From teramako at gmail.com  Sun Nov  1 20:43:43 2009
From: teramako at gmail.com (M.Terada)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 13:43:43 +0900
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH]Fix: build system
Message-ID: <6eebba490911012043uf479068ra4a7351ad1bce4d1@mail.gmail.com>

Hi developers

I'm afraid you don't notice the build system have been borken since
help system is replace to XSLTransform from asciidoc.
because the build system does'nt archives *.xsl files.

Please review the attached patches

Best regards.
----
teramako
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From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sun Nov  1 20:54:17 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 23:54:17 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH]Fix: build system
In-Reply-To: <6eebba490911012043uf479068ra4a7351ad1bce4d1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6eebba490911012043uf479068ra4a7351ad1bce4d1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091102045417.GB6976@jg>

On Mon, Nov 02, 2009 at 01:43:43PM +0900, M.Terada wrote:
>Hi developers
>
>I'm afraid you don't notice the build system have been borken since
>help system is replace to XSLTransform from asciidoc.
>because the build system does'nt archives *.xsl files.
>
>Please review the attached patches

Thanks, but don't you have commit privileges? It's correct, 
please feel free to commit it.

-- 
Kris Maglione

"That girl is one of the least unintelligent organic lifeforms it has
ever been my profound lack of pleasure to have been unable to have
avoided meeting"
	--Marvin


From teramako at gmail.com  Sun Nov  1 21:15:43 2009
From: teramako at gmail.com (M.Terada)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 14:15:43 +0900
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH]Fix: build system
In-Reply-To: <20091102045417.GB6976@jg>
References: <6eebba490911012043uf479068ra4a7351ad1bce4d1@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091102045417.GB6976@jg>
Message-ID: <6eebba490911012115w46c7f5b0sf64cc24dd2e691ff@mail.gmail.com>

2009/11/2 Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com>:
> Thanks, but don't you have commit privileges? It's correct, please feel free
> to commit it.
No, I don't the privilege... :(

----
teramako

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sun Nov  1 21:23:20 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 00:23:20 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH]Fix: build system
In-Reply-To: <6eebba490911012115w46c7f5b0sf64cc24dd2e691ff@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6eebba490911012043uf479068ra4a7351ad1bce4d1@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091102045417.GB6976@jg>
	<6eebba490911012115w46c7f5b0sf64cc24dd2e691ff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091102052320.GC6976@jg>

On Mon, Nov 02, 2009 at 02:15:43PM +0900, M.Terada wrote:
>2009/11/2 Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com>:
>> Thanks, but don't you have commit privileges? It's correct, please feel free
>> to commit it.
>
>No, I don't the privilege... :(

Oh, sorry. I'd add you, but I'm unfortunately a bit impotent in 
that regard.

-- 
Kris Maglione

Are you quite sure that all those bells and whistles, all those
wonderful facilities of your so called powerful programming languages,
belong to the solution set rather than the problem set?
	--Edsger W. Dijkstra


From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Mon Nov  2 01:03:53 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 10:03:53 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH]Fix: build system
In-Reply-To: <20091102052320.GC6976@jg>
References: <6eebba490911012043uf479068ra4a7351ad1bce4d1@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091102045417.GB6976@jg>
	<6eebba490911012115w46c7f5b0sf64cc24dd2e691ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091102052320.GC6976@jg>
Message-ID: <aaae92100911020103y3be38902h74696505952efc1c@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 6:23 AM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
> Oh, sorry. I'd add you, but I'm unfortunately a bit impotent in that regard.

I added you and Doug to the project owners section of google code now. I didn't
do it before for legal issues, but now I think/hope that such an entry at google
code doesn't change anything in this regard anyway.

And I added you, teramako, to the project commiters. Please go ahead, and
push the fix. Thanks!

From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Fri Nov  6 09:50:54 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 18:50:54 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] Updating vimperator.sf.net (was: Moving from
	Google Sites to Sourceforge)
In-Reply-To: <20091031071556.GA6976@jg>
References: <20091022050159.GE23287@jg> <20091023030246.GZ23287@jg>
	<20091031071556.GA6976@jg>
Message-ID: <aaae92100911060950n137118e9v4132954c0c730314@mail.gmail.com>

The new instructions to work on the homepage work fine, and it's
really easy now to follow the progress on the homepage without the
need to create this chroot shell.

I do, however, get the following warning on a hg push:
The push still worked fine, but I just want to make sure that this
warning really is non-important (or maybe even easily fixable):
----------------

maxauthority at stubi-pc:~/projects/vimperator.org$ hg push
pushing to ssh://maxauthority at shell.sf.net/vimperator
searching for changes
remote: adding changesets
remote: adding manifests
remote: adding file changes
remote: added 1 changesets with 1 changes to 1 files
remote: hg update -C tip
remote: 1 files updated, 0 files merged, 0 files removed, 0 files unresolved
remote: make all
remote: make[1]: Entering directory `/home/groups/v/vi/vimperator'
remote: set -e; \
remote: 	for f in htdocs; do \
remote: 		make -C $f all; \
remote: 	done;
remote: make[2]: Entering directory `/home/groups/v/vi/vimperator/htdocs'
remote: set -e; { \
remote: 		echo '<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>'; \
remote: 		echo '<!DOCTYPE html'; \
remote: 		echo '     PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"'; \
remote: 	     	echo '
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">'; \
remote: 		4xslt coding.xml xsl/xhtml.xsl; \
remote: 	} >coding.xhtml
remote: FtWarning: Catalog resource
(file:///home/users/m/ma/maglione-k/share/4Suite/default.cat)
disabled: Error retrieving resource
'file:///home/users/m/ma/maglione-k/share/4Suite/default.cat
(/home/users/m/ma/maglione-k/share/4Suite/default.cat)': [Errno 2] No
such file or directory:
'/home/users/m/ma/maglione-k/share/4Suite/default.cat'
remote: rm coding.shtml 2>/dev/null || true
remote: grep -q '<!--#' coding.xhtml && cp coding.xhtml coding.shtml || true
remote: set -e; { \
remote: 		echo '<!DOCTYPE html'; \
remote: 		echo '     PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"'; \
remote: 	     	echo '
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">'; \
remote: 		4xslt coding.xml xsl/html.xsl; \
remote: 	} >coding.html
remote: FtWarning: Catalog resource
(file:///home/users/m/ma/maglione-k/share/4Suite/default.cat)
disabled: Error retrieving resource
'file:///home/users/m/ma/maglione-k/share/4Suite/default.cat
(/home/users/m/ma/maglione-k/share/4Suite/default.cat)': [Errno 2] No
such file or directory:
'/home/users/m/ma/maglione-k/share/4Suite/default.cat'
remote: grep -q '<!--#' coding.html && chmod +x coding.html || true
remote: for f in news/*.xml; do \
remote: 		make ${f%.xml}.html ${f%.xml}.xhtml; \
remote: 	done;
remote: make[3]: Entering directory `/home/groups/v/vi/vimperator/htdocs'
remote: make[3]: `news/2009-10-28T09:52-vimperator-2.2-released.html'
is up to date.
remote: make[3]: `news/2009-10-28T09:52-vimperator-2.2-released.xhtml'
is up to date.
remote: make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/groups/v/vi/vimperator/htdocs'
remote: make[3]: Entering directory `/home/groups/v/vi/vimperator/htdocs'
remote: make[3]: `news/2009-10-28T18:58-my-cool-entry.html' is up to date.
remote: make[3]: `news/2009-10-28T18:58-my-cool-entry.xhtml' is up to date.
remote: make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/groups/v/vi/vimperator/htdocs'
remote: make[3]: Entering directory `/home/groups/v/vi/vimperator/htdocs'
remote: make[3]: `news/2009-10-28T19:23-my-uncool-entry.html' is up to date.
remote: make[3]: `news/2009-10-28T19:23-my-uncool-entry.xhtml' is up to date.
remote: make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/groups/v/vi/vimperator/htdocs'
remote: make[3]: Entering directory `/home/groups/v/vi/vimperator/htdocs'
remote: make[3]: `news/atom.html' is up to date.
remote: make[3]: `news/atom.xhtml' is up to date.
remote: make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/groups/v/vi/vimperator/htdocs'
remote: make[3]: Entering directory `/home/groups/v/vi/vimperator/htdocs'
remote: make[3]: `news/rss.html' is up to date.
remote: make[3]: `news/rss.xhtml' is up to date.
remote: make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/groups/v/vi/vimperator/htdocs'
remote: make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/groups/v/vi/vimperator/htdocs'
remote: make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/groups/v/vi/vimperator'

From nemolivier at gmail.com  Fri Nov  6 13:14:27 2009
From: nemolivier at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Olivier_Gu=C3=A9ry?=)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 22:14:27 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] feedsomekeys_2 and vimperator 2.2
Message-ID: <5c2c86e70911061314o2e65a441n4e2388fc6b6b2e34@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I can?t have feedsomekeys_2 to work with vimperator 2.2
I report the problem here :
http://code.google.com/p/vimperator-labs/issues/detail?id=13&q=label%3Aproject-vimperator%20label%3Atype-plugin&colspec=ID%20Summary%20Project%20Type%20Status%20Priority%20Stars%20Owner
But it don?t even see Teramako as the owner of the  issue. Is it the
right place??

Olivier.

-- 
[Message tap? sur un clavier B?po : http://www.bepo.fr ]
http://soubresauts.net

From endflow.net at gmail.com  Fri Nov  6 18:05:57 2009
From: endflow.net at gmail.com (Yuki KODAMA)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 11:05:57 +0900
Subject: [Vimperator] feedsomekeys_2 and vimperator 2.2
In-Reply-To: <5c2c86e70911061314o2e65a441n4e2388fc6b6b2e34@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5c2c86e70911061314o2e65a441n4e2388fc6b6b2e34@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <28ba5bda0911061805q3c5f3a3bmc7edc5fff12fba0c@mail.gmail.com>

2009/11/7 Olivier Gu?ry <nemolivier at gmail.com>:
> Hello,
>
> I can?t have feedsomekeys_2 to work with vimperator 2.2
> I report the problem here :
> http://code.google.com/p/vimperator-labs/issues/detail?id=13&q=label%3Aproject-vimperator%20label%3Atype-plugin&colspec=ID%20Summary%20Project%20Type%20Status%20Priority%20Stars%20Owner
> But it don?t even see Teramako as the owner of the ?issue. Is it the
> right place??
>
> Olivier.

It's already fixed by teramako and works well for me.
Please try latest version from:
Changeset: http://coderepos.org/share/browser/lang/javascript/vimperator-plugins/trunk/feedSomeKeys_2.js?rev=35806
Download link: http://coderepos.org/share/export/35806/lang/javascript/vimperator-plugins/trunk/feedSomeKeys_2.js

-- 
Yuki KODAMA

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Fri Nov  6 20:26:42 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 23:26:42 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] new web design
In-Reply-To: <4AEC32BD.4060405@vimperator.org>
References: <4AEC32BD.4060405@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091107042642.GH7628@jg>

On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 01:51:09PM +0100, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>I think the oswd.org page has some wonderful and (mostly) free
>designs, one of them which I really like is Fruitopia, here
>already slightly adapted for vimperator labs:
>
>http://666kb.com/i/bdpifiblt3f29g0ru.png
>
>I like the fresh design and the colors, but your opinions may vary.
>
>The biggest problem with this design is probably that the top
>menu "Vimperator", "Muttator", etc. only has place for about 6-7
>entries, but we should maybe combine "developer info" and
>"nightly builds" anyway. We could also move those entries back
>to one unified menu instead of the top and the right menu,
>but I think the distinction makes sense, especially since
>the sub menus are actually a TOC anyway for our pages.
>
>Anyway, what do you think about this design? Or do you have
>other templates which would work well with the vimperator
>labs homepage?

Sorry, I was hoping someone else would reply so I wouldn't have 
to, but I guess Doug is busy moving or something. My personal 
preference would be for something wholly different from 
(possibly, but not necessarilly, entirely antithetical to) that 
template. Which is to say, no fruit or garish graphics, minimal 
use of orange, and utter abstention from any pretense toward a 
hint of lime green. It might be alright for some bubbly fop's 
personal blog, or perhaps for a small produce market that can't 
afford a  designer, but not so much for a piece (any piece) of 
software. I'm honestly not a fan of templates, in general. They 
all tend to have a canned look to them (and generally 
unsatisfying porportions), and in our case, I don't think we 
lose at all from having a simple developer-designed layout that 
reflects Vimperator. I think Vim's website is actually a good 
model, though I'd be terribly loathe to copy or imitate it. I 
even have a vague inclination to provide a color scheme switcher 
to preview the common Vimperator schemes on the web site 
itself...

There are a few minimilastic sorts of templates out there that I 
don't mind terribly much. free-css-templates.com, despite the 
laclustre (ignore my spelling, I'm having a fit of Britishness) 
name, has some decent ones. Some tolerable ones:

     http://www.free-css-templates.com/templates/GreenSquareShadow/unzipped/
     http://www.free-css-templates.com/templates/Minimalistic/unzipped/ 
         (although the porportions are aweful and need to be 
	altered, and I'd prefer something simpler/less graphical)

Also, this one isn't bad, although the CSS is aweful and it uses 
way to many images for solid color fields:

     http://templates.arcsin.se/demo/cerulean-elegance-website-template/index.html

At any rate, I'm fairly happy with my layout, despite some 
coloring and minor layout issues. At any rate, I'd have been 
happy to put it up two weeks ago when it was already better than 
the one currently up at Google Sites. It's admittedly a quick 
and dirty adaptation of the Google design that I'd be happy to 
see replaced, but I think it's certainly passable.

-- 
Kris Maglione

Life isn't about finding yourself.  Life is about creating yourself.
	--George Bernard Shaw


From nemolivier at gmail.com  Sat Nov  7 00:56:45 2009
From: nemolivier at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Olivier_Gu=C3=A9ry?=)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 09:56:45 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] feedsomekeys_2 and vimperator 2.2
In-Reply-To: <28ba5bda0911061805q3c5f3a3bmc7edc5fff12fba0c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5c2c86e70911061314o2e65a441n4e2388fc6b6b2e34@mail.gmail.com>
	<28ba5bda0911061805q3c5f3a3bmc7edc5fff12fba0c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5c2c86e70911070056h3c088f9egadc066f41780bc9e@mail.gmail.com>

2009/11/7 Yuki KODAMA <endflow.net at gmail.com>:
> 2009/11/7 Olivier Gu?ry <nemolivier at gmail.com>:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I can?t have feedsomekeys_2 to work with vimperator 2.2
>> I report the problem here :
>> http://code.google.com/p/vimperator-labs/issues/detail?id=13&q=label%3Aproject-vimperator%20label%3Atype-plugin&colspec=ID%20Summary%20Project%20Type%20Status%20Priority%20Stars%20Owner
>> But it don?t even see Teramako as the owner of the ?issue. Is it the
>> right place??
>>
>> Olivier.
>
> It's already fixed by teramako and works well for me.
> Please try latest version from:
> Changeset: http://coderepos.org/share/browser/lang/javascript/vimperator-plugins/trunk/feedSomeKeys_2.js?rev=35806
> Download link: http://coderepos.org/share/export/35806/lang/javascript/vimperator-plugins/trunk/feedSomeKeys_2.js


Thank?s work great?! I had it to the google code page.

Olivier.
-- 
[Message tap? sur un clavier B?po : http://www.bepo.fr ]
http://soubresauts.net

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sat Nov  7 05:44:38 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2009 14:44:38 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] new web design
In-Reply-To: <20091107042642.GH7628@jg>
References: <4AEC32BD.4060405@vimperator.org> <20091107042642.GH7628@jg>
Message-ID: <4AF579C6.5040503@vimperator.org>

On 11/07/2009 05:26 AM, Kris Maglione wrote:

> Sorry, I was hoping someone else would reply so I wouldn't have 
> to, but I guess Doug is busy moving or something. My personal 
> preference would be for something wholly different from 
> (possibly, but not necessarilly, entirely antithetical to) that 
> template. Which is to say, no fruit or garish graphics, minimal 
> use of orange, and utter abstention from any pretense toward a 
> hint of lime green. It might be alright for some bubbly fop's 
> personal blog, or perhaps for a small produce market that can't 
> afford a  designer, but not so much for a piece (any piece) of 
> software.


Well, take a look at the current sf.vimperator.org/vimperator,
it looks different (probably worse ;)) to this theme, and if
it's just the colors - that's the easiest to change but probably
always a matter of preference.

And yes, it surely would have been easier, if ANYONE would have
given feedback to the proposal - but it's still not too late,
please go to sf.vimperator.org and test the homepage and then
tell us if you think it looks good, or suggest improvements
or even tell us, that it looks terrible - any input is good.

> I think Vim's website is actually a good model


I always have thought Vim's website is so much stuck in the 90s.
And by the way - especially geared at Doug: Even that has google ads
now ;)

> There are a few minimilastic sorts of templates out there that I 
> don't mind terribly much. free-css-templates.com, despite the 
> laclustre (ignore my spelling, I'm having a fit of Britishness) 
> name, has some decent ones. Some tolerable ones:
> 
>      http://www.free-css-templates.com/templates/GreenSquareShadow/unzipped/


This is the only one from your 3 suggestions which I'd say "wow", very nice.
It has a slight bug that the shadow around the green menu is different from
the rest of the drop shadow. Also the divider line to the right box is
too small - it should go more to the bottom.
Apart from that, if you change that green to orange (and black/orange has
traditionally been the colors from vimperator labs and I don't see how
black/green would be more "professional"), I don't think the page is so
much different to the one currently at sf.vimperator.org/vimperator.
If you really want, you can change the website to this theme (still prefer the
orange over the green and you can provide an alternate "green" css
style sheet), but with a few tweaks to the existing theme,
I think our page wouldn't look much different. And reusing that theme
would make the copyright disclaimer at the bottom even bigger according
to the license.

If you still dislike not the proposal but how the current sf.vimp.org
pages look like, feel free to suggest more themes, I am sure we can
find one, which pleases both.
But please tell me if you either want to implement that GreenSquareShadow
theme, or suggest other themes, so we can go live with the new page in
a week or so.

> Also, this one isn't bad, although the CSS is aweful and it uses 
> way to many images for solid color fields:
> 
>      http://templates.arcsin.se/demo/cerulean-elegance-website-template/index.html


Well, mostly the fields are not solid but have very slight
gradients or other gimmicks which are often subtle but make
the look of a page more professional and not totally flat.

> At any rate, I'm fairly happy with my layout, despite some 
> coloring and minor layout issues. At any rate, I'd have been 
> happy to put it up two weeks ago when it was already better than 
> the one currently up at Google Sites. It's admittedly a quick 
> and dirty adaptation of the Google design that I'd be happy to 
> see replaced, but I think it's certainly passable.

That layout had the problem of too much visual noise by putting
anything in a (framed) box. And again, with all the freedom
of our own site, I am sure there are lots of better themes than
that google sites one.


From stepnem at gmail.com  Sat Nov  7 07:18:20 2009
From: stepnem at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?xaB0xJtww6FuIE7Em21lYw==?=)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 16:18:20 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] new web design
In-Reply-To: <4AF579C6.5040503@vimperator.org>
References: <4AEC32BD.4060405@vimperator.org> <20091107042642.GH7628@jg>
	<4AF579C6.5040503@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091107151820.GA4117@headley>

On Sat, Nov 07, 2009 at 02:44:38PM +0100, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
> And yes, it surely would have been easier, if ANYONE would have
> given feedback to the proposal - but it's still not too late,
> please go to sf.vimperator.org and test the homepage and then
> tell us if you think it looks good, or suggest improvements
> or even tell us, that it looks terrible - any input is good.
> 
I'd love to help, but as usual, I don't care too much about the site's
appearance, if only because I use a global css that makes everything
alike (ie. as I like it -- http://imagebin.org/70821 ;).
               
What struck me as a bit weird, though, when I viewed the original page,
were not the colours, but the amount of free space around that
relatively small rectangle holding the actual content.

And unrelated, I noticed a small bug -- all the
sf.vimperator.org/{muttator,vimperator,xulmus} pages have this same
sentence above the download button:

       Of course, as we believe in free, open source software,
    only support us financially if you really like Muttator
    and the money doesn't hurt?otherwise just use it,
    recommend it, and like it :)

I suppose 'Muttator' should be 'Vimperator' and 'Xulmus' on the
respective pages.

 ?t?p?n

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sat Nov  7 09:30:43 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2009 18:30:43 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] new web design
In-Reply-To: <20091107151820.GA4117@headley>
References: <4AEC32BD.4060405@vimperator.org>
	<20091107042642.GH7628@jg>	<4AF579C6.5040503@vimperator.org>
	<20091107151820.GA4117@headley>
Message-ID: <4AF5AEC3.5060702@vimperator.org>

On 11/07/2009 04:18 PM, ?t?p?n N?mec wrote:

> I'd love to help, but as usual, I don't care too much about the site's
> appearance, if only because I use a global css that makes everything
> alike (ie. as I like it -- http://imagebin.org/70821 ;).


