[Project_owners] MS Office and Seamonkey

Pete Collins pete at mozdev.org
Sun Sep 14 11:44:58 EDT 2003

Steve, I just have to comment on the "points" you raise. Everything you 
site is UI related. The ideas you site were exaustivly debated back in 
1999 in the mozilla UI newsgroup. Where a growing reaction to the real 
crappy direction the Netscape driven Mozilla UI was heading. This 
insurrection lead to a community driven ground up XUL based xpi browser 
package later named Aphrodite. In a sense Aphrodite was the *first* 
Firebird and the core developers behind Firebird today know this piece 
of history well.  At it's peak, Aphrodite had a much simpler, easy to 
use UI and quickly surpassed the current SeaMonkey browser in features. 
Why, because it was community driven. Good ideas were put to use and 
things were implemented as a result. There was a great deal of 
enthusiasm, because Aphrodite had become a voice of the open source 
community at the time, which in turn drew in even more new developers. 
It was clear and uncontested, Aphrodite was the encapsulation of all the 
great ideas the were permeating in the Mozilla UI newsgroup. In fact 
Aphrodite actualy beat Mozilla SeaMonkey to skin switching. At the time, 
you could get Aphrodite w/ a bunch of skins before skins/themes where 
even "correctly" implemented in Mozilla. And the Aphrodite "xul 
morphing" which it was later called, was sharply criticizded by many 
Netscape engineers.

You are directing your points to the existing owner of Aphrodite. 
Aphrodite like most other Mozdev projects fell by the way side because 
of the very problem we are discussing. Unless you have an *unlimited* 
amount of time to work on a Mozilla project, you will be spending all of 
your time trying to keep your app actually working like John stated 
clearly in another post.  So the reality is Mozilla tends to works 
against the application developer. It was clearly stated that "Mozilla 
is not intended to be an Application Development Platform". MAD is 
something born out of the open source community. Apps like Chatzilla, 
Jabberzilla, Forumzilla, etc were all created outside of Netscape in the 
open source wild.

I don't think anyone here is debating about the SeaMonkey UI. John and I 
and many others were not only unhappy w/ the SM UI, we were obviously 
proactive about doing something about it. The UI is not the issue here. 
  You are "preaching to the choir".

One thing Microsoft does right is provide a base set of dll's (core 
libraries) w/ clearly documented, easy to use, stable, API's so 
developers can do what they need to do "write killer apps". This is 
where Mozilla falls way short and the mistakes of the past keep 
repeating themselves. Instead of providing a core stable base 
architecture, with easy to use API's, we are wittnessing "!000 browsers 
bloom syndrome", "Bloom Syndrome" or "BS" for short.  :-)

Because of "BS" Mozilla.org is making some obvious mistakes. Instead of 
making the effort be to release the birds as xpi packages that run on 
top of a stable GRE/MRE, they are following the same monolithic 
SeaMonkey "bloatware" path and releasing full redundant distributions of 
the same core libraries. This strike me as silly to say the least.

So I see an obvious confilct of interestes here. "Mozilla As Platform" 
and "Bloom Syndrome".

So as far as direction goes, we can either read the *MAP* or just keep 
putting up w/ *BS*.  :-)

Stay Amused.


Pete Collins

More information about the Project_owners mailing list