberator/locale/*,*",
+                ".liberator-logo {" + <>
                      display:    inline-block;
                      background: url({img.src});
                      width:      {img.width}px;
diff --git a/vimperator/locale/en-US/help.xsl b/vimperator/locale/en-US/help.xsl
new file mode 100644
--- /dev/null
+++ b/vimperator/locale/en-US/help.xsl
@@ -0,0 +1,77 @@
+<xsl:stylesheet version="1.0"
+    xmlns="http://vimperator.org/namespaces/liberator"
+    xmlns:liberator="http://vimperator.org/namespaces/liberator"
+    xmlns:html="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"
+    xmlns:xsl="http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Transform">
+
+    <xsl:template match="*[name()='document']">
+        <html:html liberator:highlight="Help">
+            <html:body liberator:highlight="HelpBody">
+                <html:div class="liberator-logo"/>
+                <tags>
+                    <xsl:call-template name="parse-tags">
+                        <xsl:with-param name="text"><xsl:value-of select="@name"/></xsl:with-param>
+                    </xsl:call-template>
+                </tags>
+                <xsl:apply-templates/>
+            </html:body>
+        </html:html>
+    </xsl:template>
+
+    <xsl:template match="*[name()='tags']">
+        <tags>
+        <xsl:call-template name="parse-tags">
+            <xsl:with-param name="text"><xsl:value-of select="."/></xsl:with-param>
+        </xsl:call-template>
+        </tags>
+    </xsl:template>
+
+    <xsl:template name="parse-tags">
+        <xsl:param name="text"/>
+        <xsl:variable name="tag" select="substring-before(normalize-space($text), ' ')"/>
+        <xsl:variable name="rest" select="substring-after(normalize-space($text), ' ')"/>
+        <xsl:choose>
+            <xsl:when test="$tag">
+                <tag><xsl:attribute name="id"><xsl:value-of select="$tag"/></xsl:attribute><xsl:value-of select="$tag"/></tag>
+            </xsl:when>
+            <xsl:when test="$text">
+                <tag><xsl:attribute name="id"><xsl:value-of select="$text"/></xsl:attribute><xsl:value-of select="$text"/></tag>
+            </xsl:when>
+        </xsl:choose>
+        <xsl:if test="$rest">
+            <xsl:call-template name="parse-tags">
+                <xsl:with-param name="text" select="$rest"/>
+            </xsl:call-template>
+        </xsl:if>
+    </xsl:template>
+
+    <xsl:template match="*[name()='dl']">
+        <dl>
+            <column/>
+            <column/>
+            <xsl:apply-templates/>
+        </dl>
+    </xsl:template>
+
+    <xsl:template match="*[name()='tag']">
+        <tags>
+            <xsl:call-template name="parse-tags">
+                <xsl:with-param name="text"><xsl:value-of select="."/></xsl:with-param>
+            </xsl:call-template>
+        </tags>
+    </xsl:template>
+    <xsl:template match="@tag">
+        <tags>
+            <xsl:call-template name="parse-tags">
+                <xsl:with-param name="text"><xsl:value-of select="."/></xsl:with-param>
+            </xsl:call-template>
+        </tags>
+    </xsl:template>
+    <xsl:template match="@*|node()">
+        <xsl:copy>
+            <xsl:apply-templates select="@*|node()"/>
+        </xsl:copy>
+    </xsl:template>
+</xsl:stylesheet>
+
+<!-- vim:se ft=xslt sts=4 sw=4 et: -->
diff --git a/vimperator/locale/en-US/options.xml b/vimperator/locale/en-US/options.xml
new file mode 100644
--- /dev/null
+++ b/vimperator/locale/en-US/options.xml
@@ -0,0 +1,1319 @@
+<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
+<?xml-stylesheet type="text/xsl" href="help.xsl"?>
+
+<!DOCTYPE overlay SYSTEM "liberator.dtd" [
+    <!ENTITY appname "Vimperator">
+    <!ENTITY hostapp "Firefox">
+    <!ELEMENT default (#PCDATA)>
+]>
+
+<document
+    name="options.html"
+    xmlns="http://vimperator.org/namespaces/liberator"
+    xmlns:html="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
+<h1 tag="options">Options</h1>
+
+<p>
+    &appname; has a number of internal variables and switches which can be set to
+    achieve special effects. These options come in 5 forms:
+</p>
+
+<dl>
+    <tr><em>boolean   </em><dd>can only be on or off</dd></tr>
+    <tr><em>number    </em><dd>has a numeric value</dd></tr>
+    <tr><em>string    </em><dd>has a string value</dd></tr>
+    <tr><em>charlist  </em><dd>like a string but with unique characters</dd></tr>
+    <tr><em>stringlist</em><dd>a comma-separated list of strings</dd></tr>
+</dl>
+
+<h2 tag="set-option E764">Setting options</h2>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>:set :se</tags>
+    <spec>:se[t]</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>Show all options that differ from their default value.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <spec>:se[t] all</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>Show all options.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>E518 E519</tags>
+    <spec>:se[t] <a>option</a>?</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>Show value of <a>option</a>.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <spec>:se[t] <a>option</a> [...]</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Toggle option: set, switch it on.
+            Number option: show value.
+            String option: show value.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <spec>:se[t] no[a]<a>option</a>[a] [...]</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>Toggle option: Reset, switch it off.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <spec>:se[t] <a>option</a>! [...]</spec>
+    <spec>:se[t] inv[a]<a>option</a>[a] [...]</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>Toggle option: Invert value.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <spec>:se[t] inv[a]<a>option</a>[a]=<a>value</a> [...]</spec>
+    <spec>:se[t] <a>option</a>!=<a>value</a> [...]</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>For list options, toggle the specified values.</p>
+
+        <p>If the option is a list, the given values are toggled. Given</p>
+        <code><ex>:set opt=foo,bar</ex></code>
+        <p>then,</p>
+        <code><ex>:set opt!=foo,baz</ex></code>
+        <p>results in</p>
+        <code>opt=bar,baz</code>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>:set-default</tags>
+    <spec>:se[t] <a>option</a>&amp; [...]</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>Reset option to its default value.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <spec>:se[t] all&amp;</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>Set all options to their default value.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>:set-args E487 E521</tags>
+    <spec>:se[t] <a>option</a>=<a>value</a> [...]</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Set string or number option to <a>value</a>.
+            For numeric options the value must be given in decimal.
+            The old value can be inserted by typing <k name="Tab"/>.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>:set+=</tags>
+    <spec>:se[t] <a>option</a>+=<a>value</a> [...]</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Add the <a>value</a> to a number option, or append the <a>value</a> to a string option.
+            When the option is a comma separated list, a comma is added, unless the value
+            was empty. If the option is a list of flags, superfluous flags are removed.
+            When adding a flag that was already present the option value doesn't change.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>:set^=</tags>
+    <spec>:se[t] <a>option</a>^=<a>value</a> [...]</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Multiply the <a>value</a> to a number option, or prepend the <a>value</a> to a string
+            option. When the option is a comma separated list, a comma is added, unless the
+            value was empty.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>:set-=</tags>
+    <spec>:se[t] <a>option</a>-=<a>value</a> [...]</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Subtract the <a>value</a> from a number option, or remove the <a>value</a> from a string
+            option if it is there. If the <a>value</a> is not found in a string option, there
+            is no error or warning. When the option is a comma separated list, a comma is
+            deleted, unless the option becomes empty. When the option is a list of flags,
+            <a>value</a> must be exactly as they appear in the option. Remove flags one by one
+            to avoid problems.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>:setlocal :setl</tags>
+    <spec>:setl[ocal]</spec>
+    <spec>:setl[ocal] all</spec>
+    <spec>:setl[ocal] <a>option</a>?</spec>
+    <spec>:setl[ocal] <a>option</a></spec>
+    <spec>:setl[ocal] no[a]<a>option</a>[a]</spec>
+    <spec>:setl[ocal] inv[a]<a>option</a>[a]</spec>
+    <spec>:setl[ocal] <a>option</a>&amp;</spec>
+    <spec>:setl[ocal] all&amp;</spec>
+    <spec>:setl[ocal] <a>option</a>=<a>value</a></spec>
+    <spec>:setl[ocal] <a>option</a>+=<a>value</a></spec>
+    <spec>:setl[ocal] <a>option</a>^=<a>value</a></spec>
+    <spec>:setl[ocal] <a>option</a>-=<a>value</a></spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            The same as <ex>:set</ex> command, but operates on current tab options
+            only. See <ex>:set</ex> for details.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>:setglobal :setg</tags>
+    <spec>:setg[lobal]</spec>
+    <spec>:setg[lobal] all</spec>
+    <spec>:setg[lobal] <a>option</a>?</spec>
+    <spec>:setg[lobal] <a>option</a></spec>
+    <spec>:setg[lobal] no[a]<a>option</a>[a]</spec>
+    <spec>:setg[lobal] inv[a]<a>option</a>[a]</spec>
+    <spec>:setg[lobal] <a>option</a>&amp;</spec>
+    <spec>:setg[lobal] all&amp;</spec>
+    <spec>:setg[lobal] <a>option</a>=<a>value</a></spec>
+    <spec>:setg[lobal] <a>option</a>+=<a>value</a></spec>
+    <spec>:setg[lobal] <a>option</a>^=<a>value</a></spec>
+    <spec>:setg[lobal] <a>option</a>-=<a>value</a></spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            The same as <ex>:set</ex> command, but operates on global options only.
+            See <ex>:set</ex> for details.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<tags>expand-environment-var expand-env :set_env</tags>
+
+<p>
+    Environment variables are expanded for path options like <opt>cdpath</opt> and
+    <opt>runtimepath</opt>. The variable notation is _$VAR_ (terminated by a non-word
+    character) or _$\\<a>VAR</a>_. _%VAR%_ is also supported on Windows.
+</p>
+
+<h2 tag="firefox-options preferences">Setting &hostapp; options</h2>
+
+<p>&hostapp; options can be viewed and set with the following commands:</p>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>:prefs :preferences</tags>
+    <spec>:pref[erences]</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Show the &hostapp; preferences dialog. You can change the browser preferences
+            from this dialog. Be aware that not all &hostapp; preferences work, because
+            &appname; overrides some key bindings and changes &hostapp;'s GUI.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>:prefs! :preferences!</tags>
+    <spec>:pref[erences]!</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Opens about:config in the current tab where you can change advanced &hostapp;
+            preferences.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>:set! :set-!</tags>
+    <spec>:se[t]! <a>preference</a>=<a>value</a></spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Change any &hostapp; <a>preference</a> (those in the about:config window). You can also
+            reset/delete those preferences with <ex>:set! <a>preference</a>&amp;</ex>.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<tags>overridden-preferences</tags>
+
+<p>
+    &appname; sets several &hostapp; preferences at startup. If this is undesirable,
+    they can be changed to a different value in your RC file using
+    <ex>:set! <a>preference</a>=<a>value</a></ex>
+</p>
+
+<p>The following preferences are set:</p>
+
+<ul>
+    <li><link href="http://kb.mozillazine.org/Dom.popup_allowed_events">dom.popup_allowed_events</link></li>
+    <li><link href="http://kb.mozillazine.org/Accessibility.typeaheadfind.autostart">accessibility.typeaheadfind.autostart</link></li>
+    <li><link href="http://kb.mozillazine.org/Accessibility.typeaheadfind">accessibility.typeaheadfind</link></li>
+</ul>
+
+<!-- TODO: others? -->
+
+<h2 tag="list-options">List of options</h2>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'act' 'activate'</tags>
+    <spec>'activate' 'act'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default>"homepage,quickmark,tabopen,paste"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Define when tabs are automatically activated. Available items:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <tr><em>homepage </em><dd><k>gH</k> mapping</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>quickmark</em><dd><k>go</k> and <k>gn</k> mappings</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>tabopen  </em><dd><ex>:tabopen[!]</ex> command</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>paste    </em><dd><k>P</k> and <k>gP</k> mappings</dd></tr>
+        </dl>
+
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>$CDPATH</tags>
+    <tags>'cd' 'cdpath'</tags>
+    <spec>'cdpath' 'cd'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>equivalent to _$CDPATH_ or ",,"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            List of directories searched when executing the <ex>:cd</ex> command. This is
+            only used for relative paths if an absolute path is specified then the option
+            is ignored.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'cpt' 'complete'</tags>
+    <spec>'complete' 'cpt'</spec>
+    <type>charlist</type>
+    <default>slf</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Items which are completed at the <ex>:open</ex> prompts. Available items:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <tr><em>s</em><dd>Search engines and keyword URLs</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>f</em><dd>Local files</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>l</em><dd>&hostapp; location bar entries (bookmarks and history sorted in an intelligent way)</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>b</em><dd>Bookmarks</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>h</em><dd>History</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>S</em><dd>Search engine suggestions</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>t</em><dd>Open tabs</dd></tr>
+        </dl>
+
+        <p>
+            The order is important, so <ex>:set complete=bs</ex> would list bookmarks first,
+            and then any available quick searches.
+        </p>
+
+        <warning>
+            Using <em>b</em> and <em>h</em> can make completion very slow if there are many items.
+        </warning>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'ds' 'defsearch'</tags>
+    <spec>'defsearch' 'ds'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>"google"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Sets the default search engine. The default search engine name is used in the
+            <ex>:open [arg]</ex> command if [a][arg][a] neither looks like a URL nor like a
+            specified search engine/keyword.
+        </p>
+
+        <p>
+            This means that if you set <opt>defsearch</opt> to <str>youtube</str>, then <ex>:open arnold
+            schwarzenegger<ex> will be exactly the same as </ex>:open youtube arnold
+            schwarzenegger</ex>. Therefore, you need to add a keyword or search engine
+            <str>youtube</str> first.
+        </p>
+
+        <p>
+            If <opt>defsearch</opt> is empty, then &hostapp; will always attempt to open the
+            raw [a][arg][a].
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'editor'</tags>
+    <spec>'editor'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>"gvim -f"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Set the external text editor.
+            Sets the editor to run when <k name="C-i"/> is pressed in Insert and TextArea
+            modes.
+        </p>
+
+        <warning>
+            &appname; will not behave correctly if the editor forks its own
+            process, such as with gvim without the -f argument.
+        </warning>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'noex' 'noexrc' 'ex' 'exrc'</tags>
+    <spec>'exrc' 'ex'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>off</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Allow reading of an RC file in the current directory. This file is sourced in
+            addition to, and after, your default RC file.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'eht' 'extendedhinttags'</tags>
+    <spec>'extendedhinttags' 'eht'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>
+        //*[@onclick or @onmouseover or @onmousedown or @onmouseup or
+            @oncommand or @class='lk' or @role='link'] |
+        //input[not(@type='hidden')] | //xhtml:input[not(@type='hidden')] |
+        //a | //xhtml:a | //area | //xhtml:area | //iframe | //xhtml:iframe |
+        //textarea | //xhtml:textarea | //button | //xhtml:button |
+        //select | //xhtml:select</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>The XPath string of hintable elements activated by <k>;</k>.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'noeb' 'noerrorbells' 'eb' 'errorbells'</tags>
+    <spec>'errorbells' 'eb'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>off</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Ring the bell when an error message is displayed.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'ei' 'eventignore'</tags>
+    <spec>'eventignore'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default>""</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            A list of autocommand event names which should be ignored. If the list contains
+            the value <str>all</str> then all events are ignored.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'enc' 'encoding'</tags>
+    <spec>'encoding'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>"UTF-8"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Changes the character encoding of the current buffer. Valid only for the
+            current page.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'fenc' 'fileencoding'</tags>
+    <spec>'fileencoding'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>"UTF-8"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Changes the character encoding that &appname; uses to read and write files.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'nofc' 'nofocuscontent' 'fc' 'focuscontent'</tags>
+    <spec>'focuscontent' 'fc'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>off</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Focus the content after a page has loaded. This is useful if you always
+            want to stay in Normal mode when browsing between web sites. When <str>on</str>, it
+            blurs any textbox which often is automatically focused on page load.
+            If you usually like <opt>focuscontent</opt> but sometimes you'd like to focus the
+            first input field, you can use <k>gi</k> to jump to it.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'fh' 'followhints'</tags>
+    <spec>'followhints' 'fh'</spec>
+    <type>number</type>
+    <default>0</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Change the behaviour of <k name="Return"/> in Hints mode.</p>
+
+        <p>Possible values:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <tr><em>0</em><dd>Follow the first hint as soon as typed text uniquely identifies it.</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>1</em><dd>Follow the selected hint on <k name="Return"/>.</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>2</em><dd>Follow the selected hint on <k name="Return"/> only if it's been <k name="Tab"/>-selected.</dd></tr>
+        </dl>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'nofs' 'nofullscreen' 'fs' 'fullscreen'</tags>
+    <spec>'fullscreen' 'fs'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>off</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Show the current window fullscreen. Also hide certain GUI elements like the
+            statusline.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'go' 'guioptions'</tags>
+    <spec>'guioptions' 'go'</spec>
+    <type>charlist</type>
+    <default>""</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Show or hide certain GUI elements like the menu or toolbar.</p>
+
+        <p>Supported characters:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <tr><em>m</em><dd>Menubar</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>T</em><dd>Toolbar</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>B</em><dd>Bookmark bar</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>n</em><dd>Tab number</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>N</em><dd>Tab number over image</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>b</em><dd>Bottom scrollbar</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>r</em><dd>Right scrollbar</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>l</em><dd>Left scrollbar (<em>l</em> and <em>r</em> are mutually exclusive)</dd></tr>
+        </dl>
+
+        <p>You can also hide the tab bar with <ex>:set showtabline=0</ex>.</p>
+
+        <note>Scrollbar changes require a page reload to take effect.</note>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'hf' 'helpfile'</tags>
+    <spec>'helpfile' 'hf'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>"intro.html"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Name of the main help file. This is the tail component of the chrome URL as
+            displayed in the status line when viewing the page.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'hin' 'hintinputs'</tags>
+    <spec>'hintinputs' 'hin'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default>"label,value"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            When generating hints for input elements that do not have an explicit caption,
+            this specifies the methods to try and generate a textual hint. It tries the
+            options in the order that you give, and uses the first that it finds.
+        </p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <tr><em>value</em><dd>The hint is the value displayed in a text input, or the selected option for a dropdown.</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>label</em><dd>The value of an explicit label for the input, this will not match most manually added labels that are found on sites.</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>name </em><dd>The name of the input will be used, although the name is not designed for user consumption, it is frequently very similar to the label.</dd></tr>
+        </dl>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'hm' 'hintmatching'</tags>
+    <spec>'hintmatching' 'hm'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>contains</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Change the hint matching algorithm during Hints mode.</p>
+
+        <p>Possible values:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <tr><em>contains      </em><dd>The typed characters are split on whitespace, and these character groups have to match anywhere inside the text of the link.</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>wordstartswith</em><dd>The typed characters are matched with the beginning of the first word (see <opt>wordseparators</opt>) in the link as long as possible. If no matches occur in the current word, then the matching is continued at the beginning of the next word. The words are worked through in the order they appear in the link. If the typed characters contain spaces, then the characters are split on whitespace. These character groups are then matched with the beginning of the words, beginning at the first one and continuing with the following words in the order they appear in the link.</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>firstletters  </em><dd>Behaves like wordstartswith, but non-matching words aren't overleaped.</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>custom        </em><dd>Delegate to a custom function: liberator.plugins.customHintMatcher(hintString)</dd></tr>
+        </dl>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'ht' 'hinttags'</tags>
+    <spec>'hinttags' 'ht'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>
+        //*[@onclick or @onmouseover or @onmousedown or @onmouseup or @oncommand or @class='lk' or @role='link'] |
+        //input[not(@type='hidden')] | //a | //area | //iframe | //textarea | //button | //select |
+        //xhtml:input[not(@type='hidden')] | //xhtml:a | //xhtml:area | //xhtml:iframe |
+        //xhtml:textarea | //xhtml:button | //xhtml:select
+    </default>
+    <description>
+        <p>XPath string of hintable elements activated by <k>f</k> and <k>F</k></p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'hto' 'hinttimeout'</tags>
+    <spec>'hinttimeout' 'hto'</spec>
+    <type>number</type>
+    <default>0</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Timeout before automatically following a non-unique numerical hint. Set to 0
+            (the default) to only follow numeric hints after pressing <k name="Return"/> or
+            when the hint is unique.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'hi' 'history'</tags>
+    <spec>'history' 'hi'</spec>
+    <type>number</type>
+    <default>500</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Number of Ex commands and search patterns to store in the command-line history.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'noprivate' 'private'</tags>
+    <spec>'private'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>off</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Set the <str>private browsing</str> option. In private browsing mode history, cache
+            files, cookies, form data, passwords, download list entries, local and URL
+            marks, command-line history and macros are available only for the duration of
+            the private browsing session and deleted when returning to normal browsing
+            mode.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'nohls' 'nohlsearch' 'hls' 'hlsearch'</tags>
+    <spec>'hlsearch' 'hls'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>off</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Highlight previous search pattern matches</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'noic' 'noignorecase' 'ic' 'ignorecase'</tags>
+    <spec>'ignorecase' 'ic'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>on</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Ignore case in search patterns.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'nois' 'noincsearch' 'is' 'incsearch'</tags>
+    <spec>'incsearch' 'is'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>on</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Show where the search pattern matches as it is typed.</p>
+
+        <note>Incremental searching currently only works in the forward direction.</note>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'noim' 'noinsertmode' 'im' 'insertmode'</tags>
+    <spec>'insertmode' 'im'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>on</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Use Insert mode as the default for text areas. This is useful if you want to
+            use the known &hostapp; interface for editing text areas. Input fields default to
+            this behaviour irrespective of this option's setting.
+        </p>
+
+        <p>
+            Textarea mode can be entered with <em>&lt;C-t></em> from Insert mode.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+<!-- TODO: <C-t> is not hyperlinked as it's not documented yet. -->
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'ls' 'laststatus'</tags>
+    <spec>'laststatus' 'ls'</spec>
+    <type>number</type>
+    <default>2</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Determines when the last window will have a status line.</p>
+
+        <p>Possible values:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <tr><em>0</em><dd>Never</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>1</em><dd>Only if there are multiple windows</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>2</em><dd>Always</dd></tr>
+        </dl>
+
+        <note>laststatus=1 not implemented yet.</note>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'nolks' 'nolinksearch' 'lks' 'linksearch'</tags>
+    <spec>'linksearch' 'lks'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>off</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Limit the search to hyperlink text.
+            This includes (X)HTML elements with an <str>href</str> atrribute and XLink <str>simple</str> links.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'nolpl' 'lpl' 'noloadplugins' 'loadplugins'</tags>
+    <spec>'loadplugins' 'lpl'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>on</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Load plugin scripts when starting up. When on, yet unloaded plugins are
+            automatically loaded after the vimperatorrc file has been sourced. To
+            load plugins earlier, use the <ex>:loadplugins</ex> command within the
+            vimperatorrc.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'maxitems'</tags>
+    <spec>'maxitems'</spec>
+    <type>number</type>
+    <default>20</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Maximum number of items to display at once in a listing.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'msgs' 'messages'</tags>
+    <spec>'messages' 'msgs'</spec>
+    <type>number</type>
+    <default>100</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Number of messages to store in the message history.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'nomore' 'more'</tags>
+    <spec>'more'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>on</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Pause the message list window when more than one screen of listings is displayed.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'nextpattern'</tags>
+    <spec>'nextpattern'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default>\bnext,^>$,^(>>|?)$,^(>|?),(>|?)$,\bmore\b</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Patterns to use when guessing the <opt>next</opt> page in a document sequence when the
+            user hits <ex>]]</ex>. Each pattern, in order, is matched against all links in the
+            page with the first match being used. The patterns are case insensitive regular
+            expressions and the link elements are those defined by <opt>hinttags</opt>.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'newtab'</tags>
+    <spec>'newtab'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default>""</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Define which Ex commands output the result in a new tab automatically. You can
+            also use <ex>:tab command</ex> to manually output a command in a new tab.
+        </p>
+
+        <p>The possible values:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <tr><em>all       </em><dd>All commands</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>addons    </em><dd><ex>:addo[ns]</ex> command</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>downloads </em><dd><ex>:downl[oads]</ex> command</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>extoptions</em><dd><ex>:exto[ptions]</ex> command</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>help      </em><dd><ex>:h[elp]</ex> command</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>javascript</em><dd><ex>:javascript!</ex> or <ex>:js!</ex> command</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>prefs     </em><dd><ex>:pref[erences]!</ex> or <ex>:prefs!</ex> command</dd></tr>
+        </dl>
+
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'noonline' 'online'</tags>
+    <spec>'online'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>on</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Show and set the 'work offline' behavior.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'pageinfo' 'pa'</tags>
+    <spec>'pageinfo' 'pa'</spec>
+
+    <type>charlist</type>
+    <default>gfm</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Desired info in the <ex>:pageinfo</ex> output.</p>
+
+        <p>Available items:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <tr><em>g</em><dd>General info</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>f</em><dd>Feeds</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>m</em><dd>Meta tags</dd></tr>
+        </dl>
+
+        <p>
+            The order of the options defines the order in which they appear in
+            the result.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'pps' 'popups'</tags>
+    <spec>'popups' 'pps'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default>tab</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Define where to show requested popup windows.
+            Does not apply to windows which are opened by middle clicking a link,
+            they always open in a new tab.
+        </p>
+
+        <p>Possible values:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <tr><em>tab     </em><dd>Open popups in a new tab</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>window  </em><dd>Open popups in a new window</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>resized </em><dd>Open resized popups in a new window</dd></tr>
+        </dl>
+
+        <p>
+            If neither <em>tab</em> nor <em>window</em> is provided, all popups open in the current tab.
+            <em>tab</em> and <em>window</em> are mutually exclusive, and the last one listed is
+            effective.
+        </p>
+
+        <note>This option does not change the popup blocker of &hostapp; in any way.</note>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'previouspattern'</tags>
+    <spec>'previouspattern'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default><![CDATA[\bprev|previous\b,^<$,^(<<|?)$,^(<|?),(<|?)$]]></default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Patterns to use when guessing the <opt>previous</opt> page in a document sequence when
+            the user hits <ex>[[</ex>. Each pattern, in order, is matched against all links
+            in the page with the first match being used. The patterns are case insensitive
+            regular expressions and the link elements are those defined by <opt>hinttags</opt>.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>$VIMPERATOR_RUNTIME</tags>
+    <tags>'rtp' 'runtimepath'</tags>
+    <spec>'runtimepath' 'rtp'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default>_$VIMPERATOR_RUNTIME_ or $$Unix, Mac: "~/.vimperator", Windows: "~/vimperator"$$</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>List of directories searched for runtime files:</p>
+
+        <ul>
+            <li>colors/</li>
+            <li>macros/</li>
+            <li>plugin/</li>
+        </ul>
+
+        <p>Example:</p>
+
+        <code><ex>:set runtimepath=$$~/myvimperator,~/.vimperator$$</ex></code>
+
+        <p>
+            This will search for plugins in both
+            <str>~/myvimperator/plugin</str> and
+            <str>~/.vimperator/plugin</str>
+        </p>
+
+        <p>
+            On startup, if the environment variable _$VIMPERATOR_RUNTIME_ does not
+            exist, &appname; will set it to match this value.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'si' 'sanitizeitems'</tags>
+    <spec>'sanitizeitems' 'si'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default>"cache,commandline,cookies,formdata,history,marks,sessions"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>The default list of private items to sanitize.</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <tr><em>cache       </em><dd>Cache</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>commandline </em><dd>Command-line history</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>cookies     </em><dd>Cookies</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>downloads   </em><dd>Download history</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>formdata    </em><dd>Saved form and search history</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>history     </em><dd>Browsing history</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>marks       </em><dd>Local and URL marks</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>macros      </em><dd>Saved macros</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>offlineapps </em><dd>Offline website data</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>passwords   </em><dd>Saved passwords</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>sessions    </em><dd>Authenticated sessions</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>sitesettings</em><dd>Site preferences</dd></tr>
+        </dl>
+
+        <p>
+            When history items are sanitized <ex>:open</ex>, <ex>:tabopen</ex> and <ex>:winopen</ex>
+            command-line history entries are also removed.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'sts' 'sanitizetimespan'</tags>
+    <spec>'sanitizetimespan' 'sts'</spec>
+    <type>number</type>
+    <default>1</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            The default sanitizer time span. Only items created within this timespan are
+            deleted.
+        </p>
+
+        <note>This only applies to <em>cookies</em>, <em>history</em>, <em>formdata</em>, and <em>downloads</em>.</note>
+
+        <dl>
+            <tr><em>0</em><dd>Everything</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>1</em><dd>Last hour</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>2</em><dd>Last two hours</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>3</em><dd>Last four hours</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>4</em><dd>Today</dd></tr>
+        </dl>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'scr' 'scroll'</tags>
+    <spec>'scroll' 'scr'</spec>
+    <type>number</type>
+    <default>0</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Number of lines to scroll with <k name="C-u"/> and <k name="C-d"/> commands.
+            The number of lines scrolled defaults to half the window size.
+            When a [count] is specified to the <k name="C-u"/> or <k name="C-d"/> commands this is
+            used to set the value of <opt>scroll</opt> and also used for the current command. The
+            value can be reset to half the window height with <ex>:set scroll=0</ex>.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'shell' 'sh'</tags>
+    <spec>'shell' 'sh'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>_$SHELL_ or "sh", Win32: "cmd.exe"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Shell to use for executing <ex>:!</ex> and <ex>:run</ex> commands.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'shellcmdflag' 'shcf'</tags>
+    <spec>'shellcmdflag' 'shcf'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>"-c", Win32: "/c"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Flag passed to shell when executing <ex>:!</ex> and <ex>:run</ex> commands.</p>
+
+        <example><str>bash -c gvim</str></example>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'nosmd' 'noshowmode' 'smd' 'showmode'</tags>
+    <spec>'showmode' 'smd'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>on</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Show the current mode in the command line.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'ssli' 'showstatuslinks'</tags>
+    <spec>'showstatuslinks' 'ssli'</spec>
+    <type>number</type>
+    <default>1</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Show the destination of the link under the cursor in the status bar.
+            Also links which are focused by keyboard commands like <k name="Tab"/> are shown. Possible values:
+        </p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <tr><em>0</em><dd>Don't show link destination</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>1</em><dd>Show the link in the status line</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>2</em><dd>Show the link in the command line</dd></tr>
+        </dl>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'stal' 'showtabline'</tags>
+    <spec>'showtabline' 'stal'</spec>
+    <type>number</type>
+    <default>2</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Control when to show the tab bar of opened web pages.</p>
+
+        <p>Possible values:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <tr><em>0</em><dd>Never show tab bar</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>1</em><dd>Show tab bar only if more than one tab is open</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>2</em><dd>Always show tab bar</dd></tr>
+        </dl>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'noscs' 'nosmartcase' 'scs' 'smartcase'</tags>
+    <spec>'smartcase' 'scs'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>on</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Override the <opt>ignorecase</opt> option if the pattern contains uppercase characters.
+            This is only used if the <opt>ignorecase</opt> option is set.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'suggestengines'</tags>
+    <spec>'suggestengines'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default>"google"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Set the search engines which can be used for completion suggestions.
+            Add <str>S</str> to the <opt>complete</opt> option if you want to use this feature.
+        </p>
+
+        <warning>
+            This feature could make tab-completion slower because it needs to
+            wait for changes, so use it only if you have a fast internet connection.
+        </warning>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'titlestring'</tags>
+    <spec>'titlestring'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>"&appname;"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Change the title of the browser window.
+            &appname; changes the browser title from <str>Title of web page - Mozilla &hostapp;</str> to
+            <str>Title of web page - &appname;</str>.
+            If you don't like that, you can restore it with:
+            <ex>:set titlestring=Mozilla\ &hostapp;</ex>.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'noum' 'nousermode' 'um' 'usermode'</tags>
+    <spec>'usermode' 'um'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>off</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Show current website with a minimal style sheet to make it easily accessible.
+        </p>
+
+        <note>
+            this is a local option for now, a global value may be supported in the future.
+        </note>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'urlseparator'</tags>
+    <spec>'urlseparator'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>",\s"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Set the separator regex used to separate multiple URL args. Multiple arguments
+            can be specified for <ex>:open</ex>, and similar commands, using this regex as
+            the separator. Using whitespace alone is not generally useful since it is often
+            contained in a single argument. E.g., <ex>:open linus torvalds</ex> should perform
+            a single search for the key words <str>linus</str> and <str>torvalds</str>. If this is set to the
+            empty string then these arguments will never be split.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'verbose', 'vbs'</tags>
+    <spec>'verbose' 'vbs'</spec>
+    <type>number</type>
+    <default>1</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Define which info messages are displayed.
+            When bigger than zero, &appname; will give messages about what it is doing.
+            These can be viewed at any time with the <ex>:messages</ex> command. The highest
+            value is 15, being the most verbose mode.
+
+            <!-- TODO: list levels and associated messages -->
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'novb' 'novisualbell' 'vb' 'visualbell'</tags>
+    <spec>'visualbell' 'vb'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>off</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Use visual bell instead of beeping on errors. The visual bell style is
+            controlled by <ex>:hi Bell</ex>.
+        </p>
+
+        <p>
+            To disable both the audible and visual bells use <ex>:set visualbell</ex>
+            and <ex>:hi Bell display: none;</ex>
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'wildcase' 'wic'</tags>
+    <spec>'wildcase' 'wic'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>"smart"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Defines how completions are matched with regard to character case. Possible values:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <tr><str>smart</str> <dd>Case is significant when capital letters are typed</dd></tr>
+            <tr><str>match</str> <dd>Case is always significant</dd></tr>
+            <tr><str>ignore</str><dd>Case is never significant</dd></tr>
+        </dl>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'wildignore' 'wig'</tags>
+    <spec>'wildignore' 'wig'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default>""</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            List of file patterns to ignore when completing files. E.g., to ignore object
+            files and Vim swap files <ex>:set wildignore=<str>.<em>\.o,\..</em>\.s[a-z]\\<a>2</a></str></ex>
+        </p>
+
+        <note>Unlike Vim each pattern is a regex rather than a glob.</note>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'wim' 'wildmode'</tags>
+    <spec>'wildmode' 'wim'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default>"list:full"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Defines how command-line completion works.
+            It is a comma-separated list of parts, where each part specifies
+            what to do for each consecutive use of the completion key.
+            The first part specifies the behavior for the first use of the completion key,
+            the second part for the second use, etc.
+        </p>
+
+        <p>These are the possible values for each part:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <tr><str></str>             <dd>Complete only the first match.</dd></tr>
+            <tr><str>full</str>         <dd>Complete the next full match. After the last, the original string is used.</dd></tr>
+            <tr><str>longest</str>      <dd>Complete till the longest common string.</dd></tr>
+            <tr><str>list</str>         <dd>When more than one match, list all matches.</dd></tr>
+            <tr><str>list:full</str>    <dd>When more than one match, list all matches and complete the first match.</dd></tr>
+            <tr><str>list:longest</str> <dd>When more than one match, list all matches and complete till
+                             the longest common string. When there is only a single match,
+                             it is fully completed regardless of the case.</dd></tr>
+        </dl>
+
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'wop' 'wildoptions'</tags>
+    <spec>'wildoptions' 'wop'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default>""</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>A list of words that change how command-line completion is done.</p>
+
+        <p>Possible words:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <tr><em>auto</em><dd>Automatically show completions while you are typing.</dd></tr>
+            <tr><em>sort</em><dd>Always sort the completion list, overriding the <opt>complete</opt> option.</dd></tr>
+        </dl>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'wsp' 'wordseparators'</tags>
+    <spec>'wordseparators' 'wsp'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default><![CDATA[[\.,!\?:;/\\"\^\$%&?\(\)\[\]\\<a>\\</a><>#\\*\+\\|=~ _\\-]]]></default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            A regex which defines the word separators which are used for the
+            <opt>hintmatching</opt> types <str>wordstartswith</str> and "firstletters" to split the words in
+            the text of a link.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+</document>
+<!-- vim:se sts=4 sw=4 et: -->

From dougkearns at gmail.com  Wed Oct 21 21:02:05 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:02:05 +1100
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH 0 of 1] Towards replacing asciidoc.
In-Reply-To: <20091022034619.GC23287@jg>
References: <patchbomb.1256174233@localhost.localdomain>
	<644fc65e0910212008q27873b36ua086b2490ebd4e0c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20091022034619.GC23287@jg>
Message-ID: <644fc65e0910212102o506ab7b6u734c2d14e3977928@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 02:08:33PM +1100, Doug Kearns wrote:
>>
>> Am I overlooking the esoteric humour in your subject or is the patch
>> intentionally missing?
>
> Well, it was supposed to have been posted as a reply. It shows up in my
> mailer, too, but I recieved a bounce message. Can't explain it. It's
> attached.

Thanks.

The reply-to header is often strange for mails to this list, maybe
you're overlooking that?  I saw a vimperator at mozdev.mozdev.org the
other day for example.

Doug

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Wed Oct 21 21:39:19 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 00:39:19 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH 0 of 1] Towards replacing asciidoc.
In-Reply-To: <644fc65e0910212102o506ab7b6u734c2d14e3977928@mail.gmail.com>
References: <patchbomb.1256174233@localhost.localdomain>
	<644fc65e0910212008q27873b36ua086b2490ebd4e0c@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091022034619.GC23287@jg>
	<644fc65e0910212102o506ab7b6u734c2d14e3977928@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091022043919.GD23287@jg>

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 03:02:05PM +1100, Doug Kearns wrote:
>> Well, it was supposed to have been posted as a reply. It shows up in my
>> mailer, too, but I recieved a bounce message. Can't explain it. It's
>> attached.
>
>Thanks.
>
>The reply-to header is often strange for mails to this list, maybe
>you're overlooking that?  I saw a vimperator at mozdev.mozdev.org the
>other day for example.

Nope, I used patchbomb. It just uses the Message-Id to generate 
an In-Reply-To header. Shouldn't make a difference. I think the 
problem is that the new sendmail-ish smtp client I just 
installed--"the no-brainer SMTP client--is more like the 
brainless smtp client and read the To: part at the end of the 
In-Reply-To: header as a To: header. That's so shockingly 
incompetent that I suppose I'll have to switch.

-- 
Kris Maglione

Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted
was once eccentric.
	--Bertrand Russell


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Wed Oct 21 22:01:59 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 01:01:59 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
Message-ID: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>

So, after some weeks with Google Sites, its warts are becoming 
rather more annoying than its conveniences make up for. 
SourceForge provides free hosting, with full discretion to the 
developers, of static content and/or web apps, with full ssh and 
ftp access and no arbitrary limits. It also allows for virtual 
hosting, meaning we can use whichever domain we want. I've 
created a project, and dumped a proof-of-concept site, 
desparately in need of polish:

     http://vimperator.sourceforge.net/vimperator.xml

Martin, Doug, and Daniel, mail me your SourceForge IDs and I'll 
add you as project owners. I think, regardless of whether we 
move the web site there (and I think we should), we should keep 
the SourceForge stub project up, in case anyone happens to 
stumble upon us there.

-- 
Kris Maglione

Doing linear scans over an associative array is like trying to club
someone to death with a loaded Uzi.
	--Larry Wall


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Wed Oct 21 22:14:57 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 01:14:57 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
Message-ID: <20091022051456.GF23287@jg>

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 01:01:59AM -0400, Kris Maglione wrote:
>So, after some weeks with Google Sites, its warts are becoming rather 
>more annoying than its conveniences make up for.

I've incidentally noticed another annoyance with the Google 
Site. The screenshot thumbnails are generated dynamically?as are 
quite a few other images on the site. I don't especially mind 
it, as such, except that they all use query strings, which break 
Firefox's default caching algorithm, so they're loaded on 
*every* page load.

-- 
Kris Maglione

[As for the <BLINK> tag,] it was a joke, okay?  If we thought it would
actually be used, we wouldn't have written it!
	--Mark Andreessen


From now at bitwi.se  Thu Oct 22 00:37:24 2009
From: now at bitwi.se (Nikolai Weibull)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 09:37:24 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH 0 of 1] Towards replacing asciidoc.
In-Reply-To: <20091022034619.GC23287@jg>
References: <patchbomb.1256174233@localhost.localdomain>
	<644fc65e0910212008q27873b36ua086b2490ebd4e0c@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091022034619.GC23287@jg>
Message-ID: <dbfc82860910220037s580fba2dj887e659c3ba4de93@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 05:46, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well, it was supposed to have been posted as a reply. It shows up in my
> mailer, too, but I recieved a bounce message. Can't explain it. It's
> attached.