Nice stylesheet :) But too geeky again, dark-on-light is so much
easier on the eyes.

> What struck me as a bit weird, though, when I viewed the original page,

> were not the colours, but the amount of free space around that
> relatively small rectangle holding the actual content.


Well, Kris and I agree that too wide lines are really bad for readability.
It's always hard to make the page readable AND looking good layout-wise.
With the new sf.vimperator.org I hope it's better but don't expect that
the text will get 100% width because that's really hard to read.


> I suppose 'Muttator' should be 'Vimperator' and 'Xulmus' on the
> respective pages.


Right, I noticed that myself, just forgot to fix that yet. Thanks.

PS: It seems it's still hard to get really talented
graphics/design people on board. The only apps which make a decent
attempt to look good are mostly the ones with a huge funding behind
from Ubuntu/RedHat/Mozilla/Gnome etc. The ARE, however, lots of nice
icons or wallpapers out there so the problem is not that there are
no talented artists but it seems that it is hard to bring developers
and artists together.

                

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sat Nov  7 09:53:54 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 12:53:54 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] new web design
In-Reply-To: <4AF579C6.5040503@vimperator.org>
References: <4AEC32BD.4060405@vimperator.org> <20091107042642.GH7628@jg>
	<4AF579C6.5040503@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091107175354.GI7628@jg>

On Sat, Nov 07, 2009 at 02:44:38PM +0100, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>> I think Vim's website is actually a good model
>
>I always have thought Vim's website is so much stuck in the 90s.
>And by the way - especially geared at Doug: Even that has google ads
>now ;)

Martin, I swear to whatever deity pleases you, that if you 
mention those fucking ads one more time, I'm going to cut off 
your testicles and shove them down your throat.

-- 
Kris Maglione

I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is
indispensable.
	--Dwight Eisenhower


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sat Nov  7 12:45:31 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 15:45:31 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] new web design
In-Reply-To: <4AF579C6.5040503@vimperator.org>
References: <4AEC32BD.4060405@vimperator.org> <20091107042642.GH7628@jg>
	<4AF579C6.5040503@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091107204531.GJ7628@jg>

On Sat, Nov 07, 2009 at 02:44:38PM +0100, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>On 11/07/2009 05:26 AM, Kris Maglione wrote:
>
>> Sorry, I was hoping someone else would reply so I wouldn't have
>> to, but I guess Doug is busy moving or something. My personal
>> preference would be for something wholly different from
>> (possibly, but not necessarilly, entirely antithetical to) that
>> template. Which is to say, no fruit or garish graphics, minimal
>> use of orange, and utter abstention from any pretense toward a
>> hint of lime green. It might be alright for some bubbly fop's
>> personal blog, or perhaps for a small produce market that can't
>> afford a  designer, but not so much for a piece (any piece) of
>> software.
>
>
>Well, take a look at the current sf.vimperator.org/vimperator,
>it looks different (probably worse ;)) to this theme, and if
>it's just the colors - that's the easiest to change but probably
>always a matter of preference.
>
>And yes, it surely would have been easier, if ANYONE would have
>given feedback to the proposal - but it's still not too late,
>please go to sf.vimperator.org and test the homepage and then
>tell us if you think it looks good, or suggest improvements
>or even tell us, that it looks terrible - any input is good.
>
>> I think Vim's website is actually a good model
>
>
>I always have thought Vim's website is so much stuck in the 90s.
>And by the way - especially geared at Doug: Even that has google ads
>now ;)
>
>> There are a few minimilastic sorts of templates out there that I
>> don't mind terribly much. free-css-templates.com, despite the
>> laclustre (ignore my spelling, I'm having a fit of Britishness)
>> name, has some decent ones. Some tolerable ones:
>>
>>      http://www.free-css-templates.com/templates/GreenSquareShadow/unzipped/
>
>
>This is the only one from your 3 suggestions which I'd say "wow", very nice.
>It has a slight bug that the shadow around the green menu is different from
>the rest of the drop shadow. Also the divider line to the right box is
>too small - it should go more to the bottom.
>Apart from that, if you change that green to orange (and black/orange has
>traditionally been the colors from vimperator labs and I don't see how
>black/green would be more "professional"), I don't think the page is so
>much different to the one currently at sf.vimperator.org/vimperator.
>If you really want, you can change the website to this theme (still prefer the
>orange over the green and you can provide an alternate "green" css
>style sheet), but with a few tweaks to the existing theme,
>I think our page wouldn't look much different. And reusing that theme
>would make the copyright disclaimer at the bottom even bigger according
>to the license.
>
>If you still dislike not the proposal but how the current sf.vimp.org
>pages look like, feel free to suggest more themes, I am sure we can
>find one, which pleases both.
>But please tell me if you either want to implement that GreenSquareShadow
>theme, or suggest other themes, so we can go live with the new page in
>a week or so.
>
>> Also, this one isn't bad, although the CSS is aweful and it uses
>> way to many images for solid color fields:
>>
>>      http://templates.arcsin.se/demo/cerulean-elegance-website-template/index.html
>
>
>Well, mostly the fields are not solid but have very slight
>gradients or other gimmicks which are often subtle but make
>the look of a page more professional and not totally flat.

Well, in that case, they're not designed for colorblind people, 
because I can barely make out the texture even with xmag. 
Regardless, in that case it should still set a CSS background 
color so the page is actually presentable while the images are 
loading, and, as far as I can tell, they needn't be more than 
1?2 or 2?2 images in most cases.

-- 
Kris Maglione

The more I learn, the more I realize what little I know.
	--Albert Einstein


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sun Nov  8 00:20:22 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 03:20:22 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH] Refactoring
Message-ID: <20091108082022.GK7628@jg>

The main changes:

     Standard module format. All modules are explicitly declared 
     as modules, they're created via a constructor and 
     instantiated automatically. They're dependency aware. They 
     stringify properly.

     Classes are declared the same way (rather like Structs 
     already were). They also stringify properly. Plus, each 
     instance has a rather nifty closure member that closes all 
     of its methods around 'this', so you can pass them to map, 
     forEach, setTimeout, etc. Modules are themselves classes, 
     with a special metaclass, as it were.

     Doug Crockford is dead, metaphorically speaking. 
     Closure-based classes just don't fit into any of the common 
     JavaScript frameworks, and they're inefficient and 
     confusing. Now, all class and module members are accessed 
     explicitly via 'this', which makes it very clear that 
     they're class members and not (e.g.) local variables, 
     without anything nasty like Hungarian notation.

     Strictly one module per file. Classes that belong to a 
     module live in the same file.

     For the moment, there are quite a few utility functions 
     sitting in base.c, because my class implementation used 
     them, and I haven't had the time or inclination to sort them 
     out. I plan to reconcile them with the current mess that is 
     the util namespace.

     Probably a few other things.

There might be a few glitches, as the last merge was rather 
nasty and mq really doesn't handle merges as well as hg does 
with explicit branches.

Given all of the shuffling around involved, the patch amounts to 
a quarter MB bzipped, close to 2MB uncompressed, so it's not 
attached:

     http://www.filefactory.com/file/a2fh292/n/liberator_diff_bz2

-- 
Kris Maglione

If you think your management doesn't know what it's doing or that your
organisation turns out low-quality software crap that embarrasses you,
then leave.
	--Edward Yourdon


From dpb at driftaway.org  Sun Nov  8 00:52:11 2009
From: dpb at driftaway.org (Daniel Bainton)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 10:52:11 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH] Refactoring
In-Reply-To: <20091108082022.GK7628@jg>
References: <20091108082022.GK7628@jg>
Message-ID: <dd9711230911080052g2390f661j5da63f07f2c2986d@mail.gmail.com>

2009/11/8 Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com>:
> The main changes:
>
> ? ?Standard module format. All modules are explicitly declared ? ?as
> modules, they're created via a constructor and ? ?instantiated
> automatically. They're dependency aware. They ? ?stringify properly.
>
> ? ?Classes are declared the same way (rather like Structs ? ?already were).
> They also stringify properly. Plus, each ? ?instance has a rather nifty
> closure member that closes all ? ?of its methods around 'this', so you can
> pass them to map, ? ?forEach, setTimeout, etc. Modules are themselves
> classes, ? ?with a special metaclass, as it were.
>
> ? ?Doug Crockford is dead, metaphorically speaking. ? ?Closure-based classes
> just don't fit into any of the common ? ?JavaScript frameworks, and they're
> inefficient and ? ?confusing. Now, all class and module members are accessed
> ? ?explicitly via 'this', which makes it very clear that ? ?they're class
> members and not (e.g.) local variables, ? ?without anything nasty like
> Hungarian notation.
>
> ? ?Strictly one module per file. Classes that belong to a ? ?module live in
> the same file.
>
> ? ?For the moment, there are quite a few utility functions ? ?sitting in
> base.c, because my class implementation used ? ?them, and I haven't had the
> time or inclination to sort them ? ?out. I plan to reconcile them with the
> current mess that is ? ?the util namespace.
>
> ? ?Probably a few other things.
>
> There might be a few glitches, as the last merge was rather nasty and mq
> really doesn't handle merges as well as hg does with explicit branches.
>
> Given all of the shuffling around involved, the patch amounts to a quarter
> MB bzipped, close to 2MB uncompressed, so it's not attached:
>
> ? ?http://www.filefactory.com/file/a2fh292/n/liberator_diff_bz2
>
> --
> Kris Maglione
>
> If you think your management doesn't know what it's doing or that your
> organisation turns out low-quality software crap that embarrasses you,
> then leave.
> ? ? ? ?--Edward Yourdon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Vimperator mailing list
> Vimperator at mozdev.org
> https://www.mozdev.org/mailman/listinfo/vimperator
>

You forgot to mention the renaming of Vimperator to Pentadactyl in
your mail. Is this a fork?

And don't you really have any sane place to put files into rather than
that idiotic File Factory?

--
Daniel

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sun Nov  8 00:59:00 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 03:59:00 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH] Refactoring
In-Reply-To: <dd9711230911080052g2390f661j5da63f07f2c2986d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091108082022.GK7628@jg>
	<dd9711230911080052g2390f661j5da63f07f2c2986d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091108085900.GL7628@jg>

On Sun, Nov 08, 2009 at 10:52:11AM +0200, Daniel Bainton wrote:
>2009/11/8 Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com>:
>> The main changes:
>>
>> ? ?Standard module format. All modules are explicitly declared ? ?as
>> modules, they're created via a constructor and ? ?instantiated
>> automatically. They're dependency aware. They ? ?stringify properly.
>>
>> ? ?Classes are declared the same way (rather like Structs ? ?already were).
>> They also stringify properly. Plus, each ? ?instance has a rather nifty
>> closure member that closes all ? ?of its methods around 'this', so you can
>> pass them to map, ? ?forEach, setTimeout, etc. Modules are themselves
>> classes, ? ?with a special metaclass, as it were.
>>
>> ? ?Doug Crockford is dead, metaphorically speaking. ? ?Closure-based classes
>> just don't fit into any of the common ? ?JavaScript frameworks, and they're
>> inefficient and ? ?confusing. Now, all class and module members are accessed
>> ? ?explicitly via 'this', which makes it very clear that ? ?they're class
>> members and not (e.g.) local variables, ? ?without anything nasty like
>> Hungarian notation.
>>
>> ? ?Strictly one module per file. Classes that belong to a ? ?module live in
>> the same file.
>>
>> ? ?For the moment, there are quite a few utility functions ? ?sitting in
>> base.c, because my class implementation used ? ?them, and I haven't had the
>> time or inclination to sort them ? ?out. I plan to reconcile them with the
>> current mess that is ? ?the util namespace.
>>
>> ? ?Probably a few other things.
>>
>> There might be a few glitches, as the last merge was rather nasty and mq
>> really doesn't handle merges as well as hg does with explicit branches.
>>
>> Given all of the shuffling around involved, the patch amounts to a quarter
>> MB bzipped, close to 2MB uncompressed, so it's not attached:
>>
>> ? ?http://www.filefactory.com/file/a2fh292/n/liberator_diff_bz2
>>
>> --
>> Kris Maglione
>>
>> If you think your management doesn't know what it's doing or that your
>> organisation turns out low-quality software crap that embarrasses you,
>> then leave.
>> ? ? ? ?--Edward Yourdon
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Vimperator mailing list
>> Vimperator at mozdev.org
>> https://www.mozdev.org/mailman/listinfo/vimperator
>>
>
>You forgot to mention the renaming of Vimperator to Pentadactyl in
>your mail. Is this a fork?
>
>And don't you really have any sane place to put files into rather than
>that idiotic File Factory?

No, nothing personal. And if it were a fork, I would have called 
it a for, not a patch. Given that it's a rather major change, 
though, I decided to give it a different working name (and as 
I've been working on two branches at once and trying to keep 
them in sync, it's rather easier to tell them apart that way). 
The only difference is a simple global search and replace.

-- 
Kris Maglione

An organisation that treats its programmers as morons will soon have
programmers that are willing and able to act like morons only.
	--Bjarne Stroustrup


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sun Nov  8 01:07:19 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 04:07:19 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH] Refactoring
In-Reply-To: <dd9711230911080052g2390f661j5da63f07f2c2986d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091108082022.GK7628@jg>
	<dd9711230911080052g2390f661j5da63f07f2c2986d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091108090719.GM7628@jg>

On Sun, Nov 08, 2009 at 10:52:11AM +0200, Daniel Bainton wrote:
>And don't you really have any sane place to put files into rather than
>that idiotic File Factory?

Actually, I suppose I don, in one or two places. If you insist:

     http://maglione-k.users.sourceforge.net/liberator.diff.bz2

but expect throttling.

-- 
Kris Maglione

Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted
was once eccentric.
	--Bertrand Russell


From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sun Nov  8 03:15:03 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 12:15:03 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH] Refactoring
In-Reply-To: <20091108082022.GK7628@jg>
References: <20091108082022.GK7628@jg>
Message-ID: <4AF6A837.3080603@vimperator.org>

On 11/08/2009 09:20 AM, Kris Maglione wrote:

> The main changes:

<snip>

Very nice. And yes, it's quite difficult to review
that patch as it's really huge, so I might have overseen
a few things.


The ones I noticed:

1.) You forgot:

* Changed foo\n{ to foo {

While I prefer the former style, it's the people who write code
who decide so this new style is ok for me (and probably Doug) as long
as it's consistent - I have seen a few places in the patch which have
the "old" style. If we change all that it should also be updated in HACKING.


2.) I still think const Foo = new Module("foo", ...) makes the code
clearer than omitting the "new".


3.) Do you want us to test the patch to get regressions,
or just gather info, what we like/dislike about it by looking over it?

4.) When do you think the patch would be ready to be commited (with changing
the names back to liberator/vimperator/... of course)? I can assume it's
better to not commit much in the meantime as merging to this new codebase will
be quite a pain.

5.) <off-topic>: Any plans to do serious front-end work on the new vimperator
homepage? Otherwise I'll just fix the few remaining issues and make sf.vimp.org
the new "official" homepage by updating the CNAME records.

--
Martin

From rogutes at googlemail.com  Sun Nov  8 05:05:04 2009
From: rogutes at googlemail.com (=?utf-8?Q?Rogut=C4=97s?= Sparnuotos)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 15:05:04 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] new web design
In-Reply-To: <4AF579C6.5040503@vimperator.org>
References: <4AEC32BD.4060405@vimperator.org> <20091107042642.GH7628@jg>
	<4AF579C6.5040503@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091108130504.GA5476@urvas>

Martin Stubenschrott (2009-11-07 14:44):
> And yes, it surely would have been easier, if ANYONE would have
> given feedback to the proposal - but it's still not too late,
> please go to sf.vimperator.org and test the homepage and then
> tell us if you think it looks good, or suggest improvements
> or even tell us, that it looks terrible - any input is good.

Looking back at the amount of discussions that revolved around website
hosting and design, it didn't look like users should chime in.

Anyway, it seems that you've identified the same shortcomings of Google
Sites that I have...

The design of http://sf.vimperator.org looks ok, much better than the
proposed one with green fruits and better than the very pale
http://www.vimperator.org. On the other hand, http://sf.vimperator.org
feels very confined (and not because of the fixed line width - fixing it
is good - but because of the rather small centered content box with
a 2px black border around). I've tried to fight the confinement with
Gimp: http://imagebin.org/index.php?mode=image&id=70935

But note that I'm not talking about http://sf.vimperator.org/home, which
has something strange going on with the navigation menu.

-- 
--  Rogut?s Sparnuotos

From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Sun Nov  8 06:15:11 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 15:15:11 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] new web design
In-Reply-To: <20091108130504.GA5476@urvas>
References: <4AEC32BD.4060405@vimperator.org> <20091107042642.GH7628@jg>
	<4AF579C6.5040503@vimperator.org> <20091108130504.GA5476@urvas>
Message-ID: <aaae92100911080615w19fb2757o77594b8ade7a399e@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the input!

> I've tried to fight the confinement with
> Gimp: http://imagebin.org/index.php?mode=image&id=70935

Would also look fine to me, but the orange menubar should definitely
display with 100% width.

Your mockup also doesn't show how the sidebar with the section links
would look like with your design proposal if the page stretches over
the whole width. I rather like the light gray background for it with
the dotted divider line, no idea if that would also look good with
your proposal.

> But note that I'm not talking about http://sf.vimperator.org/home, which
> has something strange going on with the navigation menu.

I also noticed that the "About" menu entry on the current
sf.vimperator.org is hanging lower than the other items, but that
should be fixable.

If we stay with the current "boxed" design, we should probably change
the background color - maybe some dark gray?

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sun Nov  8 13:34:02 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 16:34:02 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] new web design
In-Reply-To: <aaae92100911080615w19fb2757o77594b8ade7a399e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AEC32BD.4060405@vimperator.org> <20091107042642.GH7628@jg>
	<4AF579C6.5040503@vimperator.org> <20091108130504.GA5476@urvas>
	<aaae92100911080615w19fb2757o77594b8ade7a399e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091108213402.GO7628@jg>

On Sun, Nov 08, 2009 at 03:15:11PM +0100, Stubenschrott, Martin wrote:
>Thanks for the input!
>
>> I've tried to fight the confinement with
>> Gimp: http://imagebin.org/index.php?mode=image&id=70935
>
>Would also look fine to me, but the orange menubar should definitely
>display with 100% width.

I prefer the current layout.

>If we stay with the current "boxed" design, we should probably change
>the background color - maybe some dark gray?

colorschemedesigner.com.

-- 
Kris Maglione

The world is a tragedy to those who feel, but a comedy to those who
think.
	--Horace Walpole


From dpb at driftaway.org  Sun Nov  8 23:14:03 2009
From: dpb at driftaway.org (Daniel Bainton)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 09:14:03 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] new web design
In-Reply-To: <20091108130504.GA5476@urvas>
References: <4AEC32BD.4060405@vimperator.org> <20091107042642.GH7628@jg> 
	<4AF579C6.5040503@vimperator.org> <20091108130504.GA5476@urvas>
Message-ID: <dd9711230911082314l1325c825ibc452614fdaa9c5b@mail.gmail.com>

2009/11/8 Rogut?s Sparnuotos <rogutes at googlemail.com>:
> The design of http://sf.vimperator.org looks ok, much better than the
> proposed one with green fruits and better than the very pale
> http://www.vimperator.org.

Weird, the colours on sf.vimperator.org look quite ugly IMHO. I quite
much like the design on the current www.vimperator.org site. The green
fruits site was absolutely horrible, I would have banned Vimperator
from my use if that would have become the design for vimperator.org.

--
Daniel

From dougkearns at gmail.com  Mon Nov  9 02:45:03 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 21:45:03 +1100
Subject: [Vimperator] new web design
In-Reply-To: <dd9711230911082314l1325c825ibc452614fdaa9c5b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AEC32BD.4060405@vimperator.org> <20091107042642.GH7628@jg> 
	<4AF579C6.5040503@vimperator.org> <20091108130504.GA5476@urvas> 
	<dd9711230911082314l1325c825ibc452614fdaa9c5b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <644fc65e0911090245g1ff70a09r22c5e829a5f07e98@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Daniel Bainton <dpb at driftaway.org> wrote:

> Weird, the colours on sf.vimperator.org look quite ugly IMHO.

True, but they look quite good on my mate's Super Duke
(http://www.sportrider.com/bikes/2007/146_0702_2007_ktm_super_duke_990/photo_02.html).
I'm assuming it's an Austrian thing...

