From kartik.nadiger at gmail.com Tue Jul 3 02:48:16 2007
From: kartik.nadiger at gmail.com (Kartik Nadiger)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 15:18:16 +0530
Subject: [Padma] Kannada font encodings
Message-ID: <3de85a190707030248y2de7c711p2108006f1e448341@mail.gmail.com>
Hi,
I am attaching some new Kannada font encodings and also the updated Nandi
class. I am also attaching the list of websites using these fonts.
Thanks,
Kartik
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From vsrawat at gmail.com Fri Jul 6 21:58:56 2007
From: vsrawat at gmail.com (V S Rawat)
Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 10:28:56 +0530
Subject: [Padma] Padma menus and website content updations
Message-ID: <468F1D90.8090003@gmail.com>
1.
http://padma.mozdev.org/ site says:
"Padma can automatically transform web pages that use the above dynamic
font schemes to Unicode. Configuration can be done by clicking on
Tools-> *Extensions* ->Padma."
Now that FF and TB both had changed their nomenclature, please change
the word *Extensions* to *Add-ons*
2.
It is odd that Padma doesn't have any direct entry in Tools menu
dropdown. We necessarily have to into Add-ons window that takes time in
opening and then in searching Padma in it.
If it is not too difficult to incorporate, I feel that it will be
helpful to have a Padma group in the Tools menu dropdown. Main options
can be given in a subgroup of it, especially the padma Options. And also
the manual transform settings which are currently accessible only
through right click menu.
3.
Rightclick menu directly lists all the selected settings of padma and it
could go very, very long if a person has selected all or most of the
settings. It would help if rightclick menu rather has a padma group and
the settings of padma are clubbed as a subgroup of that.
4. I went to http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~navin/india/songs/isongs/1/158.html
that has a hindi song written in itrans (mentioned later below). I
selected the itrans part, rightclicked, and clicked on "Transform to
Unicode".
Nothing happened.
Can't we transform ITRANS directly to unicode? Why?
or is the transformation looking for some tags or Encoding setting that
is not there in this part? What are they?
I couldn't find any mention of such tags or encoding on padma page. The
page just reads:
"Padma's manual transformer is accessible whenever the context menu is
launched after selecting a region in the page (typically by a right
click). This menu is also configurable from the options window.
Configurable options include schemes (RTS, ITRANS, ISCII), TSCII, TAB,
TAM and scripts (Telugu, Malayalam, Tamil, Devanagari, Gujarati and
Kannada). One menu item - 'Transform to Unicode' is always displayed.
The selection can span arbitrary page elements."
Last month also, I had faced a problem in conversion of a page that was
solved by discussion here that some encodings needed to be changed. But,
I do not find that mentioned on the page. Hope that is updated at proper
place in the website so that new people can do it and don't have to
access the mailing list. You would realize that most of the people who
face a problem just leave the extension and don't bother to locate,
become member, access mailing lists.
5. I need to convert the itrans part of the above to Unicode. Manually,
because I also want to see the english itrans part. How to convert from
itrans to unicode using padma?
6. If we are specifically selecting some Padma related option, and Padma
doesn't find anything to work upon, it should display a message window
saying that what it was looking for and what it didn't found (tag, font,
encodings) and should also suggest some minimum things how to rectify
that. Maybe give a link to help or webpage where that "nothing happens"
is discussed.
If a user has specifically selected some Padma related option, then
trust that user is right and it is padma which could not find something
that it was looking for.
7. I selected the itrans part in the above page and clicked itrans to
devnagari. It worked. giving the itrans and devnagari lines together
with my comments in "---":
--
aaj puraanii raaho.n se, koI mujhe aavaaz na de
??? ?????? ????? ??, ??? ???? ????? ? ??
--- in above, there should not be any halanth with j in aaj. itrans
allows to remove one ending a. so there is no need to write it aaja but
aaj is sufficient.
--- in above, z in aavaaz should convert not to that letter but to urdu
z with a nukta.
dard me.n Duube giit na de, gam kaa sisakataa saaz na de
????? ??? ???? ???? ? ??, ??? ?? ?????? ???? ? ??
biite dino.n kii yaad thii jiname.n, mai.n vo taraane bhuul chukaa
???? ????? ?? ???? ?? ??????, ??? ?? ????? ???? ????
aaj na_ii ma.nzil hai merii, kal ke Thikaane bhuul chukaa
??? ?_? ?????? ?? ????, ??? ?? ?????? ???? ????
--- "_" underscore is the allowed "breaker" in itrans. it means that
previous set of syllables have ended and new have started. thus it
should not be retained or transliterated. rather it should reset the
itransliteration. (otherwsie "naii" would have got interpreted as nai_i
as itrans rule is to take the longest valid string)
na vo dil na sanam, na vo diin-dharam, ab duur huu.N saare gunaaho.n se
? ?? ???? ? ????, ? ?? ????-????, ??? ???? ??? ???? ??????? ??
jiivan badalaa duniyaa badalii, man ko anokhaa GYaan milaa
????? ???? ?????? ????, ??? ?? ????? ?????? ????
aaj mujhe apane hii dil me.n, ek nayaa inasaan milaa
??? ???? ???? ?? ???? ???, ??? ??? ?????? ????