There seems to be some problems with your markup.

<!DOCTYPE overlay SYSTEM "liberator.dtd" [
:
:
<document

Shouldn?t that be ?<!DOCTYPE document ???

Why are you matching against ?*[name()='document']? instead of ?document??

Why

<tags>:set :se</tags>

and not

<tags><tag>:set</tag><tag>:se</tag></tags>

more than the obvious ?it?s less typing and it?s less XML??

<dl>
    <tr><em>boolean   </em><dd>can only be on or off</dd></tr>

doesn?t feel very XMLish to me.

<dl>
  <dt>boolean</dt>
  <dd>can only be on or off</dd>
</dl>

would make more sense to me, but I guess this is something already set
up in liberator.dtd.

I guess things like ?[...]? could either be a tag or an entity, but I
guess we?d seldom want to mess with it.  Still, say that we want to
render it in gray instead of the default color.

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Thu Oct 22 01:07:51 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 04:07:51 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH 0 of 1] Towards replacing asciidoc.
In-Reply-To: <dbfc82860910220037s580fba2dj887e659c3ba4de93@mail.gmail.com>
References: <patchbomb.1256174233@localhost.localdomain>
	<644fc65e0910212008q27873b36ua086b2490ebd4e0c@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091022034619.GC23287@jg>
	<dbfc82860910220037s580fba2dj887e659c3ba4de93@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091022080751.GG23287@jg>

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 09:37:24AM +0200, Nikolai Weibull wrote:
>There seems to be some problems with your markup.
>
><!DOCTYPE overlay SYSTEM "liberator.dtd" [
>:
>:
><document
>
>Shouldn?t that be ?<!DOCTYPE document ???

Ignore it, it will be replaced with an actual DTD when I'm done.

>Why are you matching against ?*[name()='document']? instead of ?document??

Because I used a namespace and 'document' doesn't match.

>Why
>
><tags>:set :se</tags>
>
>and not
>
><tags><tag>:set</tag><tag>:se</tag></tags>
>
>more than the obvious ?it?s less typing and it?s less XML??

No, just the obvious. That's reason enough to me, and that I can 
actually read the former.

><dl>
>    <tr><em>boolean   </em><dd>can only be on or off</dd></tr>
>
>doesn?t feel very XMLish to me.

Good.

><dl>
>  <dt>boolean</dt>
>  <dd>can only be on or off</dd>
></dl>
>
>would make more sense to me, but I guess this is something already set
>up in liberator.dtd.

CSS tables don't work that way and I didn't feel like wrangling 
with the box model.

>I guess things like ?[...]? could either be a tag or an entity, but I
>guess we?d seldom want to mess with it.  Still, say that we want to
>render it in gray instead of the default color.

I thought about it, but I'm not done yet. I wanted feedback 
before I went any further.

-- 
Kris Maglione

A language that doesn't have everything is actually easier to program
in than some that do.
	--Dennis M. Ritchie


From now at bitwi.se  Thu Oct 22 01:47:16 2009
From: now at bitwi.se (Nikolai Weibull)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 10:47:16 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH 0 of 1] Towards replacing asciidoc.
In-Reply-To: <20091022080751.GG23287@jg>
References: <patchbomb.1256174233@localhost.localdomain>
	<644fc65e0910212008q27873b36ua086b2490ebd4e0c@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091022034619.GC23287@jg>
	<dbfc82860910220037s580fba2dj887e659c3ba4de93@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091022080751.GG23287@jg>
Message-ID: <dbfc82860910220147sdbf68b0qb96973360184f93c@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 10:07, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 09:37:24AM +0200, Nikolai Weibull wrote:

>> Why are you matching against ?*[name()='document']? instead of ?document??
>
> Because I used a namespace and 'document' doesn't match.

Well, I don?t see how that would work, as name() returns the
namespaced name.  Local-name() would be what you would want, but why
not simply use the namespace, for example, liberator:document?

>> <dl>
>> ?<dt>boolean</dt>
>> ?<dd>can only be on or off</dd>
>> </dl>

This would also allow you to skip the em stuff, as you?d simply style
the dt element.

>> would make more sense to me, but I guess this is something already set
>> up in liberator.dtd.

> CSS tables don't work that way and I didn't feel like wrangling with the box
> model.

Yes, but why are you mixing lists and tables?  Dl is a definition
list, is it not?  You can always generate a table from the list
anyway.

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Thu Oct 22 01:59:42 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 04:59:42 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH 0 of 1] Towards replacing asciidoc.
In-Reply-To: <dbfc82860910220147sdbf68b0qb96973360184f93c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <patchbomb.1256174233@localhost.localdomain>
	<644fc65e0910212008q27873b36ua086b2490ebd4e0c@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091022034619.GC23287@jg>
	<dbfc82860910220037s580fba2dj887e659c3ba4de93@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091022080751.GG23287@jg>
	<dbfc82860910220147sdbf68b0qb96973360184f93c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091022085942.GH23287@jg>

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 10:47:16AM +0200, Nikolai Weibull wrote:
>>> Why are you matching against ?*[name()='document']? instead of ?document??
>>
>> Because I used a namespace and 'document' doesn't match.
>
>Well, I don?t see how that would work, as name() returns the
>namespaced name.  Local-name() would be what you would want, but why
>not simply use the namespace, for example, liberator:document?

You have too much faith in Gecko's XSLT and XPath support. 
name(), in this case, returns the local name. I didn't use 
liberator:document because, at first, it was causing the XML 
parser to blow up. It works fine now.

>>> <dl>
>>> ?<dt>boolean</dt>
>>> ?<dd>can only be on or off</dd>
>>> </dl>
>
>This would also allow you to skip the em stuff, as you?d simply style
>the dt element.

It would, and I'd be happy with that, but the shortest path to a 
prototype was something which mapped directly to CSS tables. 
At any rate, the form I chose was more "XML", or at least HTML 
like for tabular data. The XML people love superflous elements, 
in my experience. Regardless, the <em/> tags are there on 
purpose.

>>> would make more sense to me, but I guess this is something already set
>>> up in liberator.dtd.
>
>> CSS tables don't work that way and I didn't feel like wrangling with the box
>> model.
>
>Yes, but why are you mixing lists and tables?  Dl is a definition
>list, is it not?  You can always generate a table from the list
>anyway.

It doesn't make sense, I won't pretend it does. It's called a 
prototype. And bear in mind that these aren't HTML elements, 
they're fairly arbitrary, I was just grabbing for familiar 
names.

I could, in theory, generate markup more suitable for an HTML 
table, maybe I will. I don't care very much about that 
particular at the moment.

-- 
Kris Maglione

I'm confident that tomorrow's Unix will look like today's Unix, only
cruftier.
	--Russ Cox


From dougkearns at gmail.com  Thu Oct 22 02:36:59 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 20:36:59 +1100
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH 0 of 1] Towards replacing asciidoc.
In-Reply-To: <patchbomb.1256174233@localhost.localdomain>
References: <patchbomb.1256174233@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <644fc65e0910220236h1e80945ct11b7b0cd0be11b78@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 12:17 PM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> This is an experimental attempt at replacing the asciidoc help
> with an XML/XSLT-based help format.

XML?  Ugh!  I'm a bit ambivalent - let me let it soak in. :)

> There are some other side benefits, which solve issues that
> have bugging me for ages. The XML documents are easily mangled
> by Gecko such that they reflect the actual liberated app that
> they're viewed in. We can set entities like &hostapp; and
> &appname; to take care of Firefox and Vimperator references.
> Then, above and beyond that, we can use overlays, XSLT, or DOM
> manipulation to splice in extension-specific entries. That
> should very much ease the pain of maintaining three sets of
> documents with >90% overlap.

Yes, every time I go to document the redheaded bastard stepchild I seem
to find something much more interesting to do.

> Also of importance is that I've moved the help formatting into
> the highlighting system. I think we should do this regardless
> of what help format we continue with.

+1 (in spirit anyway)

Doug

From dougkearns at gmail.com  Thu Oct 22 02:51:16 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 20:51:16 +1100
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
Message-ID: <644fc65e0910220251x54f93eefm75f512e5271bc1c7@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
> So, after some weeks with Google Sites, its warts are becoming rather more
> annoying than its conveniences make up for. SourceForge provides free
> hosting, with full discretion to the developers, of static content and/or
> web apps, with full ssh and ftp access and no arbitrary limits. It also
> allows for virtual hosting, meaning we can use whichever domain we want.
> I've created a project, and dumped a proof-of-concept site, desparately in
> need of polish:
>
> ? ?http://vimperator.sourceforge.net/vimperator.xml
>
> Martin, Doug, and Daniel, mail me your SourceForge IDs and I'll add you as
> project owners.

Ooh, controversial!

dkearns

Doug

From dougkearns at gmail.com  Thu Oct 22 02:58:37 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 20:58:37 +1100
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
Message-ID: <644fc65e0910220258i52703ed3g9483771231498f21@mail.gmail.com>

FWIW, it seems to me that SF is now pretty usable again in Vimperator.
It went through a nasty ajaxification phase where it didn't seem to
work very well.  Either that or Vimperator is improved.

Doug

From now at bitwi.se  Thu Oct 22 03:07:12 2009
From: now at bitwi.se (Nikolai Weibull)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 12:07:12 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <644fc65e0910220258i52703ed3g9483771231498f21@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
	<644fc65e0910220258i52703ed3g9483771231498f21@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dbfc82860910220307l6b9321f3j870f641b4d10a6b6@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 11:58, Doug Kearns <dougkearns at gmail.com> wrote:
> FWIW, it seems to me that SF is now pretty usable again in Vimperator.
> It went through a nasty ajaxification phase where it didn't seem to
> work very well. ?Either that or Vimperator is improved.

It?s still a steaming pile of shit, but so are most hosting services.
Why is it so hard to make things usable?  Why must every site cripple
itself by having links, buttons, borders, colors, and images
everywhere?  Why must every site have ?Share? buttons?  Why do people
use Twitter?  Why does everyone but me and a select few seem to be
utterly retarded?

Was that a rant?

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Thu Oct 22 03:25:05 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 06:25:05 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <dbfc82860910220307l6b9321f3j870f641b4d10a6b6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
	<644fc65e0910220258i52703ed3g9483771231498f21@mail.gmail.com>
	<dbfc82860910220307l6b9321f3j870f641b4d10a6b6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091022102505.GI23287@jg>

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 12:07:12PM +0200, Nikolai Weibull wrote:
>On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 11:58, Doug Kearns <dougkearns at gmail.com> wrote:
>> FWIW, it seems to me that SF is now pretty usable again in Vimperator.
>> It went through a nasty ajaxification phase where it didn't seem to
>> work very well. ?Either that or Vimperator is improved.
>
>It?s still a steaming pile of shit, but so are most hosting services.
>Why is it so hard to make things usable?  Why must every site cripple
>itself by having links, buttons, borders, colors, and images
>everywhere?  Why must every site have ?Share? buttons?  Why do people
>use Twitter?  Why does everyone but me and a select few seem to be
>utterly retarded?
>
>Was that a rant?

Yes, but a well received one. :)

-- 
Kris Maglione

Programming X Windows is like trying to find the square root of Pi
using roman numerals.
	--Henry Spencer


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Thu Oct 22 03:27:43 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 06:27:43 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <644fc65e0910220258i52703ed3g9483771231498f21@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
	<644fc65e0910220258i52703ed3g9483771231498f21@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091022102743.GJ23287@jg>

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 08:58:37PM +1100, Doug Kearns wrote:
>FWIW, it seems to me that SF is now pretty usable again in Vimperator.
>It went through a nasty ajaxification phase where it didn't seem to
>work very well.  Either that or Vimperator is improved.

Yep, it has. It's better than the pre-AJAXification stage, too.  
It's still an ugly, messy pain in the ass, though. Did you know 
that they offer no less than 5 badly integrated issue trackers?  
And admin tasks are still a pain in the ass. "Trove" software 
catigorization still takes about 15 minutes (though it used to 
take more like 25). Still, at least now we have more SCCS 
choices than CVS.

-- 
Kris Maglione

Microsoft is not the answer.  Microsoft is the question.  NO is the
answer.
	--Eric Naggum


From dougkearns at gmail.com  Thu Oct 22 03:28:28 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 21:28:28 +1100
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <dbfc82860910220307l6b9321f3j870f641b4d10a6b6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
	<644fc65e0910220258i52703ed3g9483771231498f21@mail.gmail.com> 
	<dbfc82860910220307l6b9321f3j870f641b4d10a6b6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <644fc65e0910220328k71f5fa18u822d0a1c53fee218@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 9:07 PM, Nikolai Weibull <now at bitwi.se> wrote:
> It?s still a steaming pile of shit, but so are most hosting services.
> Why is it so hard to make things usable? ?Why must every site cripple
> itself by having links, buttons, borders, colors, and images
> everywhere? ?Why must every site have ?Share? buttons? ?Why do people
> use Twitter? ?Why does everyone but me and a select few seem to be
> utterly retarded?

Nikolai! You're back, I've missed you.

> Was that a rant?

By whose standards? ;-)

Doug

From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Thu Oct 22 04:02:00 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 13:02:00 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <644fc65e0910220328k71f5fa18u822d0a1c53fee218@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
	<644fc65e0910220258i52703ed3g9483771231498f21@mail.gmail.com>
	<dbfc82860910220307l6b9321f3j870f641b4d10a6b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0910220328k71f5fa18u822d0a1c53fee218@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aaae92100910220402m13e0c9b2ybb124a2af078d19f@mail.gmail.com>

If it really allows virtual hosting, so the user sees vimperator.org
as the URL, it would be ok for me to consider.

A few points though:

1.) I think that the Copyright looks really bad down there, I would
move it back where the GC one is, or we could also just move it below
the content box.
Even if we do not move to sourceforge, I'll add your 2 names and the
CC logo to the google sites homepage.

2.) The ads. Probably the most controversial thing in terms whether we
move to SF or not. We could also move them to right of the content
box, so it might interrupt the user even less. Having it above the
content like you suggested would be too annoying to the end user. I,
e.g., don't mind ads when they don't interrupt my workflow or make it
so hard to even find the content.
Also remember that this thread is about a possible move of the web
page, not about whether a free project like vimperator should have ads
or not.

3.) The blog entry functionality would be gone. Not that we will use
that so often, and I guess manually adding a new news entry one the
first page is not that hard anyway ;)

4.) Since we would have full access to css/html we should make a few
changes to the design, but well, I could certainly do that WHEN we
decide where to go. For a simple 1:1 port it looks good.

5.) We should decide on a template system to create those pages

6.) A personal disadvantage would be that I could not make changes to
the web site from work anymore as SSH connections to outside servers
are not allowed here. But once the website is up and running, we won't
have lots of changes anyway.

Anyway, we need to verify the most important point (having
vimperator.org as the domain) first. So please add myself
"maxauthority" to the SF project, then I'll try to see if the virtual
hosting works.

Martin

From now at bitwi.se  Thu Oct 22 04:19:23 2009
From: now at bitwi.se (Nikolai Weibull)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 13:19:23 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <20091022102743.GJ23287@jg>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
	<644fc65e0910220258i52703ed3g9483771231498f21@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091022102743.GJ23287@jg>
Message-ID: <dbfc82860910220419n3b8ae66ft4c211f5ce0a07076@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 12:27, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 08:58:37PM +1100, Doug Kearns wrote:

>> FWIW, it seems to me that SF is now pretty usable again in Vimperator.
>> It went through a nasty ajaxification phase where it didn't seem to
>> work very well. ?Either that or Vimperator is improved.

> Did you know that they offer no less than 5 badly integrated issue trackers?

Ouch.

> "Trove" software catigorization still takes about 15 minutes
> (though it used to take more like 25).

The trove feels very much like the ?90s, somehow.

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Thu Oct 22 04:19:32 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 07:19:32 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <aaae92100910220402m13e0c9b2ybb124a2af078d19f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
	<644fc65e0910220258i52703ed3g9483771231498f21@mail.gmail.com>
	<dbfc82860910220307l6b9321f3j870f641b4d10a6b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0910220328k71f5fa18u822d0a1c53fee218@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaae92100910220402m13e0c9b2ybb124a2af078d19f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091022111932.GK23287@jg>

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 01:02:00PM +0200, Stubenschrott, Martin wrote:
>1.) I think that the Copyright looks really bad down there, I would
>move it back where the GC one is, or we could also just move it below
>the content box.
>Even if we do not move to sourceforge, I'll add your 2 names and the
>CC logo to the google sites homepage.

I rather prefer it there, though the nav menu needs something 
else in its place. It could just as easily go under the content, 
though.

>3.) The blog entry functionality would be gone. Not that we will use
>that so often, and I guess manually adding a new news entry one the
>first page is not that hard anyway ;)

Nope, it's just a gadget. Gadgets work anywhere.

>5.) We should decide on a template system to create those pages

It already has a template system. I tend to use django, though.

>6.) A personal disadvantage would be that I could not make changes to
>the web site from work anymore as SSH connections to outside servers
>are not allowed here. But once the website is up and running, we won't
>have lots of changes anyway.

Not true, they have a web-based editor, but I want to put the 
whole thing under version control, anyway.

>Anyway, we need to verify the most important point (having
>vimperator.org as the domain) first. So please add myself
>"maxauthority" to the SF project, then I'll try to see if the virtual
>hosting works.

It's confirmed, and setup. Point a vimperator.org or 
www.vimperator.org CNAME at vimperator.sourceforge.net and 
everything is set (they say vimperator.org should be IN A 
216.34.181.97, but I don't believe them).

-- 
Kris Maglione

It is a farce to call any being virtuous whose virtues do not result
from the exercise of its own reason.
	--Mary Wollstonecraft


From now at bitwi.se  Thu Oct 22 04:20:11 2009
From: now at bitwi.se (Nikolai Weibull)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 13:20:11 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <644fc65e0910220328k71f5fa18u822d0a1c53fee218@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
	<644fc65e0910220258i52703ed3g9483771231498f21@mail.gmail.com>
	<dbfc82860910220307l6b9321f3j870f641b4d10a6b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0910220328k71f5fa18u822d0a1c53fee218@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dbfc82860910220420t7c4748w5155d6a053598bd2@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 12:28, Doug Kearns <dougkearns at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 9:07 PM, Nikolai Weibull <now at bitwi.se> wrote:
>> It?s still a steaming pile of shit, but so are most hosting services.
>> Why is it so hard to make things usable? ?Why must every site cripple
>> itself by having links, buttons, borders, colors, and images
>> everywhere? ?Why must every site have ?Share? buttons? ?Why do people
>> use Twitter? ?Why does everyone but me and a select few seem to be
>> utterly retarded?

> Nikolai! You're back, I've missed you.

I never truly left ;-).

From dpb at driftaway.org  Thu Oct 22 04:48:16 2009
From: dpb at driftaway.org (Daniel Bainton)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 14:48:16 +0300
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
Message-ID: <dd9711230910220448i1884b9cbv260412345118e258@mail.gmail.com>

2009/10/22 Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com>:
> So, after some weeks with Google Sites, its warts are becoming rather more
> annoying than its conveniences make up for. SourceForge provides free
> hosting, with full discretion to the developers, of static content and/or
> web apps, with full ssh and ftp access and no arbitrary limits. It also
> allows for virtual hosting, meaning we can use whichever domain we want.
> I've created a project, and dumped a proof-of-concept site, desparately in
> need of polish:
>
> ? ?http://vimperator.sourceforge.net/vimperator.xml
>
> Martin, Doug, and Daniel, mail me your SourceForge IDs and I'll add you as
> project owners. I think, regardless of whether we move the web site there
> (and I think we should), we should keep the SourceForge stub project up, in
> case anyone happens to stumble upon us there.


No thanks.

I've been against sourceforge for years now. It's crap, or was when I
started my boycott of it, I don't really care anymore.

Anyway, I just pushed changed to */AUTHORS, moving myself to the
former developers. I haven't done any patches in months, and don't
plan to do any anymore.

Martin, you can remove me from the google code page and the sites page
when you have time.

--
Daniel

Ps. While pushing the changes, it was my first time to push into a
google code project. What a load of crap. There's no info on the pages
about pushing to the repo, tried my many different addresses connected
to my google account, with and without the domain, all the time hg
giving me authorization failed. Pressing lots of links in the google
code page brings me to some settings page that shows me a *generated*
password, no way to set a custom one. Ugh. I'm glad I don't develope
Vimperator anymore, I couldn't stand using that system.

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Thu Oct 22 04:56:42 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 07:56:42 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <dd9711230910220448i1884b9cbv260412345118e258@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
	<dd9711230910220448i1884b9cbv260412345118e258@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091022115642.GL23287@jg>

>I've been against sourceforge for years now. It's crap, or was when I
>started my boycott of it, I don't really care anymore.

Who cares if it's crap? It's a place to dump some files over 
SFTP.

>Ps. While pushing the changes, it was my first time to push into a
>google code project. What a load of crap. There's no info on the pages
>about pushing to the repo, tried my many different addresses connected
>to my google account, with and without the domain, all the time hg
>giving me authorization failed. Pressing lots of links in the google
>code page brings me to some settings page that shows me a *generated*
>password, no way to set a custom one. Ugh. I'm glad I don't develope
>Vimperator anymore, I couldn't stand using that system.

Erm, it says it plain as day:

> hg clone https://vimperator-labs.googlecode.com/hg/ vimperator-labs
>
> To push your changes, authenticate with your Google Account and your generated googlecode.com password. 

You stick the password in the URL, set it as the default push 
repo, and forget about it. Yep, intolerable.

-- 
Kris Maglione

Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to
build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying
to produce bigger and better idiots.  So far, the Universe is winning.
	--Rich Cook


From dpb at driftaway.org  Thu Oct 22 05:26:17 2009
From: dpb at driftaway.org (Daniel Bainton)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:26:17 +0300
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <20091022115642.GL23287@jg>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
	<dd9711230910220448i1884b9cbv260412345118e258@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20091022115642.GL23287@jg>
Message-ID: <dd9711230910220526o57acdde5hbc6e22240766e800@mail.gmail.com>

>> Ps. While pushing the changes, it was my first time to push into a
>> google code project. What a load of crap. There's no info on the pages
>> about pushing to the repo, tried my many different addresses connected
>> to my google account, with and without the domain, all the time hg
>> giving me authorization failed. Pressing lots of links in the google
>> code page brings me to some settings page that shows me a *generated*
>> password, no way to set a custom one. Ugh. I'm glad I don't develope
>> Vimperator anymore, I couldn't stand using that system.
>
> Erm, it says it plain as day:
>
>> hg clone https://vimperator-labs.googlecode.com/hg/ vimperator-labs
>>
>> To push your changes, authenticate with your Google Account and your
>> generated googlecode.com password.

Sure, *if* I login to the site. Otherwise it's nowhere to be found.
Why the hell do I need to login to a site to find such public
information, that I won't even be doing in the site, but in a
terminal.

--
Daniel

From dmishd at gmail.com  Thu Oct 22 05:27:43 2009
From: dmishd at gmail.com (Hamish D)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 13:27:43 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
Message-ID: <2af236e00910220527m2473f28bkbd93156717e2fe57@mail.gmail.com>

>
> So, after some weeks with Google Sites, its warts are becoming rather more
> annoying than its conveniences make up for. SourceForge provides free
> hosting, with full discretion to the developers, of static content and/or
> web apps, with full ssh and ftp access and no arbitrary limits. It also
> allows for virtual hosting, meaning we can use whichever domain we want.
> I've created a project, and dumped a proof-of-concept site, desparately in
> need of polish:
>
>    http://vimperator.sourceforge.net/vimperator.xml
>
> Not sure if this is your problem, but nothing appears in Google Chrome when
I view the site in it - though view source shows the page fine. But that may
just be a problem with Google Chrome and xml pages ...

Hamish
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From maglione.k at gmail.com  Thu Oct 22 05:39:03 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 08:39:03 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <2af236e00910220527m2473f28bkbd93156717e2fe57@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
	<2af236e00910220527m2473f28bkbd93156717e2fe57@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a48155040910220539v3b976fe5k42773d7bb5b23969@mail.gmail.com>

On 2009-10-22, Hamish D <dmishd at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> So, after some weeks with Google Sites, its warts are becoming rather more
>> annoying than its conveniences make up for. SourceForge provides free
>> hosting, with full discretion to the developers, of static content and/or
>> web apps, with full ssh and ftp access and no arbitrary limits. It also
>> allows for virtual hosting, meaning we can use whichever domain we want.
>> I've created a project, and dumped a proof-of-concept site, desparately in
>> need of polish:
>>
>>    http://vimperator.sourceforge.net/vimperator.xml
>>
>> Not sure if this is your problem, but nothing appears in Google Chrome
>> when
> I view the site in it - though view source shows the page fine. But that may
> just be a problem with Google Chrome and xml pages ...

That's because WebKit doesn't do XSLT and I haven't run those pages
through an HTML transform yet.

From dpb at driftaway.org  Thu Oct 22 05:40:21 2009
From: dpb at driftaway.org (Daniel Bainton)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:40:21 +0300
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <2af236e00910220527m2473f28bkbd93156717e2fe57@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
	<2af236e00910220527m2473f28bkbd93156717e2fe57@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dd9711230910220540q6162e490xc676fdd626588dd4@mail.gmail.com>

2009/10/22 Hamish D <dmishd at gmail.com>:
>> So, after some weeks with Google Sites, its warts are becoming rather more
>> annoying than its conveniences make up for. SourceForge provides free
>> hosting, with full discretion to the developers, of static content and/or
>> web apps, with full ssh and ftp access and no arbitrary limits. It also
>> allows for virtual hosting, meaning we can use whichever domain we want.
>> I've created a project, and dumped a proof-of-concept site, desparately in
>> need of polish:
>>
>> ? ?http://vimperator.sourceforge.net/vimperator.xml
>>
> Not sure if this is your problem, but nothing appears in Google Chrome when
> I view the site in it - though view source shows the page fine. But that may
> just be a problem with Google Chrome and xml pages ...
> Hamish

And doesn't even work in Firefox without javascript on. Just shows all
the text without any formatting, making it look like a spam site or
something. Would drive a lot of potential users away surely.

--
Daniel

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Thu Oct 22 05:54:05 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 08:54:05 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <dd9711230910220540q6162e490xc676fdd626588dd4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
	<2af236e00910220527m2473f28bkbd93156717e2fe57@mail.gmail.com>
	<dd9711230910220540q6162e490xc676fdd626588dd4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091022125405.GM23287@jg>

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 03:40:21PM +0300, Daniel Bainton wrote:
>2009/10/22 Hamish D <dmishd at gmail.com>:
>>> So, after some weeks with Google Sites, its warts are becoming rather more
>>> annoying than its conveniences make up for. SourceForge provides free
>>> hosting, with full discretion to the developers, of static content and/or
>>> web apps, with full ssh and ftp access and no arbitrary limits. It also
>>> allows for virtual hosting, meaning we can use whichever domain we want.
>>> I've created a project, and dumped a proof-of-concept site, desparately in
>>> need of polish:
>>>
>>> ? ?http://vimperator.sourceforge.net/vimperator.xml
>>>
>> Not sure if this is your problem, but nothing appears in Google Chrome when
>> I view the site in it - though view source shows the page fine. But that may
>> just be a problem with Google Chrome and xml pages ...
>> Hamish
>
>And doesn't even work in Firefox without javascript on. Just shows all
>the text without any formatting, making it look like a spam site or
>something. Would drive a lot of potential users away surely.

Works for me without javascript. Are you sure you don't mean 
with NoScript enabled? It blocks XSLT for some unimaginable 
reason. At any rate, it's clearly not meant to be permanent.

-- 
Kris Maglione

The world is a tragedy to those who feel, but a comedy to those who
think.
	--Horace Walpole


From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Thu Oct 22 06:20:34 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:20:34 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <dd9711230910220526o57acdde5hbc6e22240766e800@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
	<dd9711230910220448i1884b9cbv260412345118e258@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091022115642.GL23287@jg>
	<dd9711230910220526o57acdde5hbc6e22240766e800@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aaae92100910220620h6c1f212fnd0e6401a95131ee3@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 2:26 PM, Daniel Bainton <dpb at driftaway.org> wrote:
> Sure, *if* I login to the site. Otherwise it's nowhere to be found.
> Why the hell do I need to login to a site to find such public
> information, that I won't even be doing in the site, but in a
> terminal.

If you go to vimperator.org, the "Developer Info" menu entry shows
this information
without the need to log in.

From dpb at driftaway.org  Thu Oct 22 06:36:34 2009
From: dpb at driftaway.org (Daniel Bainton)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:36:34 +0300
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <aaae92100910220620h6c1f212fnd0e6401a95131ee3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
	<dd9711230910220448i1884b9cbv260412345118e258@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20091022115642.GL23287@jg>
	<dd9711230910220526o57acdde5hbc6e22240766e800@mail.gmail.com> 
	<aaae92100910220620h6c1f212fnd0e6401a95131ee3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dd9711230910220636p2e4bba0eu52d90adef2ab4154@mail.gmail.com>

2009/10/22 Stubenschrott, Martin <maxauthority at vimperator.org>:
> On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 2:26 PM, Daniel Bainton <dpb at driftaway.org> wrote:
>> Sure, *if* I login to the site. Otherwise it's nowhere to be found.
>> Why the hell do I need to login to a site to find such public
>> information, that I won't even be doing in the site, but in a
>> terminal.
>
> If you go to vimperator.org, the "Developer Info" menu entry shows
> this information
> without the need to log in.

Surely does not.

"E486: Pattern not found: push"

--
Daniel

From dpb at driftaway.org  Thu Oct 22 06:39:13 2009
From: dpb at driftaway.org (Daniel Bainton)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:39:13 +0300
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <20091022125405.GM23287@jg>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
	<2af236e00910220527m2473f28bkbd93156717e2fe57@mail.gmail.com> 
	<dd9711230910220540q6162e490xc676fdd626588dd4@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20091022125405.GM23287@jg>
Message-ID: <dd9711230910220639y3c7f4abeq35173f75bd46d15c@mail.gmail.com>

2009/10/22 Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com>:
> On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 03:40:21PM +0300, Daniel Bainton wrote:
>>
>> 2009/10/22 Hamish D <dmishd at gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>> So, after some weeks with Google Sites, its warts are becoming rather
>>>> more
>>>> annoying than its conveniences make up for. SourceForge provides free
>>>> hosting, with full discretion to the developers, of static content
>>>> and/or
>>>> web apps, with full ssh and ftp access and no arbitrary limits. It also
>>>> allows for virtual hosting, meaning we can use whichever domain we want.
>>>> I've created a project, and dumped a proof-of-concept site, desparately
>>>> in
>>>> need of polish:
>>>>
>>>> ? ?http://vimperator.sourceforge.net/vimperator.xml
>>>>
>>> Not sure if this is your problem, but nothing appears in Google Chrome
>>> when
>>> I view the site in it - though view source shows the page fine. But that
>>> may
>>> just be a problem with Google Chrome and xml pages ...
>>> Hamish
>>
>> And doesn't even work in Firefox without javascript on. Just shows all
>> the text without any formatting, making it look like a spam site or
>> something. Would drive a lot of potential users away surely.
>
> Works for me without javascript. Are you sure you don't mean with NoScript
> enabled? It blocks XSLT for some unimaginable reason. At any rate, it's
> clearly not meant to be permanent.


Ah right, it's NoScript.

Anyway, I bet lots of potential Vimperator users do use NoScript, it's
the second best Firefox extension out there.

--
Daniel

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Thu Oct 22 06:52:10 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 09:52:10 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <2af236e00910220527m2473f28bkbd93156717e2fe57@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
	<2af236e00910220527m2473f28bkbd93156717e2fe57@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091022135210.GN23287@jg>

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 01:27:43PM +0100, Hamish D wrote:
>>
>> So, after some weeks with Google Sites, its warts are becoming rather more
>> annoying than its conveniences make up for. SourceForge provides free
>> hosting, with full discretion to the developers, of static content and/or
>> web apps, with full ssh and ftp access and no arbitrary limits. It also
>> allows for virtual hosting, meaning we can use whichever domain we want.
>> I've created a project, and dumped a proof-of-concept site, desparately in
>> need of polish:
>>
>>    http://vimperator.sourceforge.net/vimperator.xml
>>
>> Not sure if this is your problem, but nothing appears in Google Chrome when
>I view the site in it - though view source shows the page fine. But that may
>just be a problem with Google Chrome and xml pages ...

Try http://vimperator.sourceforge.net/vimperator.xhtml

-- 
Kris Maglione

Death must be so beautiful.  To lie in the soft brown earth, with the
grasses waving above one's head, and listen to silence.  To have no
yesterday, and no tomorrow.  To forget time, to forgive life, to be at
peace.
	--Oscar Wilde


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Thu Oct 22 06:54:07 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 09:54:07 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <dd9711230910220639y3c7f4abeq35173f75bd46d15c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
	<2af236e00910220527m2473f28bkbd93156717e2fe57@mail.gmail.com>
	<dd9711230910220540q6162e490xc676fdd626588dd4@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091022125405.GM23287@jg>
	<dd9711230910220639y3c7f4abeq35173f75bd46d15c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091022135407.GO23287@jg>

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 04:39:13PM +0300, Daniel Bainton wrote:
>>> And doesn't even work in Firefox without javascript on. Just shows all
>>> the text without any formatting, making it look like a spam site or
>>> something. Would drive a lot of potential users away surely.
>>
>> Works for me without javascript. Are you sure you don't mean with NoScript
>> enabled? It blocks XSLT for some unimaginable reason. At any rate, it's
>> clearly not meant to be permanent.
>
>
>Ah right, it's NoScript.
>
>Anyway, I bet lots of potential Vimperator users do use NoScript, it's
>the second best Firefox extension out there.

Unfortunately, it's also a massive heap of incomprehensible, 
slow, spaghetti code rubbish with bad defaults and aweful 
misfeatures. Not that that stops me from using it, it just stops 
me from making enough sense out of to even write a Vimperator 
plugin for it.

-- 
Kris Maglione

A program that produces incorrect results twice as fast is infinitely
slower.
	--John Osterhout


From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Thu Oct 22 07:56:57 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:56:57 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <20091022111932.GK23287@jg>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
	<644fc65e0910220258i52703ed3g9483771231498f21@mail.gmail.com>
	<dbfc82860910220307l6b9321f3j870f641b4d10a6b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0910220328k71f5fa18u822d0a1c53fee218@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaae92100910220402m13e0c9b2ybb124a2af078d19f@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091022111932.GK23287@jg>
Message-ID: <aaae92100910220756ke1b8689g49eeeebcdce8457a@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 1:19 PM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 01:02:00PM +0200, Stubenschrott, Martin wrote:
>>
>> 1.) I think that the Copyright looks really bad down there, I would
>> move it back where the GC one is, or we could also just move it below
>> the content box.
>> Even if we do not move to sourceforge, I'll add your 2 names and the
>> CC logo to the google sites homepage.
>
> I rather prefer it there, though the nav menu needs something else in its
> place. It could just as easily go under the content, though.

Looks much better under the content IMHO. The sourceforge logo to the left
still looks weird, but I think we should extend the menu box height to cover
the full height and just place the logo in there without an additional frame.

Anyway, I can play with all these small design issues myself as well. I just
won't be at home from tomorrow afternoon until next wednesday.

>> 3.) The blog entry functionality would be gone. Not that we will use
>> that so often, and I guess manually adding a new news entry one the
>> first page is not that hard anyway ;)
>
> Nope, it's just a gadget. Gadgets work anywhere.

Right, but since i don't like iframes, i'll just add news entries manually.

>> 5.) We should decide on a template system to create those pages
>
> It already has a template system. I tend to use django, though.

Is their template system server side? That would be easier than manually
processing the pages locally.

> It's confirmed, and setup. Point a vimperator.org or www.vimperator.org
> CNAME at vimperator.sourceforge.net and everything is set (they say
> vimperator.org should be IN A 216.34.181.97, but I don't believe them).

http://sf.vimperator.org/ - but it seems it does need the A record, or maybe
something else, at least i do get a 404 from sourceforge.

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Thu Oct 22 08:10:44 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 11:10:44 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <aaae92100910220756ke1b8689g49eeeebcdce8457a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
	<644fc65e0910220258i52703ed3g9483771231498f21@mail.gmail.com>
	<dbfc82860910220307l6b9321f3j870f641b4d10a6b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0910220328k71f5fa18u822d0a1c53fee218@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaae92100910220402m13e0c9b2ybb124a2af078d19f@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091022111932.GK23287@jg>
	<aaae92100910220756ke1b8689g49eeeebcdce8457a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091022151044.GP23287@jg>

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 04:56:57PM +0200, Stubenschrott, Martin wrote:
>> It already has a template system. I tend to use django, though.
>
>Is their template system server side? That would be easier than manually
>processing the pages locally.

It's not their templating system, it's XSLT. But I have a commit 
hook to generate the xhtml installed now.

>> It's confirmed, and setup. Point a vimperator.org or www.vimperator.org
>> CNAME at vimperator.sourceforge.net and everything is set (they say
>> vimperator.org should be IN A 216.34.181.97, but I don't believe them).
>
>http://sf.vimperator.org/ - but it seems it does need the A record, or maybe
>something else, at least i do get a 404 from sourceforge.

You need to add sf.vimperator.org as a VHOST if you want it to 
work. Admin -> Features -> VHOST + Manage. Anyway, it's done.

-- 
Kris Maglione

A plumber has around eight years training in the US. That's to fix my
goddamn toilet.  Yet, how much training do you have to do to be
allowed to build software for a plane carrying hundreds of people?
	--James Coplien


From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Thu Oct 22 08:58:46 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 17:58:46 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH 0 of 1] Towards replacing asciidoc.
In-Reply-To: <644fc65e0910220236h1e80945ct11b7b0cd0be11b78@mail.gmail.com>
References: <patchbomb.1256174233@localhost.localdomain>
	<644fc65e0910220236h1e80945ct11b7b0cd0be11b78@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aaae92100910220858t704255cbled504ff4fdbb50fb@mail.gmail.com>

I like it, although I haven't yet tested how the generated pages look
like. If we are at it, it would totally ok for me to make them look
differently but Doug probably likes the "quite-vim-compatible-looks".
On the other hand, the current design isn't that bad either.

As I already said to Doug in a private mail, it would also be ok for
me to strip the donation buttons from every help page but the intro
page.

Anyways, Doug is certainly the guy who does most help text editing, so
I think you two should decide yourselves which route to go.

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Thu Oct 22 09:14:42 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 12:14:42 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH 0 of 1] Towards replacing asciidoc.
In-Reply-To: <aaae92100910220858t704255cbled504ff4fdbb50fb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <patchbomb.1256174233@localhost.localdomain>
	<644fc65e0910220236h1e80945ct11b7b0cd0be11b78@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaae92100910220858t704255cbled504ff4fdbb50fb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091022161442.GQ23287@jg>

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 05:58:46PM +0200, Stubenschrott, Martin wrote:
>I like it, although I haven't yet tested how the generated pages look
>like. If we are at it, it would totally ok for me to make them look
>differently but Doug probably likes the "quite-vim-compatible-looks".
>On the other hand, the current design isn't that bad either.

The result is all but identical to the current styling, with 
a few fixes to old layout bugs, and a few new layout bugs.

-- 
Kris Maglione

Correctness is clearly the prime quality.  If a system does not do
what it is supposed to do, then everything else about it matters
little.
	--Bertrand Meyer


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Thu Oct 22 17:03:08 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 20:03:08 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <aaae92100910220756ke1b8689g49eeeebcdce8457a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
	<644fc65e0910220258i52703ed3g9483771231498f21@mail.gmail.com>
	<dbfc82860910220307l6b9321f3j870f641b4d10a6b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0910220328k71f5fa18u822d0a1c53fee218@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaae92100910220402m13e0c9b2ybb124a2af078d19f@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091022111932.GK23287@jg>
	<aaae92100910220756ke1b8689g49eeeebcdce8457a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091023000308.GV23287@jg>

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 04:56:57PM +0200, Stubenschrott, Martin wrote:
>> It's confirmed, and setup. Point a vimperator.org or www.vimperator.org
>> CNAME at vimperator.sourceforge.net and everything is set (they say
>> vimperator.org should be IN A 216.34.181.97, but I don't believe them).
>
>http://sf.vimperator.org/ - but it seems it does need the A record, or maybe
>something else, at least i do get a 404 from sourceforge.