Doug

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Mon Nov  9 03:06:28 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 06:06:28 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] new web design
In-Reply-To: <644fc65e0911090245g1ff70a09r22c5e829a5f07e98@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AEC32BD.4060405@vimperator.org> <20091107042642.GH7628@jg>
	<4AF579C6.5040503@vimperator.org> <20091108130504.GA5476@urvas>
	<dd9711230911082314l1325c825ibc452614fdaa9c5b@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0911090245g1ff70a09r22c5e829a5f07e98@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091109105551.GA10245@jg>

On Mon, Nov 09, 2009 at 09:45:03PM +1100, Doug Kearns wrote:
>On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Daniel Bainton <dpb at driftaway.org> wrote:
>
>> Weird, the colours on sf.vimperator.org look quite ugly IMHO.
>
>True, but they look quite good on my mate's Super Duke
>(http://www.sportrider.com/bikes/2007/146_0702_2007_ktm_super_duke_990/photo_02.html).
>I'm assuming it's an Austrian thing...

Well, there's something about crotch rockets and super cars that 
makes them look good in any color. There's even a Veyron with an 
orange interior (although I'm really tempted to hurt someone for 
defacing a work of art that way...).

-- 
Kris Maglione

It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education.
	--Albert Einstein


From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Mon Nov  9 03:56:17 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 12:56:17 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] new web design
In-Reply-To: <20091109105551.GA10245@jg>
References: <4AEC32BD.4060405@vimperator.org> <20091107042642.GH7628@jg>
	<4AF579C6.5040503@vimperator.org> <20091108130504.GA5476@urvas>
	<dd9711230911082314l1325c825ibc452614fdaa9c5b@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0911090245g1ff70a09r22c5e829a5f07e98@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091109105551.GA10245@jg>
Message-ID: <aaae92100911090356x47ae2e00g109d15e526f95570@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 12:06 PM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
>> (http://www.sportrider.com/bikes/2007/146_0702_2007_ktm_super_duke_990/photo_02.html).
>> I'm assuming it's an Austrian thing...

Hehe :) Yeah, I admit I like orange.

> Well, there's something about crotch rockets and super cars that makes them
> look good in any color. There's even a Veyron with an orange interior
> (although I'm really tempted to hurt someone for defacing a work of art that
> way...).

How true! Although the Veyron is just cool because it's so powerful, but
I wouldn't call it beautiful - but an orange Lamborghini Gallardo - awesome! :)

Anyway, since people seem to dislike the orange, please make suggestions
for a proper website colorscheme (in #xxxxxx format which I can try out).

Needed colors:
1.) For the menubar (probably also a foreground color for the selected item).
2.) For the links
3.) For :ex commands (currently green)
4.) For the NOTE: text color
5.) For the background OUTSIDE the main div.
6.) Maybe even for <h1> <h2> headers. Currently they are black, but I don't
see a reason why they wouldn't look good in a different color.

I think the other colors (black for the top/bottom header, and light gray for
the side menu should be ok for everyone.

And the colors should still be colors and not gray tones - preferably "warm"
ones like red, orange, yellow and should fit together well.

And while I really like Kris' input, I am not sure, if he is the best
one to judge or
due to his color blindness. Or is that so weak that it doesn't matter for this
regard?

ANYONE who thinks has a good sense for colors can participate - preferably
even people who have a color calibrated monitor.

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Mon Nov  9 04:28:46 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 07:28:46 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] new web design
In-Reply-To: <aaae92100911090356x47ae2e00g109d15e526f95570@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AEC32BD.4060405@vimperator.org> <20091107042642.GH7628@jg>
	<4AF579C6.5040503@vimperator.org> <20091108130504.GA5476@urvas>
	<dd9711230911082314l1325c825ibc452614fdaa9c5b@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0911090245g1ff70a09r22c5e829a5f07e98@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091109105551.GA10245@jg>
	<aaae92100911090356x47ae2e00g109d15e526f95570@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091109122846.GB10245@jg>

On Mon, Nov 09, 2009 at 12:56:17PM +0100, Stubenschrott, Martin wrote:
>On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 12:06 PM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> (http://www.sportrider.com/bikes/2007/146_0702_2007_ktm_super_duke_990/photo_02.html).
>>> I'm assuming it's an Austrian thing...
>
>Hehe :) Yeah, I admit I like orange.
>
>> Well, there's something about crotch rockets and super cars that makes them
>> look good in any color. There's even a Veyron with an orange interior
>> (although I'm really tempted to hurt someone for defacing a work of art that
>> way...).
>
>How true! Although the Veyron is just cool because it's so powerful, but
>I wouldn't call it beautiful - but an orange Lamborghini Gallardo - awesome! :)

Are you kidding? The Veyron has to be one of the most beautiful 
cars ever built! Every detail is pure, unbridled esthetic and 
mechanical brilliance. Nothing superfluous, nothing hidden, no 
absurd attention grabbing gimmicks, just pure, unadulterated 
aerodynamic perfection. Lamborghinis are for foppish playboys, 
as far as I'm concerned. Can you really tell me that that is not 
beautiful:

     http://www.bugatti.com/en/home/news.html?newsId=61&displayYears=2009,2007

>Anyway, since people seem to dislike the orange, please make suggestions
>for a proper website colorscheme (in #xxxxxx format which I can try out).
>
>Needed colors:
>1.) For the menubar (probably also a foreground color for the selected item).
>2.) For the links
>3.) For :ex commands (currently green)
>4.) For the NOTE: text color
>5.) For the background OUTSIDE the main div.
>6.) Maybe even for <h1> <h2> headers. Currently they are black, but I don't
>see a reason why they wouldn't look good in a different color.
>
>I think the other colors (black for the top/bottom header, and light gray for
>the side menu should be ok for everyone.
>
>And the colors should still be colors and not gray tones - preferably "warm"
>ones like red, orange, yellow and should fit together well.
>
>And while I really like Kris' input, I am not sure, if he is the best
>one to judge or
>due to his color blindness. Or is that so weak that it doesn't matter for this
>regard?
>
>ANYONE who thinks has a good sense for colors can participate - preferably
>even people who have a color calibrated monitor.

I just want to make something clear: Unless it's *incredibly* 
basic, no one who is not a professional designer should be 
designing a color scheme. Not for a public web page, anyway. 
It's a lot more intricate than most people would imagine and 
it's very easy to get *very* wrong. Find a pre-designed theme 
that you like (they abound on the internet), or use something 
from colorschemedesigner.com (which is still a gamble). I should 
probably mention that one of my sisters is a professional 
designer, another a design student, and my father is an artist, 
so I have some vague appreciation of the difficulty of these 
things.

At any rate, the header background will have to go unless you do 
use something like colorschemedesigner to design a scheme around 
it. I've tried it, and the results are not great.

My preference, for the record, is for muted earth tones.

     http://www.colorschemer.com/schemes/viewscheme.php?id=6297
     http://www.colorschemer.com/schemes/viewscheme.php?id=6527
     http://www.colorschemer.com/schemes/viewscheme.php?id=5568

Anyway, I suggest that you find a scheme that you like and then 
we can discuss how we're going to apply it (which is more than 
half the battle).

-- 
Kris Maglione

i've wondered whether Linux sysfs should be called syphilis
	--forsyth


From dougkearns at gmail.com  Mon Nov  9 04:50:53 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 23:50:53 +1100
Subject: [Vimperator] new web design
In-Reply-To: <20091109122846.GB10245@jg>
References: <4AEC32BD.4060405@vimperator.org> <20091107042642.GH7628@jg> 
	<4AF579C6.5040503@vimperator.org> <20091108130504.GA5476@urvas> 
	<dd9711230911082314l1325c825ibc452614fdaa9c5b@mail.gmail.com> 
	<644fc65e0911090245g1ff70a09r22c5e829a5f07e98@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20091109105551.GA10245@jg>
	<aaae92100911090356x47ae2e00g109d15e526f95570@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20091109122846.GB10245@jg>
Message-ID: <644fc65e0911090450u3151c0f5r2178ef2dfdb87428@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 11:28 PM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
> I just want to make something clear: Unless it's *incredibly* basic, no one
> who is not a professional designer should be designing a color scheme. Not
> for a public web page, anyway. It's a lot more intricate than most people
> would imagine and it's very easy to get *very* wrong.

Yes, which is why I've got little to say on the topic.  At best I can
recognise what I don't like but I'm not going to even try coming up with
a design.

> Find a pre-designed
> theme that you like (they abound on the internet), or use something from
> colorschemedesigner.com (which is still a gamble). I should probably mention
> that one of my sisters is a professional designer, another a design student,
> and my father is an artist, so I have some vague appreciation of the
> difficulty of these things.

Are any of them looking for a little extra cash?  ;-)

Doug

From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Mon Nov  9 04:59:53 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 13:59:53 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] new web design
In-Reply-To: <20091109122846.GB10245@jg>
References: <4AEC32BD.4060405@vimperator.org> <20091107042642.GH7628@jg>
	<4AF579C6.5040503@vimperator.org> <20091108130504.GA5476@urvas>
	<dd9711230911082314l1325c825ibc452614fdaa9c5b@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0911090245g1ff70a09r22c5e829a5f07e98@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091109105551.GA10245@jg>
	<aaae92100911090356x47ae2e00g109d15e526f95570@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091109122846.GB10245@jg>
Message-ID: <aaae92100911090459q6ae4055fo4d9e31dfdbdc30f2@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
> Are you kidding? The Veyron has to be one of the most beautiful cars ever
> built! Every detail is pure, unbridled esthetic and mechanical brilliance.
> Nothing superfluous, nothing hidden, no absurd attention grabbing gimmicks,
> just pure, unadulterated aerodynamic perfection. Lamborghinis are for
> foppish playboys, as far as I'm concerned. Can you really tell me that that
> is not beautiful:
>
> ? ?http://www.bugatti.com/en/home/news.html?newsId=61&displayYears=2009,2007

For me: no. I am not saying it is ugly, but I still prefer the
"aggressiveness" of
the Lambo's design with the hard edges. Anyway, tastes do differ and it's nice
there are cars for everyone :) I am - however - actually pleased that
you do seem to like
(unnecessary but cool) sports cars - I thought you were much more of an
"alternative", "green" guy.

That's my currently most liked super car:
http://www.trendygadget.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/lamborghini_gallardo_lp560.jpg
http://www.waymotor.com/img/1358-Lamborghini-Gallardo-LP560-4.jpg

> At any rate, the header background will have to go unless you do use
> something like colorschemedesigner to design a scheme around it. I've tried
> it, and the results are not great.

The header background is terrible, yes. I thought about replacing it
with an abstract dark gray image/texture to the right of this header,
just underneath the search field to bring more life into the homepage,
but that again will probably fail.

> My preference, for the record, is for muted earth tones.
>
> ? ?http://www.colorschemer.com/schemes/viewscheme.php?id=6297
> ? ?http://www.colorschemer.com/schemes/viewscheme.php?id=6527
> ? ?http://www.colorschemer.com/schemes/viewscheme.php?id=5568
>
> Anyway, I suggest that you find a scheme that you like and then we can
> discuss how we're going to apply it (which is more than half the battle).

I LOVE that one: http://www.colorschemer.com/schemes/viewscheme.php?id=6527

It's awesome. Actually I do also like the glossiness/gradients of the
color boxes
which might make the page look more vivid and not so totally flat. But you
are probably even harder to persuade about such gimmicks ;)

colorscheme.com is a nice homepage, btw. Thanks for it.

Martin

From dpb at driftaway.org  Mon Nov  9 05:31:16 2009
From: dpb at driftaway.org (Daniel Bainton)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 15:31:16 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] new web design
In-Reply-To: <aaae92100911090459q6ae4055fo4d9e31dfdbdc30f2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AEC32BD.4060405@vimperator.org> <20091107042642.GH7628@jg> 
	<4AF579C6.5040503@vimperator.org> <20091108130504.GA5476@urvas> 
	<dd9711230911082314l1325c825ibc452614fdaa9c5b@mail.gmail.com> 
	<644fc65e0911090245g1ff70a09r22c5e829a5f07e98@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20091109105551.GA10245@jg>
	<aaae92100911090356x47ae2e00g109d15e526f95570@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20091109122846.GB10245@jg>
	<aaae92100911090459q6ae4055fo4d9e31dfdbdc30f2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dd9711230911090531k258906d4o616d17f1ce6d9de8@mail.gmail.com>

2009/11/9 Stubenschrott, Martin <maxauthority at vimperator.org>:
> I LOVE that one: http://www.colorschemer.com/schemes/viewscheme.php?id=6527
>
> It's awesome. Actually I do also like the glossiness/gradients of the
> color boxes
> which might make the page look more vivid and not so totally flat. But you
> are probably even harder to persuade about such gimmicks ;)

Ouch, that green hurts my eyes.


What's wrong with the current colours in www.vimperator.org? It's
quite nice and pleasant to read.

--
Daniel

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Mon Nov  9 05:33:23 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 08:33:23 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] new web design
In-Reply-To: <aaae92100911090459q6ae4055fo4d9e31dfdbdc30f2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AEC32BD.4060405@vimperator.org> <20091107042642.GH7628@jg>
	<4AF579C6.5040503@vimperator.org> <20091108130504.GA5476@urvas>
	<dd9711230911082314l1325c825ibc452614fdaa9c5b@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0911090245g1ff70a09r22c5e829a5f07e98@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091109105551.GA10245@jg>
	<aaae92100911090356x47ae2e00g109d15e526f95570@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091109122846.GB10245@jg>
	<aaae92100911090459q6ae4055fo4d9e31dfdbdc30f2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091109133323.GC10245@jg>

On Mon, Nov 09, 2009 at 01:59:53PM +0100, Stubenschrott, Martin wrote:
>For me: no. I am not saying it is ugly, but I still prefer the
>"aggressiveness" of
>the Lambo's design with the hard edges. Anyway, tastes do differ and it's nice
>there are cars for everyone :) I am - however - actually pleased that
>you do seem to like
>(unnecessary but cool) sports cars - I thought you were much more of an
>"alternative", "green" guy.

I "am", but you'd have to be some kind of sick pervert not to 
appreciate such things.

>I LOVE that one: http://www.colorschemer.com/schemes/viewscheme.php?id=6527
>
>It's awesome. Actually I do also like the glossiness/gradients of the
>color boxes
>which might make the page look more vivid and not so totally flat. But you
>are probably even harder to persuade about such gimmicks ;)

Be careful. I agree that it's a nice scheme, but it's not the 
kind of scheme that lends itself easily to a web page, 
especially for elements like links. Even a decent background for 
the body requires increasing the value of a color:

     http://666kb.com/i/bdynzfkwvznpsxg11.png

It's workable, but it definately requires modification, which 
is, again, perilous. Also, it clearly requires different color 
logo text (the white might work with a different header color, 
but the orange of the ?labs? doesn't match the page scheme at 
all).

-- 
Kris Maglione

Every program has (at least) two purposes: the one for which it was
written, and another for which it wasn't.
	--Alan J. Perlis


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Mon Nov  9 05:35:46 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 08:35:46 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] new web design
In-Reply-To: <644fc65e0911090450u3151c0f5r2178ef2dfdb87428@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AEC32BD.4060405@vimperator.org> <20091107042642.GH7628@jg>
	<4AF579C6.5040503@vimperator.org> <20091108130504.GA5476@urvas>
	<dd9711230911082314l1325c825ibc452614fdaa9c5b@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0911090245g1ff70a09r22c5e829a5f07e98@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091109105551.GA10245@jg>
	<aaae92100911090356x47ae2e00g109d15e526f95570@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091109122846.GB10245@jg>
	<644fc65e0911090450u3151c0f5r2178ef2dfdb87428@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091109133546.GD10245@jg>

On Mon, Nov 09, 2009 at 11:50:53PM +1100, Doug Kearns wrote:
>> Find a pre-designed
>> theme that you like (they abound on the internet), or use something from
>> colorschemedesigner.com (which is still a gamble). I should probably mention
>> that one of my sisters is a professional designer, another a design student,
>> and my father is an artist, so I have some vague appreciation of the
>> difficulty of these things.
>
>Are any of them looking for a little extra cash?  ;-)

Well, as it so happens, the only one I'd trust to ask a) charges 
a lot, and b) isn't talking to me. Not that she wouldn't do it 
for free if not for b. I could certainly ask the other, though.

-- 
Kris Maglione

UNIX is simple.  It just takes a genius to understand its simplicity.
	--Dennis Ritchie


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Mon Nov  9 05:38:32 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 08:38:32 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] new web design
In-Reply-To: <aaae92100911090459q6ae4055fo4d9e31dfdbdc30f2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AEC32BD.4060405@vimperator.org> <20091107042642.GH7628@jg>
	<4AF579C6.5040503@vimperator.org> <20091108130504.GA5476@urvas>
	<dd9711230911082314l1325c825ibc452614fdaa9c5b@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0911090245g1ff70a09r22c5e829a5f07e98@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091109105551.GA10245@jg>
	<aaae92100911090356x47ae2e00g109d15e526f95570@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091109122846.GB10245@jg>
	<aaae92100911090459q6ae4055fo4d9e31dfdbdc30f2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091109133832.GE10245@jg>

On Mon, Nov 09, 2009 at 01:59:53PM +0100, Stubenschrott, Martin wrote:
>Actually I do also like the glossiness/gradients of the color 
>boxes which might make the page look more vivid and not so 
>totally flat. But you are probably even harder to persuade 
>about such gimmicks ;)

I suppose that means you didn't notice the subtle bevel effect I 
added to the nav bar on the current site?

-- 
Kris Maglione

On the mountains of truth you can never climb in vain: either you will
reach a point higher up today, or you will be training your powers so
that you will be able to climb higher tomorrow.
	--Friedrich Nietzsche


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Mon Nov  9 05:44:18 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 08:44:18 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] new web design
In-Reply-To: <20091109133323.GC10245@jg>
References: <20091107042642.GH7628@jg> <4AF579C6.5040503@vimperator.org>
	<20091108130504.GA5476@urvas>
	<dd9711230911082314l1325c825ibc452614fdaa9c5b@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0911090245g1ff70a09r22c5e829a5f07e98@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091109105551.GA10245@jg>
	<aaae92100911090356x47ae2e00g109d15e526f95570@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091109122846.GB10245@jg>
	<aaae92100911090459q6ae4055fo4d9e31dfdbdc30f2@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091109133323.GC10245@jg>
Message-ID: <20091109134418.GF10245@jg>

On Mon, Nov 09, 2009 at 08:33:23AM -0500, Kris Maglione wrote:
>It's workable, but it definately requires modification, which is, 
>again, perilous. Also, it clearly requires different color logo text 
>(the white might work with a different header color, but the orange 
>of the ?labs? doesn't match the page scheme at all).

Oh, I should mention that, yes, I realize that the body 
background is putrid (which was kind of my point).

-- 
Kris Maglione

Correctness is clearly the prime quality.  If a system does not do
what it is supposed to do, then everything else about it matters
little.
	--Bertrand Meyer


From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Mon Nov  9 06:17:20 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 15:17:20 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] new web design
In-Reply-To: <dd9711230911090531k258906d4o616d17f1ce6d9de8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AEC32BD.4060405@vimperator.org> <4AF579C6.5040503@vimperator.org>
	<20091108130504.GA5476@urvas>
	<dd9711230911082314l1325c825ibc452614fdaa9c5b@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0911090245g1ff70a09r22c5e829a5f07e98@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091109105551.GA10245@jg>
	<aaae92100911090356x47ae2e00g109d15e526f95570@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091109122846.GB10245@jg>
	<aaae92100911090459q6ae4055fo4d9e31dfdbdc30f2@mail.gmail.com>
	<dd9711230911090531k258906d4o616d17f1ce6d9de8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aaae92100911090617r8fe7a4cvc6133b0f6f7a65a5@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 2:31 PM, Daniel Bainton <dpb at driftaway.org> wrote:
> 2009/11/9 Stubenschrott, Martin <maxauthority at vimperator.org>:
>> I LOVE that one: http://www.colorschemer.com/schemes/viewscheme.php?id=6527
>>
>> It's awesome. Actually I do also like the glossiness/gradients of the
>> color boxes
>> which might make the page look more vivid and not so totally flat. But you
>> are probably even harder to persuade about such gimmicks ;)
>
> Ouch, that green hurts my eyes.

1.) I like the green of the site itself, looks really fresh.
2.) You know that the link was about the passingStorm colorscheme,
not the webpage itself? And that doesn't include any green.

> What's wrong with the current colours in www.vimperator.org? It's
> quite nice and pleasant to read.

1.) It's boring
2.) I don't think the sf.vimp.org is much harder to read. If so, then we should
make the links a darker orange/red/purple.

What about:
http://ajaxian.com/archives/webos-developer-event-roundup

I think this page looks really good, and still has a similar color scheme like
I originally intended (orange/red/dark gray/black style...).

But passingStorm colors still look very nice, and we wouldn't have to use
all of them anyway, and could still use white/gray/black which does not clash
with other colors.

From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Mon Nov  9 06:25:42 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 15:25:42 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] new web design
In-Reply-To: <aaae92100911090617r8fe7a4cvc6133b0f6f7a65a5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AEC32BD.4060405@vimperator.org> <20091108130504.GA5476@urvas>
	<dd9711230911082314l1325c825ibc452614fdaa9c5b@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0911090245g1ff70a09r22c5e829a5f07e98@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091109105551.GA10245@jg>
	<aaae92100911090356x47ae2e00g109d15e526f95570@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091109122846.GB10245@jg>
	<aaae92100911090459q6ae4055fo4d9e31dfdbdc30f2@mail.gmail.com>
	<dd9711230911090531k258906d4o616d17f1ce6d9de8@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaae92100911090617r8fe7a4cvc6133b0f6f7a65a5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aaae92100911090625u208a3025j9aeee67d6d8a51e@mail.gmail.com>

Ah, and discussing style/design issues in a community where lots of
people even hate things like favicons, anti-aliased text or even
textures on title bars is quite hard :)

That said, I am pleasantly surprised that Kris really does care about
such issues, which I was not sure, since he keeps wmii still very
simple style wise.

Don't get me wrong: I still prefer simple layouts and don't plan to do
any marquee text or such things.
But one can do both: A simple layout, while still making it look
awesome with some shadows here, some subtle gradients there, etc.

Just look at the http://www.colorschemer.com homepage itself. Simple
in the design, but looking great due to perfect use of these little
gimmicks.

@Kris: I just put some words in quotes when I am not sure, if the word
is used in the same context in English. E.g. I was not sure if one can
say a person is alternative, as it's quite a 1:1 translation from
German which says "Er ist alternativ".

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Mon Nov  9 07:05:16 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 10:05:16 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH] Refactoring
In-Reply-To: <4AF6A837.3080603@vimperator.org>
References: <20091108082022.GK7628@jg>
 <4AF6A837.3080603@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091109150516.GH10245@jg>

On Sun, Nov 08, 2009 at 12:15:03PM +0100, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>Very nice. And yes, it's quite difficult to review
>that patch as it's really huge, so I might have overseen
>a few things.

*overlooked
>1.) You forgot:
>
>* Changed foo\n{ to foo {

Hm, I thought that was one of the first things I mentioned (but 
I grabbed the list post from my commit log entry).

>While I prefer the former style, it's the people who write code
>who decide so this new style is ok for me (and probably Doug) as long
>as it's consistent - I have seen a few places in the patch which have
>the "old" style. If we change all that it should also be updated in HACKING.

Well, mainly in the Muttator/Xulmus files I hadn't gotten to. 
Apparently my XPCOM component changes got clobbered in my last 
merge, but Doug fixed all of that.

>
>2.) I still think const Foo = new Module("foo", ...) makes the code
>clearer than omitting the "new".

Well, I'm personally not a fan of 'new' (and as I recall, 
neither is Doug). It's a silly bit of frivolous syntax that 
doesn't serve much purpose, in my opinion. No other dynamic 
language works that way (if anything, they have new or create 
class methods). Anyway, I have a very practical reason for not 
using it, namely that you can't do anything like new 
Class.apply(...), which is irritating and troublesome.

>3.) Do you want us to test the patch to get regressions,
>or just gather info, what we like/dislike about it by looking over it?

Both would be nice, but looking over the patch itself would be 
futile. It's too muddled.

>5.) <off-topic>: Any plans to do serious front-end work on the new vimperator
>homepage? Otherwise I'll just fix the few remaining issues and make sf.vimp.org
>the new "official" homepage by updating the CNAME records.

Other than changing the color scheme when we decide on it, no.

-- 
Kris Maglione

Intellectual laziness is punishable by brain death.  It is a natural
law.
	--Eric Naggum


From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Mon Nov  9 10:39:49 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 19:39:49 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] Muttator broken after refactoring
Message-ID: <4AF861F5.4070501@vimperator.org>

Hi,

is it known that the refactoring broke muttator? (and maybe Xulmus, but that might be a completely different matter, I just tried that with the latest 1.4 songbird and it might be a different issue, which is not part of the refactoring).


liberator: Loading script config.js: TypeError: setting a property that has only a getter
("tempFile")@chrome://liberator/content/base.js:165
foreach([object Generator],(function (k) {var get = src.__lookupGetter__(k), set = src.__lookupSetter__(k);if (!get && !set) {var v = src[k];targ[k] = v;if (targ.__proto__ && callable(v)) {v.superapply = function (self, args) {return targ.__proto__[k].apply(self, args);};v.supercall = function (self) {return v.superapply(self, Array.slice(arguments, 1));};}}if (get) {targ.__defineGetter__(k, get);}if (set) {targ.__defineSetter__(k, set);}}))@chrome://liberator/content/base.js:29
update([object Object],[object Object])@chrome://liberator/content/base.js:160
extend(config,ModuleBase,[object Object])@chrome://liberator/content/base.js:186
Class("config",ModuleBase,[object Object],[object Object])@chrome://liberator/content/base.js:230
Module("config",[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object])@chrome://liberator/content/modules.js:7
@chrome://liberator/content/config.js:168

liberator: Loading script liberator.js: ReferenceError: Cu is not defined
@chrome://liberator/content/liberator.js:9

liberator: Loading script events.js: ReferenceError: Ci is not defined
@chrome://liberator/content/events.js:1087

liberator: Loading script io.js: TypeError: plugins is undefined
@chrome://liberator/content/io.js:10


I must say, that i am using the latest nightly from Thunderbird, so it shouldn't be a problem of too old gecko.

And why "targ" for this function parameter anyway?

Actually this is a great example why I think abbreviations
in functions (and parameters) are a real bad habit. I thought
"targ" was a special type of "argument", until i saw other
functions using "targ" and "src" where I could guess that
src would stand for "source".

While I had no problems changing the if\n{ style to if {,
please don't use such abbreviations in public methods.
It doesn't help anybody, and if 2 characters are too much
too type, you should probably get a better editor or
learn to type faster. And that famous slogan
"Write once - read a hundred times" is the best argument
against abbreviations.


otherwise, the new refactoring looks quite good, thanks.

--
Martin

<scnr>
PS: If Doug reads this mail by chance, what happened to Stoner at the last
race? ;)
</scnr>

From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Tue Nov 10 04:28:42 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:28:42 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] new web design
In-Reply-To: <20091109133832.GE10245@jg>
References: <4AEC32BD.4060405@vimperator.org> <4AF579C6.5040503@vimperator.org>
	<20091108130504.GA5476@urvas>
	<dd9711230911082314l1325c825ibc452614fdaa9c5b@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0911090245g1ff70a09r22c5e829a5f07e98@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091109105551.GA10245@jg>
	<aaae92100911090356x47ae2e00g109d15e526f95570@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091109122846.GB10245@jg>
	<aaae92100911090459q6ae4055fo4d9e31dfdbdc30f2@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091109133832.GE10245@jg>
Message-ID: <aaae92100911100428m70fe38bfv80f5e06840c4fea0@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 2:38 PM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
> I suppose that means you didn't notice the subtle bevel effect I added to
> the nav bar on the current site?

I do notice it now, and it looks great. It's always hard to do such
things subtle
and not too obvious which totally ruins the looks.

Thanks.

From darwinskernel at gmail.com  Wed Nov 11 07:59:34 2009
From: darwinskernel at gmail.com (Charles Darwin)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 10:59:34 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] 'Follow hin:' doesn't work with nightly
Message-ID: <a9a51b1a0911110759y5b5b30cdldfd226000aa573f@mail.gmail.com>

http://pastebin.com/m80c1050

From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Wed Nov 11 08:15:06 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 17:15:06 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] 'Follow hin:' doesn't work with nightly
In-Reply-To: <a9a51b1a0911110759y5b5b30cdldfd226000aa573f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a9a51b1a0911110759y5b5b30cdldfd226000aa573f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aaae92100911110815m21bd9228yf791b119cec9ebf7@mail.gmail.com>

One should probably add, that he built his Firefox (3.7) without
debugger support.

Please give more information in future, not everybody is reading IRC.

From stepnem at gmail.com  Wed Nov 11 14:18:43 2009
From: stepnem at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?xaB0xJtww6FuIE7Em21lYw==?=)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:18:43 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] Issue #148
Message-ID: <20091111221842.GE12012@headley>

Kris,

are you sure your fix really works as expected?  I doubt that, because
when I tested exactly the same (as your fix) yesterday, I always had to
reload the page manually to display the actual content -- like I wrote
in the bug report.  That's why I filed it instead of pushing that
trivial fix in the first place.


   ?t?p?n

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Wed Nov 11 14:42:25 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:42:25 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] new web design
In-Reply-To: <4AEC32BD.4060405@vimperator.org>
References: <4AEC32BD.4060405@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <4AFB3DD1.7070100@vimperator.org>

Hi,

I updated the main color scheme, please reload
sf.vimperator.org (maybe reload twice, sometimes Firefox
did wrong caching for me).

The colors should be much less controversial now, and
I think they actually look quite nice.
Please note, that the actual link colors and the one
for the <code> sections are still not final.

The color scheme is based on:
http://www.colorschemer.com/schemes/viewscheme.php?id=6520

Please give feedback on possible refinements, or if I
should search a totally different color scheme again.

Thanks,

Martin

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Wed Nov 11 15:34:34 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 18:34:34 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] Issue #148
In-Reply-To: <20091111221842.GE12012@headley>
References: <20091111221842.GE12012@headley>
Message-ID: <20091111233434.GN10245@jg>

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 11:18:43PM +0100, ?t?p?n N?mec wrote:
>Kris,
>
>are you sure your fix really works as expected?  I doubt that, because
>when I tested exactly the same (as your fix) yesterday, I always had to
>reload the page manually to display the actual content -- like I wrote
>in the bug report.  That's why I filed it instead of pushing that
>trivial fix in the first place.

It works for me, so in that sense, I'm sure.

-- 
Kris Maglione

Beauty is more important in computing than anywhere else in technology
because software is so complicated.  Beauty is the ultimate defence
against complexity.
	--David Gelernter


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Wed Nov 11 15:35:23 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 18:35:23 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] new web design
In-Reply-To: <4AFB3DD1.7070100@vimperator.org>
References: <4AEC32BD.4060405@vimperator.org> <4AFB3DD1.7070100@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091111233523.GO10245@jg>

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 11:42:25PM +0100, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>The colors should be much less controversial now,

They're not.

-- 
Kris Maglione

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not
sure about the universe.
	--Albert Einstein


From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Wed Nov 11 16:09:30 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 01:09:30 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] new web design
In-Reply-To: <20091111233523.GO10245@jg>
References: <4AEC32BD.4060405@vimperator.org>
	<4AFB3DD1.7070100@vimperator.org> <20091111233523.GO10245@jg>
Message-ID: <4AFB523A.3030205@vimperator.org>

On 11/12/2009 12:35 AM, Kris Maglione wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 11:42:25PM +0100, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>>The colors should be much less controversial now,
> 
> They're not.


Then make your own color scheme (or anybody else). If you think, you can
do a color scheme which pleases everybody, go ahead.

If I like that color scheme (and since you seem to know how a good
one should look like I am sure I will like it!), I would also make
it the default color scheme.

The only requirement is, that it uses at least one vivid color (red,
green, orange, yellow, blue, ...) - so not just pure white/gray/black
or pale colors.

--
Martin

From stepnem at gmail.com  Thu Nov 12 01:21:24 2009
From: stepnem at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?xaB0xJtww6FuIE7Em21lYw==?=)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 10:21:24 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] Issue #148
In-Reply-To: <20091111233434.GN10245@jg>
References: <20091111221842.GE12012@headley>
 <20091111233434.GN10245@jg>
Message-ID: <20091112092124.GA18727@headley>

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 06:34:34PM -0500, Kris Maglione wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 11:18:43PM +0100, ?t?p?n N?mec wrote:
> >Kris,
> >
> >are you sure your fix really works as expected?  I doubt that, because
> >when I tested exactly the same (as your fix) yesterday, I always had to
> >reload the page manually to display the actual content -- like I wrote
> >in the bug report.  That's why I filed it instead of pushing that
> >trivial fix in the first place.
> 
> It works for me, so in that sense, I'm sure.
> 
Aha... yeah it works for me too, with a clean profile, sorry -- it
didn't seem plausible to me that it could be affected by other
extensions, so I only tested it with my regular setup originally.

Thanks


    ?t?p?n

From darwinskernel at gmail.com  Thu Nov 12 08:55:34 2009
From: darwinskernel at gmail.com (Charles Darwin)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 11:55:34 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] 'Follow hin:' doesn't work with nightly
In-Reply-To: <aaae92100911110815m21bd9228yf791b119cec9ebf7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a9a51b1a0911110759y5b5b30cdldfd226000aa573f@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaae92100911110815m21bd9228yf791b119cec9ebf7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a9a51b1a0911120855i59a60fc7hdfa83f5c25b774bf@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 11:15 AM, Stubenschrott, Martin
<maxauthority at vimperator.org> wrote:
> One should probably add, that he built his Firefox (3.7) without
> debugger support.
>
> Please give more information in future, not everybody is reading IRC.

Will do; although I thought ac_add_options --disable-debug would imply
the no debugger situation.

Charles

From tgevaert at gmail.com  Fri Nov 13 14:29:06 2009
From: tgevaert at gmail.com (tgevaert at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 17:29:06 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH] Check if all valid hints share an identical,
	unique href; if so, follow it
Message-ID: <1964652a74680659ea2b.1258151346@localhost.localdomain>

# HG changeset patch
# User Tim Gevaert tgevaert at gmail.com
# Date 1258151147 18000
# Node ID 1964652a74680659ea2bc2da5613b64c8978556e
# Parent  5ba9699431152ae108b52afaca196b405f7fe6af
Check if all valid hints share an identical, unique href; if so, follow it.

If a page contains links with both identical text and hrefs, one can not follow
one of them without pressing a number or <Return>.  This patch checks for such
occasions, and follows the href if followhints=0.  Behaviour does not change if
followhints > 0.

diff -r 5ba969943115 -r 1964652a7468 common/content/hints.js
--- a/common/content/hints.js	Fri Nov 13 16:12:50 2009 -0500
+++ b/common/content/hints.js	Fri Nov 13 17:25:47 2009 -0500
@@ -513,6 +513,15 @@
             this._processHints(true);
     },
 
+    // Check if all remaining valid hints share an identical href
+    _checkForUniqueDestination: function () {
+        let firstHref = this._validHints[0].getAttribute("href") || null;
+        for (let [, hint] in Iterator(this._validHints.slice(1)))
+            if (firstHref != hint.getAttribute("href"))
+                return false;
+        return true;
+    },
+
     /**
      * Handle user input.
      *
@@ -534,7 +543,7 @@
         this._hintString = commandline.command;
         this._updateStatusline();
         this._showHints();
-        if (this._validHints.length == 1)
+        if (this._validHints.length == 1 || this._checkForUniqueDestination())
             this._processHints(false);
     },
 
@@ -759,7 +768,7 @@
             liberator.beep();
             modes.reset();
         }
-        else if (this._validHints.length == 1)
+        else if (this._validHints.length == 1 || this._checkForUniqueDestination())
             this._processHints(false);
         else // Ticket #185
             this._checkUnique();

From stepnem at gmail.com  Fri Nov 13 15:59:30 2009
From: stepnem at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?xaB0xJtww6FuIE7Em21lYw==?=)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 00:59:30 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH] Check if all valid hints share an
 identical, unique href; if so, follow it
In-Reply-To: <1964652a74680659ea2b.1258151346@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1964652a74680659ea2b.1258151346@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20091113235930.GA28726@headley>

> +++ b/common/content/hints.js	Fri Nov 13 17:25:47 2009 -0500
> @@ -513,6 +513,15 @@
>              this._processHints(true);
>      },
>  
> +    // Check if all remaining valid hints share an identical href
> +    _checkForUniqueDestination: function () {
> +        let firstHref = this._validHints[0].getAttribute("href") || null;
> +        for (let [, hint] in Iterator(this._validHints.slice(1)))
> +            if (firstHref != hint.getAttribute("href"))
> +                return false;
> +        return true;
> +    },
> +
>      /**
>       * Handle user input.
>       *
> @@ -534,7 +543,7 @@
>          this._hintString = commandline.command;
>          this._updateStatusline();
>          this._showHints();
> -        if (this._validHints.length == 1)
> +        if (this._validHints.length == 1 || this._checkForUniqueDestination())
>              this._processHints(false);
>      },
>  
> @@ -759,7 +768,7 @@
>              liberator.beep();
>              modes.reset();
>          }
> -        else if (this._validHints.length == 1)
> +        else if (this._validHints.length == 1 || this._checkForUniqueDestination())
>              this._processHints(false);
>          else // Ticket #185
>              this._checkUnique();

IMNSHO _checkForUniqueDestination is a rather bad name for the function.
You are not checking for anything unique here; in a sense, right to the
contrary -- you're checking whether all the hints share one single common
destination (not mentioning the already existing _checkUnique). 

Other that that, I can't really test it, as I don't remember ever coping
with such a case or feeling need for such a functionality, but I'm sure
others will have more relevant opinion on the matter.

Regards,

?t?p?n

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Fri Nov 13 16:37:46 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 19:37:46 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH] Check if all valid hints share an
 identical, unique href; if so, follow it
In-Reply-To: <1964652a74680659ea2b.1258151346@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1964652a74680659ea2b.1258151346@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20091114003746.GR10245@jg>

Something like this has been proposed before, except to give 
hints with the same destination the same hint number. 
Unfortunately, it's infeasible because there's no way to track 
the possible JavaScript click handlers for the links (except 
those added with the onclick attribute or propertiy), which is 
simply unacceptable in this "Web 2.0" world.

-- 
Kris Maglione

i've wondered whether Linux sysfs should be called syphilis
	--forsyth


From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sat Nov 14 04:22:47 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 13:22:47 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] [PATCH] Check if all valid hints share an
 identical, unique href; if so, follow it
In-Reply-To: <20091114003746.GR10245@jg>
References: <1964652a74680659ea2b.1258151346@localhost.localdomain>
	<20091114003746.GR10245@jg>
Message-ID: <4AFEA117.7070404@vimperator.org>

On 11/14/2009 01:37 AM, Kris Maglione wrote:

> Something like this has been proposed before, except to give 
> hints with the same destination the same hint number. 
> Unfortunately, it's infeasible because there's no way to track 
> the possible JavaScript click handlers for the links (except 
> those added with the onclick attribute or propertiy), which is 
> simply unacceptable in this "Web 2.0" world.


Yes, that's the main problem, why I don't think this makes much
sense (not even as an option).

Otherwise, as a first patch this was very well written!
Hope to see more from you in future and you can understand
why we think that code is problematic.


From casey.manion at gmail.com  Sat Nov 14 17:10:09 2009
From: casey.manion at gmail.com (Casey Manion)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 17:10:09 -0800
Subject: [Vimperator] Search engines and keyword URLs
Message-ID: <66dd0ce40911141710r3c731480v4b6d187959b4ff4b@mail.gmail.com>

I was using the git repo but have "upgraded" to the 2.2 release
because the hg repo doesn't seem to work with my FF 3.5.5 for some
reason.

The problem I am having is that the keyword search doesn't work any
more: it just defaults to google every time.

Expected behavior:
 For example I have a keyword "php" set to
"http://www.php.net/search.php" and if I type in the address bar:
 php array_shift

 FF navigates to:
 http://us.php.net/manual/en/function.array-shift.php

Actual behavior:
 Typing in the command location:
 :open php array_shift

 FF navigates to:
 http://www.google.com/search?q=php+array_shift

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Casey

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sat Nov 14 17:22:51 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 20:22:51 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] Search engines and keyword URLs
In-Reply-To: <66dd0ce40911141710r3c731480v4b6d187959b4ff4b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <66dd0ce40911141710r3c731480v4b6d187959b4ff4b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091115012251.GA7296@jg>

On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 05:10:09PM -0800, Casey Manion wrote:
>I was using the git repo but have "upgraded" to the 2.2 release
>because the hg repo doesn't seem to work with my FF 3.5.5 for some
>reason.
>
>The problem I am having is that the keyword search doesn't work any
>more: it just defaults to google every time.
>
>Expected behavior:
> For example I have a keyword "php" set to
>"http://www.php.net/search.php" and if I type in the address bar:
> php array_shift
>
> FF navigates to:
> http://us.php.net/manual/en/function.array-shift.php
>
>Actual behavior:
> Typing in the command location:
> :open php array_shift
>
> FF navigates to:
> http://www.google.com/search?q=php+array_shift
>
>Any suggestions?

My best suggestion would be not to use delicious.