Well, it seems to be taking a rather long time to add 
sf.vimperator.org to the VHOST list, but vimperator.org and 
www.vimperator.org (both of which I added yesterday) work fine. 
To prove it, you can add them to /etc/hosts or:

telnet vimperator.sf.net 80
GET /vimperator.xhtml HTTP/1.0
Host: vimperator.org
User-Agent: Telnet
Accept: */*


(the blank line after Accept is important)

-- 
Kris Maglione

Please don't fall into the trap of believing that I am terribly
dogmatical about [the goto statement].  I have the uncomfortable
feeling that others are making a religion out of it, as if the
conceptual problems of programming could be solved by a single trick,
by a simple form of coding discipline!
	--Edsger W. Dijkstra


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Thu Oct 22 17:45:15 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 20:45:15 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <aaae92100910220756ke1b8689g49eeeebcdce8457a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
	<644fc65e0910220258i52703ed3g9483771231498f21@mail.gmail.com>
	<dbfc82860910220307l6b9321f3j870f641b4d10a6b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0910220328k71f5fa18u822d0a1c53fee218@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaae92100910220402m13e0c9b2ybb124a2af078d19f@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091022111932.GK23287@jg>
	<aaae92100910220756ke1b8689g49eeeebcdce8457a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091023004515.GW23287@jg>

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 04:56:57PM +0200, Stubenschrott, Martin wrote:
>> It's confirmed, and setup. Point a vimperator.org or www.vimperator.org
>> CNAME at vimperator.sourceforge.net and everything is set (they say
>> vimperator.org should be IN A 216.34.181.97, but I don't believe them).
>
>http://sf.vimperator.org/ - but it seems it does need the A record, or maybe
>something else, at least i do get a 404 from sourceforge.

Sorry, this is getting noisy. The CNAME should be for to 
vhost.sourceforge.net, not to vimperator.sourceforge.net.

-- 
Kris Maglione

I just hate to be pushed around by some fucking machine.
	--Ken Thompson


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Thu Oct 22 20:02:46 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 23:02:46 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Updating vimperator.sf.net (was: Moving from Google
 Sites to Sourceforge)
In-Reply-To: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
Message-ID: <20091023030246.GZ23287@jg>

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 01:01:59AM -0400, Kris Maglione wrote:
>I've created a project, and dumped a proof-of-concept site, 
>desparately in need of polish:
>
>    http://vimperator.sourceforge.net/vimperator.xml
>

Since it's not the most intuitive setup, I think I should 
explain what you need to do to edit the site as it's setup now. 
I've put the entire site under hg version control, so you need a 
shell account to push your changes. You're going to want to 
upload a public key if you haven't already done so. You can't 
just scp it to ~/.ssh.

     https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/sourceforge/wiki/SSH%20keys

Their SSH setup is a bit strange. Your shell lives in a chroot, 
and the chroot only lasts 4 hours every time it's created, so 
you'll probably have to ssh in before you push or pull 
changesets:

     ssh -t USER,vimperator at shell.sf.net create

(substituting USER) as appropriate. The first time you ssh in, 
you'll want to:

     ln -s /home/groups/v/vi/vimperator vimperator

Then, you can just clone the whole thing:

     hg clone ssh://USER at shell.sf.net/vimperator vimperator.org

The htdocs folder is the web root. The templating system is 
currently XSLT, which is evil, but was convenient after I'd just 
finished working on the help files. It does have the advantage 
of actually understanding the XHTML, which it uses to generate 
the menus.

To change the actual pages, edit the <content/> section of the 
*.xml files. style.xsl and style.xml are the stylesheet and 
template. You shouldn't have to touch the former much. You can 
view the *.xml files directly in Firefox, since it understands 
XSLT natively. When you push, they'll be mangled into the 
*.xhtml files. The Makefiles provided will do the mangling 
locally if you have Xalan installed and set the XALAN variable, 
but you shouldn't need to.

-- 
Kris Maglione

A program is portable to the extent that it can be easily moved to a
new computing environment with much less effort than would be required
to write it afresh.
	--W. Stan Brown


From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Fri Oct 23 03:07:24 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 12:07:24 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <20091023004515.GW23287@jg>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
	<644fc65e0910220258i52703ed3g9483771231498f21@mail.gmail.com>
	<dbfc82860910220307l6b9321f3j870f641b4d10a6b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0910220328k71f5fa18u822d0a1c53fee218@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaae92100910220402m13e0c9b2ybb124a2af078d19f@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091022111932.GK23287@jg>
	<aaae92100910220756ke1b8689g49eeeebcdce8457a@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091023004515.GW23287@jg>
Message-ID: <aaae92100910230307m73060072ud7b36420ba88ec34@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 2:45 AM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry, this is getting noisy. The CNAME should be for to
> vhost.sourceforge.net, not to vimperator.sourceforge.net.

Thanks, works now. And I think you are right, the page seems to be working well.

I only think we really don't need a "Projects" submenu, but should put
vimperator/etc.
in the top menu. Maybe we should also add the 16px icons of the
projects left to the
projects. But anyway, this can all be tested out.

When I come back next week from my short holiday, I'll add google ads,
make a few
small design updates, and move sf.vimp.org to www.vimp.org. Maybe it's
also possible
to make vimperator.org work directly now in sourceforge without it
redirecting to
www.vimperator.org.

Ah, but you should share your commit hook with us, so we can also just commit
changes to the XML and have the xhtml autogenerated.

And I am pleasantly surprised that the hosting is really fast, that
was also a concern
for me, since sourceforge pages seemed to be quite slow, but maybe that's their
own pages, but not for static pages.

Thanks,

Martin

BTW: Nice work at the menu, auto-expanding the current project is
exactly what I wanted but was not doable with google sites.

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Fri Oct 23 03:17:57 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 06:17:57 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <aaae92100910230307m73060072ud7b36420ba88ec34@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
	<644fc65e0910220258i52703ed3g9483771231498f21@mail.gmail.com>
	<dbfc82860910220307l6b9321f3j870f641b4d10a6b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0910220328k71f5fa18u822d0a1c53fee218@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaae92100910220402m13e0c9b2ybb124a2af078d19f@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091022111932.GK23287@jg>
	<aaae92100910220756ke1b8689g49eeeebcdce8457a@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091023004515.GW23287@jg>
	<aaae92100910230307m73060072ud7b36420ba88ec34@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091023101757.GA23287@jg>

On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 12:07:24PM +0200, Stubenschrott, Martin wrote:
>Maybe it's also possible to make vimperator.org work directly
>now in sourceforge without it redirecting to
>www.vimperator.org.

Of course it is.

>Ah, but you should share your commit hook with us, so we can 
>also just commit changes to the XML and have the xhtml 
>autogenerated.

There's nothing to share. It happens on the server. And all it 
does is run make from the toplevel of the repo.

>And I am pleasantly surprised that the hosting is really fast, 
>that was also a concern for me, since sourceforge pages seemed 
>to be quite slow, but maybe that's their own pages, but not for 
>static pages.

SourceForge hosting has always been fast. It's the project 
management crap that's slow. It's probably written in 15 year 
old, crusty PHP, with an impossible interface to boot.

-- 
Kris Maglione

Sufficiently advanced political correctness is indistinguishable from
sarcasm.
	--Eric Naggum


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Fri Oct 23 03:36:03 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 06:36:03 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <aaae92100910230307m73060072ud7b36420ba88ec34@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
	<644fc65e0910220258i52703ed3g9483771231498f21@mail.gmail.com>
	<dbfc82860910220307l6b9321f3j870f641b4d10a6b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0910220328k71f5fa18u822d0a1c53fee218@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaae92100910220402m13e0c9b2ybb124a2af078d19f@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091022111932.GK23287@jg>
	<aaae92100910220756ke1b8689g49eeeebcdce8457a@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091023004515.GW23287@jg>
	<aaae92100910230307m73060072ud7b36420ba88ec34@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091023103603.GB23287@jg>

On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 12:07:24PM +0200, Stubenschrott, Martin wrote:
>I only think we really don't need a "Projects" submenu, but 
>should put vimperator/etc.  in the top menu. Maybe we should 
>also add the 16px icons of the projects left to the projects. 
>But anyway, this can all be tested out.

I rather prefer the projects menu. I had them initially under 
the top menu, but this way they're clearly separated from the 
rest of the pages, which makes sense, as they're their own class 
of pages. Plus, it makes it clear that the other items on the 
menu apply to all of the projects.

I don't think that the icons will work well on the menu, but 
they would be good for the XPInstall (the <download/> elements 
just need icon= attributes) at the least.

-- 
Kris Maglione

The string is a stark data structure and everywhere it is passed there
is duplication.  It is a perfect vehicle for hiding information.
	--Alan J. Perlis


From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Fri Oct 23 03:45:23 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 12:45:23 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <20091023103603.GB23287@jg>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
	<644fc65e0910220258i52703ed3g9483771231498f21@mail.gmail.com>
	<dbfc82860910220307l6b9321f3j870f641b4d10a6b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0910220328k71f5fa18u822d0a1c53fee218@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaae92100910220402m13e0c9b2ybb124a2af078d19f@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091022111932.GK23287@jg>
	<aaae92100910220756ke1b8689g49eeeebcdce8457a@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091023004515.GW23287@jg>
	<aaae92100910230307m73060072ud7b36420ba88ec34@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091023103603.GB23287@jg>
Message-ID: <aaae92100910230345i1b075enc33499c3aa1d4475@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 12:07:24PM +0200, Stubenschrott, Martin wrote:
>>
>> I only think we really don't need a "Projects" submenu, but should put
>> vimperator/etc. ?in the top menu. Maybe we should also add the 16px icons of
>> the projects left to the projects. But anyway, this can all be tested out.
>
> I rather prefer the projects menu. I had them initially under the top menu,
> but this way they're clearly separated from the rest of the pages, which
> makes sense, as they're their own class of pages. Plus, it makes it clear
> that the other items on the menu apply to all of the projects.

Maybe we could adjust the horizontal lines to group the projects? Like this:

------------------
| Home           |
------------------
| Vimperator     |
| Muttator       |
|   Download     |
|   Features     |
| Xulmus         |
------------------
| Developer Info |
------------------
| About          |
------------------

BTW: I think Developer Info reads better than your Developer info,
also most sites I know use this type of capitalization for the menu.
Furthermore we should turn off link-decoration for visited links in
the menu, but I can tinker with all this myself, just not now since I
am at work.

Maybe also black instead of blue would make a nice background for the
not used space, but maybe not. The good thing is, now we have much
more control about these things, and may even use a totally different
theme. With all your abstraction work of content and design that
should be easily possible.

Martin

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Fri Oct 23 04:14:40 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 07:14:40 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <aaae92100910230345i1b075enc33499c3aa1d4475@mail.gmail.com>
References: <644fc65e0910220258i52703ed3g9483771231498f21@mail.gmail.com>
	<dbfc82860910220307l6b9321f3j870f641b4d10a6b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0910220328k71f5fa18u822d0a1c53fee218@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaae92100910220402m13e0c9b2ybb124a2af078d19f@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091022111932.GK23287@jg>
	<aaae92100910220756ke1b8689g49eeeebcdce8457a@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091023004515.GW23287@jg>
	<aaae92100910230307m73060072ud7b36420ba88ec34@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091023103603.GB23287@jg>
	<aaae92100910230345i1b075enc33499c3aa1d4475@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091023111440.GC23287@jg>

On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 12:45:23PM +0200, Stubenschrott, Martin wrote:
>Maybe we could adjust the horizontal lines to group the projects? Like this:

Well, we wouldn't have to adjust anything; they're already 
grouped that way.

>BTW: I think Developer Info reads better than your Developer info,
>also most sites I know use this type of capitalization for the menu.

I suppose that's because most sites you know are from America. 
I've picked up a lot of British habits of authorship in recent 
years.

>Maybe also black instead of blue would make a nice background for the
>not used space, but maybe not.

The blue is god-aweful. I just copied it from the Google Site. 
It wasn't as bad there, when there was less of it, but it was 
still bad.

-- 
Kris Maglione

It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my
reasons for them.
	--Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Fri Oct 23 04:21:59 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 07:21:59 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <aaae92100910230345i1b075enc33499c3aa1d4475@mail.gmail.com>
References: <644fc65e0910220258i52703ed3g9483771231498f21@mail.gmail.com>
	<dbfc82860910220307l6b9321f3j870f641b4d10a6b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0910220328k71f5fa18u822d0a1c53fee218@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaae92100910220402m13e0c9b2ybb124a2af078d19f@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091022111932.GK23287@jg>
	<aaae92100910220756ke1b8689g49eeeebcdce8457a@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091023004515.GW23287@jg>
	<aaae92100910230307m73060072ud7b36420ba88ec34@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091023103603.GB23287@jg>
	<aaae92100910230345i1b075enc33499c3aa1d4475@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091023112159.GD23287@jg>

Can you please reset the Google Code www repo so I can push a 
clone of the website to it?

-- 
Kris Maglione

The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly
teaches me to suspect that my own is also.
	--Mark Twain


From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Fri Oct 23 04:34:08 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:34:08 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <20091023111440.GC23287@jg>
References: <644fc65e0910220258i52703ed3g9483771231498f21@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0910220328k71f5fa18u822d0a1c53fee218@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaae92100910220402m13e0c9b2ybb124a2af078d19f@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091022111932.GK23287@jg>
	<aaae92100910220756ke1b8689g49eeeebcdce8457a@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091023004515.GW23287@jg>
	<aaae92100910230307m73060072ud7b36420ba88ec34@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091023103603.GB23287@jg>
	<aaae92100910230345i1b075enc33499c3aa1d4475@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091023111440.GC23287@jg>
Message-ID: <aaae92100910230434k2130998je71f3753d9519715@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 1:14 PM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 12:45:23PM +0200, Stubenschrott, Martin wrote:
>>
>> Maybe we could adjust the horizontal lines to group the projects? Like
>> this:
>
> Well, we wouldn't have to adjust anything; they're already grouped that way.

Ok, as a user I just find too deep hierarchies really annoying, and
since we just
have 4 top menu entries anyway, going TOP->Projects->Vimperator->Screenshots
is not just unpractical, but also looks ugly in my opinion. Maybe we
find an even
better way for the navigation since we have all the freedom now to place it
where we think it makes sense.

> The blue is god-aweful. I just copied it from the Google Site. It wasn't as
> bad there, when there was less of it, but it was still bad.

Actually I think we should get rid off the 3 seperate boxes anyway,
and move the content (and menu) in one big box just like this:
http://www.stmartins.at/84.html (ignore the content, but I think you
get what I mean). All those horizontal and vertical lines make the
page really busy and not "clean". We could also drop the blue and move
back to more orange/black designs which

From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Fri Oct 23 04:38:14 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:38:14 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <20091023112159.GD23287@jg>
References: <644fc65e0910220258i52703ed3g9483771231498f21@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0910220328k71f5fa18u822d0a1c53fee218@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaae92100910220402m13e0c9b2ybb124a2af078d19f@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091022111932.GK23287@jg>
	<aaae92100910220756ke1b8689g49eeeebcdce8457a@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091023004515.GW23287@jg>
	<aaae92100910230307m73060072ud7b36420ba88ec34@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091023103603.GB23287@jg>
	<aaae92100910230345i1b075enc33499c3aa1d4475@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091023112159.GD23287@jg>
Message-ID: <aaae92100910230438x686d0be7w4aed1e38684cc6d3@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
> Can you please reset the Google Code www repo so I can push a clone of the
> website to it?

If you want, sure. But shouldn't we just commit the www stuff to
sourceforge only? Or where is the advantage of this clone? I rather
thought of disabling/deleting the www/ repo on GC.

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Fri Oct 23 04:50:05 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 07:50:05 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <aaae92100910230438x686d0be7w4aed1e38684cc6d3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <644fc65e0910220328k71f5fa18u822d0a1c53fee218@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaae92100910220402m13e0c9b2ybb124a2af078d19f@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091022111932.GK23287@jg>
	<aaae92100910220756ke1b8689g49eeeebcdce8457a@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091023004515.GW23287@jg>
	<aaae92100910230307m73060072ud7b36420ba88ec34@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091023103603.GB23287@jg>
	<aaae92100910230345i1b075enc33499c3aa1d4475@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091023112159.GD23287@jg>
	<aaae92100910230438x686d0be7w4aed1e38684cc6d3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091023115005.GE23287@jg>

On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 01:38:14PM +0200, Stubenschrott, Martin wrote:
>On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Can you please reset the Google Code www repo so I can push a clone of the
>> website to it?
>
>If you want, sure. But shouldn't we just commit the www stuff to
>sourceforge only? Or where is the advantage of this clone? I rather
>thought of disabling/deleting the www/ repo on GC.

It's publicly available and has a nice source tree and 
revision browser. Can't say the same for the one at SourceForge, 
which is hidden behind a secure shell. It'd be nice if we could 
do something to automatically keep them in sync, but we really 
can't.

-- 
Kris Maglione

Fast, fat computers breed slow, lazy programmers.
	--Robert Hummel


From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Fri Oct 23 05:15:19 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 14:15:19 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <20091023115005.GE23287@jg>
References: <644fc65e0910220328k71f5fa18u822d0a1c53fee218@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091022111932.GK23287@jg>
	<aaae92100910220756ke1b8689g49eeeebcdce8457a@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091023004515.GW23287@jg>
	<aaae92100910230307m73060072ud7b36420ba88ec34@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091023103603.GB23287@jg>
	<aaae92100910230345i1b075enc33499c3aa1d4475@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091023112159.GD23287@jg>
	<aaae92100910230438x686d0be7w4aed1e38684cc6d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091023115005.GE23287@jg>
Message-ID: <aaae92100910230515i707f8bfn487da1732cb4905b@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 1:50 PM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
> It's publicly available and has a nice source tree and revision browser.
> Can't say the same for the one at SourceForge, which is hidden behind a
> secure shell.

Who else but you, Doug and me (or "and I", what's the correct
English?) would need
to browse the website repo history? And the current source is open
anyway, just use :viewsource ;)

> It'd be nice if we could do something to automatically keep
> them in sync, but we really can't.

And yes, that's the main problem why I don't think pushing the website
to google code makes sense. Also I like the current distinction that
google code is really only needed for developing vimperator, and
sourceforge is only meant to host the website. I don't think mixing
the responsibilities is a good thing.

Think about it a day or so, if you then still think that the website
repo should live as a clone on google code, I will of course do it.
But I think we shall just name the commits properly, then a hg log
will show what's going on anyway and after we have the main contents,
I don't think there will be updates too often.

--
Martin

From ted at tedpavlic.com  Fri Oct 23 07:24:47 2009
From: ted at tedpavlic.com (Ted Pavlic)
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:24:47 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] titlestring funniness?
Message-ID: <4AE1BCAF.5090804@tedpavlic.com>

I have a feeling that this is a known issue, but I think I'm one of the 
few people who use Vimperator on non-Linux platforms, and so there's a 
chance that others haven't noticed because of how Linux renders its windows.

* When I start Vimperator and it opens to 'about:blank', the title 
string reads "Mozilla FirefoxVimperator" (with no space between the 
two). This seems to be deliberate (see line 233 of liberator.js).

* When I open a new page in Vimperator, the title string is replaced 
with its title.

* When I delete the tab so I'm returned to 'about:blank', the title 
string returns to "Mozilla Firefox" with no "Vimperator".

It looks like the title string only gets set when "titlestring" is 
changed via ":set titlestring". Is there any way to make the title 
string persistent? And should there be a space between "Firefox" and 
"Vimperator"?

--Ted

-- 
Ted Pavlic <ted at tedpavlic.com>

   Please visit my 2009 d'Feet ALS walk page:
         http://web.alsa.org/goto/tedp
   My family appreciates your support in the fight to defeat ALS.

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Fri Oct 23 22:10:41 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 01:10:41 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH 0 of 1] Towards replacing asciidoc.
In-Reply-To: <patchbomb.1256174233@localhost.localdomain>
References: <patchbomb.1256174233@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20091024051041.GF23287@jg>

New patch attached. Differences:

  * Proper linkification of references.
  * XSL cleanup.
  * Add liberator://help/page
  * Add liberator://help-tag/tag
  * Moved */components/ to common/, with symlinks in application 
    directories.

Can we please decide on this soon so I know whether to keep 
working on it?

-- 
Kris Maglione

A program that produces incorrect results twice as fast is infinitely
slower.
	--John Osterhout

-------------- next part --------------
# HG changeset patch
# User Kris Maglione <jg at suckless.org>
# Date 1256360826 14400
# Node ID 799b22dd59ef776c519337e1878fc87a250c83f4
# Parent  4e4da714d3e3318e0e96566e05f514078c49feca
Replace asciidoc.

diff --git a/vimperator/components/about-handler.js b/common/components/about-handler.js
rename from vimperator/components/about-handler.js
rename to common/components/about-handler.js
diff --git a/vimperator/components/chrome-data.js b/common/components/chrome-data.js
rename from vimperator/components/chrome-data.js
rename to common/components/chrome-data.js
--- a/vimperator/components/chrome-data.js
+++ b/common/components/chrome-data.js
@@ -10,44 +10,41 @@
  * "chrome-data:" <content-type> [; <flag>]* "," [<data>]
  *
  * By Kris Maglione, ideas from Ed Anuff's nsChromeExtensionHandler.
- *
- *
- * Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a
- * copy of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"),
- * to deal in the Software without restriction, including without limitation
- * the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense,
- * and/or sell copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the
- * Software is furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions:
- *
- * The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in
- * all copies or substantial portions of the Software.
- *
- * THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR
- * IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY,
- * FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT.  IN NO EVENT SHALL
- * THE AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER
- * LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING
- * FROM, OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER
- * DEALINGS IN THE SOFTWARE.
  */
 
+const Ci = Components.interfaces, Cc = Components.classes;
+
 Components.utils.import("resource://gre/modules/XPCOMUtils.jsm");
 
 const NS_BINDING_ABORTED = 0x804b0002;
 const nsIProtocolHandler = Components.interfaces.nsIProtocolHandler;
 
-const ioService = Components.classes["@mozilla.org/network/io-service;1"]
-                            .getService(Components.interfaces.nsIIOService);
+const ioService = Cc["@mozilla.org/network/io-service;1"].getService(Ci.nsIIOService);
 
 let channel = Components.classesByID["{61ba33c0-3031-11d3-8cd0-0060b0fc14a3}"]
-                        .getService(Components.interfaces.nsIProtocolHandler)
+                        .getService(Ci.nsIProtocolHandler)
                         .newChannel(ioService.newURI("chrome://liberator/content/data", null, null))
-                        .QueryInterface(Components.interfaces.nsIRequest);
+                        .QueryInterface(Ci.nsIRequest);
 const systemPrincipal = channel.owner;
 channel.cancel(NS_BINDING_ABORTED);
 delete channel;
 
-var instance;
+function makeChannel(url, orig)
+{
+    let uri = ioService.newURI(url, null, null);
+    let channel = ioService.newChannelFromURI(uri);
+    channel.owner = systemPrincipal;
+    channel.originalURI = orig;
+    return channel;
+}
+function fakeChannel(orig)
+    makeChannel("chrome://does/not/exist/in/any/reasonable/configuration", orig);
+function redirect(to, orig)
+{
+    let html = <html><head><meta http-equiv="Refresh" content={"0;" + to}/></head></html>.toXMLString();
+    return makeChannel('data:text/html,' + escape(html), orig);
+}
+
 function ChromeData() {}
 ChromeData.prototype = {
     contractID:       "@mozilla.org/network/protocol;1?name=chrome-data",
@@ -57,11 +54,11 @@ ChromeData.prototype = {
     _xpcom_factory: {
         createInstance: function (outer, iid)
         {
-            if (!instance)
-            instance = new ChromeData();
+            if (!ChromeData.instance)
+                ChromeData.instance = new ChromeData();
             if (outer != null)
-            throw Components.results.NS_ERROR_NO_AGGREGATION;
-            return instance.QueryInterface(iid);
+                throw Components.results.NS_ERROR_NO_AGGREGATION;
+            return ChromeData.instance.QueryInterface(iid);
         }
     },
 
@@ -77,7 +74,7 @@ ChromeData.prototype = {
         var uri = Components.classes["@mozilla.org/network/standard-url;1"]
                             .createInstance(Components.interfaces.nsIStandardURL)
                             .QueryInterface(Components.interfaces.nsIURI);
-        uri.init(1, -1, spec, charset, null);
+        uri.init(uri.URLTYPE_STANDARD, this.defaultPort, spec, charset, null);
         return uri;
     },
 
@@ -86,20 +83,120 @@ ChromeData.prototype = {
         try
         {
             if (uri.scheme == this.scheme)
-            {
-                let newURI = ioService.newURI(uri.spec.replace(/^.*?:\/*(.*)(?:#.*)?/, "data:$1"), null, null);
-                let channel = ioService.newChannelFromURI(newURI);
-                channel.owner = systemPrincipal;
-                channel.originalURI = uri;
-                return channel;
-            }
+                return makeChannel(uri.spec.replace(/^.*?:\/*(.*)(?:#.*)?/, "data:$1"), uri);
         }
         catch (e) {}
-        throw Components.results.NS_ERROR_FAILURE;
+        return fakeChannel();
     }
 };
 
-var components = [ChromeData];
+function Liberator()
+{
+    this.wrappedJSObject = this;
+
+    this.__defineGetter__("helpFiles", function () HELP_FILES ? HELP_FILES.slice() : null);
+    this.__defineSetter__("helpFiles", function (files) {
+        if (!HELP_FILES)
+            parseHelpTags(files);
+    });
+
+    function xpath(doc, expression)
+    {
+        let result = doc.evaluate(expression, doc,
+            function lookupNamespaceURI(prefix) ({
+                    xhtml: "http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml",
+                    liberator: "http://vimperator.org/namespaces/liberator",
+                }[prefix] || null),
+            5, null);
+        result.__iterator__ = function () { let elem; while ((elem = this.iterateNext())) yield elem; };
+        return result;
+    }
+
+    function httpGet(url)
+    {
+        try
+        {
+            let xmlhttp = Cc["@mozilla.org/xmlextras/xmlhttprequest;1"].createInstance(Ci.nsIXMLHttpRequest);
+            xmlhttp.open("GET", url, false);
+            xmlhttp.send(null);
+            return xmlhttp;
+        }
+        catch (e) {}
+    }
+
+    const HELP_TAGS = {};
+    this.HELP_TAGS = HELP_TAGS;
+    var HELP_FILES = null;
+
+    function parseHelpTags(files)
+    {
+        const XSLT = Cc["@mozilla.org/document-transformer;1?type=xslt"].createInstance(Ci.nsIXSLTProcessor);
+        XSLT.importStylesheet(httpGet("chrome://liberator/content/help.xsl").responseXML);
+        for each (let file in files)
+        {
+            let res = httpGet("liberator://help/" + file);
+            if (res)
+            {
+                let doc = XSLT.transformToDocument(res.responseXML);
+                for (let elem in xpath(doc, "//liberator:tag/text()"))
+                    HELP_TAGS[elem.textContent] = file;
+            }
+        }
+        HELP_FILES = Array.slice(files);
+    }
+}
+Liberator.prototype = {
+    contractID:       "@mozilla.org/network/protocol;1?name=liberator",
+    classID:          Components.ID("{9c8f2530-51c8-4d41-b356-319e0b155c44}"),
+    classDescription: "Liberator utility protocol",
+    QueryInterface:   XPCOMUtils.generateQI([Components.interfaces.nsIProtocolHandler]),
+    _xpcom_factory: {
+        createInstance: function (outer, iid)
+        {
+            if (!Liberator.instance)
+                Liberator.instance = new Liberator();
+            if (outer != null)
+                throw Components.results.NS_ERROR_NO_AGGREGATION;
+            return Liberator.instance.QueryInterface(iid);
+        }
+    },
+
+    scheme: "liberator",
+    defaultPort: -1,
+    allowPort: function (port, scheme) false,
+    protocolFlags: 0
+         | nsIProtocolHandler.URI_IS_UI_RESOURCE
+         | nsIProtocolHandler.URI_IS_LOCAL_RESOURCE,
+
+    newURI: function (spec, charset, baseURI)
+    {
+        var uri = Components.classes["@mozilla.org/network/standard-url;1"]
+                            .createInstance(Components.interfaces.nsIStandardURL)
+                            .QueryInterface(Components.interfaces.nsIURI);
+        uri.init(uri.URLTYPE_STANDARD, this.defaultPort, spec, charset, baseURI);
+        return uri;
+    },
+
+    newChannel: function (uri)
+    {
+        try
+        {
+            switch(uri.host)
+            {
+                case "help":
+                    return makeChannel("chrome://liberator/locale" + uri.path.replace(/#.*/, "") + ".xml", uri);
+                case "help-tag":
+                    let tag = uri.path.substr(1);
+                    if (tag in this.HELP_TAGS)
+                        return redirect("liberator://help/" + this.HELP_TAGS[tag] + "#" + tag, uri);
+            }
+        }
+        catch (e) { dump(e + "\n"); dump(e.stack); }
+        return fakeChannel(uri);
+    }
+};
+
+var components = [ChromeData, Liberator];
 
 function NSGetModule(compMgr, fileSpec)
 {
diff --git a/vimperator/components/commandline-handler.js b/common/components/commandline-handler.js
rename from vimperator/components/commandline-handler.js
rename to common/components/commandline-handler.js
diff --git a/common/content/completion.js b/common/content/completion.js
--- a/common/content/completion.js
+++ b/common/content/completion.js
@@ -233,7 +233,10 @@ CompletionContext.prototype = {
                 if (!context.hasItems)
                     return [];
                 let prefix = self.value.substring(minStart, context.offset);
-                return context.items.map(function makeItem(item) ({ text: prefix + item.text, item: item.item }));
+                return context.items.map(function (item) {
+                    item.text = prefix + item.text;
+                    return item;
+                });
             });
             return { start: minStart, items: util.Array.flatten(items), longestSubstring: this.longestAllSubstring };
         }
diff --git a/common/content/help.js b/common/content/help.js
--- a/common/content/help.js
+++ b/common/content/help.js
@@ -1,17 +1,21 @@
-// Copyright (c) 2009 by Kris Maglione <maglione.k at Gmail>
+// Copyright (c) 2009 by Kris Maglione <kris at vimperator.org>
 //
 // This work is licensed for reuse under an MIT license. Details are
 // given in the LICENSE.txt file included with this file.
 
 
-const win = Components.classes["@mozilla.org/embedcomp/window-watcher;1"]
-                      .getService(Ci.nsIWindowWatcher)
-                      .activeWindow;
-const liberator = win.liberator;
+function checkFragment()
+{
+    var frag = document.location.hash.substr(1);
+    var elem = document.getElementById(frag);
+    if (elem)
+        window.content.scrollTo(0, window.content.scrollY + elem.getBoundingClientRect().top - 10); // 10px context
+}
 
-let page = liberator.findHelp(decodeURIComponent(document.location.search.substr(1)));
-let url = page ? "chrome://liberator/locale/" + page : content.history.previous;
-
-win.getBrowser().loadURIWithFlags(url, Components.interfaces.nsIWebNavigation.LOAD_FLAGS_REPLACE_HISTORY, null, null, null);
+document.addEventListener("load", checkFragment, true);
+window.addEventListener("message", function (event) {
+    if (event.data == "fragmentChange")
+        checkFragment();
+}, true);
 
 // vim: set fdm=marker sw=4 ts=4 et:
diff --git a/common/content/help.xul b/common/content/help.xul
deleted file mode 100644
--- a/common/content/help.xul
+++ /dev/null
@@ -1,7 +0,0 @@
-<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
-
-<window xmlns="http://www.mozilla.org/keymaster/gatekeeper/there.is.only.xul">
-    <script type="application/x-javascript;version=1.8"
-	src="chrome://liberator/content/help.js"/>
-</window>
-
diff --git a/common/content/liberator.js b/common/content/liberator.js
--- a/common/content/liberator.js
+++ b/common/content/liberator.js
@@ -310,8 +310,7 @@ const liberator = (function () //{{{
             function ()
             {
                 liberator.open("chrome://mozapps/content/extensions/extensions.xul",
-                    (options["newtab"] && options.get("newtab").has("all", "addons"))
-                        ? liberator.NEW_TAB: liberator.CURRENT_TAB);
+                    { from: "addons" });
             },
             { argCount: "0" });
 
@@ -487,9 +486,7 @@ const liberator = (function () //{{{
                 if (args.bang)
                     window.openDialog(extension.options, "_blank", "chrome");
                 else
-                    liberator.open(extension.options,
-                        options.get("newtab").has("all", "extoptions")
-                            ? liberator.NEW_TAB : liberator.CURRENT_TAB);
+                    liberator.open(extension.options, { from: "extoptions" });
             },
             {
                 argCount: "1",
@@ -577,8 +574,7 @@ const liberator = (function () //{{{
                 if (args.bang) // open JavaScript console
                 {
                     liberator.open("chrome://global/content/console.xul",
-                        (options["newtab"] && options.get("newtab").has("all", "javascript"))
-                            ? liberator.NEW_TAB : liberator.CURRENT_TAB);
+                        { from: "javascript" });
                 }
                 else
                 {
@@ -848,19 +844,9 @@ const liberator = (function () //{{{
             context.title = ["Help"];
             context.anchored = false;
             context.key = unchunked;
-            context.generate = function ()
-            {
-                let files = unchunked ? ["all.html"] : config.helpFiles;
-                let res = files.map(function (file) {
-                    let resp = util.httpGet("chrome://liberator/locale/" + file);
-                    if (!resp)
-                        return [];
-                    let doc = resp.responseXML;
-                    return Array.map(doc.getElementsByClassName("tag"),
-                            function (elem) [elem.textContent, file]);
-                });
-                return util.Array.flatten(res);
-            };
+            context.completions = services.get("liberator:").HELP_TAGS;
+            if (unchunked)
+                context.keys = { text: "text", description: function () "all" };
         };
 
         completion.menuItem = function menuItem(context) {
@@ -941,10 +927,10 @@ const liberator = (function () //{{{
         getExtension: function (name) this.extensions.filter(function (e) e.name == name)[0],
 
         // Global constants
-        CURRENT_TAB: 1,
-        NEW_TAB: 2,
-        NEW_BACKGROUND_TAB: 3,
-        NEW_WINDOW: 4,
+        CURRENT_TAB: [],
+        NEW_TAB: [],
+        NEW_BACKGROUND_TAB: [],
+        NEW_WINDOW: [],
 
         forceNewTab: false,
         forceNewWindow: false,
@@ -1373,23 +1359,22 @@ const liberator = (function () //{{{
         findHelp: function (topic, unchunked)
         {
             unchunked = !!unchunked;
-            let items = completion.runCompleter("help", topic, null, unchunked);
+            let items = completion._runCompleter("help", topic, null, unchunked).items;
             let partialMatch = null;
 
-            function format(item) item[1] + "#" + encodeURIComponent(item[0]);
+            function format(item) item.description + "#" + encodeURIComponent(item.text);
 
             for (let [i, item] in Iterator(items))
             {
-                if (item[0] == topic)
+                if (item.text == topic)
                     return format(item);
-                else if (!partialMatch && item[0].indexOf(topic) > -1)
+                else if (!partialMatch && topic)
                     partialMatch = item;
             }
 
             if (partialMatch)
                 return format(partialMatch);
-            else
-                return null;
+            return null;
         },
 
         /**
@@ -1402,15 +1387,11 @@ const liberator = (function () //{{{
          */
         help: function (topic, unchunked)
         {
-            let where = (options["newtab"] && options.get("newtab").has("all", "help"))
-                            ? liberator.NEW_TAB : liberator.CURRENT_TAB;
-
             if (!topic && !unchunked)
             {
                 let helpFile = options["helpfile"];
-
                 if (config.helpFiles.indexOf(helpFile) != -1)
-                    liberator.open("chrome://liberator/locale/" + helpFile, where);
+                    liberator.open("liberator://help/" + helpFile, { from: "help" });
                 else
                     liberator.echomsg("Sorry, help file " + helpFile.quote() + " not found");
                 return;
@@ -1420,8 +1401,8 @@ const liberator = (function () //{{{
             if (page == null)
                 return void liberator.echoerr("E149: Sorry, no help for " + topic);
 
-            liberator.open("chrome://liberator/locale/" + page, where);
-            if (where == this.CURRENT_TAB)
+            liberator.open("liberator://help/" + page, { from: "help" });
+            if (options.get("activate").has("all", "help"))
                 content.postMessage("fragmentChange", "*");
         },
 
@@ -1552,12 +1533,16 @@ const liberator = (function () //{{{
             }
 
             let flags = 0;
-            if (where instanceof Object)
+            if (!(where instanceof Array))
             {
                 for (let [opt, flag] in Iterator({ replace: "REPLACE_HISTORY", hide: "BYPASS_HISTORY" }))
                     if (where[opt])
                         flags |= Ci.nsIWebNavigation["LOAD_FLAGS_" + flag];
-                where = liberator.CURRENT_TAB;
+                if ("from" in where)
+                    where = (options["newtab"] && options.get("newtab").has("all", where.from))
+                            ? liberator.NEW_TAB : liberator.CURRENT_TAB;
+                else
+                    where = where.where || liberator.CURRENT_TAB;
             }
 
             if (urls.length == 0)
@@ -1733,6 +1718,8 @@ const liberator = (function () //{{{
             let start = Date.now();
             liberator.log("Initializing liberator object...", 0);
 
+            services.get("liberator:").helpFiles = config.helpFiles.map(function (f) f.replace(/\..*/, ""));
+
             config.features.push(getPlatformFeature());
 
             try
@@ -1959,29 +1946,6 @@ const liberator = (function () //{{{
 
 window.liberator = liberator;
 
-// FIXME: Ugly, etc.
-window.addEventListener("liberatorHelpLink", function (event) {
-        let elem = event.target;
-
-        if (/^(option|mapping|command|jump)$/.test(elem.className))
-            var tag = elem.textContent.replace(/\s.*/, "");
-        if (/^(mapping|command)$/.test(elem.className))
-            tag = tag.replace(/^\d+/, "");
-        if (elem.className == "command")
-            tag = tag.replace(/\[.*?\]/g, "").replace(/(\w+)!$/, "$1");
-
-        if (tag)
-        {
-            let page = liberator.findHelp(tag, /\/all.html($|#)/.test(elem.ownerDocument.location.href));
-            if (page)
-                elem.href = "chrome://liberator/locale/" + page;
-        }
-
-        // TODO: use HashChange event in Gecko 1.9.2
-        if (elem.href)
-            setTimeout(function () { content.postMessage("fragmentChange", "*"); }, 0);
-    }, true, true);
-
 // called when the chrome is fully loaded and before the main window is shown
 window.addEventListener("load",   liberator.startup,  false);
 window.addEventListener("unload", liberator.shutdown, false);
diff --git a/common/content/services.js b/common/content/services.js
--- a/common/content/services.js
+++ b/common/content/services.js
@@ -22,17 +22,19 @@ function Services()
 
     function create(classes, ifaces, meth)
     {
-        ifaces = Array.concat(ifaces);
         try
         {
-            let res = Cc[classes][meth || "getService"](ifaces.shift());
+            let res = Cc[classes][meth || "getService"]();
+            if (!ifaces)
+                return res.wrappedJSObject;
+            ifaces = Array.concat(ifaces);
             ifaces.forEach(function (iface) res.QueryInterface(iface));
             return res;
         }
         catch (e)
         {
             // liberator.log() is not defined at this time, so just dump any error
-            dump("Service creation failed for '" + classes + "': " + e);
+            dump("Service creation failed for '" + classes + "': " + e + "\n");
         }
     }
 
@@ -97,6 +99,7 @@ function Services()
     self.add("extensionManager",    "@mozilla.org/extensions/manager;1",                Ci.nsIExtensionManager);
     self.add("favicon",             "@mozilla.org/browser/favicon-service;1",           Ci.nsIFaviconService);
     self.add("json",                "@mozilla.org/dom/json;1",                          Ci.nsIJSON, "createInstance");
+    self.add("liberator:",          "@mozilla.org/network/protocol;1?name=liberator");
     self.add("livemark",            "@mozilla.org/browser/livemark-service;2",          Ci.nsILivemarkService);
     self.add("observer",            "@mozilla.org/observer-service;1",                  Ci.nsIObserverService);
     self.add("io",                  "@mozilla.org/network/io-service;1",                Ci.nsIIOService);
diff --git a/common/content/style.js b/common/content/style.js
--- a/common/content/style.js
+++ b/common/content/style.js
@@ -121,12 +121,73 @@ Highlights.prototype.CSS = <![CDATA[
     HintActive,,*   background-color: #88FF00; color: black;
     HintImage,,*    opacity: .5;
 
+    Help                                        font-size: 8pt; line-height: 1.4em; font-family: -moz-fixed;
+
+    HelpArg,liberator|a                         color: #6A97D4;
+    HelpArg::before                             content: "{";
+    HelpArg::after                              content: "}";
+
+    HelpBody                                    display: block; margin: 1em auto; max-width: 100ex;
+    HelpBorder,liberator|*                      border-color: silver; border-width: 0px; border-style: solid;
+    HelpCode,liberator|code                     display: block; white-space: pre; margin-left: 2em; font-family: courier, monospace;
+
+    HelpDefault,liberator|default               display: block; float: left; margin-right: 1ex; margin-bottom: 1em; white-space: pre;
+    HelpDefault::after                          content: ")"
+    HelpDefault::before                         content: "(default: ";
+
+    HelpDescription,liberator|description       display: block; clear: both;
+    HelpEm,liberator|em                         font-weight: bold;
+
+    HelpEx,liberator|ex                         display: inline-block; color: #527BBD; font-weight: bold;
+    HelpEx:hover                                text-decoration: underline; cursor: pointer;
+
+    HelpExample,liberator|example               display: block; margin: 1em 0;
+    HelpExample::before                         content: "Example: "; font-weight: bold;
+    HelpHead,liberator|h1                       display: block; margin: 1em 0; padding-bottom: .2ex; border-bottom-width: 1px; font-size: 2em; font-weight: bold; color: #527BBD; clear: both;
+    HelpItem,liberator|item                     display: block; margin: 1em 1em 1em 10em;
+
+    HelpKey,liberator|k                         color: #102663;
+
+    HelpLink,liberator|*>html|a                 text-decoration: none;
+    HelpLink:hover                              text-decoration: underline;
+
+    HelpList,liberator|ul                       display: block; list-style: inside disc;
+    HelpListItem,liberator|li                   display: list-item;
+
+    HelpNote,liberator|note                     display: block; margin: 1em 0em;
+    HelpNote::before                            content: "Note: "; color: red; font-weight: bold;
+
+    HelpOpt,liberator|o                         color: #106326;
+    HelpOpt:hover                               text-decoration: underline; cursor: pointer;
+
+    HelpParagraph,liberator|p                   display: block; margin: 1em 0em; clear: right;
+    HelpSpec,liberator|spec                     display: block; margin: 0 2em 0 -10em; float: left; clear: left; color: #527BBD;
+
+    HelpString,liberator|str                    display: inline-block; color: green; font-weight: normal;
+    HelpString::before                          content: '"';
+    HelpString::after                           content: '"';
+
+    HelpSubhead,liberator|h2                    display: block; margin: 1em 0; padding-bottom: .2ex; border-bottom-width: 1px; font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; color: #527BBD; clear: both;
+
+    HelpTab,liberator|dl                        display: table; width: 100%; margin: 1em 0; border-bottom-width: 1px; border-top-width: 1px; padding: 1ex 0; table-layout: fixed;
+    HelpTabCell,liberator|dl>*>*                display: table-cell; padding: .5ex 1ex;
+    HelpTabColumn,liberator|column              display: table-column;
+    HelpTabColumn1,liberator|column:nth-of-type(1) display: table-column; width: 25%; font-weight: bold;
+    HelpTabColumn2,liberator|column:nth-of-type(2) display: table-column; width: 75%;
+    HelpTabRow,liberator|dl>*                   display: table-row;
+
+    HelpTag,liberator|tag                       display: inline-block; color: #527BBD; margin-left: 1ex; font-size: 8pt; font-weight: bold;
+    HelpTags,liberator|tags                     display: block; float: right; clear: right;
+    HelpType,liberator|type                     display: block; float: left; margin-right: 1ex; margin-bottom: 1em;
+
+    HelpWarning,liberator|warning               display: block; margin: 1em 0em;
+    HelpWarning::before                         content: "Warning: "; color: red; font-weight: bold;
+
     Search,,* {
         font-size: inherit;
         padding: 0;
         color: black;
         background-color: yellow;
-        padding: 0;
     }
     ]]>.toString();
 
@@ -142,10 +203,18 @@ function Highlights(name, store)
     let highlight = {};
     let styles = storage.styles;
 
-    const Highlight = Struct("class", "selector", "filter", "default", "value");
-    Highlight.defaultValue("filter", function () ["chrome://liberator/content/buffer.xhtml"].concat(config.styleableChrome).join(","));
+    const Highlight = Struct("class", "selector", "filter", "default", "value", "base");
+    Highlight.defaultValue("filter", function () 
+        this.base ? this.base.filter :
+        ["chrome://liberator/*",
+         "liberator:*",
+         "file://*"].concat(config.styleableChrome).join(","));
     Highlight.defaultValue("selector", function () self.selector(this.class));
     Highlight.defaultValue("value", function () this.default);
+    Highlight.defaultValue("base", function () {
+        let base = this.class.match(/^(\w*)/)[0];
+        return base != this.class && base in highlight ? highlight[base] : null;
+    });
     Highlight.prototype.toString = function () "Highlight(" + this.class + ")\n\t" + [k + ": " + util.escapeString(v || "undefined") for ([k, v] in this)].join("\n\t");
 
     function keys() [k for ([k, v] in Iterator(highlight))].sort();
@@ -185,7 +254,7 @@ function Highlights(name, store)
         {
             css = style.selector + " { " + css + " }";
 
-            let error = styles.addSheet(true, style.selector, style.filter, css, true);
+            let error = styles.addSheet(true, "highlight:" + style.class, style.filter, css, true);
             if (error)
                 return error;
         }
@@ -201,7 +270,10 @@ function Highlights(name, store)
     this.selector = function (class)
     {
         let [, hl, rest] = class.match(/^(\w*)(.*)/);
-        return "[liberator|highlight~=" + hl + "]" + rest;
+        let class = "[liberator|highlight~=" + hl + "]"
+        if (highlight[hl] && highlight[hl].class != class)
+            class = highlight[hl].selector;
+        return class + rest;
     };
 
     /**
@@ -221,7 +293,7 @@ function Highlights(name, store)
      */
     this.loadCSS = function (css)
     {
-        css.replace(/\{((?:.|\n)*?)\}/g, function (_, _1) _1.replace(/\n\s*/g, " "))
+        css.replace(/^(\s*\S*\s+)\{((?:.|\n)*?)\}\s*$/gm, function (_, _1, _2) _1 + _2.replace(/\n\s*/g, " "))
            .split("\n").filter(function (s) /\S/.test(s))
            .forEach(function (style)
         {
diff --git a/muttator/components b/muttator/components
new file mode 120000
--- /dev/null
+++ b/muttator/components
@@ -0,0 +1,1 @@
+../common/components
\ No newline at end of file
diff --git a/muttator/components/chrome-data.js b/muttator/components/chrome-data.js
deleted file mode 100644
--- a/muttator/components/chrome-data.js
+++ /dev/null
@@ -1,89 +0,0 @@
-// Copyright (c) 2008-2009 Kris Maglione <maglione.k at Gmail>
-//
-// This work is licensed for reuse under an MIT license. Details are
-// given in the LICENSE.txt file included with this file.
-
-/* Adds support for data: URIs with chrome privileges
- * and fragment identifiers.
- *
- * "chrome-data:" <content-type> [; <flag>]* "," [<data>]
- *
- * By Kris Maglione, ideas from Ed Anuff's nsChromeExtensionHandler.
- */
-
-Components.utils.import("resource://gre/modules/XPCOMUtils.jsm");
-
-const NS_BINDING_ABORTED = 0x804b0002;
-const nsIProtocolHandler = Components.interfaces.nsIProtocolHandler;
-
-const ioService = Components.classes["@mozilla.org/network/io-service;1"]
-                            .getService(Components.interfaces.nsIIOService);
-
-let channel = Components.classesByID["{61ba33c0-3031-11d3-8cd0-0060b0fc14a3}"]
-                        .getService(Components.interfaces.nsIProtocolHandler)
-                        .newChannel(ioService.newURI("chrome://liberator/content/data", null, null))
-                        .QueryInterface(Components.interfaces.nsIRequest);
-const systemPrincipal = channel.owner;
-channel.cancel(NS_BINDING_ABORTED);
-delete channel;
-
-var instance;
-function ChromeData() {}
-ChromeData.prototype = {
-    contractID:       "@mozilla.org/network/protocol;1?name=chrome-data",
-    classID:          Components.ID("{c1b67a07-18f7-4e13-b361-2edcc35a5a0d}"),
-    classDescription: "Data URIs with chrome privileges",
-    QueryInterface:   XPCOMUtils.generateQI([Components.interfaces.nsIProtocolHandler]),
-    _xpcom_factory: {
-        createInstance: function (outer, iid)
-        {
-            if (!instance)
-            instance = new ChromeData();
-            if (outer != null)
-            throw Components.results.NS_ERROR_NO_AGGREGATION;
-            return instance.QueryInterface(iid);
-        }
-    },
-
-    scheme: "chrome-data",
-    defaultPort: -1,
-    allowPort: function (port, scheme) false,
-    protocolFlags: nsIProtocolHandler.URI_NORELATIVE
-         | nsIProtocolHandler.URI_NOAUTH
-         | nsIProtocolHandler.URI_IS_UI_RESOURCE,
-
-    newURI: function (spec, charset, baseURI)
-    {
-        var uri = Components.classes["@mozilla.org/network/standard-url;1"]
-                            .createInstance(Components.interfaces.nsIStandardURL)
-                            .QueryInterface(Components.interfaces.nsIURI);
-        uri.init(1, -1, spec, charset, null);
-        return uri;
-    },
-
-    newChannel: function (uri)
-    {
-        try
-        {
-            if (uri.scheme == this.scheme)
-            {
-                let newURI = ioService.newURI(uri.spec.replace(/^.*?:\/*(.*)(?:#.*)?/, "data:$1"), null, null);
-                let channel = ioService.newChannelFromURI(newURI);
-                channel.owner = systemPrincipal;
-                channel.originalURI = uri;
-                return channel;
-            }
-        }
-        catch (e) {}
-        throw Components.results.NS_ERROR_FAILURE;
-    }
-};
-
-var components = [ChromeData];
-
-function NSGetModule(compMgr, fileSpec)
-{
-    return XPCOMUtils.generateModule(components);
-}
-
-// vim: set fdm=marker sw=4 ts=4 et:
diff --git a/muttator/components/commandline-handler.js b/muttator/components/commandline-handler.js
deleted file mode 100644
--- a/muttator/components/commandline-handler.js
+++ /dev/null
@@ -1,45 +0,0 @@
-// Copyright (c) 2009 by Doug Kearns
-//
-// This work is licensed for reuse under an MIT license. Details are
-// given in the LICENSE.txt file included with this file.
-
-
-Components.utils.import("resource://gre/modules/XPCOMUtils.jsm");
-
-function CommandLineHandler()
-{
-    this.wrappedJSObject = this;
-}
-
-CommandLineHandler.prototype = {
-
-    classDescription: "Muttator Command-line Handler",
-
-    classID: Components.ID("{6e03e01a-3e2c-4a59-ac45-f1b4efb02ddb}"),
-
-    contractID: "@mozilla.org/commandlinehandler/general-startup;1?type=muttator",
-
-    _xpcom_categories: [{
-        category: "command-line-handler",
-        entry: "m-muttator"
-    }],
-
-    QueryInterface: XPCOMUtils.generateQI([Components.interfaces.nsICommandLineHandler]),
-
-    handle: function (commandLine)
-    {
-        // TODO: handle remote launches differently?
-        try
-        {
-            this.optionValue = commandLine.handleFlagWithParam("muttator", false);
-        }
-        catch (e)
-        {
-            //"muttator: option -muttator requires an argument"
-        }
-    }
-};
-
-function NSGetModule(compMgr, fileSpec) XPCOMUtils.generateModule([CommandLineHandler]);
-
-// vim: set fdm=marker sw=4 ts=4 et:
diff --git a/vimperator/components b/vimperator/components
new file mode 120000
--- /dev/null
+++ b/vimperator/components
@@ -0,0 +1,1 @@
+../common/components
\ No newline at end of file
diff --git a/vimperator/content/config.js b/vimperator/content/config.js
--- a/vimperator/content/config.js
+++ b/vimperator/content/config.js
@@ -169,7 +169,7 @@ const config = { //{{{
         img.src = "chrome://vimperator/content/logo.png";
         img.onload = function () {
             styles.addSheet(true, "logo", "chrome://liberator/locale/*",
-                ".vimperator-logo {" + <>
+                ".liberator-logo {" + <>
                      display:    inline-block;
                      background: url({img.src});
                      width:      {img.width}px;
diff --git a/vimperator/locale/en-US/help.js b/vimperator/locale/en-US/help.js
--- a/vimperator/locale/en-US/help.js
+++ b/vimperator/locale/en-US/help.js
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-// Copyright (c) 2009 by Doug Kearns <dougkearns at gmail.com>
+// Copyright (c) 2009 by Kris Maglione <kris at vimperator.org>
 //
 // This work is licensed for reuse under an MIT license. Details are
 // given in the LICENSE.txt file included with this file.
diff --git a/vimperator/locale/en-US/help.xsl b/vimperator/locale/en-US/help.xsl
new file mode 100644
--- /dev/null
+++ b/vimperator/locale/en-US/help.xsl
@@ -0,0 +1,66 @@
+<xsl:stylesheet version="1.0"
+    xmlns="http://vimperator.org/namespaces/liberator"
+    xmlns:liberator="http://vimperator.org/namespaces/liberator"
+    xmlns:html="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"
+    xmlns:xsl="http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Transform"
+    xmlns:str="http://exslt.org/strings"
+    extension-element-prefixes="str">
+
+    <xsl:output method="html"
+        doctype-public="-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"/>
+
+    <xsl:template match="liberator:document">
+        <html:html liberator:highlight="Help">
+            <html:head/>
+            <html:body liberator:highlight="HelpBody">
+                <html:div class="liberator-logo"/>
+                <xsl:call-template name="parse-tags">
+                    <xsl:with-param name="text" select="@name"/>
+                </xsl:call-template>
+                <xsl:apply-templates/>
+            </html:body>
+        </html:html>
+    </xsl:template>
+
+    <xsl:template match="liberator:dl">
+        <xsl:copy>
+            <column/>
+            <column/>
+            <xsl:for-each select="liberator:dt">
+                <tr>
+                    <xsl:apply-templates select="."/>
+                    <xsl:apply-templates select="following-sibling::liberator:dd[position()=1]"/>
+                </tr>
+            </xsl:for-each>
+        </xsl:copy>
+    </xsl:template>
+
+    <xsl:template match="liberator:tags">
+        <xsl:call-template name="parse-tags">
+            <xsl:with-param name="text" select="."/>
+        </xsl:call-template>
+    </xsl:template>
+
+    <xsl:template name="parse-tags">
+        <xsl:param name="text"/>
+        <tags>
+        <xsl:for-each select="str:tokenize($text)">
+            <tag id="{.}"><xsl:value-of select="."/></tag>
+        </xsl:for-each>
+        </tags>
+    </xsl:template>
+
+    <xsl:template match="liberator:tag|@tag">
+        <xsl:call-template name="parse-tags">
+            <xsl:with-param name="text"><xsl:value-of select="."/></xsl:with-param>
+        </xsl:call-template>
+    </xsl:template>
+
+    <xsl:template match="@*|node()">
+        <xsl:copy>
+            <xsl:apply-templates select="@*|node()"/>
+        </xsl:copy>
+    </xsl:template>
+</xsl:stylesheet>
+
+<!-- vim:se ft=xslt sts=4 sw=4 et: -->
diff --git a/vimperator/locale/en-US/options.xml b/vimperator/locale/en-US/options.xml
new file mode 100644
--- /dev/null
+++ b/vimperator/locale/en-US/options.xml
@@ -0,0 +1,1352 @@
+<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
+<?xml-stylesheet type="text/xsl" href="chrome://liberator/content/help.xsl"?>
+
+<!DOCTYPE document SYSTEM "liberator.dtd" [
+    <!ENTITY appname "Vimperator">
+    <!ENTITY hostapp "Firefox">
+    <!ELEMENT default (#PCDATA)>
+]>
+
+<document
+    name="options"
+    title="&appname; Options"
+    xmlns="http://vimperator.org/namespaces/liberator"
+    xmlns:html="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
+<h1 tag="options">Options</h1>
+
+<p>
+    &appname; has a number of internal variables and switches which can be set to
+    achieve special effects. These options come in 5 forms:
+</p>
+
+<dl>
+    <dt>boolean</dt>       <dd>can only be on or off</dd>
+    <dt>number</dt>        <dd>has a numeric value</dd>
+    <dt>string</dt>        <dd>has a string value</dd>
+    <dt>charlist</dt>      <dd>like a string but with unique characters</dd>
+    <dt>stringlist</dt>    <dd>a comma-separated list of strings</dd>
+</dl>
+
+<h2 tag="set-option E764">Setting options</h2>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>:set :se</tags>
+    <spec>:se[t]</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>Show all options that differ from their default value.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <spec>:se[t] all</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>Show all options.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>E518 E519</tags>
+    <spec>:se[t] <a>option</a>?</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>Show value of <a>option</a>.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <spec>:se[t] <a>option</a> [...]</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Toggle option: set, switch it on.
+            Number option: show value.
+            String option: show value.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <spec>:se[t] no[a]<a>option</a>[a] [...]</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>Toggle option: Reset, switch it off.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <spec>:se[t] <a>option</a>! [...]</spec>
+    <spec>:se[t] inv<a>option</a> [...]</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>Toggle option: Invert value.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <spec>:se[t] inv[a]<a>option</a>[a]=<a>value</a> [...]</spec>
+    <spec>:se[t] <a>option</a>!=<a>value</a> [...]</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>For list options, toggle the specified values.</p>
+
+        <p>If the option is a list, the given values are toggled. Given</p>
+        <code><ex>:set opt=foo,bar</ex></code>
+        <p>then,</p>
+        <code><ex>:set opt!=foo,baz</ex></code>
+        <p>results in</p>
+        <code>opt=bar,baz</code>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>:set-default</tags>
+    <spec>:se[t] <a>option</a>&amp; [...]</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>Reset option to its default value.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <spec>:se[t] all&amp;</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>Set all options to their default value.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>:set-args E487 E521</tags>
+    <spec>:se[t] <a>option</a>=<a>value</a> [...]</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Set string or number option to <a>value</a>.
+            For numeric options the value must be given in decimal.
+            The old value can be inserted by typing <k name="Tab"/>.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>:set+=</tags>
+    <spec>:se[t] <a>option</a>+=<a>value</a> [...]</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Add the <a>value</a> to a number option, or append the <a>value</a>
+            to a string option.  When the option is a comma separated list, a
+            comma is added, unless the value was empty. If the option is a list
+            of flags, superfluous flags are removed.  When adding a flag that
+            was already present the option value doesn't change.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>:set^=</tags>
+    <spec>:se[t] <a>option</a>^=<a>value</a> [...]</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Multiply the <a>value</a> to a number option, or prepend the
+            <a>value</a> to a string option. When the option is a comma
+            separated list, a comma is added, unless the value was empty.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>:set-=</tags>
+    <spec>:se[t] <a>option</a>-=<a>value</a> [...]</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Subtract the <a>value</a> from a number option, or remove the
+            <a>value</a> from a string option if it is there. If the
+            <a>value</a> is not found in a string option, there is no error or
+            warning. When the option is a comma separated list, a comma is
+            deleted, unless the option becomes empty. When the option is a list
+            of flags, <a>value</a> must be exactly as they appear in the option.
+            Remove flags one by one to avoid problems.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>:setlocal :setl</tags>
+    <spec>:setl[ocal]</spec>
+    <spec>:setl[ocal] all</spec>
+    <spec>:setl[ocal] <a>option</a>?</spec>
+    <spec>:setl[ocal] <a>option</a></spec>
+    <spec>:setl[ocal] no[a]<a>option</a>[a]</spec>
+    <spec>:setl[ocal] inv[a]<a>option</a>[a]</spec>
+    <spec>:setl[ocal] <a>option</a>&amp;</spec>
+    <spec>:setl[ocal] all&amp;</spec>
+    <spec>:setl[ocal] <a>option</a>=<a>value</a></spec>
+    <spec>:setl[ocal] <a>option</a>+=<a>value</a></spec>
+    <spec>:setl[ocal] <a>option</a>^=<a>value</a></spec>
+    <spec>:setl[ocal] <a>option</a>-=<a>value</a></spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            The same as <ex>:set</ex> command, but operates on current tab options
+            only. See <ex>:set</ex> for details.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>:setglobal :setg</tags>
+    <spec>:setg[lobal]</spec>
+    <spec>:setg[lobal] all</spec>
+    <spec>:setg[lobal] <a>option</a>?</spec>
+    <spec>:setg[lobal] <a>option</a></spec>
+    <spec>:setg[lobal] no[a]<a>option</a>[a]</spec>
+    <spec>:setg[lobal] inv[a]<a>option</a>[a]</spec>
+    <spec>:setg[lobal] <a>option</a>&amp;</spec>
+    <spec>:setg[lobal] all&amp;</spec>
+    <spec>:setg[lobal] <a>option</a>=<a>value</a></spec>
+    <spec>:setg[lobal] <a>option</a>+=<a>value</a></spec>
+    <spec>:setg[lobal] <a>option</a>^=<a>value</a></spec>
+    <spec>:setg[lobal] <a>option</a>-=<a>value</a></spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            The same as <ex>:set</ex> command, but operates on global options only.
+            See <ex>:set</ex> for details.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<tags>expand-environment-var expand-env :set_env</tags>
+
+<p>
+    Environment variables are expanded for path options like <o>cdpath</o> and
+    <o>runtimepath</o>. The variable notation is _$VAR_ (terminated by a non-word
+    character) or _$\\<a>VAR</a>_. _%VAR%_ is also supported on Windows.
+</p>
+
+<h2 tag="firefox-options preferences">Setting &hostapp; options</h2>
+
+<p>&hostapp; options can be viewed and set with the following commands:</p>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>:prefs :preferences</tags>
+    <spec>:pref[erences]</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Show the &hostapp; preferences dialog. You can change the browser
+            preferences from this dialog. Be aware that not all &hostapp;
+            preferences work, because &appname; overrides some key bindings and
+            changes &hostapp;'s GUI.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>:prefs! :preferences!</tags>
+    <spec>:pref[erences]!</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Opens about:config in the current tab where you can change advanced &hostapp;
+            preferences.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>:set! :set-!</tags>
+    <spec>:se[t]! <a>preference</a>=<a>value</a></spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Change any &hostapp; <a>preference</a> (those in the about:config
+            window). You can also reset/delete those preferences with
+            <ex>:set! <a>preference</a>&amp;</ex>.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<tags>overridden-preferences</tags>
+
+<p>
+    &appname; sets several &hostapp; preferences at startup. If this is undesirable,
+    they can be changed to a different value in your RC file using
+    <ex>:set! <a>preference</a>=<a>value</a></ex>
+</p>
+
+<p>The following preferences are set:</p>
+
+<ul>
+    <li><link href="http://kb.mozillazine.org/Dom.popup_allowed_events">dom.popup_allowed_events</link></li>
+    <li><link href="http://kb.mozillazine.org/Accessibility.typeaheadfind.autostart">accessibility.typeaheadfind.autostart</link></li>
+    <li><link href="http://kb.mozillazine.org/Accessibility.typeaheadfind">accessibility.typeaheadfind</link></li>
+</ul>
+
+<!-- TODO: others? -->
+
+<h2 tag="list-options">List of options</h2>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'act' 'activate'</tags>
+    <spec>'activate' 'act'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default>"homepage,quickmark,tabopen,paste"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Define when tabs are automatically activated. Available items:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <dt>homepage</dt>      <dd><k>gH</k> mapping</dd>
+            <dt>quickmark</dt>     <dd><k>go</k> and <k>gn</k> mappings</dd>
+            <dt>tabopen</dt>       <dd><ex>:tabopen[!]</ex> command</dd>
+            <dt>paste</dt>         <dd><k>P</k> and <k>gP</k> mappings</dd>
+        </dl>
+
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>$CDPATH</tags>
+    <tags>'cd' 'cdpath'</tags>
+    <spec>'cdpath' 'cd'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>equivalent to _$CDPATH_ or ",,"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            List of directories searched when executing the <ex>:cd</ex>
+            command. This is only used for relative paths if an absolute path is
+            specified then the option is ignored.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'cpt' 'complete'</tags>
+    <spec>'complete' 'cpt'</spec>
+    <type>charlist</type>
+    <default>slf</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Items which are completed at the <ex>:open</ex> prompts. Available items:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <dt>s</dt>     <dd>Search engines and keyword URLs</dd>
+            <dt>f</dt>     <dd>Local files</dd>
+            <dt>l</dt>     <dd>&hostapp; location bar entries (bookmarks and history sorted in an intelligent way)</dd>
+            <dt>b</dt>     <dd>Bookmarks</dd>
+            <dt>h</dt>     <dd>History</dd>
+            <dt>S</dt>     <dd>Search engine suggestions</dd>
+            <dt>t</dt>     <dd>Open tabs</dd>
+        </dl>
+
+        <p>
+            The order is important, so <ex>:set complete=bs</ex> would list bookmarks first,
+            and then any available quick searches.
+        </p>
+
+        <warning>
+            Using <em>b</em> and <em>h</em> can make completion very slow if there are many items.
+        </warning>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'ds' 'defsearch'</tags>
+    <spec>'defsearch' 'ds'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>"google"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Sets the default search engine. The default search engine name is
+            used in the <ex>:open [arg]</ex> command if [a][arg][a] neither
+            looks like a URL nor like a specified search engine/keyword.
+        </p>
+
+        <p>
+            This means that if you set <o>defsearch</o> to <str>youtube</str>,
+            then <ex>:open arnold schwarzenegger</ex> will be exactly the same as
+            <ex>:open youtube arnold schwarzenegger</ex>. Therefore, you need
+            to add a keyword or search engine <str>youtube</str> first.
+        </p>
+
+        <p>
+            If <o>defsearch</o> is empty, then &hostapp; will always attempt to
+            open the raw [a][arg][a].
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'editor'</tags>
+    <spec>'editor'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>"gvim -f"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Set the external text editor.
+            Sets the editor to run when <k name="C-i"/> is pressed in Insert and TextArea
+            modes.
+        </p>
+
+        <warning>
+            &appname; will not behave correctly if the editor forks its own
+            process, such as with gvim without the -f argument.
+        </warning>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'noex' 'noexrc'</tags>
+    <tags>'ex' 'exrc'</tags>
+    <spec>'exrc' 'ex'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>off</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Allow reading of an RC file in the current directory. This file is
+            sourced in addition to, and after, your default RC file.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'eht' 'extendedhinttags'</tags>
+    <spec>'extendedhinttags' 'eht'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>
+        //*[@onclick or @onmouseover or @onmousedown or @onmouseup or
+            @oncommand or @class='lk' or @role='link'] |
+        //input[not(@type='hidden')] | //xhtml:input[not(@type='hidden')] |
+        //a | //xhtml:a | //area | //xhtml:area | //iframe | //xhtml:iframe |
+        //textarea | //xhtml:textarea | //button | //xhtml:button |
+        //select | //xhtml:select</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>The XPath string of hintable elements activated by <k>;</k>.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'noeb' 'noerrorbells'</tags>
+    <tags>'eb' 'errorbells'</tags>
+    <spec>'errorbells' 'eb'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>off</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Ring the bell when an error message is displayed.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'ei' 'eventignore'</tags>
+    <spec>'eventignore'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default>""</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            A list of autocommand event names which should be ignored. If the list contains
+            the value <str>all</str> then all events are ignored.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'enc' 'encoding'</tags>
+    <spec>'encoding'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>"UTF-8"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Changes the character encoding of the current buffer. Valid only for
+            the current page.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'fenc' 'fileencoding'</tags>
+    <spec>'fileencoding'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>"UTF-8"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Changes the character encoding that &appname; uses to read and write files.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'nofc' 'nofocuscontent'</tags>
+    <tags>'fc' 'focuscontent'</tags>
+    <spec>'focuscontent' 'fc'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>off</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Focus the content after a page has loaded. This is useful if you
+            always want to stay in Normal mode when browsing between web sites.
+            When <str>on</str>, it blurs any textbox which often is
+            automatically focused on page load.  If you usually like
+            <o>focuscontent</o> but sometimes you'd like to focus the first
+            input field, you can use <k>gi</k> to jump to it.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'fh' 'followhints'</tags>
+    <spec>'followhints' 'fh'</spec>
+    <type>number</type>
+    <default>0</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Change the behaviour of <k name="Return"/> in Hints mode.</p>
+
+        <p>Possible values:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <dt>0</dt>      <dd>Follow the first hint as soon as typed text uniquely identifies it.</dd>
+            <dt>1</dt>      <dd>Follow the selected hint on <k name="Return"/>.</dd>
+            <dt>2</dt>      <dd>Follow the selected hint on <k name="Return"/> only if it's been <k name="Tab"/>-selected.</dd>
+        </dl>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'nofs' 'nofullscreen'</tags>
+    <tags>'fs' 'fullscreen'</tags>
+    <spec>'fullscreen' 'fs'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>off</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Show the current window fullscreen. Also hide certain GUI elements like the
+            statusline.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'go' 'guioptions'</tags>
+    <spec>'guioptions' 'go'</spec>
+    <type>charlist</type>
+    <default>""</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Show or hide certain GUI elements like the menu or toolbar.</p>
+
+        <p>Supported characters:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <dt>m</dt>      <dd>Menubar</dd>
+            <dt>T</dt>      <dd>Toolbar</dd>
+            <dt>B</dt>      <dd>Bookmark bar</dd>
+            <dt>n</dt>      <dd>Tab number</dd>
+            <dt>N</dt>      <dd>Tab number over image</dd>
+            <dt>b</dt>      <dd>Bottom scrollbar</dd>
+            <dt>r</dt>      <dd>Right scrollbar</dd>
+            <dt>l</dt>      <dd>Left scrollbar (<em>l</em> and <em>r</em> are mutually exclusive)</dd>
+        </dl>
+
+        <p>You can also hide the tab bar with <ex>:set showtabline=0</ex>.</p>
+
+        <note>Scrollbar changes require a page reload to take effect.</note>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'hf' 'helpfile'</tags>
+    <spec>'helpfile' 'hf'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>"intro.html"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Name of the main help file. This is the tail component of the chrome
+            URL as displayed in the status line when viewing the page.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'hin' 'hintinputs'</tags>
+    <spec>'hintinputs' 'hin'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default>"label,value"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            When generating hints for input elements that do not have an
+            explicit caption, this specifies the methods to try and generate a
+            textual hint. It tries the options in the order that you give, and
+            uses the first that it finds.
+        </p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <dt>value</dt>      <dd>The hint is the value displayed in a text input, or the selected option for a dropdown.</dd>
+            <dt>label</dt>      <dd>The value of an explicit label for the input, this will not match most manually added labels that are found on sites.</dd>
+            <dt>name </dt>      <dd>The name of the input will be used, although the name is not designed for user consumption, it is frequently very similar to the label.</dd>
+        </dl>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'hm' 'hintmatching'</tags>
+    <spec>'hintmatching' 'hm'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>contains</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Change the hint matching algorithm during Hints mode.</p>
+
+        <p>Possible values:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <dt>contains</dt>           <dd>The typed characters are split on whitespace, and these character groups have to match anywhere inside the text of the link.</dd>
+            <dt>wordstartswith</dt>     <dd>The typed characters are matched with the beginning of the first word (see <o>wordseparators</o>) in the link as long as possible. If no matches occur in the current word, then the matching is continued at the beginning of the next word. The words are worked through in the order they appear in the link. If the typed characters contain spaces, then the characters are split on whitespace. These character groups are then matched with the beginning of the words, beginning at the first one and continuing with the following words in the order they appear in the link.</dd>
+            <dt>firstletters</dt>       <dd>Behaves like wordstartswith, but non-matching words aren't overleaped.</dd>
+            <dt>custom</dt>             <dd>Delegate to a custom function: liberator.plugins.customHintMatcher(hintString)</dd>
+        </dl>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'ht' 'hinttags'</tags>
+    <spec>'hinttags' 'ht'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>
+        //*[@onclick or @onmouseover or @onmousedown or @onmouseup or @oncommand or @class='lk' or @role='link'] |
+        //input[not(@type='hidden')] | //a | //area | //iframe | //textarea | //button | //select |
+        //xhtml:input[not(@type='hidden')] | //xhtml:a | //xhtml:area | //xhtml:iframe |
+        //xhtml:textarea | //xhtml:button | //xhtml:select</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>XPath string of hintable elements activated by <k>f</k> and <k>F</k></p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'hto' 'hinttimeout'</tags>
+    <spec>'hinttimeout' 'hto'</spec>
+    <type>number</type>
+    <default>0</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Timeout before automatically following a non-unique numerical hint. Set to 0
+            (the default) to only follow numeric hints after pressing <k name="Return"/> or
+            when the hint is unique.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'hi' 'history'</tags>
+    <spec>'history' 'hi'</spec>
+    <type>number</type>
+    <default>500</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Number of Ex commands and search patterns to store in the command-line history.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'noprivate' 'private'</tags>
+    <spec>'private'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>off</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Set the <str>private browsing</str> option. In private browsing mode
+            history, cache files, cookies, form data, passwords, download list
+            entries, local and URL marks, command-line history and macros are
+            available only for the duration of the private browsing session and
+            deleted when returning to normal browsing mode.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'nohls' 'nohlsearch'</tags>
+    <tags>'hls' 'hlsearch'</tags>
+    <spec>'hlsearch' 'hls'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>off</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Highlight previous search pattern matches</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'noic' 'noignorecase'</tags>
+    <tags>'ic' 'ignorecase'</tags>
+    <spec>'ignorecase' 'ic'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>on</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Ignore case in search patterns.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'nois' 'noincsearch'</tags>
+    <tags>'is' 'incsearch'</tags>
+    <spec>'incsearch' 'is'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>on</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Show where the search pattern matches as it is typed.</p>
+
+        <note>Incremental searching currently only works in the forward direction.</note>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'noim' 'noinsertmode'</tags>
+    <tags>'im' 'insertmode'</tags>
+    <spec>'insertmode' 'im'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>on</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Use Insert mode as the default for text areas. This is useful if you
+            want to use the known &hostapp; interface for editing text areas.
+            Input fields default to this behaviour irrespective of this option's
+            setting.
+        </p>
+
+        <p>
+            Textarea mode can be entered with <k name="C-t"/> from Insert mode.
+            <!-- TODO: <C-t> is not documented yet. -->
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'ls' 'laststatus'</tags>
+    <spec>'laststatus' 'ls'</spec>
+    <type>number</type>
+    <default>2</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Determines when the last window will have a status line.</p>
+
+        <p>Possible values:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <dt>0</dt>      <dd>Never</dd>
+            <dt>1</dt>      <dd>Only if there are multiple windows</dd>
+            <dt>2</dt>      <dd>Always</dd>
+        </dl>
+
+        <note>laststatus=1 not implemented yet.</note>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'nolks' 'nolinksearch'</tags>
+    <tags>'lks' 'linksearch'</tags>
+    <spec>'linksearch' 'lks'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>off</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Limit the search to hyperlink text.  This includes (X)HTML elements
+            with an <str>href</str> atrribute and XLink <str>simple</str> links.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'nolpl' 'lpl'</tags>
+    <tags>'noloadplugins' 'loadplugins'</tags>
+    <spec>'loadplugins' 'lpl'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>on</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Load plugin scripts when starting up. When on, yet unloaded plugins
+            are automatically loaded after the vimperatorrc file has been
+            sourced. To load plugins earlier, use the <ex>:loadplugins</ex>
+            command within the vimperatorrc.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'maxitems'</tags>
+    <spec>'maxitems'</spec>
+    <type>number</type>
+    <default>20</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Maximum number of items to display at once in a listing.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'msgs' 'messages'</tags>
+    <spec>'messages' 'msgs'</spec>
+    <type>number</type>
+    <default>100</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Number of messages to store in the message history.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'nomore' 'more'</tags>
+    <spec>'more'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>on</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Pause the message list window when more than one screen of listings is displayed.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'nextpattern'</tags>
+    <spec>'nextpattern'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default>\bnext,^>$,^(>>|?)$,^(>|?),(>|?)$,\bmore\b</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Patterns to use when guessing the <o>next</o> page in a document
+            sequence when the user hits <k>]]</k>. Each pattern, in order, is
+            matched against all links in the page with the first match being
+            used. The patterns are case insensitive regular expressions and the
+            link elements are those defined by <o>hinttags</o>.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'newtab'</tags>
+    <spec>'newtab'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default>""</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Define which Ex commands output the result in a new tab
+            automatically. You can also use <ex>:tab command</ex> to manually
+            output a command in a new tab.
+        </p>
+
+        <p>The possible values:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <dt>all</dt>            <dd>All commands</dd>
+            <dt>addons</dt>         <dd><ex>:addo[ns]</ex> command</dd>
+            <dt>downloads</dt>      <dd><ex>:downl[oads]</ex> command</dd>
+            <dt>extoptions</dt>     <dd><ex>:exto[ptions]</ex> command</dd>
+            <dt>help</dt>           <dd><ex>:h[elp]</ex> command</dd>
+            <dt>javascript</dt>     <dd><ex>:javascript!</ex> or <ex>:js!</ex> command</dd>
+            <dt>prefs</dt>          <dd><ex>:pref[erences]!</ex> or <ex>:prefs!</ex> command</dd>
+        </dl>
+
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'noonline' 'online'</tags>
+    <spec>'online'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>on</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Show and set the 'work offline' behavior.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'pageinfo' 'pa'</tags>
+    <spec>'pageinfo' 'pa'</spec>
+
+    <type>charlist</type>
+    <default>gfm</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Desired info in the <ex>:pageinfo</ex> output.</p>
+
+        <p>Available items:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <dt>g</dt>      <dd>General info</dd>
+            <dt>f</dt>      <dd>Feeds</dd>
+            <dt>m</dt>      <dd>Meta tags</dd>
+        </dl>
+
+        <p>
+            The order of the options defines the order in which they appear in
+            the result.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'pps' 'popups'</tags>
+    <spec>'popups' 'pps'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default>tab</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Define where to show requested popup windows.  Does not apply to
+            windows which are opened by middle clicking a link, they always open
+            in a new tab.
+        </p>
+
+        <p>Possible values:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <dt>tab</dt>            <dd>Open popups in a new tab</dd>
+            <dt>window</dt>         <dd>Open popups in a new window</dd>
+            <dt>resized</dt>        <dd>Open resized popups in a new window</dd>
+        </dl>
+
+        <p>
+            If neither <em>tab</em> nor <em>window</em> is provided, all popups open in the current tab.
+            <em>tab</em> and <em>window</em> are mutually exclusive, and the last one listed is
+            effective.
+        </p>
+
+        <note>This option does not change the popup blocker of &hostapp; in any way.</note>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'previouspattern'</tags>
+    <spec>'previouspattern'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default><![CDATA[\bprev|previous\b,^<$,^(<<|?)$,^(<|?),(<|?)$]]></default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Patterns to use when guessing the <o>previous</o> page in a document
+            sequence when the user hits <ex>[[</ex>. Each pattern, in order, is
+            matched against all links in the page with the first match being
+            used. The patterns are case insensitive regular expressions and the
+            link elements are those defined by <o>hinttags</o>.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>$VIMPERATOR_RUNTIME</tags>
+    <tags>'rtp' 'runtimepath'</tags>
+    <spec>'runtimepath' 'rtp'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default>_$VIMPERATOR_RUNTIME_ or $$Unix, Mac: "~/.vimperator", Windows: "~/vimperator"$$</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>List of directories searched for runtime files:</p>
+
+        <ul>
+            <li>colors/</li>
+            <li>macros/</li>
+            <li>plugin/</li>
+        </ul>
+
+        <p>Example:</p>
+
+        <code><ex>:set runtimepath=$$~/myvimperator,~/.vimperator$$</ex></code>
+
+        <p>
+            This will search for plugins in both
+            <str>~/myvimperator/plugin</str> and
+            <str>~/.vimperator/plugin</str>
+        </p>
+
+        <p>
+            On startup, if the environment variable _$VIMPERATOR_RUNTIME_ does not
+            exist, &appname; will set it to match this value.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'si' 'sanitizeitems'</tags>
+    <spec>'sanitizeitems' 'si'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default>"cache,commandline,cookies,formdata,history,marks,sessions"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>The default list of private items to sanitize.</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <dt>cache       </dt>       <dd>Cache</dd>
+            <dt>commandline </dt>       <dd>Command-line history</dd>
+            <dt>cookies     </dt>       <dd>Cookies</dd>
+            <dt>downloads   </dt>       <dd>Download history</dd>
+            <dt>formdata    </dt>       <dd>Saved form and search history</dd>
+            <dt>history     </dt>       <dd>Browsing history</dd>
+            <dt>marks       </dt>       <dd>Local and URL marks</dd>
+            <dt>macros      </dt>       <dd>Saved macros</dd>
+            <dt>offlineapps </dt>       <dd>Offline website data</dd>
+            <dt>passwords   </dt>       <dd>Saved passwords</dd>
+            <dt>sessions    </dt>       <dd>Authenticated sessions</dd>
+            <dt>sitesettings</dt>       <dd>Site preferences</dd>
+        </dl>
+
+        <p>
+            When history items are sanitized <ex>:open</ex>,
+            <ex>:tabopen</ex> and <ex>:winopen</ex> command-line
+            history entries are also removed.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'sts' 'sanitizetimespan'</tags>
+    <spec>'sanitizetimespan' 'sts'</spec>
+    <type>number</type>
+    <default>1</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            The default sanitizer time span. Only items created within this timespan are
+            deleted.
+        </p>
+
+        <note>This only applies to <em>cookies</em>, <em>history</em>, <em>formdata</em>, and <em>downloads</em>.</note>
+
+        <dl>
+            <dt>0</dt>      <dd>Everything</dd>
+            <dt>1</dt>      <dd>Last hour</dd>
+            <dt>2</dt>      <dd>Last two hours</dd>
+            <dt>3</dt>      <dd>Last four hours</dd>
+            <dt>4</dt>      <dd>Today</dd>
+        </dl>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'scr' 'scroll'</tags>
+    <spec>'scroll' 'scr'</spec>
+    <type>number</type>
+    <default>0</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Number of lines to scroll with <k name="C-u"/> and <k name="C-d"/>
+            commands.  The number of lines scrolled defaults to half the window
+            size.  When a [count] is specified to the <k name="C-u"/> or
+            <k name="C-d"/> commands this is used to set the value of
+            <o>scroll</o> and also used for the current command. The value can
+            be reset to half the window height with <ex>:set scroll=0</ex>.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'shell' 'sh'</tags>
+    <spec>'shell' 'sh'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>_$SHELL_ or "sh", Win32: "cmd.exe"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Shell to use for executing <ex>:!</ex> and <ex>:run</ex> commands.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'shellcmdflag' 'shcf'</tags>
+    <spec>'shellcmdflag' 'shcf'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>"-c", Win32: "/c"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Flag passed to shell when executing <ex>:!</ex> and <ex>:run</ex> commands.</p>
+
+        <example><str>bash -c gvim</str></example>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'nosmd' 'noshowmode'</tags>
+    <tags>'smd' 'showmode'</tags>
+    <spec>'showmode' 'smd'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>on</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Show the current mode in the command line.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'ssli' 'showstatuslinks'</tags>
+    <spec>'showstatuslinks' 'ssli'</spec>
+    <type>number</type>
+    <default>1</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Show the destination of the link under the cursor in the status bar.
+            Also links which are focused by keyboard commands like
+            <k name="Tab"/> are shown.
+        </p>
+
+        <p>Possible values:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <dt>0</dt>      <dd>Don't show link destination</dd>
+            <dt>1</dt>      <dd>Show the link in the status line</dd>
+            <dt>2</dt>      <dd>Show the link in the command line</dd>
+        </dl>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'stal' 'showtabline'</tags>
+    <spec>'showtabline' 'stal'</spec>
+    <type>number</type>
+    <default>2</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Control when to show the tab bar of opened web pages.</p>
+
+        <p>Possible values:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <dt>0</dt>      <dd>Never show tab bar</dd>
+            <dt>1</dt>      <dd>Show tab bar only if more than one tab is open</dd>
+            <dt>2</dt>      <dd>Always show tab bar</dd>
+        </dl>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'noscs' 'nosmartcase'</tags>
+    <tags>'scs' 'smartcase'</tags>
+    <spec>'smartcase' 'scs'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>on</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Override the <o>ignorecase</o> option if the pattern contains
+            uppercase characters.  This is only used if the <o>ignorecase</o>
+            option is set.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'suggestengines'</tags>
+    <spec>'suggestengines'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default>"google"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Set the search engines which can be used for completion suggestions.
+            Add <str>S</str> to the <o>complete</o> option if you want to use
+            this feature.
+        </p>
+
+        <warning>
+            This feature could make tab-completion slower because it needs to
+            wait for changes, so use it only if you have a fast internet
+            connection.
+        </warning>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'titlestring'</tags>
+    <spec>'titlestring'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>"&appname;"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Change the title of the browser window.  &appname; changes the
+            browser title from <str>Title of web page - Mozilla &hostapp;</str>
+            to <str>Title of web page - &appname;</str>.  If you don't like
+            that, you can restore it with: 
+        </p>
+        <code><ex>:set titlestring=<str>Mozilla &hostapp;</str></ex></code>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'noum' 'nousermode'</tags>
+    <tags>'um' 'usermode'</tags>
+    <spec>'usermode' 'um'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>off</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Show current website with a minimal style sheet to make it easily accessible.</p>
+
+        <note>This is a local option for now, a global value may be supported in the future.</note>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'urlseparator'</tags>
+    <spec>'urlseparator'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>",\s"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Set the separator regex used to separate multiple URL args. Multiple
+            arguments can be specified for <ex>:open</ex>, and similar commands,
+            using this regex as the separator. Using whitespace alone is not
+            generally useful since it is often contained in a single argument.
+            E.g., <ex>:open linus torvalds</ex> should perform a single search
+            for the key words <str>linus</str> and <str>torvalds</str>. If this
+            is set to the empty string then these arguments will never be split.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'verbose', 'vbs'</tags>
+    <spec>'verbose' 'vbs'</spec>
+    <type>number</type>
+    <default>1</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Define which info messages are displayed.  When bigger than zero,
+            &appname; will give messages about what it is doing.  These can be
+            viewed at any time with the <ex>:messages</ex> command. The highest
+            value is 15, being the most verbose mode.
+        </p>
+        <!-- TODO: list levels and associated messages -->
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'novb' 'novisualbell'</tags>
+    <tags>'vb' 'visualbell'</tags>
+    <spec>'visualbell' 'vb'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>off</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Use visual bell instead of beeping on errors. The visual bell style is
+            controlled by <ex>:hi Bell</ex>.
+        </p>
+
+        <p>
+            To disable both the audible and visual bells use <ex>:set visualbell</ex>
+            and <ex>:hi Bell display: none;</ex>
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'wildcase' 'wic'</tags>
+    <spec>'wildcase' 'wic'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>"smart"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Defines how completions are matched with regard to character case. Possible values:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <dt><str>smart</str></dt>  <dd>Case is significant when capital letters are typed</dd>
+            <dt><str>match</str></dt>  <dd>Case is always significant</dd>
+            <dt><str>ignore</str></dt> <dd>Case is never significant</dd>
+        </dl>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'wildignore' 'wig'</tags>
+    <spec>'wildignore' 'wig'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default>""</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            List of file patterns to ignore when completing files. E.g., to ignore object
+            files and Vim swap files 
+            <ex>:set wildignore=<str>.<em>\.o,\..</em>\.s[a-z]\\<a>2</a></str></ex>
+        </p>
+
+        <note>Unlike Vim each pattern is a regex rather than a glob.</note>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'wim' 'wildmode'</tags>
+    <spec>'wildmode' 'wim'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default>"list:full"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Defines how command-line completion works.  It is a comma-separated
+            list of parts, where each part specifies what to do for each
+            consecutive use of the completion key.  The first part specifies the
+            behavior for the first use of the completion key, the second part
+            for the second use, etc.
+        </p>
+
+        <p>These are the possible values for each part:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <dt><str></str></dt>             <dd>Complete only the first match.</dd>
+            <dt><str>full</str></dt>         <dd>Complete the next full match. After the last, the original string is used.</dd>
+            <dt><str>longest</str></dt>      <dd>Complete till the longest common string.</dd>
+            <dt><str>list</str></dt>         <dd>When more than one match, list all matches.</dd>
+            <dt><str>list:full</str></dt>    <dd>When more than one match, list all matches and complete the first match.</dd>
+            <dt><str>list:longest</str></dt>
+            <dd>
+                When more than one match, list all matches and
+                complete till the longest common string. When there
+                is only a single match, it is fully completed
+                regardless of the case.
+            </dd>
+        </dl>
+
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'wop' 'wildoptions'</tags>
+    <spec>'wildoptions' 'wop'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default>""</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>A list of words that change how command-line completion is done.</p>
+
+        <p>Possible words:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <dt>auto</dt>       <dd>Automatically show completions while you are typing.</dd>
+            <dt>sort</dt>       <dd>Always sort the completion list, overriding the <o>complete</o> option.</dd>
+        </dl>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'wsp' 'wordseparators'</tags>
+    <spec>'wordseparators' 'wsp'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default><![CDATA[[\.,!\?:;/\\"\^\$%&?\(\)\[\]\\<a>\\</a><>#\\*\+\\|=~ _\\-]]]></default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            A regex which defines the word separators which are used for the
+            <o>hintmatching</o> types <str>wordstartswith</str> and
+            "firstletters" to split the words in the text of a link.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+</document>
+<!-- vim:se sts=4 sw=4 et: -->
diff --git a/xulmus/components b/xulmus/components
new file mode 120000
--- /dev/null
+++ b/xulmus/components
@@ -0,0 +1,1 @@
+../common/components
\ No newline at end of file
diff --git a/xulmus/components/chrome-data.js b/xulmus/components/chrome-data.js
deleted file mode 100644
--- a/xulmus/components/chrome-data.js
+++ /dev/null
@@ -1,110 +0,0 @@
-// Copyright (c) 2008-2009 by Kris Maglione <maglione.k at Gmail>
-//
-// This work is licensed for reuse under an MIT license. Details are
-// given in the LICENSE.txt file included with this file.
-
-
-/* Adds support for data: URIs with chrome privileges
- * and fragment identifiers.
- *
- * "chrome-data:" <content-type> [; <flag>]* "," [<data>]
- *
- * By Kris Maglione, ideas from Ed Anuff's nsChromeExtensionHandler.
- *
- * ?2008-2009 Kris Maglione <maglione.k at Gmail>
- *
- * Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a
- * copy of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"),
- * to deal in the Software without restriction, including without limitation
- * the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense,
- * and/or sell copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the
- * Software is furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions:
- *
- * The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in
- * all copies or substantial portions of the Software.
- *
- * THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR
- * IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY,
- * FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT.  IN NO EVENT SHALL
- * THE AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER
- * LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING
- * FROM, OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER
- * DEALINGS IN THE SOFTWARE.
- */
-
-Components.utils.import("resource://gre/modules/XPCOMUtils.jsm");
-
-const NS_BINDING_ABORTED = 0x804b0002;
-const nsIProtocolHandler = Components.interfaces.nsIProtocolHandler;
-
-const ioService = Components.classes["@mozilla.org/network/io-service;1"]
-                            .getService(Components.interfaces.nsIIOService);
-
-let channel = Components.classesByID["{61ba33c0-3031-11d3-8cd0-0060b0fc14a3}"]
-                        .getService(Components.interfaces.nsIProtocolHandler)
-                        .newChannel(ioService.newURI("chrome://liberator/content/data", null, null))
-                        .QueryInterface(Components.interfaces.nsIRequest);
-const systemPrincipal = channel.owner;
-channel.cancel(NS_BINDING_ABORTED);
-delete channel;
-
-var instance;
-function ChromeData() {}
-ChromeData.prototype = {
-    contractID:       "@mozilla.org/network/protocol;1?name=chrome-data",
-    classID:          Components.ID("{c1b67a07-18f7-4e13-b361-2edcc35a5a0d}"),
-    classDescription: "Data URIs with chrome privileges",
-    QueryInterface:   XPCOMUtils.generateQI([Components.interfaces.nsIProtocolHandler]),
-    _xpcom_factory: {
-        createInstance: function (outer, iid)
-        {
-            if (!instance)
-            instance = new ChromeData();
-            if (outer != null)
-            throw Components.results.NS_ERROR_NO_AGGREGATION;
-            return instance.QueryInterface(iid);
-        }
-    },
-
-    scheme: "chrome-data",
-    defaultPort: -1,
-    allowPort: function (port, scheme) false,
-    protocolFlags: nsIProtocolHandler.URI_NORELATIVE
-         | nsIProtocolHandler.URI_NOAUTH
-         | nsIProtocolHandler.URI_IS_UI_RESOURCE,
-
-    newURI: function (spec, charset, baseURI)
-    {
-        var uri = Components.classes["@mozilla.org/network/standard-url;1"]
-                            .createInstance(Components.interfaces.nsIStandardURL)
-                            .QueryInterface(Components.interfaces.nsIURI);
-        uri.init(1, -1, spec, charset, null);
-        return uri;
-    },
-
-    newChannel: function (uri)
-    {
-        try
-        {
-            if (uri.scheme == this.scheme)
-            {
-                let newURI = ioService.newURI(uri.spec.replace(/^.*?:\/*(.*)(?:#.*)?/, "data:$1"), null, null);
-                let channel = ioService.newChannelFromURI(newURI);
-                channel.owner = systemPrincipal;
-                channel.originalURI = uri;
-                return channel;
-            }
-        }
-        catch (e) {}
-        throw Components.results.NS_ERROR_FAILURE;
-    }
-};
-
-var components = [ChromeData];
-
-function NSGetModule(compMgr, fileSpec)
-{
-    return XPCOMUtils.generateModule(components);
-}
-
-// vim: set fdm=marker sw=4 ts=4 et:
diff --git a/xulmus/components/commandline-handler.js b/xulmus/components/commandline-handler.js
deleted file mode 100644
--- a/xulmus/components/commandline-handler.js
+++ /dev/null
@@ -1,45 +0,0 @@
-// Copyright (c) 2009 by Doug Kearns <dougkearns at gmail.com>
-//
-// This work is licensed for reuse under an MIT license. Details are
-// given in the LICENSE.txt file included with this file.
-
-
-Components.utils.import("resource://gre/modules/XPCOMUtils.jsm");
-
-function CommandLineHandler()
-{
-    this.wrappedJSObject = this;
-}
-
-CommandLineHandler.prototype = {
-
-    classDescription: "Xulmus Command-line Handler",
-
-    classID: Components.ID("{155807a6-02da-4812-981c-e910aa7eba42}"),
-
-    contractID: "@mozilla.org/commandlinehandler/general-startup;1?type=xulmus",
-
-    _xpcom_categories: [{
-        category: "command-line-handler",
-        entry: "m-xulmus"
-    }],
-
-    QueryInterface: XPCOMUtils.generateQI([Components.interfaces.nsICommandLineHandler]),
-
-    handle: function (commandLine)
-    {
-        // TODO: handle remote launches differently?
-        try
-        {
-            this.optionValue = commandLine.handleFlagWithParam("xulmus", false);
-        }
-        catch (e)
-        {
-            //"xulmus: option -xulmus requires an argument"
-        }
-    }
-};
-
-function NSGetModule(compMgr, fileSpec) XPCOMUtils.generateModule([CommandLineHandler]);
-
-// vim: set fdm=marker sw=4 ts=4 et:

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Fri Oct 23 22:12:47 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 01:12:47 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH 0 of 1] Towards replacing asciidoc.
In-Reply-To: <patchbomb.1256174233@localhost.localdomain>
References: <patchbomb.1256174233@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20091024051247.GG23287@jg>

Sorry, ignore the patch in the last message.

Also, once you've applied it, just type :h options

-- 
Kris Maglione

If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts.
	--Albert Einstein

-------------- next part --------------
# HG changeset patch
# User Kris Maglione <jg at suckless.org>
# Date 1256361115 14400
# Node ID 2c6f800bacce6337750388899327d8626dae1a5e
# Parent  4e4da714d3e3318e0e96566e05f514078c49feca
Replace asciidoc.

diff --git a/vimperator/components/about-handler.js b/common/components/about-handler.js
rename from vimperator/components/about-handler.js
rename to common/components/about-handler.js
diff --git a/vimperator/components/chrome-data.js b/common/components/chrome-data.js
rename from vimperator/components/chrome-data.js
rename to common/components/chrome-data.js
--- a/vimperator/components/chrome-data.js
+++ b/common/components/chrome-data.js
@@ -10,44 +10,41 @@
  * "chrome-data:" <content-type> [; <flag>]* "," [<data>]
  *
  * By Kris Maglione, ideas from Ed Anuff's nsChromeExtensionHandler.
- *
- *
- * Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a
- * copy of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"),
- * to deal in the Software without restriction, including without limitation
- * the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense,
- * and/or sell copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the
- * Software is furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions:
- *
- * The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in
- * all copies or substantial portions of the Software.
- *
- * THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR
- * IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY,
- * FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT.  IN NO EVENT SHALL
- * THE AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER
- * LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING
- * FROM, OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER
- * DEALINGS IN THE SOFTWARE.
  */
 
+const Ci = Components.interfaces, Cc = Components.classes;
+
 Components.utils.import("resource://gre/modules/XPCOMUtils.jsm");
 
 const NS_BINDING_ABORTED = 0x804b0002;
 const nsIProtocolHandler = Components.interfaces.nsIProtocolHandler;
 
-const ioService = Components.classes["@mozilla.org/network/io-service;1"]
-                            .getService(Components.interfaces.nsIIOService);
+const ioService = Cc["@mozilla.org/network/io-service;1"].getService(Ci.nsIIOService);
 
 let channel = Components.classesByID["{61ba33c0-3031-11d3-8cd0-0060b0fc14a3}"]
-                        .getService(Components.interfaces.nsIProtocolHandler)
+                        .getService(Ci.nsIProtocolHandler)
                         .newChannel(ioService.newURI("chrome://liberator/content/data", null, null))
-                        .QueryInterface(Components.interfaces.nsIRequest);
+                        .QueryInterface(Ci.nsIRequest);
 const systemPrincipal = channel.owner;
 channel.cancel(NS_BINDING_ABORTED);
 delete channel;
 
-var instance;
+function makeChannel(url, orig)
+{
+    let uri = ioService.newURI(url, null, null);
+    let channel = ioService.newChannelFromURI(uri);
+    channel.owner = systemPrincipal;
+    channel.originalURI = orig;
+    return channel;
+}
+function fakeChannel(orig)
+    makeChannel("chrome://does/not/exist/in/any/reasonable/configuration", orig);
+function redirect(to, orig)
+{
+    let html = <html><head><meta http-equiv="Refresh" content={"0;" + to}/></head></html>.toXMLString();
+    return makeChannel('data:text/html,' + escape(html), orig);
+}
+
 function ChromeData() {}
 ChromeData.prototype = {
     contractID:       "@mozilla.org/network/protocol;1?name=chrome-data",
@@ -57,11 +54,11 @@ ChromeData.prototype = {
     _xpcom_factory: {
         createInstance: function (outer, iid)
         {
-            if (!instance)
-            instance = new ChromeData();
+            if (!ChromeData.instance)
+                ChromeData.instance = new ChromeData();
             if (outer != null)
-            throw Components.results.NS_ERROR_NO_AGGREGATION;
-            return instance.QueryInterface(iid);
+                throw Components.results.NS_ERROR_NO_AGGREGATION;
+            return ChromeData.instance.QueryInterface(iid);
         }
     },
 
@@ -77,7 +74,7 @@ ChromeData.prototype = {
         var uri = Components.classes["@mozilla.org/network/standard-url;1"]
                             .createInstance(Components.interfaces.nsIStandardURL)
                             .QueryInterface(Components.interfaces.nsIURI);
-        uri.init(1, -1, spec, charset, null);
+        uri.init(uri.URLTYPE_STANDARD, this.defaultPort, spec, charset, null);
         return uri;
     },
 
@@ -86,20 +83,120 @@ ChromeData.prototype = {
         try
         {
             if (uri.scheme == this.scheme)
-            {
-                let newURI = ioService.newURI(uri.spec.replace(/^.*?:\/*(.*)(?:#.*)?/, "data:$1"), null, null);
-                let channel = ioService.newChannelFromURI(newURI);
-                channel.owner = systemPrincipal;
-                channel.originalURI = uri;
-                return channel;
-            }
+                return makeChannel(uri.spec.replace(/^.*?:\/*(.*)(?:#.*)?/, "data:$1"), uri);
         }
         catch (e) {}
-        throw Components.results.NS_ERROR_FAILURE;
+        return fakeChannel();
     }
 };
 
-var components = [ChromeData];
+function Liberator()
+{
+    this.wrappedJSObject = this;
+
+    this.__defineGetter__("helpFiles", function () HELP_FILES ? HELP_FILES.slice() : null);
+    this.__defineSetter__("helpFiles", function (files) {
+        if (!HELP_FILES)
+            parseHelpTags(files);
+    });
+
+    function xpath(doc, expression)
+    {
+        let result = doc.evaluate(expression, doc,
+            function lookupNamespaceURI(prefix) ({
+                    xhtml: "http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml",
+                    liberator: "http://vimperator.org/namespaces/liberator",
+                }[prefix] || null),
+            5, null);
+        result.__iterator__ = function () { let elem; while ((elem = this.iterateNext())) yield elem; };
+        return result;
+    }
+
+    function httpGet(url)
+    {
+        try
+        {
+            let xmlhttp = Cc["@mozilla.org/xmlextras/xmlhttprequest;1"].createInstance(Ci.nsIXMLHttpRequest);
+            xmlhttp.open("GET", url, false);
+            xmlhttp.send(null);
+            return xmlhttp;
+        }
+        catch (e) {}
+    }
+
+    const HELP_TAGS = {};
+    this.HELP_TAGS = HELP_TAGS;
+    var HELP_FILES = null;
+
+    function parseHelpTags(files)
+    {
+        const XSLT = Cc["@mozilla.org/document-transformer;1?type=xslt"].createInstance(Ci.nsIXSLTProcessor);
+        XSLT.importStylesheet(httpGet("chrome://liberator/content/help.xsl").responseXML);
+        for each (let file in files)
+        {
+            let res = httpGet("liberator://help/" + file);
+            if (res)
+            {
+                let doc = XSLT.transformToDocument(res.responseXML);
+                for (let elem in xpath(doc, "//liberator:tag/text()"))
+                    HELP_TAGS[elem.textContent] = file;
+            }
+        }
+        HELP_FILES = Array.slice(files);
+    }
+}
+Liberator.prototype = {
+    contractID:       "@mozilla.org/network/protocol;1?name=liberator",
+    classID:          Components.ID("{9c8f2530-51c8-4d41-b356-319e0b155c44}"),
+    classDescription: "Liberator utility protocol",
+    QueryInterface:   XPCOMUtils.generateQI([Components.interfaces.nsIProtocolHandler]),
+    _xpcom_factory: {
+        createInstance: function (outer, iid)
+        {
+            if (!Liberator.instance)
+                Liberator.instance = new Liberator();
+            if (outer != null)
+                throw Components.results.NS_ERROR_NO_AGGREGATION;
+            return Liberator.instance.QueryInterface(iid);
+        }
+    },
+
+    scheme: "liberator",
+    defaultPort: -1,
+    allowPort: function (port, scheme) false,
+    protocolFlags: 0
+         | nsIProtocolHandler.URI_IS_UI_RESOURCE
+         | nsIProtocolHandler.URI_IS_LOCAL_RESOURCE,
+
+    newURI: function (spec, charset, baseURI)
+    {
+        var uri = Components.classes["@mozilla.org/network/standard-url;1"]
+                            .createInstance(Components.interfaces.nsIStandardURL)
+                            .QueryInterface(Components.interfaces.nsIURI);
+        uri.init(uri.URLTYPE_STANDARD, this.defaultPort, spec, charset, baseURI);
+        return uri;
+    },
+
+    newChannel: function (uri)
+    {
+        try
+        {
+            switch(uri.host)
+            {
+                case "help":
+                    return makeChannel("chrome://liberator/locale" + uri.path.replace(/#.*/, "") + ".xml", uri);
+                case "help-tag":
+                    let tag = uri.path.substr(1);
+                    if (tag in this.HELP_TAGS)
+                        return redirect("liberator://help/" + this.HELP_TAGS[tag] + "#" + tag, uri);
+            }
+        }
+        catch (e) { dump(e + "\n"); dump(e.stack); }
+        return fakeChannel(uri);
+    }
+};
+
+var components = [ChromeData, Liberator];
 
 function NSGetModule(compMgr, fileSpec)
 {
diff --git a/vimperator/components/commandline-handler.js b/common/components/commandline-handler.js
rename from vimperator/components/commandline-handler.js
rename to common/components/commandline-handler.js
diff --git a/common/content/completion.js b/common/content/completion.js
--- a/common/content/completion.js
+++ b/common/content/completion.js
@@ -233,7 +233,10 @@ CompletionContext.prototype = {
                 if (!context.hasItems)
                     return [];
                 let prefix = self.value.substring(minStart, context.offset);
-                return context.items.map(function makeItem(item) ({ text: prefix + item.text, item: item.item }));
+                return context.items.map(function (item) {
+                    item.text = prefix + item.text;
+                    return item;
+                });
             });
             return { start: minStart, items: util.Array.flatten(items), longestSubstring: this.longestAllSubstring };
         }
diff --git a/common/content/help.js b/common/content/help.js
--- a/common/content/help.js
+++ b/common/content/help.js
@@ -1,17 +1,21 @@
-// Copyright (c) 2009 by Kris Maglione <maglione.k at Gmail>
+// Copyright (c) 2009 by Kris Maglione <kris at vimperator.org>
 //
 // This work is licensed for reuse under an MIT license. Details are
 // given in the LICENSE.txt file included with this file.
 
 
-const win = Components.classes["@mozilla.org/embedcomp/window-watcher;1"]
-                      .getService(Ci.nsIWindowWatcher)
-                      .activeWindow;
-const liberator = win.liberator;
+function checkFragment()
+{
+    var frag = document.location.hash.substr(1);
+    var elem = document.getElementById(frag);
+    if (elem)
+        window.content.scrollTo(0, window.content.scrollY + elem.getBoundingClientRect().top - 10); // 10px context
+}
 
-let page = liberator.findHelp(decodeURIComponent(document.location.search.substr(1)));
-let url = page ? "chrome://liberator/locale/" + page : content.history.previous;
-
-win.getBrowser().loadURIWithFlags(url, Components.interfaces.nsIWebNavigation.LOAD_FLAGS_REPLACE_HISTORY, null, null, null);
+document.addEventListener("load", checkFragment, true);
+window.addEventListener("message", function (event) {
+    if (event.data == "fragmentChange")
+        checkFragment();
+}, true);
 
 // vim: set fdm=marker sw=4 ts=4 et:
diff --git a/common/content/help.xsl b/common/content/help.xsl
new file mode 100644
--- /dev/null
+++ b/common/content/help.xsl
@@ -0,0 +1,112 @@
+<xsl:stylesheet version="1.0"
+    xmlns="http://vimperator.org/namespaces/liberator"
+    xmlns:liberator="http://vimperator.org/namespaces/liberator"
+    xmlns:html="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"
+    xmlns:xsl="http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Transform"
+    xmlns:str="http://exslt.org/strings"
+    extension-element-prefixes="str">
+
+    <xsl:output method="xml"/>
+
+    <xsl:template match="liberator:document">
+        <html:html liberator:highlight="Help">
+            <html:head>
+                <html:title><xsl:value-of select="@title"/></html:title>
+                <html:base href="liberator://help/{@name}"/>
+                <html:script type="text/javascript"
+                    src="chrome://liberator/content/help.js"/>
+            </html:head>
+            <html:body liberator:highlight="HelpBody">
+                <html:div class="liberator-logo"/>
+                <xsl:call-template name="parse-tags">
+                    <xsl:with-param name="text" select="concat(@name, '.html')"/>
+                </xsl:call-template>
+                <xsl:apply-templates/>
+            </html:body>
+        </html:html>
+    </xsl:template>
+
+    <xsl:template match="liberator:dl">
+        <xsl:copy>
+            <column/>
+            <column/>
+            <xsl:for-each select="liberator:dt">
+                <tr>
+                    <xsl:apply-templates select="."/>
+                    <xsl:apply-templates select="following-sibling::liberator:dd[position()=1]"/>
+                </tr>
+            </xsl:for-each>
+        </xsl:copy>
+    </xsl:template>
+
+    <xsl:template match="liberator:tags">
+        <xsl:call-template name="parse-tags">
+            <xsl:with-param name="text" select="."/>
+        </xsl:call-template>
+    </xsl:template>
+
+    <xsl:template name="parse-tags">
+        <xsl:param name="text"/>
+        <tags>
+        <xsl:for-each select="str:tokenize($text)">
+            <html:a id="{.}"><tag><xsl:value-of select="."/></tag></html:a>
+        </xsl:for-each>
+        </tags>
+    </xsl:template>
+
+    <xsl:template name="linkify-tag">
+        <xsl:param name="contents"/>
+        <xsl:variable name="tag" select="str:tokenize($contents, ' [')[1]"/>
+        <html:a href="liberator://help-tag/{$tag}" style="color: inherit">
+            <xsl:if test="
+                //liberator:tags[contains(concat(' ', ., ' '), concat(' ', $tag, ' '))] |
+                //liberator:tag[contains(concat(' ', ., ' '), concat(' ', $tag, ' '))] |
+                //@tag[contains(concat(' ', ., ' '), concat(' ', $tag, ' '))]">
+                <xsl:attribute name="href">#<xsl:value-of select="$tag"/></xsl:attribute>
+            </xsl:if>
+            <xsl:value-of select="$contents"/>
+        </html:a>
+    </xsl:template>
+    <xsl:template match="liberator:o">
+        <xsl:copy>
+            <xsl:call-template name="linkify-tag">
+                <xsl:with-param name="contents" select='concat("&#39;", text(), "&#39;")'/>
+            </xsl:call-template>
+        </xsl:copy>
+    </xsl:template>
+    <xsl:template match="liberator:k">
+        <xsl:copy>
+            <xsl:call-template name="linkify-tag">
+                <xsl:with-param name="contents" select="text()"/>
+            </xsl:call-template>
+        </xsl:copy>
+    </xsl:template>
+    <xsl:template match="liberator:k[@name]">
+        <xsl:copy>
+            <xsl:call-template name="linkify-tag">
+                <xsl:with-param name="contents" select="concat('&lt;', @name, '>', .)"/>
+            </xsl:call-template>
+        </xsl:copy>
+    </xsl:template>
+    <xsl:template match="liberator:ex">
+        <xsl:copy>
+            <xsl:call-template name="linkify-tag">
+                <xsl:with-param name="contents" select="."/>
+            </xsl:call-template>
+        </xsl:copy>
+    </xsl:template>
+
+    <xsl:template match="liberator:tag|@tag">
+        <xsl:call-template name="parse-tags">
+            <xsl:with-param name="text"><xsl:value-of select="."/></xsl:with-param>
+        </xsl:call-template>
+    </xsl:template>
+
+    <xsl:template match="@*|node()">
+        <xsl:copy>
+            <xsl:apply-templates select="@*|node()"/>
+        </xsl:copy>
+    </xsl:template>
+</xsl:stylesheet>
+
+<!-- vim:se ft=xslt sts=4 sw=4 et: -->
diff --git a/common/content/help.xul b/common/content/help.xul
deleted file mode 100644
--- a/common/content/help.xul
+++ /dev/null
@@ -1,7 +0,0 @@
-<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
-
-<window xmlns="http://www.mozilla.org/keymaster/gatekeeper/there.is.only.xul">
-    <script type="application/x-javascript;version=1.8"
-	src="chrome://liberator/content/help.js"/>
-</window>
-
diff --git a/common/content/liberator.js b/common/content/liberator.js
--- a/common/content/liberator.js
+++ b/common/content/liberator.js
@@ -310,8 +310,7 @@ const liberator = (function () //{{{
             function ()
             {
                 liberator.open("chrome://mozapps/content/extensions/extensions.xul",
-                    (options["newtab"] && options.get("newtab").has("all", "addons"))
-                        ? liberator.NEW_TAB: liberator.CURRENT_TAB);
+                    { from: "addons" });
             },
             { argCount: "0" });
 
@@ -487,9 +486,7 @@ const liberator = (function () //{{{
                 if (args.bang)
                     window.openDialog(extension.options, "_blank", "chrome");
                 else
-                    liberator.open(extension.options,
-                        options.get("newtab").has("all", "extoptions")
-                            ? liberator.NEW_TAB : liberator.CURRENT_TAB);
+                    liberator.open(extension.options, { from: "extoptions" });
             },
             {
                 argCount: "1",
@@ -577,8 +574,7 @@ const liberator = (function () //{{{
                 if (args.bang) // open JavaScript console
                 {
                     liberator.open("chrome://global/content/console.xul",
-                        (options["newtab"] && options.get("newtab").has("all", "javascript"))
-                            ? liberator.NEW_TAB : liberator.CURRENT_TAB);
+                        { from: "javascript" });
                 }
                 else
                 {
@@ -848,19 +844,9 @@ const liberator = (function () //{{{
             context.title = ["Help"];
             context.anchored = false;
             context.key = unchunked;
-            context.generate = function ()
-            {
-                let files = unchunked ? ["all.html"] : config.helpFiles;
-                let res = files.map(function (file) {
-                    let resp = util.httpGet("chrome://liberator/locale/" + file);
-                    if (!resp)
-                        return [];
-                    let doc = resp.responseXML;
-                    return Array.map(doc.getElementsByClassName("tag"),
-                            function (elem) [elem.textContent, file]);
-                });
-                return util.Array.flatten(res);
-            };
+            context.completions = services.get("liberator:").HELP_TAGS;
+            if (unchunked)
+                context.keys = { text: "text", description: function () "all" };
         };
 
         completion.menuItem = function menuItem(context) {
@@ -941,10 +927,10 @@ const liberator = (function () //{{{
         getExtension: function (name) this.extensions.filter(function (e) e.name == name)[0],
 
         // Global constants
-        CURRENT_TAB: 1,
-        NEW_TAB: 2,
-        NEW_BACKGROUND_TAB: 3,
-        NEW_WINDOW: 4,
+        CURRENT_TAB: [],
+        NEW_TAB: [],
+        NEW_BACKGROUND_TAB: [],
+        NEW_WINDOW: [],
 
         forceNewTab: false,
         forceNewWindow: false,
@@ -1373,23 +1359,22 @@ const liberator = (function () //{{{
         findHelp: function (topic, unchunked)
         {
             unchunked = !!unchunked;
-            let items = completion.runCompleter("help", topic, null, unchunked);
+            let items = completion._runCompleter("help", topic, null, unchunked).items;
             let partialMatch = null;
 
-            function format(item) item[1] + "#" + encodeURIComponent(item[0]);
+            function format(item) item.description + "#" + encodeURIComponent(item.text);
 
             for (let [i, item] in Iterator(items))
             {
-                if (item[0] == topic)
+                if (item.text == topic)
                     return format(item);
-                else if (!partialMatch && item[0].indexOf(topic) > -1)
+                else if (!partialMatch && topic)
                     partialMatch = item;
             }
 
             if (partialMatch)
                 return format(partialMatch);
-            else
-                return null;
+            return null;
         },
 
         /**
@@ -1402,15 +1387,11 @@ const liberator = (function () //{{{
          */
         help: function (topic, unchunked)
         {
-            let where = (options["newtab"] && options.get("newtab").has("all", "help"))
-                            ? liberator.NEW_TAB : liberator.CURRENT_TAB;
-
             if (!topic && !unchunked)
             {
                 let helpFile = options["helpfile"];
-
                 if (config.helpFiles.indexOf(helpFile) != -1)
-                    liberator.open("chrome://liberator/locale/" + helpFile, where);
+                    liberator.open("liberator://help/" + helpFile, { from: "help" });
                 else
                     liberator.echomsg("Sorry, help file " + helpFile.quote() + " not found");
                 return;
@@ -1420,8 +1401,8 @@ const liberator = (function () //{{{
             if (page == null)
                 return void liberator.echoerr("E149: Sorry, no help for " + topic);
 
-            liberator.open("chrome://liberator/locale/" + page, where);
-            if (where == this.CURRENT_TAB)
+            liberator.open("liberator://help/" + page, { from: "help" });
+            if (options.get("activate").has("all", "help"))
                 content.postMessage("fragmentChange", "*");
         },
 
@@ -1552,12 +1533,16 @@ const liberator = (function () //{{{
             }
 
             let flags = 0;
-            if (where instanceof Object)
+            if (!(where instanceof Array))
             {
                 for (let [opt, flag] in Iterator({ replace: "REPLACE_HISTORY", hide: "BYPASS_HISTORY" }))
                     if (where[opt])
                         flags |= Ci.nsIWebNavigation["LOAD_FLAGS_" + flag];
-                where = liberator.CURRENT_TAB;
+                if ("from" in where)
+                    where = (options["newtab"] && options.get("newtab").has("all", where.from))
+                            ? liberator.NEW_TAB : liberator.CURRENT_TAB;
+                else
+                    where = where.where || liberator.CURRENT_TAB;
             }
 
             if (urls.length == 0)
@@ -1733,6 +1718,8 @@ const liberator = (function () //{{{
             let start = Date.now();
             liberator.log("Initializing liberator object...", 0);
 
+            services.get("liberator:").helpFiles = config.helpFiles.map(function (f) f.replace(/\..*/, ""));
+
             config.features.push(getPlatformFeature());
 
             try
@@ -1959,29 +1946,6 @@ const liberator = (function () //{{{
 
 window.liberator = liberator;
 
-// FIXME: Ugly, etc.
-window.addEventListener("liberatorHelpLink", function (event) {
-        let elem = event.target;
-
-        if (/^(option|mapping|command|jump)$/.test(elem.className))
-            var tag = elem.textContent.replace(/\s.*/, "");
-        if (/^(mapping|command)$/.test(elem.className))
-            tag = tag.replace(/^\d+/, "");
-        if (elem.className == "command")
-            tag = tag.replace(/\[.*?\]/g, "").replace(/(\w+)!$/, "$1");
-
-        if (tag)
-        {
-            let page = liberator.findHelp(tag, /\/all.html($|#)/.test(elem.ownerDocument.location.href));
-            if (page)
-                elem.href = "chrome://liberator/locale/" + page;
-        }
-
-        // TODO: use HashChange event in Gecko 1.9.2
-        if (elem.href)
-            setTimeout(function () { content.postMessage("fragmentChange", "*"); }, 0);
-    }, true, true);
-
 // called when the chrome is fully loaded and before the main window is shown
 window.addEventListener("load",   liberator.startup,  false);
 window.addEventListener("unload", liberator.shutdown, false);
diff --git a/common/content/services.js b/common/content/services.js
--- a/common/content/services.js
+++ b/common/content/services.js
@@ -22,17 +22,19 @@ function Services()
 
     function create(classes, ifaces, meth)
     {
-        ifaces = Array.concat(ifaces);
         try
         {
-            let res = Cc[classes][meth || "getService"](ifaces.shift());
+            let res = Cc[classes][meth || "getService"]();
+            if (!ifaces)
+                return res.wrappedJSObject;
+            ifaces = Array.concat(ifaces);
             ifaces.forEach(function (iface) res.QueryInterface(iface));
             return res;
         }
         catch (e)
         {
             // liberator.log() is not defined at this time, so just dump any error
-            dump("Service creation failed for '" + classes + "': " + e);
+            dump("Service creation failed for '" + classes + "': " + e + "\n");
         }
     }
 