-- 
Kris Maglione

Haskell is faster than C++, more concise than Perl, more regular than
Python, more flexible than Ruby, more typeful than C#, more robust
than Java, and has absolutely nothing in common with PHP.
	--Autrijus Tang


From casey at manion.com  Sat Nov 14 17:40:18 2009
From: casey at manion.com (Casey Manion)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 17:40:18 -0800
Subject: [Vimperator] Search engines and keyword URLs
In-Reply-To: <20091115012251.GA7296@jg>
References: <66dd0ce40911141710r3c731480v4b6d187959b4ff4b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091115012251.GA7296@jg>
Message-ID: <66dd0ce40911141740p5d7db45coa5cb8737162ae05b@mail.gmail.com>

I disabled all addons except Vimperator and it still doesn't work correctly.

I don't have the delicious addon.

-Casey ?

On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 05:10:09PM -0800, Casey Manion wrote:
>>
>> I was using the git repo but have "upgraded" to the 2.2 release
>> because the hg repo doesn't seem to work with my FF 3.5.5 for some
>> reason.
>>
>> The problem I am having is that the keyword search doesn't work any
>> more: it just defaults to google every time.
>>
>> Expected behavior:
>> For example I have a keyword "php" set to
>> "http://www.php.net/search.php" and if I type in the address bar:
>> php array_shift
>>
>> FF navigates to:
>> http://us.php.net/manual/en/function.array-shift.php
>>
>> Actual behavior:
>> Typing in the command location:
>> :open php array_shift
>>
>> FF navigates to:
>> http://www.google.com/search?q=php+array_shift
>>
>> Any suggestions?
>
> My best suggestion would be not to use delicious.
>
> --
> Kris Maglione
>
> Haskell is faster than C++, more concise than Perl, more regular than
> Python, more flexible than Ruby, more typeful than C#, more robust
> than Java, and has absolutely nothing in common with PHP.
> ? ? ? ?--Autrijus Tang
>
> _______________________________________________
> Vimperator mailing list
> Vimperator at mozdev.org
> https://www.mozdev.org/mailman/listinfo/vimperator
>

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sat Nov 14 18:00:32 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 21:00:32 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] Search engines and keyword URLs
In-Reply-To: <66dd0ce40911141740p5d7db45coa5cb8737162ae05b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <66dd0ce40911141710r3c731480v4b6d187959b4ff4b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091115012251.GA7296@jg>
	<66dd0ce40911141740p5d7db45coa5cb8737162ae05b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091115020031.GB7296@jg>

On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 05:40:18PM -0800, Casey Manion wrote:
>I disabled all addons except Vimperator and it still doesn't work correctly.
>
>I don't have the delicious addon.

Ah, good, you have some sense after all. Can you post the output 
of the following?

:echo bookmarks.getSearchURL("php");
:echo bookmarks.getSearchURL("php foo");
:echo [b.slice() for (b in storage["bookmark-cache"]) if (/php/.test(b.keyword))];
:echo PlacesUtils.bookmarks.getURIForKeyword("php");
:echo window.getShortcutOrURI("php");
:echo window.getShortcutOrURI("php foo");

And, for good measure,

:echo window.getShortcutOrURI;

-- 
Kris Maglione

If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be
the process of putting them in.
	--Edsger W. Dijkstra


From dotancohen at gmail.com  Sun Nov 15 01:33:51 2009
From: dotancohen at gmail.com (Dotan Cohen)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 11:33:51 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Expanding input=select and selecting an item
Message-ID: <880dece00911150133t40c3b60x743704396d91c8e7@mail.gmail.com>

How does one expand input=select input fields, then select an item?
When I use the hit-a-hint functionality in Vimperator, the field
focuses and I must navigate it with the arrow keys. Thanks in advance.

-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sun Nov 15 02:36:13 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 11:36:13 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] jsdebugger
Message-ID: <4AFFD99D.90006@vimperator.org>

Hi,

I am bringing up this issue here, instead
of spread over a few google code comments.

I have tried the new :set jsdebugger and :set
nojsdebugger and see no difference at all.

So can't/shouldn't we just fallback to the
non-debugger code, if the service is either
not found not .isOn ?

It's just that adding options where there
is a better approach is adding to perceived
bloat in my opinion.

--
Martin

PS: :set seems a little broken, it shows
:set jsdebugger,nojsdebugger,jsd,nojsd
as a completion item.


From teramako at gmail.com  Sun Nov 15 03:04:08 2009
From: teramako at gmail.com (M.Terada)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 20:04:08 +0900
Subject: [Vimperator] jsdebugger
In-Reply-To: <4AFFD99D.90006@vimperator.org>
References: <4AFFD99D.90006@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <6eebba490911150304w2fc979f7t52c59a516cebff1c@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

2009/11/15 Martin Stubenschrott <stubenschrott at vimperator.org>:
> I am bringing up this issue here, instead
> of spread over a few google code comments.

see: http://code.google.com/p/vimperator-labs/source/detail?r=c4ee7cc05278e4ab0716ebc71f7159c77bcfc69b

2009/11/15 Martin Stubenschrott <stubenschrott at vimperator.org>:
> I have tried the new :set jsdebugger and :set
> nojsdebugger and see no difference at all.

Please try and compare the completions list of  ":echo content.<tab>"
or ":echo commands.<tab>" or ...
The list will be shown up more than 'jsdebugger' is off

Best regards.
----
teramako
http://vimperator.g.hatena.ne.jp/teramako/

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sun Nov 15 03:26:21 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 12:26:21 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] jsdebugger
In-Reply-To: <6eebba490911150304w2fc979f7t52c59a516cebff1c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AFFD99D.90006@vimperator.org>
	<6eebba490911150304w2fc979f7t52c59a516cebff1c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AFFE55D.1090607@vimperator.org>

On 11/15/2009 12:04 PM, M.Terada wrote:

> Please try and compare the completions list of  ":echo content.<tab>"
> or ":echo commands.<tab>" or ...
> The list will be shown up more than 'jsdebugger' is off


I see, but why would one want an option to NOT show
valid properties? :)

And the current completion output is a mess anyway,
we really need to do an (case-insensitive) sort on the
element names. The matching itself should probably be
case sensitive, so :echo lib<tab> does not show "Liberator"
but just "liberator" (at least for the non-substring matching).

Anyway, that's a non-related issue :)

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sun Nov 15 03:40:23 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 06:40:23 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] jsdebugger
In-Reply-To: <4AFFE55D.1090607@vimperator.org>
References: <4AFFD99D.90006@vimperator.org>
	<6eebba490911150304w2fc979f7t52c59a516cebff1c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AFFE55D.1090607@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091115114023.GC7296@jg>

On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 12:26:21PM +0100, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>On 11/15/2009 12:04 PM, M.Terada wrote:
>
>> Please try and compare the completions list of  ":echo content.<tab>"
>> or ":echo commands.<tab>" or ...
>> The list will be shown up more than 'jsdebugger' is off
>
>I see, but why would one want an option to NOT show
>valid properties? :)

One simply shouldn't presume to turn another's debugger on 
without prior consent.

>And the current completion output is a mess anyway,
>we really need to do an (case-insensitive) sort on the
>element names. The matching itself should probably be
>case sensitive, so :echo lib<tab> does not show "Liberator"
>but just "liberator" (at least for the non-substring matching).

Don't you keep abreast of your own project? The element names 
are sorted. The sorting is carefully constructed. Numbers are 
sorted numerically, constants are unsorted, everything else is 
sorted case sensitively (as is the standard case on Unix, and 
sensibly so, in my opinion). Case matching is configurable via 
'wildcase' as it has been for some time. The default is 
"smartcase", meaning that capital letters trigger case sensitive 
matching, but matching is otherwise case insensitive.

-- 
Kris Maglione

Real Programmers don't believe in schedules.  Planners make up
schedules.  Managers "firm up" schedules.  Frightened coders strive to
meet schedules.  Real Programmers ignore schedules.


From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sun Nov 15 04:03:09 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 13:03:09 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] jsdebugger
In-Reply-To: <20091115114023.GC7296@jg>
References: <4AFFD99D.90006@vimperator.org>	<6eebba490911150304w2fc979f7t52c59a516cebff1c@mail.gmail.com>	<4AFFE55D.1090607@vimperator.org>
	<20091115114023.GC7296@jg>
Message-ID: <4AFFEDFD.6060608@vimperator.org>

On 11/15/2009 12:40 PM, Kris Maglione wrote:

> One simply shouldn't presume to turn another's debugger on 
> without prior consent.


That's a bullshit argument, sorry. Not just because "jsd"
is on by default (which makes sense, as it provides good
features). But mainly, because if you don't trust Mozilla's
engineers, you may not use Firefox. We run other's software
every time, and we do use other's libraries all the time.

 
> Don't you keep abreast of your own project? The element names 
> are sorted. The sorting is carefully constructed. Numbers are 
> sorted numerically, constants are unsorted, everything else is 
> sorted case sensitively (as is the standard case on Unix, and 
> sensibly so, in my opinion).


I have to admit, the problem was that I didn't have "sort" in
my wildoptions, now they are sorted properly apart that sorting
really should be case sensitive. And because you mention Unix,
probably it's because GNU is not Unix, but my "ls" sorts files
also case insenstive, any file browser which I have tried does
it, every IntelliSense completion system does it (even vim's).
Case sensitivity is fine for file names and a few other things,
but for sorting, it really is just plain stupid. If you searched
your favorite dictionary, would you search for "Monday" behind
"zoo"? No.

Is there any reason to really have the "sort" thing in wildoptions?
I'd love to get rid off that, as the elements should be presented
in a sensible way by default, and we should rename :set wildoption=auto
to :set [no]autocompletions and make it the default for the
upcoming vimperator (which should be 3.0 anyway, given the vast
amount of internal changes).

> Case matching is configurable via 
> 'wildcase' as it has been for some time. The default is 
> "smartcase", meaning that capital letters trigger case sensitive 
> matching, but matching is otherwise case insensitive.


'wildcase' is another terrible option which should be removed or
at least not followed for special cases.
Not even vim has it, but more importantly,
Vimperator completion system is so much more
complex, that a single option isn't usually as good as common
sense. E.g. I guess nobody proposes that urls and titles should
only be matched case sensitive for :open, but anybody who uses
an IntelliSense like system is used to (because it makes sense)
to case sensitive completion. Also options like this limit the
possibilities how Vimperator can help the user. E.g. for direct
matches I think it only makes sense to do case sensitive matching,
but for the "substrings" section below, case insensitive matching
does make sense because the later is mostly used for exploring apis,
not for really completing known names.



From conrad.irwin at googlemail.com  Sun Nov 15 03:55:35 2009
From: conrad.irwin at googlemail.com (Conrad Irwin)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 11:55:35 +0000
Subject: [Vimperator] jsdebugger
In-Reply-To: <20091115114023.GC7296@jg>
References: <4AFFD99D.90006@vimperator.org>	<6eebba490911150304w2fc979f7t52c59a516cebff1c@mail.gmail.com>	<4AFFE55D.1090607@vimperator.org>
	<20091115114023.GC7296@jg>
Message-ID: <4AFFEC37.1040907@gmail.com>

> 
> Don't you keep abreast of your own project? The element names are
> sorted. The sorting is carefully constructed. Numbers are sorted
> numerically, constants are unsorted, everything else is sorted case
> sensitively (as is the standard case on Unix, and sensibly so, in my
> opinion). Case matching is configurable via 'wildcase' as it has been
> for some time. The default is "smartcase", meaning that capital letters
> trigger case sensitive matching, but matching is otherwise case
> insensitive.
> 

Only if you add sort to wildoptions - for cases when there are few
problems with performance (i.e. javascript, and probably filenames) this
should be the default - there is no advantage to not sorting. (For
:open, disabling it provides a very noticeable speed improvement, so
it's nice to have that option).

Conrad

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sun Nov 15 04:06:28 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 13:06:28 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] jsdebugger
In-Reply-To: <4AFFEC37.1040907@gmail.com>
References: <4AFFD99D.90006@vimperator.org>	<6eebba490911150304w2fc979f7t52c59a516cebff1c@mail.gmail.com>	<4AFFE55D.1090607@vimperator.org>	<20091115114023.GC7296@jg>
	<4AFFEC37.1040907@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AFFEEC4.1020607@vimperator.org>

On 11/15/2009 12:55 PM, Conrad Irwin wrote:

> Only if you add sort to wildoptions - for cases when there are few
> problems with performance (i.e. javascript, and probably filenames) this
> should be the default - there is no advantage to not sorting. (For
> :open, disabling it provides a very noticeable speed improvement, so
> it's nice to have that option).


As you said, sorting makes sense for some options, and not for some others.
That's why this wildoptions=sort sucks, as it can only be a on/off switch.

We should decide on a per command basis, whether sorting is good/fast
enough or not.

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sun Nov 15 04:20:55 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 07:20:55 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] jsdebugger
In-Reply-To: <4AFFEDFD.6060608@vimperator.org>
References: <4AFFD99D.90006@vimperator.org>
	<6eebba490911150304w2fc979f7t52c59a516cebff1c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AFFE55D.1090607@vimperator.org> <20091115114023.GC7296@jg>
	<4AFFEDFD.6060608@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091115121947.GE7296@jg>

On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 01:03:09PM +0100, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>On 11/15/2009 12:40 PM, Kris Maglione wrote:
>
>> One simply shouldn't presume to turn another's debugger on
>> without prior consent.
>
>That's a bullshit argument, sorry. Not just because "jsd"
>is on by default (which makes sense, as it provides good
>features). But mainly, because if you don't trust Mozilla's
>engineers, you may not use Firefox. We run other's software
>every time, and we do use other's libraries all the time.

It's not on by default. It's off by default in most apps, and 
it's configurable for a reason. Having the debugger on causes a 
major performance hit.

>And because you mention Unix,
>probably it's because GNU is not Unix, but my "ls" sorts files
>also case insenstive, any file browser which I have tried does
>it

GNU is most certainly not Unix, in any sensible sense of the 
word. But, regardless, even GNU ls sorts case sensitively. So 
do sensible file managers, like Rox and MC. And they do so for a 
reason: people capitalize special files because they want them 
to stand out and expect them to be sorted differently. They 
expect Makefile, README, and LICENSE to show up at the head of 
the ls output.

>If you searched your favorite dictionary, would you search for 
>"Monday" behind
>"zoo"? No.

Languages are not case sensitive in the general case. Case in 
identifiers is important. Different types of capitalization in 
identifiers convey different meanings. Identifiers that start 
with a capital letter generally indicate classes or constants, 
which one might certainly expect to be grouped away from their 
lower case counterparts.

>Is there any reason to really have the "sort" thing in wildoptions?

No, you put it there.

>> Case matching is configurable via
>> 'wildcase' as it has been for some time. The default is
>> "smartcase", meaning that capital letters trigger case sensitive
>> matching, but matching is otherwise case insensitive.
>
>
>'wildcase' is another terrible option which should be removed or
>at least not followed for special cases.

1) That was your idea.
2) I like it.

-- 
Kris Maglione

A plumber has around eight years training in the US. That's to fix my
goddamn toilet.  Yet, how much training do you have to do to be
allowed to build software for a plane carrying hundreds of people?
	--James Coplien


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sun Nov 15 07:27:25 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 10:27:25 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] new web design
In-Reply-To: <4AFB523A.3030205@vimperator.org>
References: <4AEC32BD.4060405@vimperator.org> <4AFB3DD1.7070100@vimperator.org>
	<20091111233523.GO10245@jg> <4AFB523A.3030205@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091115152725.GH7296@jg>

On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 01:09:30AM +0100, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>On 11/12/2009 12:35 AM, Kris Maglione wrote:
>> On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 11:42:25PM +0100, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>>>The colors should be much less controversial now,
>>
>> They're not.
>
>Then make your own color scheme (or anybody else). If you think, you can
>do a color scheme which pleases everybody, go ahead.

I've already said I'm not the one to do it. I'm color blind, so 
if you don't mind over saturated colors and slight to moderate 
mismatches, then I'm fine. Otherwise not so much.

And the problem isn't the color scheme, as I've already said. 
More than half of the battle is applying it. A rose bush, for 
instance, is generally red, green, and perhaps a bit purple. So 
is a gangrenous third degree burn leaking viscera. It's very 
hard to make colors work well, especially when they're bold 
and/or various. It takes an experienced and talented designer to 
make those things work. And since none of us is that, the key is 
to know your boundaries, pick a reasonable color scheme, and 
apply it judiciously. Yours is simply too bold. It mixes too 
many assertive colors, the backgrounds are too prominant.

I'm personally partial to something like my sunburst scheme, but 
with different colors applied in the same way. The colors are 
too bright and too saturated. The purples are too dull for text. 
The main background doesn't work at all. Aside from that, 
though, it has one color for the header, and active button. 
Another for the nav bar and footer. A plain white background for 
the content is good, and a fairly light main background. I 
actually like the brightness of the page, but it's too bright. I 
think the other colors should be kept to an absolute minimum. 
The sidebar and main content links should ideally match, but the 
scheme that you picked didn't really have a decent color that 
worked for both. The <code/> and <tt/> tags should really be the 
same color, preferably something less assertive than the current 
orange. The Note and Warning color should be something red-ish. 
For the moment, visited links have a pale gray border rather 
than a different color, but a scheme with a reasonable shot at a 
visited link color would be good.

So, those are the things I think we need in a palette:

   * Generally warm colors, but not too bright as we'll have 
     fairly large fields of them.
   * Two ideally similar background colors.
   * One rather pale color for the main background, preferably 
     not gray.
   * Highly saturated colors with good contrast against white and 
     one other background color for the links.
   * One understated contrast color for the teletype text.

Additionally,

   * Three colors that contrast with the two main background for 
     the tildes next to the project names.
   * Two reasonable colors for the vimperator labs image.

I also think I can reasonably ask you to add a few as 
alternative schemes rather than peremptorily making them the 
default scheme before we've had a chance to discuss them. It 
should be easy enough to modify the colors in the sunburst 
scheme to play with possibilities. Alternatively, it would be 
nice if some people would post palettes to the list, which I'd 
be glad to mangle into CSS.

-- 
Kris Maglione

?Did God have a mother?? Children, when told that God made the heavens
and the earth, innocently ask whether God had a mother.  This
deceptively simple question has stumped the elders of the church and
embarrassed the finest theologians, precipitating some of the
thorniest theological debates over the centuries.  All the great
religions have elaborate mythologies surrounding the divine act of
Creation, but none of them adequately confronts the logical paradoxes
inherent in the question that even children ask.
	--Michio Kaku


From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sun Nov 15 07:29:43 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 16:29:43 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] jsdebugger
In-Reply-To: <20091115121947.GE7296@jg>
References: <4AFFD99D.90006@vimperator.org>	<6eebba490911150304w2fc979f7t52c59a516cebff1c@mail.gmail.com>	<4AFFE55D.1090607@vimperator.org>
	<20091115114023.GC7296@jg>	<4AFFEDFD.6060608@vimperator.org>
	<20091115121947.GE7296@jg>
Message-ID: <4B001E67.40407@vimperator.org>

On 11/15/2009 01:20 PM, Kris Maglione wrote:

> It's not on by default. It's off by default in most apps, and 
> it's configurable for a reason. Having the debugger on causes a 
> major performance hit.

I thought that's just a service, which only yields performance
loss when calling their functions. If this option is on, and
normal browsing gets slower by some debugging code, then ok,
it should be disabled.

And I don't think KDevelop or such IDEs ask: "You pressed F5 to
debug your program, do you really want to allow the evil gdb to
run?"

> GNU is most certainly not Unix, in any sensible sense of the 
> word. But, regardless, even GNU ls sorts case sensitively. So 
> do sensible file managers, like Rox and MC. And they do so for a 
> reason: people capitalize special files because they want them 
> to stand out and expect them to be sorted differently. They 
> expect Makefile, README, and LICENSE to show up at the head of 
> the ls output.

maxauthority at stubi-pc:~$ ls -1
bin
desktop
documents
downloads
files
music
P5JavaClientSettings # <-- sorted correctly, no special .bashrc, default Ubuntu
pictures
projects
public
screenshot.png

even /bin/ls does the correct thing:
maxauthority at stubi-pc:~/projects/vimperator-labs$ /bin/ls -1
common
downloads
HACKING
hint-position-absolute.patch
License.txt
Makefile
muttator
README.E4X
vimperator
xulmus


>>If you searched your favorite dictionary, would you search for 
>>"Monday" behind
>>"zoo"? No.
> 
> Languages are not case sensitive in the general case. Case in 
> identifiers is important. Different types of capitalization in 
> identifiers convey different meanings. Identifiers that start 
> with a capital letter generally indicate classes or constants, 
> which one might certainly expect to be grouped away from their 
> lower case counterparts.


but if I write lib<tab> I want liberator to be completed, not
Liberator.

 
>>Is there any reason to really have the "sort" thing in wildoptions?
> 
> No, you put it there.


Good, then I (yes, even I'd write some code again ;)) remove that option,
sort by default for those commands where it makes sense, and change
wildoptions=auto to :set autocompletions. I know those 2 things are
not really related, but unless people strongly disagree and give
a good reason, I think that proposed change is good.

 
>>> Case matching is configurable via
>>> 'wildcase' as it has been for some time. The default is
>>> "smartcase", meaning that capital letters trigger case sensitive
>>> matching, but matching is otherwise case insensitive.
>>
>>
>>'wildcase' is another terrible option which should be removed or
>>at least not followed for special cases.
> 
> 1) That was your idea.


I think it was Doug's.

> 2) I like it.


Ok, then we leave it in for you. But it's inconsistent anyway,
e.g. :open completions don't take 'smartcase' into account.

And actually you are right,'wildcase' is not the problem.
The problem is the wrong sorting. If you really can't live
with how modern systems sort strings, we could do a :set
wildsort={normal,casesensitive}.

And was Bram on drugs, when he invented the names "wildmenu",
"wildoptions", etc. - why is everything wild?
A 'sortcompletions' or 'completionsort' option would make
more sense.

--
Martin

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sun Nov 15 07:51:13 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 16:51:13 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] new web design
In-Reply-To: <20091115152725.GH7296@jg>
References: <4AEC32BD.4060405@vimperator.org>
	<4AFB3DD1.7070100@vimperator.org>	<20091111233523.GO10245@jg>
	<4AFB523A.3030205@vimperator.org> <20091115152725.GH7296@jg>
Message-ID: <4B002371.9050602@vimperator.org>

On 11/15/2009 04:27 PM, Kris Maglione wrote:

> So, those are the things I think we need in a palette:
> 
>    * Generally warm colors, but not too bright as we'll have 
>      fairly large fields of them.

I never said we need warm/bright colors for the background or
other large fields. I am also ok with the background in full
black and the main div background in white. What I meant was,
that e.g. the main menu or some links should have some nice color,
and not just boring gray tones or pastel colors.

>    * Two ideally similar background colors.

Why 2?

>    * One rather pale color for the main background, preferably 
>      not gray.

I thought the background will be white or what do you mean with
main background? The one outside of all divs?

> Additionally,
> 
>    * Three colors that contrast with the two main background for 
>      the tildes next to the project names.


Yes, colors for the tildes is the hard thing, but why does it need
to contrast with the main background? It needs to contrast with
the menu background color.

>    * Two reasonable colors for the vimperator labs image.


well the image itself is white or black (with the orange "labs"),
i don't think we really should change the logo.

 
> I also think I can reasonably ask you to add a few as 
> alternative schemes rather than peremptorily making them the 
> default scheme before we've had a chance to discuss them.


Yes I am sorry about that, really. I had it first as an external
color scheme, but thought it looked so great, that it should
be the default color scheme anyway.

I think your explanations which colors are needed are a bit complex,
let me (hopefully) make it easier for those designers which don't
read our css style names.

---------------------------------------------------------------
|AAAAAAAAAA|vimperator labs BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB|AAAAAAA|
|AAAAAAAAAA|BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB|AAAAAAA|
|AAAAAAAAAA|------------------------------------------|AAAAAAA|
|AAAAAAAAAA|Home | Vimperator | ... CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC|AAAAAAA|
|AAAAAAAAAA|------------------------------------------|AAAAAAA|
|AAAAAAAAAA|Main Content EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE|Link  |AAAAAAA|
|AAAAAAAAAA|EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE|Link  |AAAAAAA|
|AAAAAAAAAA|EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE|Link  |AAAAAAA|
|AAAAAAAAAA|EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE|DDDDDD|AAAAAAA|
|AAAAAAAAAA|EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE|DDDDDD|AAAAAAA|
|AAAAAAAAAA|EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE|DDDDDD|AAAAAAA|
|AAAAAAAAAA|EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE|DDDDDD|AAAAAAA|
|AAAAAAAAAA|EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE|DDDDDD|AAAAAAA|
|AAAAAAAAAA|EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE|DDDDDD|AAAAAAA|
|AAAAAAAAAA|EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE|DDDDDD|AAAAAAA|
|AAAAAAAAAA|EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE|DDDDDD|AAAAAAA|
|AAAAAAAAAA|EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE|DDDDDD|AAAAAAA|
|AAAAAAAAAA|EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE|DDDDDD|AAAAAAA|
|AAAAAAAAAA|EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE|DDDDDD|AAAAAAA|
|AAAAAAAAAA|EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE|DDDDDD|AAAAAAA|
|AAAAAAAAAA|------------------------------------------|AAAAAAA|
|AAAAAAAAAA|BBBBBBBB Copyright by ...  BBBBBBBBBBBBBBB|AAAAAAA|
|AAAAAAAAAA|BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB|AAAAAAA|
---------------------------------------------------------------

So any talented designer take a look at: http://sf.vimperator.org/
and tell us good fore- and background colors for A-E.

Although I still doubt, that any real artists are hanging around
here :(

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sun Nov 15 08:29:18 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 11:29:18 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] jsdebugger
In-Reply-To: <4B001E67.40407@vimperator.org>
References: <4AFFD99D.90006@vimperator.org>
	<6eebba490911150304w2fc979f7t52c59a516cebff1c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AFFE55D.1090607@vimperator.org> <20091115114023.GC7296@jg>
	<4AFFEDFD.6060608@vimperator.org> <20091115121947.GE7296@jg>
	<4B001E67.40407@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091115162917.GJ7296@jg>

On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 04:29:43PM +0100, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>On 11/15/2009 01:20 PM, Kris Maglione wrote:
>> It's not on by default. It's off by default in most apps, and
>> it's configurable for a reason. Having the debugger on causes a
>> major performance hit.
>
>I thought that's just a service, which only yields performance
>loss when calling their functions. If this option is on, and
>normal browsing gets slower by some debugging code, then ok,
>it should be disabled.
>
>And I don't think KDevelop or such IDEs ask: "You pressed F5 to
>debug your program, do you really want to allow the evil gdb to
>run?"

I really don't see where you're going with this. The debugger is 
off by default. That means it doesn't instrument functions, 
doesn't interfere with exception handling, doesn't whatever. The 
point is that it's off by default. We don't turn it off, it's 
just off. We can't use it unless it's on. So our only options 
are to either turn it on, or to leave it off until the user 
turns it on. The situation would of course be different if we 
were Venkman or Firebug, which are debuggers. We're not, 
though. We're rather a big hunk of all sorts of crap that most 
people have no intention of using as a debugger, which means we 
had better not mess with people's debugger settings unless they 
ask us to.

>even /bin/ls does the correct thing:

Bollocks. If you change your locale collation function, all 
kinds of things change. The POSIX, GNU, and every other 
Unix-like system default sorts ls output case sensitively.

>but if I write lib<tab> I want liberator to be completed, not
>Liberator.

/me is curious how case sensitive sorting makes a half a lick of difference here.

>
>>>Is there any reason to really have the "sort" thing in wildoptions?
>>
>> No, you put it there.
>
>Good, then I (yes, even I'd write some code again ;)) remove that option,
>sort by default for those commands where it makes sense, and change
>wildoptions=auto to :set autocompletions.

It already sorts by default only where it makes sense. Every 
completion function gets to specify its own compare function. 
Where it doesn't make sense to sort, no sorting is done.

>I know those 2 things are not really related, but unless people 
>strongly disagree and give a good reason, I think that proposed 
>change is good.

I'd rather just add "sort" to the default wildoptions for now. 
I'd really rather *not* change wop=auto without a much better 
reason than that. It's a long-lived user visible option, it 
makes sense, and it's fairly flexible. Until we have an 
especially good reason to change it, I don't think we should.

>> 1) That was your idea.
>
>I think it was Doug's.

Good, then we all agree.

>> 2) I like it.
>
>Ok, then we leave it in for you. But it's inconsistent anyway,
>e.g. :open completions don't take 'smartcase' into account.

That's because we don't provide the location completions and 
there's nothing we can do about it.

>And actually you are right,'wildcase' is not the problem.
>The problem is the wrong sorting. If you really can't live
>with how modern systems sort strings, we could do a :set
>wildsort={normal,casesensitive}.

"Modern" systems are overrated. At any rate, Linux is more 
modern than DOS and DOS has never done case sensitive sorting. 
Your logic is flawless. But, yes, we really should all adapt to 
modern systems. In fact, I'm going to add a compositor to wmii 
tomorrow. I'm thinking something like aero. I'm going to add 
some noise on desktop change too. And I'm going to make them 
slide in, rather than just switching.

Ok, and the keyboard accessibility, I'm going to get rid of 
that. Modern systems don't do that. Gonna replace the menu with 
desktop icons and a program menu. My terminal's going out the 
window, too. And Vim. I was actually thinking of using 
DreamWeaver for all of my text processing (but not for web 
editing; FrontPage for that). Oh, and obviously I'll be doing my 
word processing and image processing online.

>And was Bram on drugs, when he invented the names "wildmenu",
>"wildoptions", etc. - why is everything wild?
>A 'sortcompletions' or 'completionsort' option would make
>more sense.

Bram doesn't need drugs, he has some serious short circuits. At 
any rate, he surely did it for consistency. Whichever option 
came first was to do with wildcards. After the second, he had a 
trend.

-- 
Kris Maglione

Perhaps when a man has special knowledge and special powers like my
own, it rather encourages him to seek a complex explanation when a
simpler one is at hand.
	--"Sherlock Holmes"


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sun Nov 15 08:45:14 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 11:45:14 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] new web design
In-Reply-To: <4B002371.9050602@vimperator.org>
References: <4AEC32BD.4060405@vimperator.org> <4AFB3DD1.7070100@vimperator.org>
	<20091111233523.GO10245@jg> <4AFB523A.3030205@vimperator.org>
	<20091115152725.GH7296@jg> <4B002371.9050602@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091115164514.GK7296@jg>

On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 04:51:13PM +0100, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>On 11/15/2009 04:27 PM, Kris Maglione wrote:
>
>> So, those are the things I think we need in a palette:
>>
>>    * Generally warm colors, but not too bright as we'll have
>>      fairly large fields of them.
>
>I never said we need warm/bright colors for the background or
>other large fields.

I know. That was in line with my suggestions.

>>    * Two ideally similar background colors.
>
>Why 2?

:sty -n vimperator sf.vimperator.org body::before { content: "main background" } .header::before { content: "background 1" } #menubar>*:last-child::after { content: "background 2" } .content::before { content: "content-background" }

background 1, background 2

>> Additionally,
>>
>>    * Three colors that contrast with the two main background for
>>      the tildes next to the project names.
>
>
>Yes, colors for the tildes is the hard thing, but why does it need
>to contrast with the main background? It needs to contrast with
>the menu background color.

They need to contrast with background 1 and background 2.

>>    * Two reasonable colors for the vimperator labs image.
>
>well the image itself is white or black (with the orange "labs"),
>i don't think we really should change the logo.

The vimperator text needs to contrast with its background. Black 
or white should be fine, but it needs to contrast. The orange is 
a very particular shade of orange, and it will clash with quite 
a lot of color schemes. It clashes badly with sunburst.

-- 
Kris Maglione

A language that doesn't have everything is actually easier to program
in than some that do.
	--Dennis M. Ritchie


From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sun Nov 15 09:12:08 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 18:12:08 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] jsdebugger
In-Reply-To: <20091115162917.GJ7296@jg>
References: <4AFFD99D.90006@vimperator.org>	<6eebba490911150304w2fc979f7t52c59a516cebff1c@mail.gmail.com>	<4AFFE55D.1090607@vimperator.org>
	<20091115114023.GC7296@jg>	<4AFFEDFD.6060608@vimperator.org>
	<20091115121947.GE7296@jg>	<4B001E67.40407@vimperator.org>
	<20091115162917.GJ7296@jg>
Message-ID: <4B003668.6050607@vimperator.org>

On 11/15/2009 05:29 PM, Kris Maglione wrote:

> I really don't see where you're going with this. The debugger is 
> off by default. That means it doesn't instrument functions, 
> doesn't interfere with exception handling, doesn't whatever. The 
> point is that it's off by default. We don't turn it off, it's 
> just off. We can't use it unless it's on. So our only options 
> are to either turn it on, or to leave it off until the user 
> turns it on.


Thanks for the clarification, now "jsdebugger" really makes sense,
and is a good option (also with default=off), I thought using
that service for completions didn't have any drawbacks.

>>even /bin/ls does the correct thing:
> 
> Bollocks. If you change your locale collation function, all 
> kinds of things change. The POSIX, GNU, and every other 
> Unix-like system default sorts ls output case sensitively.

My locale is en_US.UTF-8 and I am happy this locale changed
the sorting, because you are right LANG=C /bin/ls does give
that strange case sensitive sorting.

>>but if I write lib<tab> I want liberator to be completed, not
>>Liberator.
> 
> /me is curious how case sensitive sorting makes a half a lick of difference here.

Because with my proposed sorting function "foo" would always
be sorted before "Foo" and that in combination with the (default)
wildcase=smart, would allow to f<tab> to select foo, while F<tab>
selected Foo. But I just realized that this would only work for
that specific case and not for strings like FINGER, Foo, foo, when
the user just types "f". So I reiterate my proposal that we
should match direct matches case sensitive, and the substrings
case insensitive.

And why is it important to the end user to differ between
"window" and "window (prototypes)". The whole completion dialog
for :echo l<tab> looks so complex and overwhelming and unstructured
with 7 (!) completion groups, all sorted individually.
I am not proposing a solution, as this does require more than
just hacking code, but a proper design phase/thinking process.

> I'd rather just add "sort" to the default wildoptions for now. 
> I'd really rather *not* change wop=auto without a much better 
> reason than that. It's a long-lived user visible option, it 
> makes sense, and it's fairly flexible. Until we have an 
> especially good reason to change it, I don't think we should.


For which completer does a "sort" option really makes sense, I
mean we could also just drop it and sort completion functions
where we think it makes sense (like we do now).

Apart from that, shouldn't 'wop' be "auto,sort", or is
it just my fast PC that I didn't have any performance problems
with it?

 


> That's because we don't provide the location completions and 
> there's nothing we can do about it.


I know.


> "Modern" systems are overrated.


"Legacy" systems are overrated. By far not everything new is good,
but the attitude "it has always been like that" without giving
concrete, objective advantages is just stupid. One should think
about how to solve problems in the best way, and with more computing
power, things are possible today, which haven't been some
decades ago.

> In fact, I'm going to add a compositor to wmii tomorrow.

Sad that this is just a sarcastic rant ;)

> And I'm going to make them slide in, rather than just switching.

A compositor has so many more advantages than just animations.
Think about dimming inactive windows, so it's:
a) Easier to see which one has focus
b) Easier to concentrate on the current task.

Of course some terminals provide a similar option, but that
obviously doesn't work for non-terminals, and like you'll certainly
agree, that's the job of a window manager, not of the individual
apps.

But the whole point is that some people see "technology xyz is used
for bad things, so the technology is bad". Innovative people think
beyond that and can find ways to use modern technology in a good
way. But I agree, being innovative is much more difficult than
just copying existing things.

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sun Nov 15 09:28:57 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 12:28:57 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] jsdebugger
In-Reply-To: <4B003668.6050607@vimperator.org>
References: <4AFFD99D.90006@vimperator.org>
	<6eebba490911150304w2fc979f7t52c59a516cebff1c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AFFE55D.1090607@vimperator.org> <20091115114023.GC7296@jg>
	<4AFFEDFD.6060608@vimperator.org> <20091115121947.GE7296@jg>
	<4B001E67.40407@vimperator.org> <20091115162917.GJ7296@jg>
	<4B003668.6050607@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <20091115172857.GL7296@jg>

On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 06:12:08PM +0100, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:
>My locale is en_US.UTF-8 and I am happy this locale changed
>the sorting, because you are right LANG=C /bin/ls does give
>that strange case sensitive sorting.

Strange to you, perhaps. Normal to everyone else. I've never yet 
met a system where changing LANG to en_US.UTF-8 (my default) has 
changed LC_COLLATE.

>>>but if I write lib<tab> I want liberator to be completed, not
>>>Liberator.
>>
>> /me is curious how case sensitive sorting makes a half a lick of difference here.
>
>Because with my proposed sorting function "foo" would always
>be sorted before "Foo" and that in combination with the (default)
>wildcase=smart, would allow to f<tab> to select foo, while F<tab>
>selected Foo. But I just realized that this would only work for
>that specific case and not for strings like FINGER, Foo, foo, when
>the user just types "f". So I reiterate my proposal that we
>should match direct matches case sensitive, and the substrings
>case insensitive.

That doesn't even make sense. It wouldn't work for that specific 
case, because with case insensitive sorting that case would be 
nondeterministic. And I really dislike that proposal. It's 
confusing. I don't see what substrings have to do with case 
sensitivity and it just adds another confusing layer of 
complexity to the mix (and completely breaks wildcase). I'd 
rather some key binding to toggle case sensitivity, if anything.

>And why is it important to the end user to differ between
>"window" and "window (prototypes)".

In the case of window, it might not be. In the case of other 
objects, it's crucial. It's important for the same reason we use 
Iterator or check hasOwnProperty. The properties that aren't in 
the prototype often have a certain meaning. The properties in 
the prototype include things like __defineGetter__, 
propertyIsEnumerable, __parent__, slice, toUpperCase. Those 
things are all useful (and I've lamented our completion not 
finding them for ages), but they're a distraction when you want 
to check the properties that the user's added to an object.

>The whole completion dialog for :echo l<tab> looks so complex 
>and overwhelming and  unstructured with 7 (!) completion 
>groups, all sorted individually.

I know. I haven't decided what to do about it yet. Give me a 
break, I just added the feature the other day.
>For which completer does a "sort" option really makes sense, I
>mean we could also just drop it and sort completion functions
>where we think it makes sense (like we do now).

As Conrad already mentioned, slow systems can't handle the load.

>Apart from that, shouldn't 'wop' be "auto,sort", or is
>it just my fast PC that I didn't have any performance problems
>with it?

Yes, it's that. That should be the default, though.

>"Legacy" systems are overrated. By far not everything new is good,
>but the attitude "it has always been like that" without giving
>concrete, objective advantages is just stupid. One should think
>about how to solve problems in the best way, and with more computing
>power, things are possible today, which haven't been some
>decades ago.

I gave you concrete objective reasons. Then I lampooned your 
appeal to modernity.

>> And I'm going to make them slide in, rather than just switching.
>
>A compositor has so many more advantages than just animations.
>Think about dimming inactive windows, so it's:
>a) Easier to see which one has focus
>b) Easier to concentrate on the current task.

You really don't want to get me started.

-- 
Kris Maglione

For a long time it puzzled me how something so expensive, so leading
edge, could be so useless, and then it occurred to me that a computer
is a stupid machine with the ability to do incredibly smart things,
while computer programmers are smart people with the ability to do
incredibly stupid things.  They are, in short, a perfect match.
	--Bill Bryson


From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sun Nov 15 10:14:59 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 19:14:59 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] jsdebugger
In-Reply-To: <20091115172857.GL7296@jg>
References: <4AFFD99D.90006@vimperator.org>	<6eebba490911150304w2fc979f7t52c59a516cebff1c@mail.gmail.com>	<4AFFE55D.1090607@vimperator.org>
	<20091115114023.GC7296@jg>	<4AFFEDFD.6060608@vimperator.org>
	<20091115121947.GE7296@jg>	<4B001E67.40407@vimperator.org>
	<20091115162917.GJ7296@jg>	<4B003668.6050607@vimperator.org>
	<20091115172857.GL7296@jg>
Message-ID: <4B004523.70905@vimperator.org>

On 11/15/2009 06:28 PM, Kris Maglione wrote:

>>So I reiterate my proposal that we
>>should match direct matches case sensitive, and the substrings
>>case insensitive.
> 
> That doesn't even make sense. It wouldn't work for that specific 
> case, because with case insensitive sorting that case would be 
> nondeterministic. And I really dislike that proposal. It's 
> confusing. I don't see what substrings have to do with case 
> sensitivity


Because when we had the discussion if substrings should be listed
I mainly agreed to it, because it does serve a purpose, but just
for exploring apis.

That's why they are also listed behind the direct matches. Usually,
if you know what you are typing you just press a few characters
from the beginning of the word, and press <Tab>. And that's why
I want case-sensitive matching for those things, because IF you
know what you want, the fewer possible matches for completions,
the better.
On the other hand, sometimes you don't know how a specific method
is called. Then, substring matches is helpful, but with case
insensentive matching, even more helpful. E.g. you know you want
some method inside the commands. namespace which has something
to do with strings. then commands.strings<tab> makes sense
and also finds commands.commandToString().