@@ -97,6 +99,7 @@ function Services()
     self.add("extensionManager",    "@mozilla.org/extensions/manager;1",                Ci.nsIExtensionManager);
     self.add("favicon",             "@mozilla.org/browser/favicon-service;1",           Ci.nsIFaviconService);
     self.add("json",                "@mozilla.org/dom/json;1",                          Ci.nsIJSON, "createInstance");
+    self.add("liberator:",          "@mozilla.org/network/protocol;1?name=liberator");
     self.add("livemark",            "@mozilla.org/browser/livemark-service;2",          Ci.nsILivemarkService);
     self.add("observer",            "@mozilla.org/observer-service;1",                  Ci.nsIObserverService);
     self.add("io",                  "@mozilla.org/network/io-service;1",                Ci.nsIIOService);
diff --git a/common/content/style.js b/common/content/style.js
--- a/common/content/style.js
+++ b/common/content/style.js
@@ -121,12 +121,73 @@ Highlights.prototype.CSS = <![CDATA[
     HintActive,,*   background-color: #88FF00; color: black;
     HintImage,,*    opacity: .5;
 
+    Help                                        font-size: 8pt; line-height: 1.4em; font-family: -moz-fixed;
+
+    HelpArg,liberator|a                         color: #6A97D4;
+    HelpArg::before                             content: "{";
+    HelpArg::after                              content: "}";
+
+    HelpBody                                    display: block; margin: 1em auto; max-width: 100ex;
+    HelpBorder,liberator|*                      border-color: silver; border-width: 0px; border-style: solid;
+    HelpCode,liberator|code                     display: block; white-space: pre; margin-left: 2em; font-family: courier, monospace;
+
+    HelpDefault,liberator|default               display: block; float: left; margin-right: 1ex; margin-bottom: 1em; white-space: pre;
+    HelpDefault::after                          content: ")"
+    HelpDefault::before                         content: "(default: ";
+
+    HelpDescription,liberator|description       display: block; clear: both;
+    HelpEm,liberator|em                         font-weight: bold;
+
+    HelpEx,liberator|ex                         display: inline-block; color: #527BBD; font-weight: bold;
+    HelpEx:hover                                text-decoration: underline; cursor: pointer;
+
+    HelpExample,liberator|example               display: block; margin: 1em 0;
+    HelpExample::before                         content: "Example: "; font-weight: bold;
+    HelpHead,liberator|h1                       display: block; margin: 1em 0; padding-bottom: .2ex; border-bottom-width: 1px; font-size: 2em; font-weight: bold; color: #527BBD; clear: both;
+    HelpItem,liberator|item                     display: block; margin: 1em 1em 1em 10em;
+
+    HelpKey,liberator|k                         color: #102663;
+
+    HelpLink,liberator|*>html|a                 text-decoration: none;
+    HelpLink:hover                              text-decoration: underline;
+
+    HelpList,liberator|ul                       display: block; list-style: inside disc;
+    HelpListItem,liberator|li                   display: list-item;
+
+    HelpNote,liberator|note                     display: block; margin: 1em 0em;
+    HelpNote::before                            content: "Note: "; color: red; font-weight: bold;
+
+    HelpOpt,liberator|o                         color: #106326;
+    HelpOpt:hover                               text-decoration: underline; cursor: pointer;
+
+    HelpParagraph,liberator|p                   display: block; margin: 1em 0em; clear: right;
+    HelpSpec,liberator|spec                     display: block; margin: 0 2em 0 -10em; float: left; clear: left; color: #527BBD;
+
+    HelpString,liberator|str                    display: inline-block; color: green; font-weight: normal;
+    HelpString::before                          content: '"';
+    HelpString::after                           content: '"';
+
+    HelpSubhead,liberator|h2                    display: block; margin: 1em 0; padding-bottom: .2ex; border-bottom-width: 1px; font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; color: #527BBD; clear: both;
+
+    HelpTab,liberator|dl                        display: table; width: 100%; margin: 1em 0; border-bottom-width: 1px; border-top-width: 1px; padding: 1ex 0; table-layout: fixed;
+    HelpTabCell,liberator|dl>*>*                display: table-cell; padding: .5ex 1ex;
+    HelpTabColumn,liberator|column              display: table-column;
+    HelpTabColumn1,liberator|column:nth-of-type(1) display: table-column; width: 25%; font-weight: bold;
+    HelpTabColumn2,liberator|column:nth-of-type(2) display: table-column; width: 75%;
+    HelpTabRow,liberator|dl>*                   display: table-row;
+
+    HelpTag,liberator|tag                       display: inline-block; color: #527BBD; margin-left: 1ex; font-size: 8pt; font-weight: bold;
+    HelpTags,liberator|tags                     display: block; float: right; clear: right;
+    HelpType,liberator|type                     display: block; float: left; margin-right: 1ex; margin-bottom: 1em;
+
+    HelpWarning,liberator|warning               display: block; margin: 1em 0em;
+    HelpWarning::before                         content: "Warning: "; color: red; font-weight: bold;
+
     Search,,* {
         font-size: inherit;
         padding: 0;
         color: black;
         background-color: yellow;
-        padding: 0;
     }
     ]]>.toString();
 
@@ -142,10 +203,18 @@ function Highlights(name, store)
     let highlight = {};
     let styles = storage.styles;
 
-    const Highlight = Struct("class", "selector", "filter", "default", "value");
-    Highlight.defaultValue("filter", function () ["chrome://liberator/content/buffer.xhtml"].concat(config.styleableChrome).join(","));
+    const Highlight = Struct("class", "selector", "filter", "default", "value", "base");
+    Highlight.defaultValue("filter", function () 
+        this.base ? this.base.filter :
+        ["chrome://liberator/*",
+         "liberator:*",
+         "file://*"].concat(config.styleableChrome).join(","));
     Highlight.defaultValue("selector", function () self.selector(this.class));
     Highlight.defaultValue("value", function () this.default);
+    Highlight.defaultValue("base", function () {
+        let base = this.class.match(/^(\w*)/)[0];
+        return base != this.class && base in highlight ? highlight[base] : null;
+    });
     Highlight.prototype.toString = function () "Highlight(" + this.class + ")\n\t" + [k + ": " + util.escapeString(v || "undefined") for ([k, v] in this)].join("\n\t");
 
     function keys() [k for ([k, v] in Iterator(highlight))].sort();
@@ -185,7 +254,7 @@ function Highlights(name, store)
         {
             css = style.selector + " { " + css + " }";
 
-            let error = styles.addSheet(true, style.selector, style.filter, css, true);
+            let error = styles.addSheet(true, "highlight:" + style.class, style.filter, css, true);
             if (error)
                 return error;
         }
@@ -201,7 +270,10 @@ function Highlights(name, store)
     this.selector = function (class)
     {
         let [, hl, rest] = class.match(/^(\w*)(.*)/);
-        return "[liberator|highlight~=" + hl + "]" + rest;
+        let class = "[liberator|highlight~=" + hl + "]"
+        if (highlight[hl] && highlight[hl].class != class)
+            class = highlight[hl].selector;
+        return class + rest;
     };
 
     /**
@@ -221,7 +293,7 @@ function Highlights(name, store)
      */
     this.loadCSS = function (css)
     {
-        css.replace(/\{((?:.|\n)*?)\}/g, function (_, _1) _1.replace(/\n\s*/g, " "))
+        css.replace(/^(\s*\S*\s+)\{((?:.|\n)*?)\}\s*$/gm, function (_, _1, _2) _1 + _2.replace(/\n\s*/g, " "))
            .split("\n").filter(function (s) /\S/.test(s))
            .forEach(function (style)
         {
diff --git a/muttator/components b/muttator/components
new file mode 120000
--- /dev/null
+++ b/muttator/components
@@ -0,0 +1,1 @@
+../common/components
\ No newline at end of file
diff --git a/muttator/components/chrome-data.js b/muttator/components/chrome-data.js
deleted file mode 100644
--- a/muttator/components/chrome-data.js
+++ /dev/null
@@ -1,89 +0,0 @@
-// Copyright (c) 2008-2009 Kris Maglione <maglione.k at Gmail>
-//
-// This work is licensed for reuse under an MIT license. Details are
-// given in the LICENSE.txt file included with this file.
-
-/* Adds support for data: URIs with chrome privileges
- * and fragment identifiers.
- *
- * "chrome-data:" <content-type> [; <flag>]* "," [<data>]
- *
- * By Kris Maglione, ideas from Ed Anuff's nsChromeExtensionHandler.
- */
-
-Components.utils.import("resource://gre/modules/XPCOMUtils.jsm");
-
-const NS_BINDING_ABORTED = 0x804b0002;
-const nsIProtocolHandler = Components.interfaces.nsIProtocolHandler;
-
-const ioService = Components.classes["@mozilla.org/network/io-service;1"]
-                            .getService(Components.interfaces.nsIIOService);
-
-let channel = Components.classesByID["{61ba33c0-3031-11d3-8cd0-0060b0fc14a3}"]
-                        .getService(Components.interfaces.nsIProtocolHandler)
-                        .newChannel(ioService.newURI("chrome://liberator/content/data", null, null))
-                        .QueryInterface(Components.interfaces.nsIRequest);
-const systemPrincipal = channel.owner;
-channel.cancel(NS_BINDING_ABORTED);
-delete channel;
-
-var instance;
-function ChromeData() {}
-ChromeData.prototype = {
-    contractID:       "@mozilla.org/network/protocol;1?name=chrome-data",
-    classID:          Components.ID("{c1b67a07-18f7-4e13-b361-2edcc35a5a0d}"),
-    classDescription: "Data URIs with chrome privileges",
-    QueryInterface:   XPCOMUtils.generateQI([Components.interfaces.nsIProtocolHandler]),
-    _xpcom_factory: {
-        createInstance: function (outer, iid)
-        {
-            if (!instance)
-            instance = new ChromeData();
-            if (outer != null)
-            throw Components.results.NS_ERROR_NO_AGGREGATION;
-            return instance.QueryInterface(iid);
-        }
-    },
-
-    scheme: "chrome-data",
-    defaultPort: -1,
-    allowPort: function (port, scheme) false,
-    protocolFlags: nsIProtocolHandler.URI_NORELATIVE
-         | nsIProtocolHandler.URI_NOAUTH
-         | nsIProtocolHandler.URI_IS_UI_RESOURCE,
-
-    newURI: function (spec, charset, baseURI)
-    {
-        var uri = Components.classes["@mozilla.org/network/standard-url;1"]
-                            .createInstance(Components.interfaces.nsIStandardURL)
-                            .QueryInterface(Components.interfaces.nsIURI);
-        uri.init(1, -1, spec, charset, null);
-        return uri;
-    },
-
-    newChannel: function (uri)
-    {
-        try
-        {
-            if (uri.scheme == this.scheme)
-            {
-                let newURI = ioService.newURI(uri.spec.replace(/^.*?:\/*(.*)(?:#.*)?/, "data:$1"), null, null);
-                let channel = ioService.newChannelFromURI(newURI);
-                channel.owner = systemPrincipal;
-                channel.originalURI = uri;
-                return channel;
-            }
-        }
-        catch (e) {}
-        throw Components.results.NS_ERROR_FAILURE;
-    }
-};
-
-var components = [ChromeData];
-
-function NSGetModule(compMgr, fileSpec)
-{
-    return XPCOMUtils.generateModule(components);
-}
-
-// vim: set fdm=marker sw=4 ts=4 et:
diff --git a/muttator/components/commandline-handler.js b/muttator/components/commandline-handler.js
deleted file mode 100644
--- a/muttator/components/commandline-handler.js
+++ /dev/null
@@ -1,45 +0,0 @@
-// Copyright (c) 2009 by Doug Kearns
-//
-// This work is licensed for reuse under an MIT license. Details are
-// given in the LICENSE.txt file included with this file.
-
-
-Components.utils.import("resource://gre/modules/XPCOMUtils.jsm");
-
-function CommandLineHandler()
-{
-    this.wrappedJSObject = this;
-}
-
-CommandLineHandler.prototype = {
-
-    classDescription: "Muttator Command-line Handler",
-
-    classID: Components.ID("{6e03e01a-3e2c-4a59-ac45-f1b4efb02ddb}"),
-
-    contractID: "@mozilla.org/commandlinehandler/general-startup;1?type=muttator",
-
-    _xpcom_categories: [{
-        category: "command-line-handler",
-        entry: "m-muttator"
-    }],
-
-    QueryInterface: XPCOMUtils.generateQI([Components.interfaces.nsICommandLineHandler]),
-
-    handle: function (commandLine)
-    {
-        // TODO: handle remote launches differently?
-        try
-        {
-            this.optionValue = commandLine.handleFlagWithParam("muttator", false);
-        }
-        catch (e)
-        {
-            //"muttator: option -muttator requires an argument"
-        }
-    }
-};
-
-function NSGetModule(compMgr, fileSpec) XPCOMUtils.generateModule([CommandLineHandler]);
-
-// vim: set fdm=marker sw=4 ts=4 et:
diff --git a/vimperator/components b/vimperator/components
new file mode 120000
--- /dev/null
+++ b/vimperator/components
@@ -0,0 +1,1 @@
+../common/components
\ No newline at end of file
diff --git a/vimperator/content/config.js b/vimperator/content/config.js
--- a/vimperator/content/config.js
+++ b/vimperator/content/config.js
@@ -169,7 +169,7 @@ const config = { //{{{
         img.src = "chrome://vimperator/content/logo.png";
         img.onload = function () {
             styles.addSheet(true, "logo", "chrome://liberator/locale/*",
-                ".vimperator-logo {" + <>
+                ".liberator-logo {" + <>
                      display:    inline-block;
                      background: url({img.src});
                      width:      {img.width}px;
diff --git a/vimperator/locale/en-US/help.js b/vimperator/locale/en-US/help.js
--- a/vimperator/locale/en-US/help.js
+++ b/vimperator/locale/en-US/help.js
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-// Copyright (c) 2009 by Doug Kearns <dougkearns at gmail.com>
+// Copyright (c) 2009 by Kris Maglione <kris at vimperator.org>
 //
 // This work is licensed for reuse under an MIT license. Details are
 // given in the LICENSE.txt file included with this file.
diff --git a/vimperator/locale/en-US/options.xml b/vimperator/locale/en-US/options.xml
new file mode 100644
--- /dev/null
+++ b/vimperator/locale/en-US/options.xml
@@ -0,0 +1,1352 @@
+<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
+<?xml-stylesheet type="text/xsl" href="chrome://liberator/content/help.xsl"?>
+
+<!DOCTYPE document SYSTEM "liberator.dtd" [
+    <!ENTITY appname "Vimperator">
+    <!ENTITY hostapp "Firefox">
+    <!ELEMENT default (#PCDATA)>
+]>
+
+<document
+    name="options"
+    title="&appname; Options"
+    xmlns="http://vimperator.org/namespaces/liberator"
+    xmlns:html="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
+<h1 tag="options">Options</h1>
+
+<p>
+    &appname; has a number of internal variables and switches which can be set to
+    achieve special effects. These options come in 5 forms:
+</p>
+
+<dl>
+    <dt>boolean</dt>       <dd>can only be on or off</dd>
+    <dt>number</dt>        <dd>has a numeric value</dd>
+    <dt>string</dt>        <dd>has a string value</dd>
+    <dt>charlist</dt>      <dd>like a string but with unique characters</dd>
+    <dt>stringlist</dt>    <dd>a comma-separated list of strings</dd>
+</dl>
+
+<h2 tag="set-option E764">Setting options</h2>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>:set :se</tags>
+    <spec>:se[t]</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>Show all options that differ from their default value.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <spec>:se[t] all</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>Show all options.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>E518 E519</tags>
+    <spec>:se[t] <a>option</a>?</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>Show value of <a>option</a>.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <spec>:se[t] <a>option</a> [...]</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Toggle option: set, switch it on.
+            Number option: show value.
+            String option: show value.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <spec>:se[t] no[a]<a>option</a>[a] [...]</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>Toggle option: Reset, switch it off.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <spec>:se[t] <a>option</a>! [...]</spec>
+    <spec>:se[t] inv<a>option</a> [...]</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>Toggle option: Invert value.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <spec>:se[t] inv[a]<a>option</a>[a]=<a>value</a> [...]</spec>
+    <spec>:se[t] <a>option</a>!=<a>value</a> [...]</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>For list options, toggle the specified values.</p>
+
+        <p>If the option is a list, the given values are toggled. Given</p>
+        <code><ex>:set opt=foo,bar</ex></code>
+        <p>then,</p>
+        <code><ex>:set opt!=foo,baz</ex></code>
+        <p>results in</p>
+        <code>opt=bar,baz</code>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>:set-default</tags>
+    <spec>:se[t] <a>option</a>&amp; [...]</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>Reset option to its default value.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <spec>:se[t] all&amp;</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>Set all options to their default value.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>:set-args E487 E521</tags>
+    <spec>:se[t] <a>option</a>=<a>value</a> [...]</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Set string or number option to <a>value</a>.
+            For numeric options the value must be given in decimal.
+            The old value can be inserted by typing <k name="Tab"/>.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>:set+=</tags>
+    <spec>:se[t] <a>option</a>+=<a>value</a> [...]</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Add the <a>value</a> to a number option, or append the <a>value</a>
+            to a string option.  When the option is a comma separated list, a
+            comma is added, unless the value was empty. If the option is a list
+            of flags, superfluous flags are removed.  When adding a flag that
+            was already present the option value doesn't change.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>:set^=</tags>
+    <spec>:se[t] <a>option</a>^=<a>value</a> [...]</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Multiply the <a>value</a> to a number option, or prepend the
+            <a>value</a> to a string option. When the option is a comma
+            separated list, a comma is added, unless the value was empty.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>:set-=</tags>
+    <spec>:se[t] <a>option</a>-=<a>value</a> [...]</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Subtract the <a>value</a> from a number option, or remove the
+            <a>value</a> from a string option if it is there. If the
+            <a>value</a> is not found in a string option, there is no error or
+            warning. When the option is a comma separated list, a comma is
+            deleted, unless the option becomes empty. When the option is a list
+            of flags, <a>value</a> must be exactly as they appear in the option.
+            Remove flags one by one to avoid problems.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>:setlocal :setl</tags>
+    <spec>:setl[ocal]</spec>
+    <spec>:setl[ocal] all</spec>
+    <spec>:setl[ocal] <a>option</a>?</spec>
+    <spec>:setl[ocal] <a>option</a></spec>
+    <spec>:setl[ocal] no[a]<a>option</a>[a]</spec>
+    <spec>:setl[ocal] inv[a]<a>option</a>[a]</spec>
+    <spec>:setl[ocal] <a>option</a>&amp;</spec>
+    <spec>:setl[ocal] all&amp;</spec>
+    <spec>:setl[ocal] <a>option</a>=<a>value</a></spec>
+    <spec>:setl[ocal] <a>option</a>+=<a>value</a></spec>
+    <spec>:setl[ocal] <a>option</a>^=<a>value</a></spec>
+    <spec>:setl[ocal] <a>option</a>-=<a>value</a></spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            The same as <ex>:set</ex> command, but operates on current tab options
+            only. See <ex>:set</ex> for details.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>:setglobal :setg</tags>
+    <spec>:setg[lobal]</spec>
+    <spec>:setg[lobal] all</spec>
+    <spec>:setg[lobal] <a>option</a>?</spec>
+    <spec>:setg[lobal] <a>option</a></spec>
+    <spec>:setg[lobal] no[a]<a>option</a>[a]</spec>
+    <spec>:setg[lobal] inv[a]<a>option</a>[a]</spec>
+    <spec>:setg[lobal] <a>option</a>&amp;</spec>
+    <spec>:setg[lobal] all&amp;</spec>
+    <spec>:setg[lobal] <a>option</a>=<a>value</a></spec>
+    <spec>:setg[lobal] <a>option</a>+=<a>value</a></spec>
+    <spec>:setg[lobal] <a>option</a>^=<a>value</a></spec>
+    <spec>:setg[lobal] <a>option</a>-=<a>value</a></spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            The same as <ex>:set</ex> command, but operates on global options only.
+            See <ex>:set</ex> for details.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<tags>expand-environment-var expand-env :set_env</tags>
+
+<p>
+    Environment variables are expanded for path options like <o>cdpath</o> and
+    <o>runtimepath</o>. The variable notation is _$VAR_ (terminated by a non-word
+    character) or _$\\<a>VAR</a>_. _%VAR%_ is also supported on Windows.
+</p>
+
+<h2 tag="firefox-options preferences">Setting &hostapp; options</h2>
+
+<p>&hostapp; options can be viewed and set with the following commands:</p>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>:prefs :preferences</tags>
+    <spec>:pref[erences]</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Show the &hostapp; preferences dialog. You can change the browser
+            preferences from this dialog. Be aware that not all &hostapp;
+            preferences work, because &appname; overrides some key bindings and
+            changes &hostapp;'s GUI.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>:prefs! :preferences!</tags>
+    <spec>:pref[erences]!</spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Opens about:config in the current tab where you can change advanced &hostapp;
+            preferences.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>:set! :set-!</tags>
+    <spec>:se[t]! <a>preference</a>=<a>value</a></spec>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Change any &hostapp; <a>preference</a> (those in the about:config
+            window). You can also reset/delete those preferences with
+            <ex>:set! <a>preference</a>&amp;</ex>.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<tags>overridden-preferences</tags>
+
+<p>
+    &appname; sets several &hostapp; preferences at startup. If this is undesirable,
+    they can be changed to a different value in your RC file using
+    <ex>:set! <a>preference</a>=<a>value</a></ex>
+</p>
+
+<p>The following preferences are set:</p>
+
+<ul>
+    <li><link href="http://kb.mozillazine.org/Dom.popup_allowed_events">dom.popup_allowed_events</link></li>
+    <li><link href="http://kb.mozillazine.org/Accessibility.typeaheadfind.autostart">accessibility.typeaheadfind.autostart</link></li>
+    <li><link href="http://kb.mozillazine.org/Accessibility.typeaheadfind">accessibility.typeaheadfind</link></li>
+</ul>
+
+<!-- TODO: others? -->
+
+<h2 tag="list-options">List of options</h2>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'act' 'activate'</tags>
+    <spec>'activate' 'act'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default>"homepage,quickmark,tabopen,paste"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Define when tabs are automatically activated. Available items:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <dt>homepage</dt>      <dd><k>gH</k> mapping</dd>
+            <dt>quickmark</dt>     <dd><k>go</k> and <k>gn</k> mappings</dd>
+            <dt>tabopen</dt>       <dd><ex>:tabopen[!]</ex> command</dd>
+            <dt>paste</dt>         <dd><k>P</k> and <k>gP</k> mappings</dd>
+        </dl>
+
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>$CDPATH</tags>
+    <tags>'cd' 'cdpath'</tags>
+    <spec>'cdpath' 'cd'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>equivalent to _$CDPATH_ or ",,"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            List of directories searched when executing the <ex>:cd</ex>
+            command. This is only used for relative paths if an absolute path is
+            specified then the option is ignored.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'cpt' 'complete'</tags>
+    <spec>'complete' 'cpt'</spec>
+    <type>charlist</type>
+    <default>slf</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Items which are completed at the <ex>:open</ex> prompts. Available items:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <dt>s</dt>     <dd>Search engines and keyword URLs</dd>
+            <dt>f</dt>     <dd>Local files</dd>
+            <dt>l</dt>     <dd>&hostapp; location bar entries (bookmarks and history sorted in an intelligent way)</dd>
+            <dt>b</dt>     <dd>Bookmarks</dd>
+            <dt>h</dt>     <dd>History</dd>
+            <dt>S</dt>     <dd>Search engine suggestions</dd>
+            <dt>t</dt>     <dd>Open tabs</dd>
+        </dl>
+
+        <p>
+            The order is important, so <ex>:set complete=bs</ex> would list bookmarks first,
+            and then any available quick searches.
+        </p>
+
+        <warning>
+            Using <em>b</em> and <em>h</em> can make completion very slow if there are many items.
+        </warning>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'ds' 'defsearch'</tags>
+    <spec>'defsearch' 'ds'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>"google"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Sets the default search engine. The default search engine name is
+            used in the <ex>:open [arg]</ex> command if [a][arg][a] neither
+            looks like a URL nor like a specified search engine/keyword.
+        </p>
+
+        <p>
+            This means that if you set <o>defsearch</o> to <str>youtube</str>,
+            then <ex>:open arnold schwarzenegger</ex> will be exactly the same as
+            <ex>:open youtube arnold schwarzenegger</ex>. Therefore, you need
+            to add a keyword or search engine <str>youtube</str> first.
+        </p>
+
+        <p>
+            If <o>defsearch</o> is empty, then &hostapp; will always attempt to
+            open the raw [a][arg][a].
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'editor'</tags>
+    <spec>'editor'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>"gvim -f"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Set the external text editor.
+            Sets the editor to run when <k name="C-i"/> is pressed in Insert and TextArea
+            modes.
+        </p>
+
+        <warning>
+            &appname; will not behave correctly if the editor forks its own
+            process, such as with gvim without the -f argument.
+        </warning>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'noex' 'noexrc'</tags>
+    <tags>'ex' 'exrc'</tags>
+    <spec>'exrc' 'ex'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>off</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Allow reading of an RC file in the current directory. This file is
+            sourced in addition to, and after, your default RC file.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'eht' 'extendedhinttags'</tags>
+    <spec>'extendedhinttags' 'eht'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>
+        //*[@onclick or @onmouseover or @onmousedown or @onmouseup or
+            @oncommand or @class='lk' or @role='link'] |
+        //input[not(@type='hidden')] | //xhtml:input[not(@type='hidden')] |
+        //a | //xhtml:a | //area | //xhtml:area | //iframe | //xhtml:iframe |
+        //textarea | //xhtml:textarea | //button | //xhtml:button |
+        //select | //xhtml:select</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>The XPath string of hintable elements activated by <k>;</k>.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'noeb' 'noerrorbells'</tags>
+    <tags>'eb' 'errorbells'</tags>
+    <spec>'errorbells' 'eb'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>off</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Ring the bell when an error message is displayed.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'ei' 'eventignore'</tags>
+    <spec>'eventignore'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default>""</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            A list of autocommand event names which should be ignored. If the list contains
+            the value <str>all</str> then all events are ignored.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'enc' 'encoding'</tags>
+    <spec>'encoding'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>"UTF-8"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Changes the character encoding of the current buffer. Valid only for
+            the current page.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'fenc' 'fileencoding'</tags>
+    <spec>'fileencoding'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>"UTF-8"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Changes the character encoding that &appname; uses to read and write files.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'nofc' 'nofocuscontent'</tags>
+    <tags>'fc' 'focuscontent'</tags>
+    <spec>'focuscontent' 'fc'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>off</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Focus the content after a page has loaded. This is useful if you
+            always want to stay in Normal mode when browsing between web sites.
+            When <str>on</str>, it blurs any textbox which often is
+            automatically focused on page load.  If you usually like
+            <o>focuscontent</o> but sometimes you'd like to focus the first
+            input field, you can use <k>gi</k> to jump to it.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'fh' 'followhints'</tags>
+    <spec>'followhints' 'fh'</spec>
+    <type>number</type>
+    <default>0</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Change the behaviour of <k name="Return"/> in Hints mode.</p>
+
+        <p>Possible values:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <dt>0</dt>      <dd>Follow the first hint as soon as typed text uniquely identifies it.</dd>
+            <dt>1</dt>      <dd>Follow the selected hint on <k name="Return"/>.</dd>
+            <dt>2</dt>      <dd>Follow the selected hint on <k name="Return"/> only if it's been <k name="Tab"/>-selected.</dd>
+        </dl>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'nofs' 'nofullscreen'</tags>
+    <tags>'fs' 'fullscreen'</tags>
+    <spec>'fullscreen' 'fs'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>off</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Show the current window fullscreen. Also hide certain GUI elements like the
+            statusline.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'go' 'guioptions'</tags>
+    <spec>'guioptions' 'go'</spec>
+    <type>charlist</type>
+    <default>""</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Show or hide certain GUI elements like the menu or toolbar.</p>
+
+        <p>Supported characters:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <dt>m</dt>      <dd>Menubar</dd>
+            <dt>T</dt>      <dd>Toolbar</dd>
+            <dt>B</dt>      <dd>Bookmark bar</dd>
+            <dt>n</dt>      <dd>Tab number</dd>
+            <dt>N</dt>      <dd>Tab number over image</dd>
+            <dt>b</dt>      <dd>Bottom scrollbar</dd>
+            <dt>r</dt>      <dd>Right scrollbar</dd>
+            <dt>l</dt>      <dd>Left scrollbar (<em>l</em> and <em>r</em> are mutually exclusive)</dd>
+        </dl>
+
+        <p>You can also hide the tab bar with <ex>:set showtabline=0</ex>.</p>
+
+        <note>Scrollbar changes require a page reload to take effect.</note>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'hf' 'helpfile'</tags>
+    <spec>'helpfile' 'hf'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>"intro.html"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Name of the main help file. This is the tail component of the chrome
+            URL as displayed in the status line when viewing the page.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'hin' 'hintinputs'</tags>
+    <spec>'hintinputs' 'hin'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default>"label,value"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            When generating hints for input elements that do not have an
+            explicit caption, this specifies the methods to try and generate a
+            textual hint. It tries the options in the order that you give, and
+            uses the first that it finds.
+        </p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <dt>value</dt>      <dd>The hint is the value displayed in a text input, or the selected option for a dropdown.</dd>
+            <dt>label</dt>      <dd>The value of an explicit label for the input, this will not match most manually added labels that are found on sites.</dd>
+            <dt>name </dt>      <dd>The name of the input will be used, although the name is not designed for user consumption, it is frequently very similar to the label.</dd>
+        </dl>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'hm' 'hintmatching'</tags>
+    <spec>'hintmatching' 'hm'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>contains</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Change the hint matching algorithm during Hints mode.</p>
+
+        <p>Possible values:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <dt>contains</dt>           <dd>The typed characters are split on whitespace, and these character groups have to match anywhere inside the text of the link.</dd>
+            <dt>wordstartswith</dt>     <dd>The typed characters are matched with the beginning of the first word (see <o>wordseparators</o>) in the link as long as possible. If no matches occur in the current word, then the matching is continued at the beginning of the next word. The words are worked through in the order they appear in the link. If the typed characters contain spaces, then the characters are split on whitespace. These character groups are then matched with the beginning of the words, beginning at the first one and continuing with the following words in the order they appear in the link.</dd>
+            <dt>firstletters</dt>       <dd>Behaves like wordstartswith, but non-matching words aren't overleaped.</dd>
+            <dt>custom</dt>             <dd>Delegate to a custom function: liberator.plugins.customHintMatcher(hintString)</dd>
+        </dl>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'ht' 'hinttags'</tags>
+    <spec>'hinttags' 'ht'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>
+        //*[@onclick or @onmouseover or @onmousedown or @onmouseup or @oncommand or @class='lk' or @role='link'] |
+        //input[not(@type='hidden')] | //a | //area | //iframe | //textarea | //button | //select |
+        //xhtml:input[not(@type='hidden')] | //xhtml:a | //xhtml:area | //xhtml:iframe |
+        //xhtml:textarea | //xhtml:button | //xhtml:select</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>XPath string of hintable elements activated by <k>f</k> and <k>F</k></p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'hto' 'hinttimeout'</tags>
+    <spec>'hinttimeout' 'hto'</spec>
+    <type>number</type>
+    <default>0</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Timeout before automatically following a non-unique numerical hint. Set to 0
+            (the default) to only follow numeric hints after pressing <k name="Return"/> or
+            when the hint is unique.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'hi' 'history'</tags>
+    <spec>'history' 'hi'</spec>
+    <type>number</type>
+    <default>500</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Number of Ex commands and search patterns to store in the command-line history.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'noprivate' 'private'</tags>
+    <spec>'private'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>off</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Set the <str>private browsing</str> option. In private browsing mode
+            history, cache files, cookies, form data, passwords, download list
+            entries, local and URL marks, command-line history and macros are
+            available only for the duration of the private browsing session and
+            deleted when returning to normal browsing mode.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'nohls' 'nohlsearch'</tags>
+    <tags>'hls' 'hlsearch'</tags>
+    <spec>'hlsearch' 'hls'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>off</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Highlight previous search pattern matches</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'noic' 'noignorecase'</tags>
+    <tags>'ic' 'ignorecase'</tags>
+    <spec>'ignorecase' 'ic'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>on</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Ignore case in search patterns.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'nois' 'noincsearch'</tags>
+    <tags>'is' 'incsearch'</tags>
+    <spec>'incsearch' 'is'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>on</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Show where the search pattern matches as it is typed.</p>
+
+        <note>Incremental searching currently only works in the forward direction.</note>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'noim' 'noinsertmode'</tags>
+    <tags>'im' 'insertmode'</tags>
+    <spec>'insertmode' 'im'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>on</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Use Insert mode as the default for text areas. This is useful if you
+            want to use the known &hostapp; interface for editing text areas.
+            Input fields default to this behaviour irrespective of this option's
+            setting.
+        </p>
+
+        <p>
+            Textarea mode can be entered with <k name="C-t"/> from Insert mode.
+            <!-- TODO: <C-t> is not documented yet. -->
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'ls' 'laststatus'</tags>
+    <spec>'laststatus' 'ls'</spec>
+    <type>number</type>
+    <default>2</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Determines when the last window will have a status line.</p>
+
+        <p>Possible values:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <dt>0</dt>      <dd>Never</dd>
+            <dt>1</dt>      <dd>Only if there are multiple windows</dd>
+            <dt>2</dt>      <dd>Always</dd>
+        </dl>
+
+        <note>laststatus=1 not implemented yet.</note>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'nolks' 'nolinksearch'</tags>
+    <tags>'lks' 'linksearch'</tags>
+    <spec>'linksearch' 'lks'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>off</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Limit the search to hyperlink text.  This includes (X)HTML elements
+            with an <str>href</str> atrribute and XLink <str>simple</str> links.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'nolpl' 'lpl'</tags>
+    <tags>'noloadplugins' 'loadplugins'</tags>
+    <spec>'loadplugins' 'lpl'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>on</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Load plugin scripts when starting up. When on, yet unloaded plugins
+            are automatically loaded after the vimperatorrc file has been
+            sourced. To load plugins earlier, use the <ex>:loadplugins</ex>
+            command within the vimperatorrc.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'maxitems'</tags>
+    <spec>'maxitems'</spec>
+    <type>number</type>
+    <default>20</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Maximum number of items to display at once in a listing.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'msgs' 'messages'</tags>
+    <spec>'messages' 'msgs'</spec>
+    <type>number</type>
+    <default>100</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Number of messages to store in the message history.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'nomore' 'more'</tags>
+    <spec>'more'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>on</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Pause the message list window when more than one screen of listings is displayed.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'nextpattern'</tags>
+    <spec>'nextpattern'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default>\bnext,^>$,^(>>|?)$,^(>|?),(>|?)$,\bmore\b</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Patterns to use when guessing the <o>next</o> page in a document
+            sequence when the user hits <k>]]</k>. Each pattern, in order, is
+            matched against all links in the page with the first match being
+            used. The patterns are case insensitive regular expressions and the
+            link elements are those defined by <o>hinttags</o>.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'newtab'</tags>
+    <spec>'newtab'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default>""</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Define which Ex commands output the result in a new tab
+            automatically. You can also use <ex>:tab command</ex> to manually
+            output a command in a new tab.
+        </p>
+
+        <p>The possible values:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <dt>all</dt>            <dd>All commands</dd>
+            <dt>addons</dt>         <dd><ex>:addo[ns]</ex> command</dd>
+            <dt>downloads</dt>      <dd><ex>:downl[oads]</ex> command</dd>
+            <dt>extoptions</dt>     <dd><ex>:exto[ptions]</ex> command</dd>
+            <dt>help</dt>           <dd><ex>:h[elp]</ex> command</dd>
+            <dt>javascript</dt>     <dd><ex>:javascript!</ex> or <ex>:js!</ex> command</dd>
+            <dt>prefs</dt>          <dd><ex>:pref[erences]!</ex> or <ex>:prefs!</ex> command</dd>
+        </dl>
+
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'noonline' 'online'</tags>
+    <spec>'online'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>on</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Show and set the 'work offline' behavior.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'pageinfo' 'pa'</tags>
+    <spec>'pageinfo' 'pa'</spec>
+
+    <type>charlist</type>
+    <default>gfm</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Desired info in the <ex>:pageinfo</ex> output.</p>
+
+        <p>Available items:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <dt>g</dt>      <dd>General info</dd>
+            <dt>f</dt>      <dd>Feeds</dd>
+            <dt>m</dt>      <dd>Meta tags</dd>
+        </dl>
+
+        <p>
+            The order of the options defines the order in which they appear in
+            the result.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'pps' 'popups'</tags>
+    <spec>'popups' 'pps'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default>tab</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Define where to show requested popup windows.  Does not apply to
+            windows which are opened by middle clicking a link, they always open
+            in a new tab.
+        </p>
+
+        <p>Possible values:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <dt>tab</dt>            <dd>Open popups in a new tab</dd>
+            <dt>window</dt>         <dd>Open popups in a new window</dd>
+            <dt>resized</dt>        <dd>Open resized popups in a new window</dd>
+        </dl>
+
+        <p>
+            If neither <em>tab</em> nor <em>window</em> is provided, all popups open in the current tab.
+            <em>tab</em> and <em>window</em> are mutually exclusive, and the last one listed is
+            effective.
+        </p>
+
+        <note>This option does not change the popup blocker of &hostapp; in any way.</note>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'previouspattern'</tags>
+    <spec>'previouspattern'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default><![CDATA[\bprev|previous\b,^<$,^(<<|?)$,^(<|?),(<|?)$]]></default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Patterns to use when guessing the <o>previous</o> page in a document
+            sequence when the user hits <ex>[[</ex>. Each pattern, in order, is
+            matched against all links in the page with the first match being
+            used. The patterns are case insensitive regular expressions and the
+            link elements are those defined by <o>hinttags</o>.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>$VIMPERATOR_RUNTIME</tags>
+    <tags>'rtp' 'runtimepath'</tags>
+    <spec>'runtimepath' 'rtp'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default>_$VIMPERATOR_RUNTIME_ or $$Unix, Mac: "~/.vimperator", Windows: "~/vimperator"$$</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>List of directories searched for runtime files:</p>
+
+        <ul>
+            <li>colors/</li>
+            <li>macros/</li>
+            <li>plugin/</li>
+        </ul>
+
+        <p>Example:</p>
+
+        <code><ex>:set runtimepath=$$~/myvimperator,~/.vimperator$$</ex></code>
+
+        <p>
+            This will search for plugins in both
+            <str>~/myvimperator/plugin</str> and
+            <str>~/.vimperator/plugin</str>
+        </p>
+
+        <p>
+            On startup, if the environment variable _$VIMPERATOR_RUNTIME_ does not
+            exist, &appname; will set it to match this value.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'si' 'sanitizeitems'</tags>
+    <spec>'sanitizeitems' 'si'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default>"cache,commandline,cookies,formdata,history,marks,sessions"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>The default list of private items to sanitize.</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <dt>cache       </dt>       <dd>Cache</dd>
+            <dt>commandline </dt>       <dd>Command-line history</dd>
+            <dt>cookies     </dt>       <dd>Cookies</dd>
+            <dt>downloads   </dt>       <dd>Download history</dd>
+            <dt>formdata    </dt>       <dd>Saved form and search history</dd>
+            <dt>history     </dt>       <dd>Browsing history</dd>
+            <dt>marks       </dt>       <dd>Local and URL marks</dd>
+            <dt>macros      </dt>       <dd>Saved macros</dd>
+            <dt>offlineapps </dt>       <dd>Offline website data</dd>
+            <dt>passwords   </dt>       <dd>Saved passwords</dd>
+            <dt>sessions    </dt>       <dd>Authenticated sessions</dd>
+            <dt>sitesettings</dt>       <dd>Site preferences</dd>
+        </dl>
+
+        <p>
+            When history items are sanitized <ex>:open</ex>,
+            <ex>:tabopen</ex> and <ex>:winopen</ex> command-line
+            history entries are also removed.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'sts' 'sanitizetimespan'</tags>
+    <spec>'sanitizetimespan' 'sts'</spec>
+    <type>number</type>
+    <default>1</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            The default sanitizer time span. Only items created within this timespan are
+            deleted.
+        </p>
+
+        <note>This only applies to <em>cookies</em>, <em>history</em>, <em>formdata</em>, and <em>downloads</em>.</note>
+
+        <dl>
+            <dt>0</dt>      <dd>Everything</dd>
+            <dt>1</dt>      <dd>Last hour</dd>
+            <dt>2</dt>      <dd>Last two hours</dd>
+            <dt>3</dt>      <dd>Last four hours</dd>
+            <dt>4</dt>      <dd>Today</dd>
+        </dl>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'scr' 'scroll'</tags>
+    <spec>'scroll' 'scr'</spec>
+    <type>number</type>
+    <default>0</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Number of lines to scroll with <k name="C-u"/> and <k name="C-d"/>
+            commands.  The number of lines scrolled defaults to half the window
+            size.  When a [count] is specified to the <k name="C-u"/> or
+            <k name="C-d"/> commands this is used to set the value of
+            <o>scroll</o> and also used for the current command. The value can
+            be reset to half the window height with <ex>:set scroll=0</ex>.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'shell' 'sh'</tags>
+    <spec>'shell' 'sh'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>_$SHELL_ or "sh", Win32: "cmd.exe"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Shell to use for executing <ex>:!</ex> and <ex>:run</ex> commands.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'shellcmdflag' 'shcf'</tags>
+    <spec>'shellcmdflag' 'shcf'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>"-c", Win32: "/c"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Flag passed to shell when executing <ex>:!</ex> and <ex>:run</ex> commands.</p>
+
+        <example><str>bash -c gvim</str></example>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'nosmd' 'noshowmode'</tags>
+    <tags>'smd' 'showmode'</tags>
+    <spec>'showmode' 'smd'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>on</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Show the current mode in the command line.</p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'ssli' 'showstatuslinks'</tags>
+    <spec>'showstatuslinks' 'ssli'</spec>
+    <type>number</type>
+    <default>1</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Show the destination of the link under the cursor in the status bar.
+            Also links which are focused by keyboard commands like
+            <k name="Tab"/> are shown.
+        </p>
+
+        <p>Possible values:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <dt>0</dt>      <dd>Don't show link destination</dd>
+            <dt>1</dt>      <dd>Show the link in the status line</dd>
+            <dt>2</dt>      <dd>Show the link in the command line</dd>
+        </dl>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'stal' 'showtabline'</tags>
+    <spec>'showtabline' 'stal'</spec>
+    <type>number</type>
+    <default>2</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Control when to show the tab bar of opened web pages.</p>
+
+        <p>Possible values:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <dt>0</dt>      <dd>Never show tab bar</dd>
+            <dt>1</dt>      <dd>Show tab bar only if more than one tab is open</dd>
+            <dt>2</dt>      <dd>Always show tab bar</dd>
+        </dl>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'noscs' 'nosmartcase'</tags>
+    <tags>'scs' 'smartcase'</tags>
+    <spec>'smartcase' 'scs'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>on</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Override the <o>ignorecase</o> option if the pattern contains
+            uppercase characters.  This is only used if the <o>ignorecase</o>
+            option is set.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'suggestengines'</tags>
+    <spec>'suggestengines'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default>"google"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Set the search engines which can be used for completion suggestions.
+            Add <str>S</str> to the <o>complete</o> option if you want to use
+            this feature.
+        </p>
+
+        <warning>
+            This feature could make tab-completion slower because it needs to
+            wait for changes, so use it only if you have a fast internet
+            connection.
+        </warning>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'titlestring'</tags>
+    <spec>'titlestring'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>"&appname;"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Change the title of the browser window.  &appname; changes the
+            browser title from <str>Title of web page - Mozilla &hostapp;</str>
+            to <str>Title of web page - &appname;</str>.  If you don't like
+            that, you can restore it with: 
+        </p>
+        <code><ex>:set titlestring=<str>Mozilla &hostapp;</str></ex></code>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'noum' 'nousermode'</tags>
+    <tags>'um' 'usermode'</tags>
+    <spec>'usermode' 'um'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>off</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Show current website with a minimal style sheet to make it easily accessible.</p>
+
+        <note>This is a local option for now, a global value may be supported in the future.</note>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'urlseparator'</tags>
+    <spec>'urlseparator'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>",\s"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Set the separator regex used to separate multiple URL args. Multiple
+            arguments can be specified for <ex>:open</ex>, and similar commands,
+            using this regex as the separator. Using whitespace alone is not
+            generally useful since it is often contained in a single argument.
+            E.g., <ex>:open linus torvalds</ex> should perform a single search
+            for the key words <str>linus</str> and <str>torvalds</str>. If this
+            is set to the empty string then these arguments will never be split.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'verbose', 'vbs'</tags>
+    <spec>'verbose' 'vbs'</spec>
+    <type>number</type>
+    <default>1</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Define which info messages are displayed.  When bigger than zero,
+            &appname; will give messages about what it is doing.  These can be
+            viewed at any time with the <ex>:messages</ex> command. The highest
+            value is 15, being the most verbose mode.
+        </p>
+        <!-- TODO: list levels and associated messages -->
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'novb' 'novisualbell'</tags>
+    <tags>'vb' 'visualbell'</tags>
+    <spec>'visualbell' 'vb'</spec>
+    <type>boolean</type>
+    <default>off</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Use visual bell instead of beeping on errors. The visual bell style is
+            controlled by <ex>:hi Bell</ex>.
+        </p>
+
+        <p>
+            To disable both the audible and visual bells use <ex>:set visualbell</ex>
+            and <ex>:hi Bell display: none;</ex>
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'wildcase' 'wic'</tags>
+    <spec>'wildcase' 'wic'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default>"smart"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>Defines how completions are matched with regard to character case. Possible values:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <dt><str>smart</str></dt>  <dd>Case is significant when capital letters are typed</dd>
+            <dt><str>match</str></dt>  <dd>Case is always significant</dd>
+            <dt><str>ignore</str></dt> <dd>Case is never significant</dd>
+        </dl>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'wildignore' 'wig'</tags>
+    <spec>'wildignore' 'wig'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default>""</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            List of file patterns to ignore when completing files. E.g., to ignore object
+            files and Vim swap files 
+            <ex>:set wildignore=<str>.<em>\.o,\..</em>\.s[a-z]\\<a>2</a></str></ex>
+        </p>
+
+        <note>Unlike Vim each pattern is a regex rather than a glob.</note>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'wim' 'wildmode'</tags>
+    <spec>'wildmode' 'wim'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default>"list:full"</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            Defines how command-line completion works.  It is a comma-separated
+            list of parts, where each part specifies what to do for each
+            consecutive use of the completion key.  The first part specifies the
+            behavior for the first use of the completion key, the second part
+            for the second use, etc.
+        </p>
+
+        <p>These are the possible values for each part:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <dt><str></str></dt>             <dd>Complete only the first match.</dd>
+            <dt><str>full</str></dt>         <dd>Complete the next full match. After the last, the original string is used.</dd>
+            <dt><str>longest</str></dt>      <dd>Complete till the longest common string.</dd>
+            <dt><str>list</str></dt>         <dd>When more than one match, list all matches.</dd>
+            <dt><str>list:full</str></dt>    <dd>When more than one match, list all matches and complete the first match.</dd>
+            <dt><str>list:longest</str></dt>
+            <dd>
+                When more than one match, list all matches and
+                complete till the longest common string. When there
+                is only a single match, it is fully completed
+                regardless of the case.
+            </dd>
+        </dl>
+
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'wop' 'wildoptions'</tags>
+    <spec>'wildoptions' 'wop'</spec>
+    <type>stringlist</type>
+    <default>""</default>
+    <description>
+        <p>A list of words that change how command-line completion is done.</p>
+
+        <p>Possible words:</p>
+
+        <dl>
+            <dt>auto</dt>       <dd>Automatically show completions while you are typing.</dd>
+            <dt>sort</dt>       <dd>Always sort the completion list, overriding the <o>complete</o> option.</dd>
+        </dl>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+
+<item>
+    <tags>'wsp' 'wordseparators'</tags>
+    <spec>'wordseparators' 'wsp'</spec>
+    <type>string</type>
+    <default><![CDATA[[\.,!\?:;/\\"\^\$%&?\(\)\[\]\\<a>\\</a><>#\\*\+\\|=~ _\\-]]]></default>
+    <description>
+        <p>
+            A regex which defines the word separators which are used for the
+            <o>hintmatching</o> types <str>wordstartswith</str> and
+            "firstletters" to split the words in the text of a link.
+        </p>
+    </description>
+</item>
+
+</document>
+<!-- vim:se sts=4 sw=4 et: -->
diff --git a/xulmus/components b/xulmus/components
new file mode 120000
--- /dev/null
+++ b/xulmus/components
@@ -0,0 +1,1 @@
+../common/components
\ No newline at end of file
diff --git a/xulmus/components/chrome-data.js b/xulmus/components/chrome-data.js
deleted file mode 100644
--- a/xulmus/components/chrome-data.js
+++ /dev/null
@@ -1,110 +0,0 @@
-// Copyright (c) 2008-2009 by Kris Maglione <maglione.k at Gmail>
-//
-// This work is licensed for reuse under an MIT license. Details are
-// given in the LICENSE.txt file included with this file.
-
-
-/* Adds support for data: URIs with chrome privileges
- * and fragment identifiers.
- *
- * "chrome-data:" <content-type> [; <flag>]* "," [<data>]
- *
- * By Kris Maglione, ideas from Ed Anuff's nsChromeExtensionHandler.
- *
- * ?2008-2009 Kris Maglione <maglione.k at Gmail>
- *
- * Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a
- * copy of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"),
- * to deal in the Software without restriction, including without limitation
- * the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense,
- * and/or sell copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the
- * Software is furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions:
- *
- * The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in
- * all copies or substantial portions of the Software.
- *
- * THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR
- * IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY,
- * FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT.  IN NO EVENT SHALL
- * THE AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER
- * LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING
- * FROM, OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER
- * DEALINGS IN THE SOFTWARE.
- */
-
-Components.utils.import("resource://gre/modules/XPCOMUtils.jsm");
-
-const NS_BINDING_ABORTED = 0x804b0002;
-const nsIProtocolHandler = Components.interfaces.nsIProtocolHandler;
-
-const ioService = Components.classes["@mozilla.org/network/io-service;1"]
-                            .getService(Components.interfaces.nsIIOService);
-
-let channel = Components.classesByID["{61ba33c0-3031-11d3-8cd0-0060b0fc14a3}"]
-                        .getService(Components.interfaces.nsIProtocolHandler)
-                        .newChannel(ioService.newURI("chrome://liberator/content/data", null, null))
-                        .QueryInterface(Components.interfaces.nsIRequest);
-const systemPrincipal = channel.owner;
-channel.cancel(NS_BINDING_ABORTED);
-delete channel;
-
-var instance;
-function ChromeData() {}
-ChromeData.prototype = {
-    contractID:       "@mozilla.org/network/protocol;1?name=chrome-data",
-    classID:          Components.ID("{c1b67a07-18f7-4e13-b361-2edcc35a5a0d}"),
-    classDescription: "Data URIs with chrome privileges",
-    QueryInterface:   XPCOMUtils.generateQI([Components.interfaces.nsIProtocolHandler]),
-    _xpcom_factory: {
-        createInstance: function (outer, iid)
-        {
-            if (!instance)
-            instance = new ChromeData();
-            if (outer != null)
-            throw Components.results.NS_ERROR_NO_AGGREGATION;
-            return instance.QueryInterface(iid);
-        }
-    },
-
-    scheme: "chrome-data",
-    defaultPort: -1,
-    allowPort: function (port, scheme) false,
-    protocolFlags: nsIProtocolHandler.URI_NORELATIVE
-         | nsIProtocolHandler.URI_NOAUTH
-         | nsIProtocolHandler.URI_IS_UI_RESOURCE,
-
-    newURI: function (spec, charset, baseURI)
-    {
-        var uri = Components.classes["@mozilla.org/network/standard-url;1"]
-                            .createInstance(Components.interfaces.nsIStandardURL)
-                            .QueryInterface(Components.interfaces.nsIURI);
-        uri.init(1, -1, spec, charset, null);
-        return uri;
-    },
-
-    newChannel: function (uri)
-    {
-        try
-        {
-            if (uri.scheme == this.scheme)
-            {
-                let newURI = ioService.newURI(uri.spec.replace(/^.*?:\/*(.*)(?:#.*)?/, "data:$1"), null, null);
-                let channel = ioService.newChannelFromURI(newURI);
-                channel.owner = systemPrincipal;
-                channel.originalURI = uri;
-                return channel;
-            }
-        }
-        catch (e) {}
-        throw Components.results.NS_ERROR_FAILURE;
-    }
-};
-
-var components = [ChromeData];
-
-function NSGetModule(compMgr, fileSpec)
-{
-    return XPCOMUtils.generateModule(components);
-}
-
-// vim: set fdm=marker sw=4 ts=4 et:
diff --git a/xulmus/components/commandline-handler.js b/xulmus/components/commandline-handler.js
deleted file mode 100644
--- a/xulmus/components/commandline-handler.js
+++ /dev/null
@@ -1,45 +0,0 @@
-// Copyright (c) 2009 by Doug Kearns <dougkearns at gmail.com>
-//
-// This work is licensed for reuse under an MIT license. Details are
-// given in the LICENSE.txt file included with this file.
-
-
-Components.utils.import("resource://gre/modules/XPCOMUtils.jsm");
-
-function CommandLineHandler()
-{
-    this.wrappedJSObject = this;
-}
-
-CommandLineHandler.prototype = {
-
-    classDescription: "Xulmus Command-line Handler",
-
-    classID: Components.ID("{155807a6-02da-4812-981c-e910aa7eba42}"),
-
-    contractID: "@mozilla.org/commandlinehandler/general-startup;1?type=xulmus",
-
-    _xpcom_categories: [{
-        category: "command-line-handler",
-        entry: "m-xulmus"
-    }],
-
-    QueryInterface: XPCOMUtils.generateQI([Components.interfaces.nsICommandLineHandler]),
-
-    handle: function (commandLine)
-    {
-        // TODO: handle remote launches differently?
-        try
-        {
-            this.optionValue = commandLine.handleFlagWithParam("xulmus", false);
-        }
-        catch (e)
-        {
-            //"xulmus: option -xulmus requires an argument"
-        }
-    }
-};
-
-function NSGetModule(compMgr, fileSpec) XPCOMUtils.generateModule([CommandLineHandler]);
-
-// vim: set fdm=marker sw=4 ts=4 et:

From dougkearns at gmail.com  Sat Oct 24 02:33:34 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 20:33:34 +1100
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH 0 of 1] Towards replacing asciidoc.
In-Reply-To: <20091024051041.GF23287@jg>
References: <patchbomb.1256174233@localhost.localdomain>
	<20091024051041.GF23287@jg>
Message-ID: <644fc65e0910240233h2e763237r757f8c1ed2d937db@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 4:10 PM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
> New patch attached. Differences:
>
> ?* Proper linkification of references.
> ?* XSL cleanup.
> ?* Add liberator://help/page
> ?* Add liberator://help-tag/tag
> ?* Moved */components/ to common/, with symlinks in application
> directories.
>
> Can we please decide on this soon so I know whether to keep working on it?

+1

Thanks,
Doug

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sat Oct 24 07:26:38 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 16:26:38 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH 0 of 1] Towards replacing asciidoc.
In-Reply-To: <20091024051247.GG23287@jg>
References: <patchbomb.1256174233@localhost.localdomain>
	<20091024051247.GG23287@jg>
Message-ID: <4AE30E9E.8070401@vimperator.org>

On 10/24/2009 07:12 AM, Kris Maglione wrote:

> Sorry, ignore the patch in the last message.
> 
> Also, once you've applied it, just type :h options


The patch fails to apply for me, even with a completely reverted version:

> hg patch -f replace-asciidoc.patch
applying replace-asciidoc.patch
abort: could not symlink to '': No such file or directory: /home/maxauthority/projects/vimperator-labs/muttator/components

It still seems to apply most things though, but when I try to start Firefox I get:

Service creation failed for '@mozilla.org/network/protocol;1?name=liberator': TypeError: Cc[classes] is undefined

Anyway since Doug seems to like it as well, I think we can settle on the fact, that you can merge that to the main tree when you think it's ready.
Just make sure, it doesn't break muttator's or xulmus' help system. If you don't want to install/test that yourself, please send me a working patch and I'll verify.


I am no XSLT guru, so would it actually be possible to name and import an <item>?
Like documenting <item id="wildoptions">...</item> just in one place, and to import that in the muttator docs with <item ref="vimperator:wildoptions">?

Then we really would have a foundation to just document things once instead of for all applications and I might even start documenting muttator properly :)

--
Martin

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sat Oct 24 07:32:08 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 10:32:08 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH 0 of 1] Towards replacing asciidoc.
In-Reply-To: <4AE30E9E.8070401@vimperator.org>
References: <patchbomb.1256174233@localhost.localdomain>
	<20091024051247.GG23287@jg> <4AE30E9E.8070401@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091024143208.GI23287@jg>

On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 04:26:38PM +0200, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>On 10/24/2009 07:12 AM, Kris Maglione wrote:
>
>> Sorry, ignore the patch in the last message.
>>
>> Also, once you've applied it, just type :h options
>
>
>The patch fails to apply for me, even with a completely reverted version:

You'll just have to wait until I push it. mq and 'hg import' 
don't handle those kinds of changes very well.

>Service creation failed for '@mozilla.org/network/protocol;1?name=liberator': TypeError: Cc[classes] is undefined

That's because the patch didn't apply.

>Anyway since Doug seems to like it as well, I think we can 
>settle on the fact, that you can merge that to the main tree  
>when you think it's ready.  Just make sure, it doesn't break 
>muttator's or xulmus' help system. If you don't want to 
>install/test that yourself, please send me a working patch and 
>I'll verify.

The whole point is to get rid of the muttator and xulmus help 
systems.

>I am no XSLT guru, so would it actually be possible to name and
>import an <item>? 
>Like documenting <item id="wildoptions">...</item> just in one
>place, and to import that in the muttator docs with <item 
>ref="vimperator:wildoptions">?

That was my plan. Something like that, anyway, only the other 
way around, and with overlays rather than XSLT. Haven't figured 
out the details yet.

-- 
Kris Maglione

Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler.
	--Albert Einstein


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sat Oct 24 09:51:54 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 12:51:54 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH 0 of 1] Towards replacing asciidoc.
In-Reply-To: <4AE30E9E.8070401@vimperator.org>
References: <patchbomb.1256174233@localhost.localdomain>
	<20091024051247.GG23287@jg> <4AE30E9E.8070401@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091024165154.GJ23287@jg>

On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 04:26:38PM +0200, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>The patch fails to apply for me, even with a completely 
>reverted version:

Ok, you should be able to checkout the xslt branch from the 
repo:

     hg update -C xslt

-- 
Kris Maglione

Beauty is more important in computing than anywhere else in technology
because software is so complicated.  Beauty is the ultimate defence
against complexity.
	--David Gelernter


From dougkearns at gmail.com  Sat Oct 24 20:40:25 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 14:40:25 +1100
Subject: [Vimperator] titlestring funniness?
In-Reply-To: <4AE1BCAF.5090804@tedpavlic.com>
References: <4AE1BCAF.5090804@tedpavlic.com>
Message-ID: <644fc65e0910242040v34125fd3i40843586fc714918@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 1:24 AM, Ted Pavlic <ted at tedpavlic.com> wrote:
> I have a feeling that this is a known issue, but I think I'm one of the few
> people who use Vimperator on non-Linux platforms, and so there's a chance
> that others haven't noticed because of how Linux renders its windows.

This is a Mac-only bug, the title string is handled differently there
apparently.  Can I be a pain and get you to paste this into a bug
report?

Thanks,
Doug

From ted at tedpavlic.com  Sun Oct 25 06:30:07 2009
From: ted at tedpavlic.com (Ted Pavlic)
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 09:30:07 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] titlestring funniness?
In-Reply-To: <644fc65e0910242040v34125fd3i40843586fc714918@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AE1BCAF.5090804@tedpavlic.com>
	<644fc65e0910242040v34125fd3i40843586fc714918@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AE452DF.8000706@tedpavlic.com>

> On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 1:24 AM, Ted Pavlic<ted at tedpavlic.com>  wrote:
>> I have a feeling that this is a known issue, but I think I'm one of the few
>> people who use Vimperator on non-Linux platforms, and so there's a chance
>> that others haven't noticed because of how Linux renders its windows.
>
> This is a Mac-only bug, the title string is handled differently there
> apparently.  Can I be a pain and get you to paste this into a bug
> report?

Sure, I can do that.

However, it's not entirely a Mac-only bug. On Windows...

1. The initial "about:blank" shows "Vimperator" in the title.

2. :opening google.com replaces the title with whatever Google wants it 
to be.

3. :deleting the Google page returns to "about:blank" but with "Mozilla 
Firefox" in the title

The #2 and #3 are common to both Mac and Windows, and #3 seems like it 
should say "Vimperator" and not "Mozilla Firefox."

(on the mac, #1 says "Mozilla FirefoxVimperator", which does seem to be 
a Mac-only bug)

--Ted


-- 
Ted Pavlic <ted at tedpavlic.com>

   Please visit my 2009 d'Feet ALS walk page:
         http://web.alsa.org/goto/tedp
   My family appreciates your support in the fight to defeat ALS.

From dougkearns at gmail.com  Sun Oct 25 07:23:09 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 01:23:09 +1100
Subject: [Vimperator] titlestring funniness?
In-Reply-To: <4AE452DF.8000706@tedpavlic.com>
References: <4AE1BCAF.5090804@tedpavlic.com>
	<644fc65e0910242040v34125fd3i40843586fc714918@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4AE452DF.8000706@tedpavlic.com>
Message-ID: <644fc65e0910250723r581672bei402d92faaf4620f6@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 12:30 AM, Ted Pavlic <ted at tedpavlic.com> wrote:
<snip>
> However, it's not entirely a Mac-only bug. On Windows...

I'm on Windows.

> 1. The initial "about:blank" shows "Vimperator" in the title.

Check.

> 2. :opening google.com replaces the title with whatever Google wants it to
> be.

I don't see this. I get "Google - Vimperator" as expected.

> 3. :deleting the Google page returns to "about:blank" but with "Mozilla
> Firefox" in the title

I get "Vimperator" as expected.

Doug

From ted at tedpavlic.com  Sun Oct 25 11:23:06 2009
From: ted at tedpavlic.com (Ted Pavlic)
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 14:23:06 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] titlestring funniness?
In-Reply-To: <644fc65e0910250723r581672bei402d92faaf4620f6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AE1BCAF.5090804@tedpavlic.com>	<644fc65e0910242040v34125fd3i40843586fc714918@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AE452DF.8000706@tedpavlic.com>
	<644fc65e0910250723r581672bei402d92faaf4620f6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AE4978A.9090108@tedpavlic.com>

> I don't see this. I get "Google - Vimperator" as expected.

Hm. It does appear like some of the problems are caused by another 
extension (that I haven't isolated yet).

The only problem does seem to be Mac specific. When a blank page is 
loaded initially, it loads with "Mozilla FirefoxVimperator". I'll open a 
bug on that.

(note: Everything else loads with "tabTitle - Vimperator", as expected. 
However, when I delete a Mac tab to return me to a blank tab, the title 
goes to "Mozilla Firefox - Vimperator" rather than "Vimperator" as seen 
on Windows)

Best --
--Ted


-- 
Ted Pavlic <ted at tedpavlic.com>

   Please visit my 2009 d'Feet ALS walk page:
         http://web.alsa.org/goto/tedp
   My family appreciates your support in the fight to defeat ALS.

From ted at tedpavlic.com  Sun Oct 25 12:16:30 2009
From: ted at tedpavlic.com (Ted Pavlic)
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 15:16:30 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] titlestring funniness?
In-Reply-To: <4AE4978A.9090108@tedpavlic.com>
References: <4AE1BCAF.5090804@tedpavlic.com>	<644fc65e0910242040v34125fd3i40843586fc714918@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AE452DF.8000706@tedpavlic.com>
	<644fc65e0910250723r581672bei402d92faaf4620f6@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AE4978A.9090108@tedpavlic.com>
Message-ID: <4AE4A40E.1020006@tedpavlic.com>

> Hm. It does appear like some of the problems are caused by another
> extension (that I haven't isolated yet).

The other extension was "MR Tech Toolkit". It has an option (that is 
turned off) that will display build information in the title. Evidently 
"turning it off" means that the toolkit just replaces the title with 
what it thinks should be the default (rather than just leaving it alone).

> The only problem does seem to be Mac specific. When a blank page is
> loaded initially, it loads with "Mozilla FirefoxVimperator". I'll open a
> bug on that.
>
> (note: Everything else loads with "tabTitle - Vimperator", as expected.
> However, when I delete a Mac tab to return me to a blank tab, the title
> goes to "Mozilla Firefox - Vimperator" rather than "Vimperator" as seen
> on Windows)

However, this problem is definitely a Mac-specific problem with 
Vimperator (which has been opened as issue 126).

--Ted


-- 
Ted Pavlic <ted at tedpavlic.com>

   Please visit my 2009 d'Feet ALS walk page:
         http://web.alsa.org/goto/tedp
   My family appreciates your support in the fight to defeat ALS.

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Tue Oct 27 00:11:24 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 03:11:24 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Vimperator nightlies
Message-ID: <20091027071124.GL23287@jg>

If anyone is interested, nightlies are available again from,

     http://vimperator-labs.googlecode.com/

If you want to install them directly from the browser rather 
than download them first, you'll need:

     http://vimperator.sf.net/ticket/111

Once we've moved vimperator.org, I'll make better arrangements.

-- 
Kris Maglione

It should be noted that no ethically-trained software engineer would
ever consent to write a DestroyBaghdad procedure.  Basic professional
ethics would instead require him to write a DestroyCity procedure, to
which Baghdad could be given as a parameter.
	--Nathaniel S. Borenstein


From dougkearns at gmail.com  Tue Oct 27 05:51:02 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 23:51:02 +1100
Subject: [Vimperator] Vimperator nightlies
In-Reply-To: <20091027071124.GL23287@jg>
References: <20091027071124.GL23287@jg>
Message-ID: <644fc65e0910270551t484c8bc4wb862c7219787d78b@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 6:11 PM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
> If anyone is interested, nightlies are available again from,
>
> ? ?http://vimperator-labs.googlecode.com/
>
> If you want to install them directly from the browser rather than download
> them first, you'll need:
>
> ? ?http://vimperator.sf.net/ticket/111
>
> Once we've moved vimperator.org, I'll make better arrangements.

Thanks, I think these are actually quite important.

Doug

From rz at linux-m68k.org  Tue Oct 27 10:56:21 2009
From: rz at linux-m68k.org (Richard Zidlicky)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 18:56:21 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] bug
Message-ID: <20091027175621.GA26200@linux-m68k.org>

Hi,

I am rarely but persistently getting the problem thats best described by the attached
"xwd" screendump. In this state vimperator will not let me enter commands and so far 
I could not figure out any better cure than a restart.

It has beend there in 3.0.x and 2.5.x alike, and there is nothing special I could observe
about the circumstances when it occurs.

Richard

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From maglione.k at gmail.com  Tue Oct 27 12:32:16 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 15:32:16 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] bug
In-Reply-To: <20091027175621.GA26200@linux-m68k.org>
References: <20091027175621.GA26200@linux-m68k.org>
Message-ID: <20091027193216.GN23287@jg>

On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 06:56:21PM +0100, Richard Zidlicky wrote:
>I am rarely but persistently getting the problem thats best described by the attached
>"xwd" screendump. In this state vimperator will not let me enter commands and so far
>I could not figure out any better cure than a restart.
>
>It has beend there in 3.0.x and 2.5.x alike, and there is nothing special I could observe
>about the circumstances when it occurs.

Hi,

First, can you please not post screenshots to the list. There 
are services like imageshack (google image hosting for 10 
relevant results). Also, try a compressed format.

Second, can you describe the problem a bit more? The screenshot 
is not very descriptive.

-- 
Kris Maglione

TeX has found at least one bug in every Pascal compiler it's been run
on, I think, and at least two in every C compiler.
	--Donald Knuth


From rz at linux-m68k.org  Tue Oct 27 12:57:58 2009
From: rz at linux-m68k.org (Richard Zidlicky)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 20:57:58 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] bug
In-Reply-To: <20091027193216.GN23287@jg>
References: <20091027175621.GA26200@linux-m68k.org> <20091027193216.GN23287@jg>
Message-ID: <20091027195758.GA27795@linux-m68k.org>

On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 03:32:16PM -0400, Kris Maglione wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 06:56:21PM +0100, Richard Zidlicky wrote:
>> I am rarely but persistently getting the problem thats best described by the attached
>> "xwd" screendump. In this state vimperator will not let me enter commands and so far
>> I could not figure out any better cure than a restart.
>>
>> It has beend there in 3.0.x and 2.5.x alike, and there is nothing special I could observe
>> about the circumstances when it occurs.
>
> Hi,
>
> First, can you please not post screenshots to the list. There are 
> services like imageshack (google image hosting for 10 relevant results). 
> Also, try a compressed format.

sorry about that, though 58Kb is not too bad for a naive bzip compression.

> Second, can you describe the problem a bit more? The screenshot is not 
> very descriptive.

what happens is that the modeline goes all the way up and is the message area takes
up most of the screen like what the screenshot shows. Well that was unintended, I know
no way to reverse it and that is the problem.
I am not aware of any specific action that triggers it. Even stranger last time it happend 
when I was working on a different desktop.
Once it happens I can use gui elements but vimperator does not respond to any key or 
ex commands - at least not visibly.

Richard

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Tue Oct 27 13:05:48 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:05:48 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] bug
In-Reply-To: <20091027195758.GA27795@linux-m68k.org>
References: <20091027175621.GA26200@linux-m68k.org> <20091027193216.GN23287@jg>
	<20091027195758.GA27795@linux-m68k.org>
Message-ID: <20091027200548.GO23287@jg>

On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 08:57:58PM +0100, Richard Zidlicky wrote:
>> Second, can you describe the problem a bit more? The screenshot is not
>> very descriptive.
>
>what happens is that the modeline goes all the way up and is 
>the message area takes up most of the screen like what the 
>screenshot shows. Well that was unintended, I know no way to 
>reverse it and that is the problem.  I am not aware of any 
>specific action that triggers it. Even stranger last time it 
>happend when I was working on a different desktop.  Once it 
>happens I can use gui elements but vimperator does not respond 
>to any key or ex commands - at least not visibly.

Do you have any other extensions enabled? Also, what version of 
Firefox are you using, how old is your profile, and what version 
of Firefox did you have when you created it?

-- 
Kris Maglione

Programming X Windows is like trying to find the square root of Pi
using roman numerals.
	--Henry Spencer


From rz at linux-m68k.org  Tue Oct 27 13:26:21 2009
From: rz at linux-m68k.org (Richard Zidlicky)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 21:26:21 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] bug
In-Reply-To: <20091027200548.GO23287@jg>
References: <20091027175621.GA26200@linux-m68k.org> <20091027193216.GN23287@jg>
	<20091027195758.GA27795@linux-m68k.org> <20091027200548.GO23287@jg>
Message-ID: <20091027202621.GA28221@linux-m68k.org>

On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 04:05:48PM -0400, Kris Maglione wrote:

>
> Do you have any other extensions enabled? Also, what version of Firefox 
> are you using, how old is your profile, and what version of Firefox did 
> you have when you created it?

loads of extensions:
 addblock, noscript, greasemonkey, scrapbook

In addition to that I have a few more, however the problem predates the installation
of those extensions so I won't list them here.

I did frequently clean my profile by hand so it should be free of any pre-3.0.x parts.

The problem happened with various Firefox versions on Ubuntu 8.04 and Fedora 10,
namely 3.0.4, 3.0.8-3.0.12 and now 3.5.3.

Is there any way to debug it live? I have the window still around as in the picture, just 
opened the javascript error console (c-s-j) so in theory I should be able to enter a few
js commands and figure it out?

Richard

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Tue Oct 27 13:42:58 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:42:58 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] bug
In-Reply-To: <20091027202621.GA28221@linux-m68k.org>
References: <20091027175621.GA26200@linux-m68k.org> <20091027193216.GN23287@jg>
	<20091027195758.GA27795@linux-m68k.org> <20091027200548.GO23287@jg>
	<20091027202621.GA28221@linux-m68k.org>
Message-ID: <20091027204258.GP23287@jg>

On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 09:26:21PM +0100, Richard Zidlicky wrote:
>loads of extensions:
> addblock, noscript, greasemonkey, scrapbook
>
>In addition to that I have a few more, however the problem predates the installation
>of those extensions so I won't list them here.
>
>I did frequently clean my profile by hand so it should be free of any pre-3.0.x parts.

That's not good enough. Profiles tend to accumulate a lot of 
cruft over time. They go stale to the point that you have to 
start from scratch. Notice the myriad rdf, ini, dat and sqlite 
files. Even if you clean them all by hand, you still tend to 
wind up with problems after a while. It's easiest to just start 
from scratch.

>Is there any way to debug it live? I have the window still 
>around as in the picture, just opened the javascript error 
>console (c-s-j) so in theory I should be able to enter a few js 
>commands and figure it out?

Maybe. I'll have to think about it. If you open a new window 
(<C-n>), does it have the same problem?

-- 
Kris Maglione

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by
stupidity.
	--Hanlon's razor


From rz at linux-m68k.org  Tue Oct 27 13:46:50 2009
From: rz at linux-m68k.org (Richard Zidlicky)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 21:46:50 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] bug
In-Reply-To: <20091027204258.GP23287@jg>
References: <20091027175621.GA26200@linux-m68k.org> <20091027193216.GN23287@jg>
	<20091027195758.GA27795@linux-m68k.org> <20091027200548.GO23287@jg>
	<20091027202621.GA28221@linux-m68k.org> <20091027204258.GP23287@jg>
Message-ID: <20091027204650.GB28221@linux-m68k.org>

On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 04:42:58PM -0400, Kris Maglione wrote:

>> Is there any way to debug it live? I have the window still around as in 
>> the picture, just opened the javascript error console (c-s-j) so in 
>> theory I should be able to enter a few js commands and figure it out?
>
> Maybe. I'll have to think about it. If you open a new window (<C-n>), 
> does it have the same problem?

the new window works perfectly, the old is unchangend.

Richard

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Tue Oct 27 14:50:29 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:50:29 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Vimperator nightlies
In-Reply-To: <20091027071124.GL23287@jg>
References: <20091027071124.GL23287@jg>
Message-ID: <20091027215029.GQ23287@jg>

On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 03:11:24AM -0400, Kris Maglione wrote:
>If anyone is interested, nightlies are available again from,
>
>    http://vimperator-labs.googlecode.com/
>
>If you want to install them directly from the browser rather than 
>download them first, you'll need:
>
>    http://vimperator.sf.net/ticket/111
>
>Once we've moved vimperator.org, I'll make better arrangements.

Ok, I've changed my mind and decided not to wait. The last five 
nightlies are available here:

     http://vimperator.sf.net/nightlies.xhtml

It will be http://vimperator.org/nightlies.xhtml when we move.

-- 
Kris Maglione

FAITH, n.  Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks
without knowledge, of things without parallel.
	--Ambrose Bierce


From rz at linux-m68k.org  Tue Oct 27 16:11:46 2009
From: rz at linux-m68k.org (Richard Zidlicky)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 00:11:46 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] bug
In-Reply-To: <20091027204258.GP23287@jg>
References: <20091027175621.GA26200@linux-m68k.org> <20091027193216.GN23287@jg>
	<20091027195758.GA27795@linux-m68k.org> <20091027200548.GO23287@jg>
	<20091027202621.GA28221@linux-m68k.org> <20091027204258.GP23287@jg>
Message-ID: <20091027231146.GA759@linux-m68k.org>

On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 04:42:58PM -0400, Kris Maglione wrote:

>> Is there any way to debug it live? I have the window still around as in 
>> the picture, just opened the javascript error console (c-s-j) so in 
>> theory I should be able to enter a few js commands and figure it out?

well i will try to keep it around fro a while in case someone wants to
guide me through debugging it.


Richard

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Tue Oct 27 16:43:04 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 00:43:04 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH 0 of 1] Towards replacing asciidoc.
In-Reply-To: <20091024051247.GG23287@jg>
References: <patchbomb.1256174233@localhost.localdomain>
	<20091024051247.GG23287@jg>
Message-ID: <4AE78588.2000407@vimperator.org>

On 10/24/2009 07:12 AM, Kris Maglione wrote:

> Also, once you've applied it, just type :h options


hg pull -u
hg update -C xslt
:restart
:h options

E149: Sorry, no help for options


Actually, :help <tab> only shows me "all" (which fails as well).

Do I need to manually do something? (Tried "make" - didn't seem to change something).

--
Martin

PS: The system looks quite cool, hopefully it also works that well,
then it's definitely a nice improvement.

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Tue Oct 27 16:46:05 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 19:46:05 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH 0 of 1] Towards replacing asciidoc.
In-Reply-To: <4AE78588.2000407@vimperator.org>
References: <patchbomb.1256174233@localhost.localdomain>
	<20091024051247.GG23287@jg> <4AE78588.2000407@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091027234605.GR23287@jg>

On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 12:43:04AM +0100, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>On 10/24/2009 07:12 AM, Kris Maglione wrote:
>
>> Also, once you've applied it, just type :h options
>
>
>hg pull -u
>hg update -C xslt
>:restart
>:h options
>
>E149: Sorry, no help for options
>
>
>Actually, :help <tab> only shows me "all" (which fails as well).
>
>Do I need to manually do something? (Tried "make" - didn't seem to change something).

You need to remove compreg.dat.

-- 
Kris Maglione

I did say something along the lines of "C makes it easy to shoot
yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but when you do, it blows
your whole leg off."
	--Bjarne Stroustrup


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Tue Oct 27 17:08:57 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 20:08:57 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH 0 of 1] Towards replacing asciidoc.
In-Reply-To: <4AE78588.2000407@vimperator.org>
References: <patchbomb.1256174233@localhost.localdomain>
	<20091024051247.GG23287@jg> <4AE78588.2000407@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091028000857.GS23287@jg>

On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 12:43:04AM +0100, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>hg pull -u
>hg update -C xslt
>:restart
>:h options
>
>E149: Sorry, no help for options

Nevermind, that was my fault. It's fixed now.

Can you point bug.vimperator.org, issue.vimperator.org, and 
ticket.vimperator.org at vhost.sourceforge.net?

-- 
Kris Maglione

I do not believe in the immortality of the individual, and I consider
ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority
behind it.
	--Albert Einstein


From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Tue Oct 27 17:19:12 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 01:19:12 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH 0 of 1] Towards replacing asciidoc.
In-Reply-To: <20091028000857.GS23287@jg>
References: <patchbomb.1256174233@localhost.localdomain>	<20091024051247.GG23287@jg>
	<4AE78588.2000407@vimperator.org> <20091028000857.GS23287@jg>
Message-ID: <4AE78E00.7000608@vimperator.org>

On 10/28/2009 01:08 AM, Kris Maglione wrote:

> Can you point bug.vimperator.org, issue.vimperator.org, and 
> ticket.vimperator.org at vhost.sourceforge.net?


Hmm, do you propose to use their ticket system in future?
Otherwise I don't understand those forwards.

If you explain to me, why SF's issue trackers are better, I am
certainly open to change. Or do you think about using their
backend, but working on our own front-end for bugs/etc. which
just uses their backend?

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Tue Oct 27 17:27:52 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 20:27:52 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH 0 of 1] Towards replacing asciidoc.
In-Reply-To: <4AE78E00.7000608@vimperator.org>
References: <patchbomb.1256174233@localhost.localdomain>
	<20091024051247.GG23287@jg> <4AE78588.2000407@vimperator.org>
	<20091028000857.GS23287@jg> <4AE78E00.7000608@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091028002752.GT23287@jg>

On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 01:19:12AM +0100, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>On 10/28/2009 01:08 AM, Kris Maglione wrote:
>Hmm, do you propose to use their ticket system in future?
>Otherwise I don't understand those forwards.

Just think of it as TinyURL for our tickets. Right now, 
vimperator.sf.net/(bug|issue|ticket)/(.*) points to 
http://code.google.com/p/vimperator-labs/issues/detail?id=$1. 
The subdomains do the same, except that they have no proper 
CNAMEs yet.

>If you explain to me, why SF's issue trackers are better, I am
>certainly open to change. Or do you think about using their
>backend, but working on our own front-end for bugs/etc. which
>just uses their backend?