> I'd 
> rather some key binding to toggle case sensitivity, if anything.

Sounds quite bad to me as well. If so, we could change the
mappings that <Tab> always does just things to complete things,
and <C-Tab> or <C-d> or whatever to get as much info about the
current input. But I'd prefer to keep things simple, and I think
with some clever thinking, one can make a single <Tab> do
what the user expects and helps him as much as possible.

>>And why is it important to the end user to differ between
>>"window" and "window (prototypes)".

> In the case of window, it might not be. In the case of other 

> objects, it's crucial. It's important for the same reason we use 
> Iterator or check hasOwnProperty. The properties that aren't in 
> the prototype often have a certain meaning. The properties in 
> the prototype include things like __defineGetter__, 
> propertyIsEnumerable, __parent__, slice, toUpperCase. Those 
> things are all useful (and I've lamented our completion not 
> finding them for ages), but they're a distraction when you want 
> to check the properties that the user's added to an object.

>>The whole completion dialog for :echo l<tab> looks so complex 

>>and overwhelming and  unstructured with 7 (!) completion 
>>groups, all sorted individually.
> 
> I know. I haven't decided what to do about it yet. Give me a 
> break, I just added the feature the other day.


Ok. Maybe just list them in gray instead of black in the completion
list? Or maybe even better would be if we just had different icons in
the list which differs between a prototype or user function?
It's just that having too many individually sorted
groups aren't the best if you want to quickly get to the item you
want by spotting the item in the list and then pressing <tab> a few times.

Actually I think we should even combine the "window" or "modules
groups into one. At any rate, the list needs to get less complex,
while still providing useful information for the advanced developer.


>>For which completer does a "sort" option really makes sense, I
>>mean we could also just drop it and sort completion functions
>>where we think it makes sense (like we do now).
> 
> As Conrad already mentioned, slow systems can't handle the load.

That's just for sorting the file names. I'd rather remove "f" from
'complete' by default for those slow PCs and also drop the
"sort" option.

>>Apart from that, shouldn't 'wop' be "auto,sort", or is
>>it just my fast PC that I didn't have any performance problems
>>with it?
> 
> Yes, it's that. That should be the default, though.

I am not sure, I understood this correctly. So you think, it might
be problematic on old, <2Ghz PCs, but we should still make it the
default?

> You really don't want to get me started.


Not about this topic where neither you, nor I will change the
opinin about modern graphics.

 



From casey at manion.com  Sun Nov 15 15:31:10 2009
From: casey at manion.com (Casey Manion)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 15:31:10 -0800
Subject: [Vimperator] Search engines and keyword URLs
In-Reply-To: <20091115020031.GB7296@jg>
References: <66dd0ce40911141710r3c731480v4b6d187959b4ff4b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091115012251.GA7296@jg>
	<66dd0ce40911141740p5d7db45coa5cb8737162ae05b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091115020031.GB7296@jg>
Message-ID: <66dd0ce40911151531y1a40ef38kf816be74498cd38d@mail.gmail.com>

I used :js liberator.log(..., 0) instead of echo because it was easier
to copy...

-Casey


echo bookmarks.getSearchURL("php");
vimperator: http://www.php.net/search.php

echo bookmarks.getSearchURL("php foo");
vimperator: null

echo [b.slice() for (b in storage["bookmark-cache"]) if
(/php/.test(b.keyword))];
vimperator: http://www.php.net/search.php,php,moz-anno:favicon:http://us.php.net/favicon.ico,php,,2235::
0: http://www.php.net/search.php,php,moz-anno:favicon:http://us.php.net/favicon.ico,php,,2235

echo PlacesUtils.bookmarks.getURIForKeyword("php");
vimperator: [xpconnect?wrapped nsIURI]::
asciiHost: "www.php.net"
asciiSpec: "http://www.php.net/search.php"
clone: function clone() { ... }
equals: function equals() { ... }
host: "www.php.net"
hostPort: "www.php.net"
originCharset: "UTF-8"
password: ""
path: "/search.php"
port: -1
prePath: "http://www.php.net"
QueryInterface: function QueryInterface() { ... }
resolve: function resolve() { ... }
scheme: "http"
schemeIs: function schemeIs() { ... }
spec: "http://www.php.net/search.php"
username: ""
userPass: ""

echo window.getShortcutOrURI("php");
vimperator: http://www.php.net/search.php

echo window.getShortcutOrURI("php foo");
vimperator: http://www.php.net/search.php

echo window.getShortcutOrURI;
vimperator: function getShortcutOrURI(aURL, aPostDataRef) {
    var shortcutURL = null;
    var keyword = aURL;
    var param = "";
    var searchService =
Cc['@mozilla.org/browser/search-service;1'].getService(Ci.nsIBrowserSearchService);
    var offset = aURL.indexOf(" ");
    if (offset > 0) {
        keyword = aURL.substr(0, offset);
        param = aURL.substr(offset + 1);
    }
    if (!aPostDataRef) {
        aPostDataRef = {};
    }
    var engine = searchService.getEngineByAlias(keyword);
    if (engine) {
        var submission = engine.getSubmission(param, null);
        aPostDataRef.value = submission.postData;
        return submission.uri.spec;
    }
    [shortcutURL, aPostDataRef.value] =
PlacesUtils.getURLAndPostDataForKeyword(keyword);
    if (!shortcutURL) {
        return aURL;
    }
    var postData = "";
    if (aPostDataRef.value) {
        postData = unescape(aPostDataRef.value);
    }
    if (/%s/i.test(shortcutURL) || /%s/i.test(postData)) {
        var charset = "";
        const re = /^(.*)\&mozcharset=([a-zA-Z][_\-a-zA-Z0-9]+)\s*$/;
        var matches = shortcutURL.match(re);
        if (matches) {
            [, shortcutURL, charset] = matches;
        } else {
            try {
                charset =
PlacesUtils.history.getCharsetForURI(makeURI(shortcutURL));
            } catch (e) {
            }
        }
        var encodedParam = "";
        if (charset) {
            encodedParam = escape(convertFromUnicode(charset, param));
        } else {
            encodedParam = encodeURIComponent(param);
        }
        shortcutURL = shortcutURL.replace(/%s/g,
encodedParam).replace(/%S/g, param);
        if (/%s/i.test(postData)) {
            aPostDataRef.value = getPostDataStream(postData, param,
encodedParam, "application/x-www-form-urlencoded");
        }
    } else if (param) {
        aPostDataRef.value = null;
        return aURL;
    }
    return shortcutURL;
}

// just to be complete ...
echo bookmarks.getSearchURL;
vimperator: function getSearchURL(text, useDefsearch) {
    var url = null;
    var searchString = (useDefsearch ? options.defsearch + " " : "") + text;
    this.getSearchEngines();

    function getShortcutOrURI(url) {
        var shortcutURL = null;
        var keyword = url;
        var param = "";
        var offset = url.indexOf(" ");
        if (offset > 0) {
            keyword = url.substr(0, offset);
            param = url.substr(offset + 1);
        }
        var engine = services.get("browserSearch").getEngineByAlias(keyword);
        if (engine) {
            var submission = engine.getSubmission(param, null);
            return [submission.uri.spec, submission.postData];
        }
        [shortcutURL, postData] =
PlacesUtils.getURLAndPostDataForKeyword(keyword);
        if (!shortcutURL) {
            return [url, null];
        }
        var data = unescape(postData || "");
        if (/%s/i.test(shortcutURL) || /%s/i.test(data)) {
            var charset = "";
            var matches =
shortcutURL.match(/^(.*)\&mozcharset=([a-zA-Z][_\-a-zA-Z0-9]+)\s*$/);
            if (matches) {
                [, shortcutURL, charset] = matches;
            } else {
                try {
                    charset =
PlacesUtils.history.getCharsetForURI(window.makeURI(shortcutURL));
                } catch (e) {
                }
            }
            var encodedParam;
            if (charset) {
                encodedParam =
escape(window.convertFromUnicode(charset, param));
            } else {
                encodedParam = encodeURIComponent(param);
            }
            shortcutURL = shortcutURL.replace(/%s/g,
encodedParam).replace(/%S/g, param);
            if (/%s/i.test(data)) {
                postData = window.getPostDataStream(data, param,
encodedParam, "application/x-www-form-urlencoded");
            }
        } else if (param) {
            return [url, null];
        }
        return [shortcutURL, postData];
    }

    var [url, postData] = getShortcutOrURI(searchString);
    if (url == searchString) {
        return null;
    }
    if (postData) {
        return [url, postData];
    }
    return url;
}


On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 6:00 PM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 05:40:18PM -0800, Casey Manion wrote:
>>
>> I disabled all addons except Vimperator and it still doesn't work
>> correctly.
>>
>> I don't have the delicious addon.
>
> Ah, good, you have some sense after all. Can you post the output of the
> following?
>
> :echo bookmarks.getSearchURL("php");
> :echo bookmarks.getSearchURL("php foo");
> :echo [b.slice() for (b in storage["bookmark-cache"]) if
> (/php/.test(b.keyword))];
> :echo PlacesUtils.bookmarks.getURIForKeyword("php");
> :echo window.getShortcutOrURI("php");
> :echo window.getShortcutOrURI("php foo");
>
> And, for good measure,
>
> :echo window.getShortcutOrURI;
>
> --
> Kris Maglione
>
> If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be
> the process of putting them in.
> ? ? ? ?--Edsger W. Dijkstra
>
> _______________________________________________
> Vimperator mailing list
> Vimperator at mozdev.org
> https://www.mozdev.org/mailman/listinfo/vimperator
>

From ted at tedpavlic.com  Sun Nov 15 20:29:06 2009
From: ted at tedpavlic.com (Ted Pavlic)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 23:29:06 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] Search engines and keyword URLs
In-Reply-To: <20091115020031.GB7296@jg>
References: <66dd0ce40911141710r3c731480v4b6d187959b4ff4b@mail.gmail.com>	<20091115012251.GA7296@jg>	<66dd0ce40911141740p5d7db45coa5cb8737162ae05b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091115020031.GB7296@jg>
Message-ID: <4B00D512.2090006@tedpavlic.com>

Kris --

> Ah, good, you have some sense after all. Can you post the output
> of the following?

	What is your preferred method of synchronizing bookmarks across 
multiple machines?

(it would be a bonus if the method allowed for importing bookmarks 
accumulated at delicious over years, including the tags, but being able 
to import from FF might be sufficient)

	If you have something constructive to add here, I think your advice 
would really be welcome. (it would be excellent if someone would write a 
Vimp add-on for del.icio.us that plugs del.icio.us into ":open" without 
all of the delicious addon bloat) Otherwise, it's just rubbing salt in a 
wound (arguably opened by either your in-good-faith cleanup in Vimp 2.2 
or the massive delicious add-on).

	Thanks --
	Ted

-- 
Ted Pavlic <ted at tedpavlic.com>

   Please visit my 2009 d'Feet ALS walk page:
         http://web.alsa.org/goto/tedp
   My family appreciates your support in the fight to defeat ALS.

From ted at tedpavlic.com  Mon Nov 16 18:44:03 2009
From: ted at tedpavlic.com (Ted Pavlic)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 21:44:03 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] Mercurial 1.4 released
Message-ID: <4B020DF3.2070704@tedpavlic.com>

A list of changes:

http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/WhatsNew


Something tiny but nice are the additions of

	hg diff --stat

   and

	hg diff --reverse


-- 
Ted Pavlic <ted at tedpavlic.com>

   Please visit my 2009 d'Feet ALS walk page:
         http://web.alsa.org/goto/tedp
   My family appreciates your support in the fight to defeat ALS.

From webmaster at segaja.de  Tue Nov 17 03:45:28 2009
From: webmaster at segaja.de (Segaja)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:45:28 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] maxVersion in install.rdf
Message-ID: <4B028CD8.9080107@segaja.de>

Hi,

I'm using FF 3.6b4pre and I was wondering if it would be possible to 
increase the maxVersion of the install.rdf from 3.6b3pre to 3.6b4pre?

-Segaja

From casey at manion.com  Wed Nov 18 13:25:01 2009
From: casey at manion.com (Casey Manion)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 13:25:01 -0800
Subject: [Vimperator] Search engines and keyword URLs
In-Reply-To: <66dd0ce40911151531y1a40ef38kf816be74498cd38d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <66dd0ce40911141710r3c731480v4b6d187959b4ff4b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091115012251.GA7296@jg>
	<66dd0ce40911141740p5d7db45coa5cb8737162ae05b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091115020031.GB7296@jg>
	<66dd0ce40911151531y1a40ef38kf816be74498cd38d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <66dd0ce40911181325r6d6632a5o5271799c871cbbb4@mail.gmail.com>

So? After looking at this a bit...

The sub-function "getShortcutOrURI" under bookmarks.getSearchURL
returns an array of "[shortcutURL, postData]", while the
"window.getShortcutOrURI" returns only the "shortcutURL"

...

Should there be a "this" or a different function name be used?

???
This:
>var [url, postData] = getShortcutOrURI(searchString);
to:
>var [url, postData] = this.getShortcutOrURI(searchString);
???


Thanks
-Casey

From casey at manion.com  Wed Nov 18 14:08:44 2009
From: casey at manion.com (Casey Manion)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 14:08:44 -0800
Subject: [Vimperator] Search engines and keyword URLs
In-Reply-To: <66dd0ce40911181325r6d6632a5o5271799c871cbbb4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <66dd0ce40911141710r3c731480v4b6d187959b4ff4b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091115012251.GA7296@jg>
	<66dd0ce40911141740p5d7db45coa5cb8737162ae05b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091115020031.GB7296@jg>
	<66dd0ce40911151531y1a40ef38kf816be74498cd38d@mail.gmail.com>
	<66dd0ce40911181325r6d6632a5o5271799c871cbbb4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <66dd0ce40911181408q38faaf80ld2203f31e3e23cf8@mail.gmail.com>

I fixed it by declaring the variable "postData" in bookmarks.js,
sub-function "getShortcutOrURI" under bookmarks.getSearchURL:


Line 715:
  var shortcutURL = null;
+var postData = null;

Thanks,
-Casey



On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 1:25 PM, Casey Manion <casey at manion.com> wrote:
> So? After looking at this a bit...
>
> The sub-function "getShortcutOrURI" under bookmarks.getSearchURL
> returns an array of "[shortcutURL, postData]", while the
> "window.getShortcutOrURI" returns only the "shortcutURL"
>
> ...
>
> Should there be a "this" or a different function name be used?
>
> ???
> This:
>>var [url, postData] = getShortcutOrURI(searchString);
> to:
>>var [url, postData] = this.getShortcutOrURI(searchString);
> ???
>
>
> Thanks
> -Casey
>

From casey at manion.com  Wed Nov 18 14:14:04 2009
From: casey at manion.com (Casey Manion)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 14:14:04 -0800
Subject: [Vimperator] Search engines and keyword URLs
In-Reply-To: <66dd0ce40911181408q38faaf80ld2203f31e3e23cf8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <66dd0ce40911141710r3c731480v4b6d187959b4ff4b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091115012251.GA7296@jg>
	<66dd0ce40911141740p5d7db45coa5cb8737162ae05b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091115020031.GB7296@jg>
	<66dd0ce40911151531y1a40ef38kf816be74498cd38d@mail.gmail.com>
	<66dd0ce40911181325r6d6632a5o5271799c871cbbb4@mail.gmail.com>
	<66dd0ce40911181408q38faaf80ld2203f31e3e23cf8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <66dd0ce40911181414v12f17d43q232d576eecb86382@mail.gmail.com>

Note: This bug is in the current branch of vimperator-labs:

vimperator-labs/common/content/bookmarks.js

367             var shortcutURL = null;
+                var postData = null;


-Casey


On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 2:08 PM, Casey Manion <casey at manion.com> wrote:
> I fixed it by declaring the variable "postData" in bookmarks.js,
> sub-function "getShortcutOrURI" under bookmarks.getSearchURL:
>
>
> Line 715:
> ?var shortcutURL = null;
> +var postData = null;
>
> Thanks,
> -Casey
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 1:25 PM, Casey Manion <casey at manion.com> wrote:
>> So? After looking at this a bit...
>>
>> The sub-function "getShortcutOrURI" under bookmarks.getSearchURL
>> returns an array of "[shortcutURL, postData]", while the
>> "window.getShortcutOrURI" returns only the "shortcutURL"
>>
>> ...
>>
>> Should there be a "this" or a different function name be used?
>>
>> ???
>> This:
>>>var [url, postData] = getShortcutOrURI(searchString);
>> to:
>>>var [url, postData] = this.getShortcutOrURI(searchString);
>> ???
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Casey
>>
>

From dteslenko at gmail.com  Thu Nov 19 03:14:59 2009
From: dteslenko at gmail.com (Dmitry Teslenko)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 14:14:59 +0300
Subject: [Vimperator] [vimperator 2.2] edit behavior changed
Message-ID: <91325fec0911190314h2b280fc8if120c53a155bdd7b@mail.gmail.com>

Hello!
I use :e or :edit to reload document in vim and as reload page in vimperator.
Since update from 2.1 to 2.2 :edit command navigates to about:blank instead
of reload.

-- 
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Thu Nov 19 05:52:02 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 14:52:02 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] [vimperator 2.2] edit behavior changed
In-Reply-To: <91325fec0911190314h2b280fc8if120c53a155bdd7b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <91325fec0911190314h2b280fc8if120c53a155bdd7b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aaae92100911190552x18f0d042p6601822a618049fc@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 12:14 PM, Dmitry Teslenko <dteslenko at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello!
> I use :e or :edit to reload document in vim and as reload page in vimperator.
> Since update from 2.1 to 2.2 :edit command navigates to about:blank instead
> of reload.

I noticed that as well, no idea if that change was intentional.

For me, both behavior's are ok, what does the community think?

BTW: We removed :edit aliases in the nightly build, in future, use
:o or :open which is much more logical anyway.

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Thu Nov 19 17:02:19 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 20:02:19 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] Search engines and keyword URLs
In-Reply-To: <66dd0ce40911181414v12f17d43q232d576eecb86382@mail.gmail.com>
References: <66dd0ce40911141710r3c731480v4b6d187959b4ff4b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091115012251.GA7296@jg>
	<66dd0ce40911141740p5d7db45coa5cb8737162ae05b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091115020031.GB7296@jg>
	<66dd0ce40911151531y1a40ef38kf816be74498cd38d@mail.gmail.com>
	<66dd0ce40911181325r6d6632a5o5271799c871cbbb4@mail.gmail.com>
	<66dd0ce40911181408q38faaf80ld2203f31e3e23cf8@mail.gmail.com>
	<66dd0ce40911181414v12f17d43q232d576eecb86382@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091120010218.GN7296@jg>

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 02:14:04PM -0800, Casey Manion wrote:
>Note: This bug is in the current branch of vimperator-labs:
>
>vimperator-labs/common/content/bookmarks.js
>
>367             var shortcutURL = null;
>+                var postData = null;

Thanks, I'll commit it as soon as I've been able to review it.

-- 
Kris Maglione

UNIX was not designed to stop its users from doing stupid things, as
that would also stop them from doing clever things.
	--Doug Gwyn


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Thu Nov 19 17:23:50 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 20:23:50 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] [vimperator 2.2] edit behavior changed
In-Reply-To: <91325fec0911190314h2b280fc8if120c53a155bdd7b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <91325fec0911190314h2b280fc8if120c53a155bdd7b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091120012350.GO7296@jg>

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 02:14:59PM +0300, Dmitry Teslenko wrote:
>Hello!
>I use :e or :edit to reload document in vim and as reload page in vimperator.
>Since update from 2.1 to 2.2 :edit command navigates to about:blank instead
>of reload.

It was changed for consistency with :tabo and :wino, and it 
seems the correct behavior to me. Use r or O<CR> instead (but 
not that the latter won't work if the url has a fragment 
identifier in it).

-- 
Kris Maglione

The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly
teaches me to suspect that my own is also.
	--Mark Twain


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Thu Nov 19 17:48:02 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 20:48:02 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] Nightiles
Message-ID: <20091120014802.GP7296@jg>

Hi,

One of our users, Segaja, has offered his server for nightly 
builds. Since I can't vouch for the availability of my 
workstation every night, we've setup my nightly build process on 
his server. If there are no objections, he'll be providing the 
nightly builds for as long as he's willing and able.

He's also suggested providing an update.rdf link for the 
nightlies to make them easier for our testers to track. I'm 
hoping to make arrangements for that as soon as possible. 
Unfortunately, it requires either an SSL connection or for the 
RDF entries to be specially signed, which poses peculiar 
difficulties for our SourceForge server. The only simple 
solution at the moment is to bulk upload the RDFs at regular 
intervals, which is not an entirely elegant or reliable 
solution.

-- 
Kris Maglione

It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument.
	-William G. McAdoo


From maglione.k at gmail.com  Thu Nov 19 19:13:54 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:13:54 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] maxVersion in install.rdf
In-Reply-To: <4B028CD8.9080107@segaja.de>
References: <4B028CD8.9080107@segaja.de>
Message-ID: <20091120031354.GQ7296@jg>

On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 12:45:28PM +0100, Segaja wrote:
>I'm using FF 3.6b4pre and I was wondering if it would be possible to 
>increase the maxVersion of the install.rdf from 3.6b3pre to 3.6b4pre?

We should really probably set it to 3.7.* for nightlies and the 
dev tree. At any rate, it's not an issue so long as you

     :set! extensions.checkCompatibility=false

-- 
Kris Maglione

Saying that Java is good because it works on all platforms is like
saying anal sex is good because it works on all genders.
	--Unknown


From gary.katsevman at gmail.com  Thu Nov 19 19:23:54 2009
From: gary.katsevman at gmail.com (Gary Katsevman)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:23:54 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] maxVersion in install.rdf
In-Reply-To: <20091120031354.GQ7296@jg>
References: <4B028CD8.9080107@segaja.de> <20091120031354.GQ7296@jg>
Message-ID: <97265dfa0911191923x20321645g33cd8ba63d0556d3@mail.gmail.com>

In Firefox 3.6 and 3.7 it has been changed it
extensions.checkCompatibility.3.6b and
extensions.checkCompatibility.3.7a, fyi.

------------------------
Gary Katsevman
Computer Science Undergraduate
Northeastern University
gkatsev at ccs.neu.edu
gkatsev.com



On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 22:13, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 12:45:28PM +0100, Segaja wrote:
>>
>> I'm using FF 3.6b4pre and I was wondering if it would be possible to
>> increase the maxVersion of the install.rdf from 3.6b3pre to 3.6b4pre?
>
> We should really probably set it to 3.7.* for nightlies and the dev tree. At
> any rate, it's not an issue so long as you
>
> ? ?:set! extensions.checkCompatibility=false
>
> --
> Kris Maglione
>
> Saying that Java is good because it works on all platforms is like
> saying anal sex is good because it works on all genders.
> ? ? ? ?--Unknown
>
> _______________________________________________
> Vimperator mailing list
> Vimperator at mozdev.org
> https://www.mozdev.org/mailman/listinfo/vimperator
>

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Thu Nov 19 19:32:55 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:32:55 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] maxVersion in install.rdf
In-Reply-To: <97265dfa0911191923x20321645g33cd8ba63d0556d3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B028CD8.9080107@segaja.de> <20091120031354.GQ7296@jg>
	<97265dfa0911191923x20321645g33cd8ba63d0556d3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091120033254.GR7296@jg>

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 10:23:54PM -0500, Gary Katsevman wrote:
>In Firefox 3.6 and 3.7 it has been changed it
>extensions.checkCompatibility.3.6b and
>extensions.checkCompatibility.3.7a, fyi.

That's exceedingly lame. We'll have to add support to Vimperator 
to fix that.

-- 
Kris Maglione

A most important, but also most elusive, aspect of any tool is its
influence on the habits of those who train themselves in its use.  If
the tool is a programming language this influence is, whether we like
it or not, an influence on our thinking habits.
	--Edsger W. Dijkstra


From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Fri Nov 20 02:21:20 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:21:20 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] [vimperator 2.2] edit behavior changed
In-Reply-To: <20091120012350.GO7296@jg>
References: <91325fec0911190314h2b280fc8if120c53a155bdd7b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091120012350.GO7296@jg>
Message-ID: <aaae92100911200221yc2ae6b1t8db057defa8491f9@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 2:23 AM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
> It was changed for consistency with :tabo and :wino, and it seems the
> correct behavior to me

For me too, but things changing old behavior from important commands like :open
should usually be documented in the NEWS file, probably even as "important".

From dougkearns at gmail.com  Fri Nov 20 04:42:05 2009
From: dougkearns at gmail.com (Doug Kearns)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 23:42:05 +1100
Subject: [Vimperator] [vimperator 2.2] edit behavior changed
In-Reply-To: <aaae92100911200221yc2ae6b1t8db057defa8491f9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <91325fec0911190314h2b280fc8if120c53a155bdd7b@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20091120012350.GO7296@jg>
	<aaae92100911200221yc2ae6b1t8db057defa8491f9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <644fc65e0911200442u736c1c83n123f14deb5902d83@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 9:21 PM, Stubenschrott, Martin
<maxauthority at vimperator.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 2:23 AM, Kris Maglione <maglione.k at gmail.com> wrote:
>> It was changed for consistency with :tabo and :wino, and it seems the
>> correct behavior to me
>
> For me too, but things changing old behavior from important commands like :open
> should usually be documented in the NEWS file, probably even as "important".

It may not be the most fluent sentence but it is mentioned in NEWS and
the relevant commit message is clear about the intent.

Doug

From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Fri Nov 20 05:40:18 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:40:18 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] [vimperator 2.2] edit behavior changed
In-Reply-To: <644fc65e0911200442u736c1c83n123f14deb5902d83@mail.gmail.com>
References: <91325fec0911190314h2b280fc8if120c53a155bdd7b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091120012350.GO7296@jg>
	<aaae92100911200221yc2ae6b1t8db057defa8491f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<644fc65e0911200442u736c1c83n123f14deb5902d83@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aaae92100911200540j42efbdfeyacc3e92f518e7191@mail.gmail.com>

> It may not be the most fluent sentence but it is mentioned in NEWS and
> the relevant commit message is clear about the intent.

Damn, I must have missed that, sorry :(

But anyway, we all think the new behavior is better, so thanks for the commit.

From webmaster at segaja.de  Sun Nov 22 12:55:34 2009
From: webmaster at segaja.de (Segaja)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 21:55:34 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] maxVersion in install.rdf
In-Reply-To: <20091120031354.GQ7296@jg>
References: <4B028CD8.9080107@segaja.de> <20091120031354.GQ7296@jg>
Message-ID: <4B09A546.3060004@segaja.de>

On 11/20/2009 04:13 AM, Kris Maglione wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 12:45:28PM +0100, Segaja wrote:
>> I'm using FF 3.6b4pre and I was wondering if it would be possible to 
>> increase the maxVersion of the install.rdf from 3.6b3pre to 3.6b4pre?
>
> We should really probably set it to 3.7.* for nightlies and the dev tree.
Sounds like a plan.

From anekos616 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 26 12:10:51 2009
From: anekos616 at gmail.com (NekoShogun Akuma)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 05:10:51 +0900
Subject: [Vimperator] Expanding input=select and selecting an item
In-Reply-To: <880dece00911150133t40c3b60x743704396d91c8e7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <880dece00911150133t40c3b60x743704396d91c8e7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d61793b50911261210p36fb84d1xac1a5046b90678f4@mail.gmail.com>

I wrote a plugin!
http://vimperator.kurinton.net/plugins/option-selector.html
This plugin makes the completer for input=select.

--
anekos
http://vimperator.kurinton.net/

From aldana at gmx.de  Thu Nov 26 14:59:16 2009
From: aldana at gmx.de (manuel aldana)
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 23:59:16 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] macros with parameters
Message-ID: <4B0F0844.4040700@gmx.de>

hi,

how is it possible to setup macros which get macros passed. in the 
online docs i could only find macro-replay without supporting parameters

-- 
 manuel aldana
 aldana at gmx.de
 software-engineering blog: http://www.aldana-online.de


From aldana at gmx.de  Thu Nov 26 15:00:37 2009
From: aldana at gmx.de (manuel aldana)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 00:00:37 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] status line/bar disappeared, how to revoke?
Message-ID: <4B0F0895.7020207@gmx.de>

hi,

my status line (by default the blackish) on the bottom of the browser 
disappeared. how can i revoke it? couldn't find this option in 'Options' 
online help.

thanks.

-- 
 manuel aldana
 aldana at gmx.de
 software-engineering blog: http://www.aldana-online.de


From crimson.blue.2 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 27 06:32:52 2009
From: crimson.blue.2 at gmail.com (Rod)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 08:32:52 -0600
Subject: [Vimperator] usage of macros and profile manager
Message-ID: <20091127143252.GA19725@trs>

I am a new user with a question. First of all is this the correct forum for a
usage question if not please point me in the right dirrection. 

I would like to automate the downloading of a file via firefox. (I could not
get wget to work on this particular file).  As of now I call firefox from cron
with a command line switch to load a particular ProgamManager profile.  This
profile has vimperator attached as a plugin.  From there the .vimperatorrc file
is read and I run a  macro to start the download process.

:play 0 

and all is well.

However, this machine is used as a DVR (mythtv, dual screens one a tv and other
a monitor), it is always on and always logged into the same user.  My kids (or
myself) sometimes leave without shutting down firefox.  If a typical firefox
session is left running it would not have vimperator loaded.  When this happens
the new firefox instance started from the cron job will will not change
profiles and vimperator will not be available. 

Can I get two instances of firefox running each with it's own profile? 




Other things I've tried:

I've tried to run the cron job as another (linux) user but have not been
succesful due to lack of X session running for that user.

So I see possible solutions being:

   Getting two firefox session running simmultaiously, one with vimperator
loaded and one without (both running on the some X server).

  Having all firefox sessions start wtih vimperator loaded and create a script
to start the macro from cron.  I don't know how to do this.  Can I write some
logic statment in the .vimperratorrc file to only run the macro at specific
times.  

  Get firefox to load and run as a different (linux) user even without a new x
server starting.

Thanks for all the hard work this pluging is very nice!

From dmishd at gmail.com  Fri Nov 27 06:41:28 2009
From: dmishd at gmail.com (Hamish D)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 14:41:28 +0000
Subject: [Vimperator] usage of macros and profile manager
In-Reply-To: <20091127143252.GA19725@trs>
References: <20091127143252.GA19725@trs>
Message-ID: <2af236e00911270641u746b1273q25ddb888c745abf9@mail.gmail.com>

> ? Getting two firefox session running simmultaiously, one with vimperator
> loaded and one without (both running on the some X server).

You want to use the -no-remote option. See

http://kb.mozillazine.org/Command_line_arguments

for more details. I use several firefox profiles and start firefox
with a script with

firefox -no-remote -P myprofile

enjoy
Hamish

From mcsontos at redhat.com  Fri Nov 27 07:54:37 2009
From: mcsontos at redhat.com (Marian Csontos)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 16:54:37 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] status line/bar disappeared, how to revoke?
In-Reply-To: <4B0F0895.7020207@gmx.de>
References: <4B0F0895.7020207@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <4B0FF63D.1070508@redhat.com>

On 11/27/2009 12:00 AM, manuel aldana wrote:
> hi,
>
> my status line (by default the blackish) on the bottom of the browser 
> disappeared. how can i revoke it? couldn't find this option in 
> 'Options' online help.
Hi Manuel, may be it is the last tab in the window, is it?
Does
     :set ls=2
do the trick?

see
      :he 'laststatus'

If 'fullscreen' is on it is disabled too and setting 'ls' has no effect.

Cheers,

-- Marian
>
> thanks.
>


From maxauthority at vimperator.org  Fri Nov 27 08:02:15 2009
From: maxauthority at vimperator.org (Stubenschrott, Martin)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 17:02:15 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] status line/bar disappeared, how to revoke?
In-Reply-To: <4B0FF63D.1070508@redhat.com>
References: <4B0F0895.7020207@gmx.de> <4B0FF63D.1070508@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <aaae92100911270802q1491dd91k1b861529f59c1b2@mail.gmail.com>

I think, 'laststatus' does not work yet correctly for ls=1 (and
actually doesn't make sense anyway, we should rename that setting).

I think the problem is that he has either:
a) A broken Firefox profile, then vimperator has more problems than
just the disappearing statusbar
or
b) He has the statusbar hidden by View->Statusbar, then :set
laststatus does not restore it correctly, iirc.

--
Martin

PS: Thanks Marian for answering the mailing list questions :)

From aldana at gmx.de  Fri Nov 27 08:48:09 2009
From: aldana at gmx.de (manuel aldana)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 17:48:09 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] status line/bar disappeared, how to revoke?
In-Reply-To: <aaae92100911270802q1491dd91k1b861529f59c1b2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B0F0895.7020207@gmx.de> <4B0FF63D.1070508@redhat.com>
	<aaae92100911270802q1491dd91k1b861529f59c1b2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B1002C9.4080202@gmx.de>

oh I am blind...

Indeed the checkbox in View->Statusbar was unchecked.

vimperator is cli configure style only, so I didn't search for any menu 
bar settings ;)

thanks.

Stubenschrott, Martin wrote:
> I think, 'laststatus' does not work yet correctly for ls=1 (and
> actually doesn't make sense anyway, we should rename that setting).
>
> I think the problem is that he has either:
> a) A broken Firefox profile, then vimperator has more problems than
> just the disappearing statusbar
> or
> b) He has the statusbar hidden by View->Statusbar, then :set
> laststatus does not restore it correctly, iirc.
>
> --
> Martin
>
> PS: Thanks Marian for answering the mailing list questions :)
> _______________________________________________
> Vimperator mailing list
> Vimperator at mozdev.org
> https://www.mozdev.org/mailman/listinfo/vimperator
>   


-- 
 manuel aldana
 aldana at gmx.de
 software-engineering blog: http://www.aldana-online.de


From gary.katsevman at gmail.com  Fri Nov 27 10:27:55 2009
From: gary.katsevman at gmail.com (Gary Katsevman)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 13:27:55 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] status line/bar disappeared, how to revoke?
In-Reply-To: <4B1002C9.4080202@gmx.de>
References: <4B0F0895.7020207@gmx.de> <4B0FF63D.1070508@redhat.com> 
	<aaae92100911270802q1491dd91k1b861529f59c1b2@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B1002C9.4080202@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <97265dfa0911271027o68721bf5qd91fb7b081cee1a9@mail.gmail.com>

You can reach all the menu items via :emenu as well.

------------------------
Gary Katsevman
Computer Science Undergraduate
Northeastern University
gkatsev at ccs.neu.edu
gkatsev.com



On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 11:48, manuel aldana <aldana at gmx.de> wrote:
> oh I am blind...
>
> Indeed the checkbox in View->Statusbar was unchecked.
>
> vimperator is cli configure style only, so I didn't search for any menu bar
> settings ;)
>
> thanks.
>
> Stubenschrott, Martin wrote:
>>
>> I think, 'laststatus' does not work yet correctly for ls=1 (and
>> actually doesn't make sense anyway, we should rename that setting).
>>
>> I think the problem is that he has either:
>> a) A broken Firefox profile, then vimperator has more problems than
>> just the disappearing statusbar
>> or
>> b) He has the statusbar hidden by View->Statusbar, then :set
>> laststatus does not restore it correctly, iirc.
>>
>> --
>> Martin
>>
>> PS: Thanks Marian for answering the mailing list questions :)
>> _______________________________________________
>> Vimperator mailing list
>> Vimperator at mozdev.org
>> https://www.mozdev.org/mailman/listinfo/vimperator
>>
>
>
> --
> manuel aldana
> aldana at gmx.de
> software-engineering blog: http://www.aldana-online.de
>
> _______________________________________________
> Vimperator mailing list
> Vimperator at mozdev.org
> https://www.mozdev.org/mailman/listinfo/vimperator
>

From crimson.blue.2 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 27 13:31:13 2009
From: crimson.blue.2 at gmail.com (rod)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 15:31:13 -0600
Subject: [Vimperator] usage of macros and profile
Message-ID: <feb7173e0911271331n2f61dbb2scaecfe2a820e1d60@mail.gmail.com>

>> ? Getting two firefox session running simmultaiously, one with vimperator
>> loaded and one without (both running on the some X server).

>You want to use the -no-remote option. See

Perfect!   Thanks so much I overlooked that switch.  All is good.

Rod
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From dotancohen at gmail.com  Sun Nov 29 00:09:25 2009
From: dotancohen at gmail.com (Dotan Cohen)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 10:09:25 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Changing page encoding
Message-ID: <880dece00911290009p5ac9deebyd426c30532b5cf46@mail.gmail.com>

How does one change the page encoding in Vimperator?

-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il

From endflow.net at gmail.com  Sun Nov 29 00:24:18 2009
From: endflow.net at gmail.com (Yuki KODAMA)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 17:24:18 +0900
Subject: [Vimperator] Changing page encoding
In-Reply-To: <880dece00911290009p5ac9deebyd426c30532b5cf46@mail.gmail.com>
References: <880dece00911290009p5ac9deebyd426c30532b5cf46@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <28ba5bda0911290024v3a3d6b2ar3a55c724af920f07@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 17:09, Dotan Cohen <dotancohen at gmail.com> wrote:
> How does one change the page encoding in Vimperator?
>
> --
> Dotan Cohen
>
> http://what-is-what.com
> http://gibberish.co.il
> _______________________________________________
> Vimperator mailing list
> Vimperator at mozdev.org
> https://www.mozdev.org/mailman/listinfo/vimperator
>

Try "encodingSwitcherCommand.js":
http://coderepos.org/share/browser/lang/javascript/vimperator-plugins/trunk/encodingSwitcherCommand.js?rev=35099

-- 
Yuki KODAMA

From dotancohen at gmail.com  Sun Nov 29 01:21:01 2009
From: dotancohen at gmail.com (Dotan Cohen)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 11:21:01 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Changing page encoding
In-Reply-To: <28ba5bda0911290024v3a3d6b2ar3a55c724af920f07@mail.gmail.com>
References: <880dece00911290009p5ac9deebyd426c30532b5cf46@mail.gmail.com>
	<28ba5bda0911290024v3a3d6b2ar3a55c724af920f07@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <880dece00911290121j52d93f20h2881830a1c76430e@mail.gmail.com>

> Try "encodingSwitcherCommand.js":
> http://coderepos.org/share/browser/lang/javascript/vimperator-plugins/trunk/encodingSwitcherCommand.js?rev=35099
>

Thanks Yuki, I will try it.


-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il

From stubenschrott at vimperator.org  Sun Nov 29 02:18:18 2009
From: stubenschrott at vimperator.org (Martin Stubenschrott)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 11:18:18 +0100
Subject: [Vimperator] Changing page encoding
In-Reply-To: <880dece00911290121j52d93f20h2881830a1c76430e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <880dece00911290009p5ac9deebyd426c30532b5cf46@mail.gmail.com>	<28ba5bda0911290024v3a3d6b2ar3a55c724af920f07@mail.gmail.com>
	<880dece00911290121j52d93f20h2881830a1c76430e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B124A6A.6010600@vimperator.org>

Newer vimperators also have a :set encoding command.

Try :set encoding=<Tab> to see possible values.

From dotancohen at gmail.com  Sun Nov 29 02:34:35 2009
From: dotancohen at gmail.com (Dotan Cohen)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 12:34:35 +0200
Subject: [Vimperator] Changing page encoding
In-Reply-To: <4B124A6A.6010600@vimperator.org>
References: <880dece00911290009p5ac9deebyd426c30532b5cf46@mail.gmail.com>
	<28ba5bda0911290024v3a3d6b2ar3a55c724af920f07@mail.gmail.com>
	<880dece00911290121j52d93f20h2881830a1c76430e@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B124A6A.6010600@vimperator.org>
Message-ID: <880dece00911290234p503f0c05sbca26a26f34fffc6@mail.gmail.com>

> Newer vimperators also have a :set encoding command.
>
> Try :set encoding=<Tab> to see possible values.

Great, thanks!


-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il

From maglione.k at gmail.com  Sun Nov 29 13:36:03 2009
From: maglione.k at gmail.com (Kris Maglione)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 16:36:03 -0500
Subject: [Vimperator] usage of macros and profile manager
In-Reply-To: <20091127143252.GA19725@trs>
References: <20091127143252.GA19725@trs>
Message-ID: <20091129213602.GA15347@jg>

On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 08:32:52AM -0600, Rod wrote:
>I've tried to run the cron job as another (linux) user but have not been
>succesful due to lack of X session running for that user.

Try Xvfb.

>   Getting two firefox session running simmultaiously, one with vimperator
>loaded and one without (both running on the some X server).

As mentioned previously, firefox -P profile -no-remote

>  Having all firefox sessions start wtih vimperator loaded and create a script
>to start the macro from cron.  I don't know how to do this.  Can I write some
>logic statment in the .vimperratorrc file to only run the macro at specific
>times.

You can use the -vimperator command-line flag.


You don't really want to do any of the above, though. Use wget 
or curl. If you can't figure out the proper commandline, use 
the attached script. It should work for just about anything 
other than a JavaScript link or a login session with timeouts.

-- 
Kris Maglione

The camel has evolved to be relatively self-sufficient.  On the other
hand, the camel has not evolved to smell good.  Neither has Perl.
	--Larry Wall

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