What?! SF's issue trackers are god aweful!

-- 
Kris Maglione

The first symptom of love in a young man is shyness; the first symptom
in a woman, it's boldness.
	--Victor Hugo


From dpb at driftaway.org  Tue Oct 27 23:14:52 2009
From: dpb at driftaway.org (Daniel Bainton)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 08:14:52 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Vimperator nightlies
In-Reply-To: <20091027215029.GQ23287@jg>
References: <20091027071124.GL23287@jg> <20091027215029.GQ23287@jg>
Message-ID: <dd9711230910272314x3816c93dxfaf3449a0a08a0ff@mail.gmail.com>

2009/10/27 Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com>:
> On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 03:11:24AM -0400, Kris Maglione wrote:
>>
>> If anyone is interested, nightlies are available again from,
>>
>> ? http://vimperator-labs.googlecode.com/
>>
>> If you want to install them directly from the browser rather than download
>> them first, you'll need:
>>
>> ? http://vimperator.sf.net/ticket/111
>>
>> Once we've moved vimperator.org, I'll make better arrangements.
>
> Ok, I've changed my mind and decided not to wait. The last five nightlies
> are available here:
>
> ? ?http://vimperator.sf.net/nightlies.xhtml
>
> It will be http://vimperator.org/nightlies.xhtml when we move.

Last five? I only see two.

How do you generate the nightlies?

--
Daniel

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Tue Oct 27 23:18:43 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 02:18:43 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Vimperator nightlies
In-Reply-To: <dd9711230910272314x3816c93dxfaf3449a0a08a0ff@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091027071124.GL23287@jg> <20091027215029.GQ23287@jg>
	<dd9711230910272314x3816c93dxfaf3449a0a08a0ff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091028061843.GU23287@jg>

On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 08:14:52AM +0200, Daniel Bainton wrote:
>2009/10/27 Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com>:
>> Ok, I've changed my mind and decided not to wait. The last five nightlies
>> are available here:
>>
>> ? ?http://vimperator.sf.net/nightlies.xhtml
>>
>> It will be http://vimperator.org/nightlies.xhtml when we move.
>
>Last five? I only see two.
>
>How do you generate the nightlies?

That's because there are only two. When we get to five, the last 
five will be shown.

I have a nightly cron job that builds the XPI and uploads it to 
Google Code. The vimperator.org just generates the links for the 
last five days and adds some InstallTrigger sugar so they'll 
install properly.

-- 
Kris Maglione

The camel has evolved to be relatively self-sufficient.  On the other
hand, the camel has not evolved to smell good.  Neither has Perl.
	--Larry Wall


From dpb at driftaway.org  Wed Oct 28 00:11:57 2009
From: dpb at driftaway.org (Daniel Bainton)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 09:11:57 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Vimperator nightlies
In-Reply-To: <20091028061843.GU23287@jg>
References: <20091027071124.GL23287@jg> <20091027215029.GQ23287@jg> 
	<dd9711230910272314x3816c93dxfaf3449a0a08a0ff@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20091028061843.GU23287@jg>
Message-ID: <dd9711230910280011r1f780cefw55e00ff4bed77fcb@mail.gmail.com>

2009/10/28 Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com>:
> On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 08:14:52AM +0200, Daniel Bainton wrote:
>>
>> 2009/10/27 Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>> Ok, I've changed my mind and decided not to wait. The last five nightlies
>>> are available here:
>>>
>>> ? ?http://vimperator.sf.net/nightlies.xhtml
>>>
>>> It will be http://vimperator.org/nightlies.xhtml when we move.
>>
>> Last five? I only see two.
>>
>> How do you generate the nightlies?
>
> That's because there are only two. When we get to five, the last five will
> be shown.
>
> I have a nightly cron job that builds the XPI and uploads it to Google Code.
> The vimperator.org just generates the links for the last five days and adds
> some InstallTrigger sugar so they'll install properly.

So it's dependant on your home machine being online? So if you
disappear from the project someday, the nightlies will go with you?

And what about muttator and xulmus nightlies? I only see vimperator there.

--
Daniel

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Wed Oct 28 00:19:51 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 03:19:51 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Vimperator nightlies
In-Reply-To: <dd9711230910280011r1f780cefw55e00ff4bed77fcb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091027071124.GL23287@jg> <20091027215029.GQ23287@jg>
	<dd9711230910272314x3816c93dxfaf3449a0a08a0ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091028061843.GU23287@jg>
	<dd9711230910280011r1f780cefw55e00ff4bed77fcb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091028071951.GV23287@jg>

On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 09:11:57AM +0200, Daniel Bainton wrote:
>2009/10/28 Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com>:
>> That's because there are only two. When we get to five, the last five will
>> be shown.
>>
>> I have a nightly cron job that builds the XPI and uploads it to Google Code.
>> The vimperator.org just generates the links for the last five days and adds
>> some InstallTrigger sugar so they'll install properly.
>
>So it's dependant on your home machine being online? So if you
>disappear from the project someday, the nightlies will go with you?
>
>And what about muttator and xulmus nightlies? I only see vimperator there.

Yes. If someone has a more reliable method of generating them, 
then great. But until then, this is the best option I have.

I'll add Xulmus and Muttator nightlies later.

-- 
Kris Maglione

Lisp doesn't look any deader than usual to me.
	--David Thornley


From dougkearns at gmail.com  Wed Oct 28 01:12:39 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 19:12:39 +1100
Subject: [Vimperator] Vimperator nightlies
In-Reply-To: <dd9711230910280011r1f780cefw55e00ff4bed77fcb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091027071124.GL23287@jg> <20091027215029.GQ23287@jg> 
	<dd9711230910272314x3816c93dxfaf3449a0a08a0ff@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20091028061843.GU23287@jg>
	<dd9711230910280011r1f780cefw55e00ff4bed77fcb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <644fc65e0910280112k51e0e0b0l4124b52eac601bc@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 6:11 PM, Daniel Bainton <dpb at driftaway.org> wrote:
<snip>
> So it's dependant on your home machine being online? So if you
> disappear from the project someday, the nightlies will go with you?

Not that different to what happened to the nightlies recently then. ;-)

Doug

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Wed Oct 28 01:17:59 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 04:17:59 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Vimperator nightlies
In-Reply-To: <644fc65e0910280112k51e0e0b0l4124b52eac601bc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091027071124.GL23287@jg> <20091027215029.GQ23287@jg>
	<dd9711230910272314x3816c93dxfaf3449a0a08a0ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091028061843.GU23287@jg>
	<dd9711230910280011r1f780cefw55e00ff4bed77fcb@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0910280112k51e0e0b0l4124b52eac601bc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091028081759.GW23287@jg>

On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 07:12:39PM +1100, Doug Kearns wrote:
>On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 6:11 PM, Daniel Bainton <dpb at driftaway.org> wrote:
><snip>
>> So it's dependant on your home machine being online? So if you
>> disappear from the project someday, the nightlies will go with you?
>
>Not that different to what happened to the nightlies recently then. ;-)

You've just ruined my attempt at diplomacy. :(

(Thanks :)

-- 
Kris Maglione

It is what you read when you don't have to that determines what you
will be when you can't help it.
	--Oscar Wilde


From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Wed Oct 28 01:51:42 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 09:51:42 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH 0 of 1] Towards replacing asciidoc.
In-Reply-To: <20091028002752.GT23287@jg>
References: <patchbomb.1256174233@localhost.localdomain>	<20091024051247.GG23287@jg>
	<4AE78588.2000407@vimperator.org>	<20091028000857.GS23287@jg>
	<4AE78E00.7000608@vimperator.org> <20091028002752.GT23287@jg>
Message-ID: <4AE8061E.5050103@vimperator.org>

On 10/28/2009 01:27 AM, Kris Maglione wrote:

> The subdomains do the same, except that they have no proper 
> CNAMEs yet.


Ah, I see. Thanks. Will add them now.

From vimperator at mozdev.org  Wed Oct 28 01:59:48 2009
From: vimperator at mozdev.org (© VIAGRA ® Official)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 01:59:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Vimperator] [SPAM] Dear vimperator@mozdev.org 79% 0FF on Pfizer !
Message-ID: <20091028085950.05AD0844C8@mozdev.mozdev.org>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mozdev.org/pipermail/vimperator/attachments/20091028/fe75bfaf/attachment.html>

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Wed Oct 28 02:07:23 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 10:07:23 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] Vimperator nightlies
In-Reply-To: <20091027215029.GQ23287@jg>
References: <20091027071124.GL23287@jg> <20091027215029.GQ23287@jg>
Message-ID: <4AE809CB.2040502@vimperator.org>

On 10/27/2009 10:50 PM, Kris Maglione wrote:

> Ok, I've changed my mind and decided not to wait. The last five 
> nightlies are available here:


Thanks! The only issue is that it might be a good idea to delete
very old nightlies as well (maybe >1 month?). Not just that it would
really become a mess in a year if the downloads page contained
1000s of entries, but google code has a 2GB limit for files IIRC.

> It will be http://vimperator.org/nightlies.xhtml when we move.


You seem to know a little about url rewriting, wouldn't it be
possible (and preferable?) to just use vimperator.org/nightlies
and vimperator.org/muttator instead of showing the .xhtml suffix?

It's just that more and more sites which i know use such "nice"
urls and probably they are right, that the advantages are more
than (any?) disadvantages.

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Wed Oct 28 02:15:33 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 05:15:33 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Vimperator nightlies
In-Reply-To: <4AE809CB.2040502@vimperator.org>
References: <20091027071124.GL23287@jg> <20091027215029.GQ23287@jg>
	<4AE809CB.2040502@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091028091533.GX23287@jg>

On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 10:07:23AM +0100, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>On 10/27/2009 10:50 PM, Kris Maglione wrote:
>> Ok, I've changed my mind and decided not to wait. The last five
>> nightlies are available here:
>
>Thanks! The only issue is that it might be a good idea to delete
>very old nightlies as well (maybe >1 month?). Not just that it would
>really become a mess in a year if the downloads page contained
>1000s of entries, but google code has a 2GB limit for files IIRC.

That was my plan, but Google's recommendation is to label them 
Deprecated and never remove them. They suggest that you request 
a larger quota if it becomes a problem. Given that each XPI is 
only a third of a megabyte, I don't expect it to become a 
problem any time soon.

>> It will be http://vimperator.org/nightlies.xhtml when we move.
>
>You seem to know a little about url rewriting, wouldn't it be
>possible (and preferable?) to just use vimperator.org/nightlies
>and vimperator.org/muttator instead of showing the .xhtml suffix?

It might. I thought about it, but haven't decided. It would 
certainly make the transition easier, anyway, so I guess I will.

-- 
Kris Maglione

TeX has found at least one bug in every Pascal compiler it's been run
on, I think, and at least two in every C compiler.
	--Donald Knuth


From dougkearns at gmail.com  Wed Oct 28 07:59:20 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 01:59:20 +1100
Subject: [Vimperator] Announce: Vimperator 2.2 released
Message-ID: <644fc65e0910280759h6431c54ava00817e3698607ef@mail.gmail.com>

Vimperator 2.2 has been released and can be downloaded from
http://vimperator.org/vimperator

Here's the list of changes which is also available via :help version-2.2


* IMPORTANT: Vimperator's licence has changed from the MPL/GPL/LGPL tri-license
  to the MIT license.
* IMPORTANT: Map.flags has been replaced with individual properties. Mappings
   defined in plugins with mappings.add will need to be updated.

E.g.
  mappings.add(...,
      { flags: Mappings.flags.ARGUMENT |
	       Mappings.flags.COUNT |
	       Mappings.flags.MOTION |
	       Mappings.flags.ALLOW_EVENT_ROUTING });
is now
   mappings.add(...,
       { arg: true, count: true, motion: true, route: true });

* IMPORTANT: shifted key notation now matches Vim's behaviour. E.g. <C-a> and
  <C-A> are equivalent, to map the uppercase character use <C-S-A>. (this might
  change again, as this is REALLY inconsistent, and i don't know if I like
  copying bugs)
* IMPORTANT: 'popups' now takes a stringlist rather than a number.
* add :winonly
* add :tabattach
* add :keepalt
* add :styledisable, :styleenable, and :styletoggle
* add :sanitize, 'sanitizetimespan' and 'sanitizeitems'
* add :verbose
* add :window to run a command in a new window
* add ! version of :delbmarks to delete all bookmarks
* add :toolbaropen, :toolbarclose, and :toolbartoggle
* make :open behavior match that of :tabopen and :winopen when no argument is
  specified
* add extension related commands - :extadd, :extdelete, :extdisable,
  :extenable, :extensions, :extoptions
* add -javascript flag to :autocommand
* add 'private' - enter private browsing mode, matching PrivateMode autocommand
* add -description option to :command
* command-line options are now supported via the host application's -liberator
  option
* add ;i and ;I for opening image location (in new tab)
* add all.html to show all help sections in a single page - available via
  :helpall
* add ;c extended hint mode - open the context menu
* add @: mapping - repeat the last Ex command
* add | mapping - toggle between rendered and source view


Regards,
Doug

From mfwitten at gmail.com  Wed Oct 28 11:32:10 2009
From: mfwitten at gmail.com (Michael Witten)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 13:32:10 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
Message-ID: <b4087cc50910281132n586bc00fk66d4a5e25e77bc21@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 12:01 AM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
> So, after some weeks with Google Sites, its warts are becoming rather more
> annoying than its conveniences make up for. SourceForge provides free
> hosting, with full discretion to the developers, of static content and/or
> web apps, with full ssh and ftp access and no arbitrary limits. It also
> allows for virtual hosting, meaning we can use whichever domain we want.

You know what SourceForge also provides? The hosting of git repositories.

Why, again, did everything get dumped into a mercurial repository?

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Wed Oct 28 11:54:32 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 14:54:32 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <b4087cc50910281132n586bc00fk66d4a5e25e77bc21@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
	<b4087cc50910281132n586bc00fk66d4a5e25e77bc21@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091028185432.GA31304@jg>

On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 01:32:10PM -0500, Michael Witten wrote:
>On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 12:01 AM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
>> So, after some weeks with Google Sites, its warts are becoming rather more
>> annoying than its conveniences make up for. SourceForge provides free
>> hosting, with full discretion to the developers, of static content and/or
>> web apps, with full ssh and ftp access and no arbitrary limits. It also
>> allows for virtual hosting, meaning we can use whichever domain we want.
>
>You know what SourceForge also provides? The hosting of git repositories.
>
>Why, again, did everything get dumped into a mercurial repository?

Because git sucks, and mercurial sucks. If you want a git 
mirror, I'll set one up, but it will only be updated nightly.

-- 
Kris Maglione

You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to
your grandmother.
	--Albert Einstein


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Wed Oct 28 12:32:51 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 15:32:51 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <20091028185432.GA31304@jg>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
	<b4087cc50910281132n586bc00fk66d4a5e25e77bc21@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091028185432.GA31304@jg>
Message-ID: <20091028193251.GB31304@jg>

On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 02:54:32PM -0400, Kris Maglione wrote:
>On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 01:32:10PM -0500, Michael Witten wrote:
>>On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 12:01 AM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>So, after some weeks with Google Sites, its warts are becoming rather more
>>>annoying than its conveniences make up for. SourceForge provides free
>>>hosting, with full discretion to the developers, of static content and/or
>>>web apps, with full ssh and ftp access and no arbitrary limits. It also
>>>allows for virtual hosting, meaning we can use whichever domain we want.
>>
>>You know what SourceForge also provides? The hosting of git repositories.
>>
>>Why, again, did everything get dumped into a mercurial repository?
>
>Because git sucks, and mercurial sucks. If you want a git mirror, 
>I'll set one up, but it will only be updated nightly.

Let me restate that, since I'm obviously sleep deprived and 
incoherent. Git sucks and Sourceforge sucks. We're currently not 
using Sourceforge for anything other than web space, and I'd 
prefer to keep it that way. But I'd be happy to setup a git 
mirror on github. I suppose it would be easier for you if you 
were on the other side of the divide, since Mercurial supports 
git repos natively.

-- 
Kris Maglione

The computing scientist's main challenge is not to get confused by the
complexities of his own making.
	--Edsger W. Dijkstra


From jhdl at gmx.net  Wed Oct 28 14:51:48 2009
From: jhdl at gmx.net (Juergen Descher)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 22:51:48 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <20091028193251.GB31304@jg>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
	<b4087cc50910281132n586bc00fk66d4a5e25e77bc21@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091028185432.GA31304@jg> <20091028193251.GB31304@jg>
Message-ID: <20091028215148.GB8045@case.a42.local>

Quoting Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> (Mi, 28 Okt 2009, 15:32:51):
> On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 02:54:32PM -0400, Kris Maglione wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 01:32:10PM -0500, Michael Witten wrote:
>>> Why, again, did everything get dumped into a mercurial repository?
>>
>> Because git sucks, and mercurial sucks. If you want a git mirror, I'll 
>> set one up, but it will only be updated nightly.
> 
> [...]
> But I'd be happy to setup a git mirror on github. I suppose it would be 
> easier for you if you were on the other side of the divide, since 
> Mercurial supports git repos natively.

As a hint for those standing on the 'right side' using git (SCNR :D)

Take a look at:
  git://repo.or.cz/fast-export.git
it's better than pure hg2git, to import hg-repros.


But today I got into a mess:

  $ hg clone https://vimperator-labs.googlecode.com/hg/ vimp-hg
  $ mkdir vimp-git
  $ cd vimp-git
  $ git init
  $ hg-fast-export.sh -r ../vimp-hg
  Error: repository has at least one unnamed head: hg r3972

It failed cause of a 'unnamed head'.

Asked #mercurial on freenode and got a hint:

  $ cd ../vimp-hg
  $ hg update -C -r 3972
  $ hg branch kris-001
  $ hg commit
  $ hg update default
  $ cd ../vimp-git
  $ hg-fast-export.sh -r ../vimp-hg
  $ tig --all

(Tip: do 'git repack -a -d -f' this reduces the size of the git repro from 60MB to 6-7MB)

Ok, that worked. But what's if a new commit goes on top off hg r3972?
I'm lost again I think.

So my request is: Please don't use 'unnamed heads' anymore! I beg for
it, really! And please give 'hg r3972' a name :)

Then there's no need to setup a git mirror at github, and people could do
it when ever they want, using: 
  $ cd $VIMP_HG_DIR && hg pull && (cd $VIMP_GIT && hg-fast-export.sh -r $VIMP_HG_DIR)


Thanks for your work!
-Juergen



PS: Just did a successful 'hg pull; hg-fast-export.sh' without an error:
Verifying branch [master]
Verifying branch [xslt]
Verifying branch [kris-001]
xslt: Initializing to parent [de099cebfb2a0cd4d642a5c7f978d10ed0c4f4bb]
xslt: Exporting simple delta revision 3995/3996 with 0/1/0 added/changed/removed files
master: Initializing to parent [0e190fecc0eb51dfd1846ac8dfb09ff33d4a4fec]
master: Merging with parent [0e190fecc0eb51dfd1846ac8dfb09ff33d4a4fec] from [r3992]
master: Exporting thorough delta revision 3996/3996 with 48/34/67 added/changed/removed files
...


-- 
There is no substitute for good manners, except, perhaps, fast reflexes.

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Wed Oct 28 15:01:02 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 18:01:02 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <20091028215148.GB8045@case.a42.local>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
	<b4087cc50910281132n586bc00fk66d4a5e25e77bc21@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091028185432.GA31304@jg> <20091028193251.GB31304@jg>
	<20091028215148.GB8045@case.a42.local>
Message-ID: <20091028220102.GC31304@jg>

On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 10:51:48PM +0100, Juergen Descher wrote:
>As a hint for those standing on the 'right side' using git (SCNR :D)
>
>Take a look at:
>  git://repo.or.cz/fast-export.git
>it's better than pure hg2git, to import hg-repros.

I would never use hg2git. hg can do git natively:

     http://hg-git.github.com/

>But today I got into a mess:
>
>  $ hg clone https://vimperator-labs.googlecode.com/hg/ vimp-hg
>  $ mkdir vimp-git
>  $ cd vimp-git
>  $ git init
>  $ hg-fast-export.sh -r ../vimp-hg
>  Error: repository has at least one unnamed head: hg r3972
>
>It failed cause of a 'unnamed head'.
>
>Asked #mercurial on freenode and got a hint:
>
>  $ cd ../vimp-hg
>  $ hg update -C -r 3972
>  $ hg branch kris-001
>  $ hg commit
>  $ hg update default
>  $ cd ../vimp-git
>  $ hg-fast-export.sh -r ../vimp-hg
>  $ tig --all
>
>(Tip: do 'git repack -a -d -f' this reduces the size of the git repro from 60MB to 6-7MB)
>
>Ok, that worked. But what's if a new commit goes on top off hg r3972?
>I'm lost again I think.

Use hg-git, enable bookmarks, add a bookmark for the branch, and 
you're fine. hg-git manages unnamed branches just fine by 
itself, though.

>So my request is: Please don't use 'unnamed heads' anymore! I beg for
>it, really! And please give 'hg r3972' a name :)

Nope, that's how hg development works. Feel free to use hg 
instead of git, though.

>Then there's no need to setup a git mirror at github, and people could do
>it when ever they want, using:
>  $ cd $VIMP_HG_DIR && hg pull && (cd $VIMP_GIT && hg-fast-export.sh -r $VIMP_HG_DIR)

Well, I suppose they could. Seems rather pointless, really.

-- 
Kris Maglione

Technology is dominated by two types of people: Those who understand
what they do not manage.  Those who manage what they do not
understand.
	--Putt's Law


From jhdl at gmx.net  Wed Oct 28 15:58:40 2009
From: jhdl at gmx.net (Juergen Descher)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 23:58:40 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <20091028220102.GC31304@jg>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
	<b4087cc50910281132n586bc00fk66d4a5e25e77bc21@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091028185432.GA31304@jg> <20091028193251.GB31304@jg>
	<20091028215148.GB8045@case.a42.local> <20091028220102.GC31304@jg>
Message-ID: <20091028225840.GC8045@case.a42.local>

Quoting Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> (Mi, 28 Okt 2009, 18:01:02):
> On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 10:51:48PM +0100, Juergen Descher wrote:
>> As a hint for those standing on the 'right side' using git (SCNR :D)
>>
>> Take a look at:
>>  git://repo.or.cz/fast-export.git
>> it's better than pure hg2git, to import hg-repros.
>
> I would never use hg2git. hg can do git natively:
>
>     http://hg-git.github.com/

Gna, I have a very old version off hg-git which didn't worked well, and
the clone url was broken.
first commit: 2008-04-16 14:47 Scott Chacon
last commit:  2008-12-24 15:51 Eric Lindvall 

So I forgot about it. But I'll give it a try. Thanks.

>> So my request is: Please don't use 'unnamed heads' anymore! I beg for
>> it, really! And please give 'hg r3972' a name :)
>
> Nope, that's how hg development works. Feel free to use hg instead of 
> git, though.
Thx :)

>> Then there's no need to setup a git mirror at github, and people could do
>> it when ever they want, using:
>>  $ cd $VIMP_HG_DIR && hg pull && (cd $VIMP_GIT && hg-fast-export.sh -r $VIMP_HG_DIR)
>
> Well, I suppose they could. Seems rather pointless, really.

Speaking for me, it's not 'pointless'. Doing things (local) on a git
repro - specially branching, inspecting a (cloned) repro with tig, etc,
is much more fun for me than doing that with hg, which I don't like and
don't want to learn. And if I've a going hg<->git conversion, I'm very
happy. 

regards
-Juergen


From mfwitten at gmail.com  Wed Oct 28 16:04:25 2009
From: mfwitten at gmail.com (Michael Witten)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 18:04:25 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <20091028220102.GC31304@jg>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
	<b4087cc50910281132n586bc00fk66d4a5e25e77bc21@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20091028185432.GA31304@jg> <20091028193251.GB31304@jg>
	<20091028215148.GB8045@case.a42.local> <20091028220102.GC31304@jg>
Message-ID: <b4087cc50910281604i74067a90o8d0472debc7c27c0@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 2:32 PM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
> Git sucks

and, especially:

On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 5:01 PM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
> Nope, that's how hg development works. Feel free to use hg instead of git,
> though.

So, basically, it was just another Maglione power-play.

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Wed Oct 28 16:05:02 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 19:05:02 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <20091028225840.GC8045@case.a42.local>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
	<b4087cc50910281132n586bc00fk66d4a5e25e77bc21@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091028185432.GA31304@jg> <20091028193251.GB31304@jg>
	<20091028215148.GB8045@case.a42.local> <20091028220102.GC31304@jg>
	<20091028225840.GC8045@case.a42.local>
Message-ID: <20091028230502.GD31304@jg>

On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 11:58:40PM +0100, Juergen Descher wrote:
>Quoting Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> (Mi, 28 Okt 2009, 18:01:02):
>> On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 10:51:48PM +0100, Juergen Descher wrote:
>>> As a hint for those standing on the 'right side' using git (SCNR :D)
>>>
>>> Take a look at:
>>>  git://repo.or.cz/fast-export.git
>>> it's better than pure hg2git, to import hg-repros.
>>
>> I would never use hg2git. hg can do git natively:
>>
>>     http://hg-git.github.com/
>
>Gna, I have a very old version off hg-git which didn't worked well, and
>the clone url was broken.
>first commit: 2008-04-16 14:47 Scott Chacon
>last commit:  2008-12-24 15:51 Eric Lindvall
>
>So I forgot about it. But I'll give it a try. Thanks.

You should really use the hg version. It works a log better, but 
it requires Dulwich.

     http://bitbucket.org/abderrahim/hg-git/

>> Well, I suppose they could. Seems rather pointless, really.
>
>Speaking for me, it's not 'pointless'. Doing things (local) on a git
>repro - specially branching, inspecting a (cloned) repro with tig, etc,
>is much more fun for me than doing that with hg, which I don't like and
>don't want to learn. And if I've a going hg<->git conversion, I'm very
>happy.

I just mean it seems silly to do the extra step of conversion 
when there's a mirror. It's a bit funny that you know you don't 
like hg when you've yet to learn it, though.

-- 
Kris Maglione

He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned
my contempt.  He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for
him the spinal cord would suffice.
	--Albert Einstein


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Wed Oct 28 16:13:23 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 19:13:23 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <b4087cc50910281604i74067a90o8d0472debc7c27c0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
	<b4087cc50910281132n586bc00fk66d4a5e25e77bc21@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091028185432.GA31304@jg> <20091028193251.GB31304@jg>
	<20091028215148.GB8045@case.a42.local> <20091028220102.GC31304@jg>
	<b4087cc50910281604i74067a90o8d0472debc7c27c0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091028231323.GE31304@jg>

On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 06:04:25PM -0500, Michael Witten wrote:
>On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 5:01 PM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Nope, that's how hg development works. Feel free to use hg instead of git,
>> though.
>
>So, basically, it was just another Maglione power-play.

No, my power plays are quite unambiguous.

-- 
Kris Maglione

If a book be false in its facts, disprove them; if false in its
reasoning, refute it.  But for God s sake, let us freely hear both
sides if we choose.
	--Thomas Jefferson


From jhdl at gmx.net  Wed Oct 28 21:56:07 2009
From: jhdl at gmx.net (Juergen Descher)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 05:56:07 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] Moving from Google Sites to Sourceforge
In-Reply-To: <20091028230502.GD31304@jg>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
	<b4087cc50910281132n586bc00fk66d4a5e25e77bc21@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091028185432.GA31304@jg> <20091028193251.GB31304@jg>
	<20091028215148.GB8045@case.a42.local> <20091028220102.GC31304@jg>
	<20091028225840.GC8045@case.a42.local> <20091028230502.GD31304@jg>
Message-ID: <20091029045607.GD8045@case.a42.local>

Quoting Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> (Mi, 28 Okt 2009, 19:05:02):
> On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 11:58:40PM +0100, Juergen Descher wrote:
>> Quoting Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> (Mi, 28 Okt 2009, 18:01:02):
>>> On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 10:51:48PM +0100, Juergen Descher wrote:
>>>> As a hint for those standing on the 'right side' using git (SCNR :D)
>>>>
>>>> Take a look at:
>>>>  git://repo.or.cz/fast-export.git
>>>> it's better than pure hg2git, to import hg-repros.
>>>
>>> I would never use hg2git. hg can do git natively:
>>>
>>>     http://hg-git.github.com/
>>
>> Gna, I have a very old version off hg-git which didn't worked well, and
>> the clone url was broken.
>> first commit: 2008-04-16 14:47 Scott Chacon
>> last commit:  2008-12-24 15:51 Eric Lindvall
>>
>> So I forgot about it. But I'll give it a try. Thanks.
>
> You should really use the hg version. It works a log better, but it 
> requires Dulwich.
>
>     http://bitbucket.org/abderrahim/hg-git/

Thx.

>>> Well, I suppose they could. Seems rather pointless, really.
>>
>> Speaking for me, it's not 'pointless'. Doing things (local) on a git
>> repro - specially branching, inspecting a (cloned) repro with tig, etc,
>> is much more fun for me than doing that with hg, which I don't like and
>> don't want to learn. And if I've a going hg<->git conversion, I'm very
>> happy.
>
> I just mean it seems silly to do the extra step of conversion when 
> there's a mirror.

It's just for my independence. vimperator changed a lot:
  cvs -> git -> hg
And why to wait for 'nightly' update if I can do it just in time - if I
want.

> It's a bit funny that you know you don't like hg when 
> you've yet to learn it, though.

'have to learn something' to know most of the tricks, doesn't mean that
I didn't read a lot about hg. Times ago when I changed from good old cvs
to to a DVCS I read FAQs manpages, and other stuff a lot. And I made a
decision: 'I'll use git', for me it was a good one. 

But it seems to be a discussion like 'my vim is better than
your emaces' ...

-Juergen

From dotancohen at gmail.com  Thu Oct 29 03:09:25 2009
From: dotancohen at gmail.com (Dotan Cohen)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 12:09:25 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Setting shortcuts for other extensions?
Message-ID: <880dece00910290309x4589008cl4aede5e4a868c8fc@mail.gmail.com>

Can vimperator set a keyboard shortcut for an XUL event for another extension?

Specifically, I use the Tree Style Tabs extension. The Firefox tabs
can be hidden when clicking on the sidebar with this extension. Can
that click be simulated with a Vimperator shortcut? In other words,
can Vimperator help me assign a shortcut to the hide/show tabbar
feature of the Tree Style Tabs extension?

Thanks in advance for any ideas.

-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il

From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Thu Oct 29 03:45:21 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 11:45:21 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] Setting shortcuts for other extensions?
In-Reply-To: <880dece00910290309x4589008cl4aede5e4a868c8fc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <880dece00910290309x4589008cl4aede5e4a868c8fc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aaae92100910290345i16a65792k2545c3b88f1e5e1b@mail.gmail.com>

It can be done, but you need to know a little javascript. Have a look
at events.create();

From dotancohen at gmail.com  Thu Oct 29 04:47:35 2009
From: dotancohen at gmail.com (Dotan Cohen)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 13:47:35 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Setting shortcuts for other extensions?
In-Reply-To: <aaae92100910290345i16a65792k2545c3b88f1e5e1b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <880dece00910290309x4589008cl4aede5e4a868c8fc@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaae92100910290345i16a65792k2545c3b88f1e5e1b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <880dece00910290447l187b93f5tf82ffcf491ecf1d6@mail.gmail.com>

> It can be done, but you need to know a little javascript. Have a look
> at events.create();

Thanks, Martin, is there a fine manual that deals with this? My field
is not CS, but I can read manuals. Thanks.


-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il

From dotancohen at gmail.com  Thu Oct 29 04:50:15 2009
From: dotancohen at gmail.com (Dotan Cohen)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 13:50:15 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] How to edit the current URL?
Message-ID: <880dece00910290450vdc007a1icd6abcd63925e7a0@mail.gmail.com>

If I am on a page, how can I edit the current URL? For instance, If I
am on the page http://vimperator.org/vimperator and I want to go to
the muttator page, how can I edit the URL to avoid having to type in
the whole http://vimperator.org/muttator URL?

Thanks in advance.


-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il

From dpb at driftaway.org  Thu Oct 29 04:54:44 2009
From: dpb at driftaway.org (Daniel Bainton)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 13:54:44 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] How to edit the current URL?
In-Reply-To: <880dece00910290450vdc007a1icd6abcd63925e7a0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <880dece00910290450vdc007a1icd6abcd63925e7a0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dd9711230910290454u390225dbjecaa284e260581fe@mail.gmail.com>

2009/10/29 Dotan Cohen <dotancohen at gmail.com>:
> If I am on a page, how can I edit the current URL? For instance, If I
> am on the page http://vimperator.org/vimperator and I want to go to
> the muttator page, how can I edit the URL to avoid having to type in
> the whole http://vimperator.org/muttator URL?

:help O

--
Daniel

From dotancohen at gmail.com  Thu Oct 29 05:04:12 2009
From: dotancohen at gmail.com (Dotan Cohen)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 14:04:12 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] How to edit the current URL?
In-Reply-To: <dd9711230910290454u390225dbjecaa284e260581fe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <880dece00910290450vdc007a1icd6abcd63925e7a0@mail.gmail.com>
	<dd9711230910290454u390225dbjecaa284e260581fe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <880dece00910290504v31f8adb2lce956b7cf4f03781@mail.gmail.com>

> :help O
>

Thanks!


-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il

From jhdl at gmx.net  Thu Oct 29 08:52:24 2009
From: jhdl at gmx.net (Juergen Descher)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:52:24 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] hg-git (was: Moving from Google Sites
	to	Sourceforge)
In-Reply-To: <20091028230502.GD31304@jg>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
	<b4087cc50910281132n586bc00fk66d4a5e25e77bc21@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091028185432.GA31304@jg> <20091028193251.GB31304@jg>
	<20091028215148.GB8045@case.a42.local> <20091028220102.GC31304@jg>
	<20091028225840.GC8045@case.a42.local> <20091028230502.GD31304@jg>
Message-ID: <20091029155224.GE8045@case.a42.local>

My last 2 cents... (JFYI)

Quoting Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> (Mi, 28 Okt 2009, 19:05:02):
> You should really use the hg version. It works a log better, but it
> requires Dulwich.
>
>     http://bitbucket.org/abderrahim/hg-git/

On #vimperator there was a great info today:

google: <1256798426-21816-1-git-send-email-srabbelier at gmail.com>


  Subject: [PATCH 0/7] Prepare git-remote-helpers series for hg support

  [...]
  This series does not add hg support, but it does do all the
  refactoring that is needed to make it possible. With this series
  applied actually adding full-fledged hg support is a matter of adding
  the git-remote-hg file.
  The reason the git-remote-hg file is not included in this series is
  that while I have finished support for 'git clone hg::/path/to/hg' as
  well as 'git fetch hg::/path/to/hg' and 'git fetch hgremote',
  currently it does a full export on each run (that is, incremental
  fetch is not supported).
  Nevertheless, I think it is vital that this is included in the series
  before we do anything serious with it. I hope to have the
  git-remote-hg bit done tomorrow before I get on my airplane, but no
  promises there.
  [...]


That sounds great, really! :)

-Juergen

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Thu Oct 29 19:24:11 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 22:24:11 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] bug
In-Reply-To: <20091027204650.GB28221@linux-m68k.org>
References: <20091027175621.GA26200@linux-m68k.org> <20091027193216.GN23287@jg>
	<20091027195758.GA27795@linux-m68k.org> <20091027200548.GO23287@jg>
	<20091027202621.GA28221@linux-m68k.org> <20091027204258.GP23287@jg>
	<20091027204650.GB28221@linux-m68k.org>
Message-ID: <20091030022411.GF31304@jg>

On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 09:46:50PM +0100, Richard Zidlicky wrote:
>On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 04:42:58PM -0400, Kris Maglione wrote:
>
>>> Is there any way to debug it live? I have the window still around as in
>>> the picture, just opened the javascript error console (c-s-j) so in
>>> theory I should be able to enter a few js commands and figure it out?
>>
>> Maybe. I'll have to think about it. If you open a new window (<C-n>),
>> does it have the same problem?
>
>the new window works perfectly, the old is unchangend.

Have you tried duplicating this with a clean profile yet?

-- 
Kris Maglione

Haskell is faster than C++, more concise than Perl, more regular than
Python, more flexible than Ruby, more typeful than C#, more robust
than Java, and has absolutely nothing in common with PHP.
	--Autrijus Tang


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sat Oct 31 00:15:56 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 03:15:56 -0400
Subject: [Vimperator] Updating vimperator.sf.net (was: Moving from
 Google Sites to Sourceforge)
In-Reply-To: <20091023030246.GZ23287@jg>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg>
 <20091023030246.GZ23287@jg>
Message-ID: <20091031071556.GA6976@jg>

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 11:02:46PM -0400, Kris Maglione wrote:
>Then, you can just clone the whole thing:
>
>    hg clone ssh://USER at shell.sf.net/vimperator vimperator.org

I've made some changes which should simplify the whole process. 
First, you can now pull over http, so to clone the whole repo, 
do something like:

     hg clone http://vimperator.sourceforge.net/hg vimperator.org

After that, edit vimperator.org/.hg/hgrc to look something like 
this:

     [paths]
     default = http://vimperator.sourceforge.net/hg
     default-push = ssh://maglione-k at shell.sf.net/vimperator

Then you can pull over http without having to ssh in and create 
a session. You can also subscribe to the atom feed at,

     http://sf.vimperator.org/hg/atom-log

When you want to edit something, first run this on a terminal to 
create a session:

     ssh -t <user>,vimperator at shell.sf.net create

then make your changes and push. You may want to install 4suite 
locally so you can make sure everything builds correctly. Some 
pages now use EXSLT extensions unsupported by Firefox.

To add news entries, just edit news.xml. All you have to do to 
create an entry is highlight the comment at the top as 
instructed and run !sh, which should fill in the date and your 
email as required (if $EMAIL is set). Yes, unfortunately, it's 
in XML. I may change it later, but it was the most practical 
solution at the time. The content is in plain, run of the mill 
XHTML.  You can add a fold to entries by adding a <fold/> tag. 
The text above the fold will be the summary, and show up in the 
feeds and on the homepage. The fold will be replaced with a link 
to view the entire article.

There are a few sample entries there, including Doug's 2.2 
release announcement.

-- 
Kris Maglione

Simple things should be simple.  Complex things should be possible.
	--Alan Kay


From rz at linux-m68k.org  Sat Oct 31 02:52:36 2009
From: rz at linux-m68k.org (Richard Zidlicky)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 10:52:36 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] bug
In-Reply-To: <20091030022411.GF31304@jg>
References: <20091027175621.GA26200@linux-m68k.org> <20091027193216.GN23287@jg>
	<20091027195758.GA27795@linux-m68k.org> <20091027200548.GO23287@jg>
	<20091027202621.GA28221@linux-m68k.org> <20091027204258.GP23287@jg>
	<20091027204650.GB28221@linux-m68k.org> <20091030022411.GF31304@jg>
Message-ID: <20091031095236.GA21454@linux-m68k.org>

On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 10:24:11PM -0400, Kris Maglione wrote:

>
> Have you tried duplicating this with a clean profile yet?

yes. It does not occur frequently enough to be able to tell for sure after
a brief test. 

At the moment I can not switch to a new profile permanently because first I need 
to figure out how to migrate all needed bits by hand.

Richard

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sat Oct 31 05:51:09 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 13:51:09 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] new web design
Message-ID: <4AEC32BD.4060405@vimperator.org>

Hi,

now that Kris has done such awesome things to the new website backend,
it's time to polish the design as well. Now that we have full control
over the page, I think it is the best to just reuse an existing
template done by artists which is probably better than us developers
can do.

I think the oswd.org page has some wonderful and (mostly) free
designs, one of them which I really like is Fruitopia, here
already slightly adapted for vimperator labs:

http://666kb.com/i/bdpifiblt3f29g0ru.png

I like the fresh design and the colors, but your opinions may vary.

The biggest problem with this design is probably that the top
menu "Vimperator", "Muttator", etc. only has place for about 6-7
entries, but we should maybe combine "developer info" and
"nightly builds" anyway. We could also move those entries back
to one unified menu instead of the top and the right menu,
but I think the distinction makes sense, especially since
the sub menus are actually a TOC anyway for our pages.

Anyway, what do you think about this design? Or do you have
other templates which would work well with the vimperator
labs homepage?

--
Martin