--- that is wrong ? for e. e, as per itrans is without that maatra.
pahu.Nchaa huu.N vahaa.N, nahii.n duur jahaa.N, bhagavaan kii nek
nigaaho.n se
?????? ??? ????, ???? ???? ????, ?????? ?? ???? ??????? ??
TuuT chuke sab pyaar ke ba.ndhan, aaj koii za.njiir nahii.n
???? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ?????, ??? ??? ?????? ????
shiishaa-e-dil me.n aramaano.n kii, aaj koii tasviir nahii.n
????-?-???? ??? ??????? ??, ??? ??? ??????? ????
ab shaad huu.N mai.n, aazaad huu.N mai.n, kuchh kaam nahii.n hai aaho.n se
??? ???? ??? ???, ????? ??? ???, ???? ???? ???? ?? ???? ??
same errors get repeated several times.
It is a long mail. Hope you would spare your precious time to have a
look at it.
Thanks for a wonderful extension.
--
Rawat
From vsrawat at gmail.com Fri Jul 6 22:21:58 2007
From: vsrawat at gmail.com (V S Rawat)
Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 10:51:58 +0530
Subject: [Padma] Padma menus and website content updations
In-Reply-To: <468F1D90.8090003@gmail.com>
References: <468F1D90.8090003@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <468F22F6.9050806@gmail.com>
http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~navin/india/songs/isongs/1/158.html
Some more things I noted now.
8.
I went to Tools-addons-padma-options. Enable Auto Transform was ticked.
I went to Update.
I added the said site "http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/" in the box, retained
"Default" in the next box, clicked on Add. it appeared in the lower box.
clicked OK, OK and closed.
I refreshed the above page. Nothing happened. No auto-transform to
unicode/ devanagari.
The char encoding was Unicode UTF-8.
I changed encoding to Western ISO-8859-1 and refreshed. Nothing happened.
I changed encoding to Western Windows-1252 and refreshed. Nothing happened.
9.
I again went to padma - options - update.
I clicked on the name of the URI "http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/" that I had
just added.
I didn't find any option to "Edit" my settings. URI could have appeared
in the box above with its script, and I should be able to edit it. But
such option is not there.
I just have to "Remove site" and re-enter it.
Please provide option to edit a site that we have already entered. That
will surely help if we just want to change the Script for a site.
10.
ok. I removed the site, re-entered it, and this time went into the
Script options box.
What exactly is script and what is meant by Default?
There is no itrans or unicode entries in that box though I wonder
whether these two could be called script.
I mean, suppose there is a HTML page in shusha and I want that to be
transformed to Unicode, what should I add there?
now, suppose there is a PLAIN TEXT page in shusha and I want that to be
transformed to Unicode, what should I add there? It would have no tags
to tell padma the source, but I know that the website uses Shusha and
padma does have methods to transform Shusha to Unicode. So, how can I
tell padma not to look for any tags/ encodings of this page and go ahead
transform whatever contents are there into unicode, assuming that it
is in Shusha.
Similar requirements could be for ITRANS encoded pages which are needed
to be transformed to unicode. Even the html pages having itrans don't
have any tag to mark the beginning or end of itrans. itrans is basically
english plain text and the html page just has it. So, how can I
auto-transform a site which I know has plain text pages in ITRANS.
Of course itrans files have non-itrans part also, but never mind. I can
read the english non-itrans part first and then read the unicode part
after padma transformed it.
11.
Anyway. This time I selected Script=Devnagari. Saved it, and refreshed
the page. No auto transform. What gives?
Thanks.
--
Rawat
From vsrawat at gmail.com Fri Jul 6 22:37:05 2007
From: vsrawat at gmail.com (V S Rawat)
Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 11:07:05 +0530
Subject: [Padma] Padma menus and website content updations
In-Reply-To: <468F22F6.9050806@gmail.com>
References: <468F1D90.8090003@gmail.com> <468F22F6.9050806@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <468F2681.4040702@gmail.com>
Some more things.
If padma needs some specific encoding or specific script to trigger the
transformation, why doesn't padma define some tags for such encodings
and scripts and codify auto-transform on the basis of that.
Please see. encoding is a browser default that we set once and forget.
We can't define encoding for each site/ page, nor does browser remembers
if we had previously set some encoding for some site/page. hence, it is
not convenient if padma gets triggerred on some particular encodings.
Maybe padma could give option to users to create the site/page -
encoding combinations in padma's options so that auto-transformation
gets triggered if the site matches padma's site list and padma can know
the encoding from what padma has saved.
Similarly padma can define tags like and
auto-transforms pages where these tags are encountered.
Websites who find it helpful to have their contents auto-transformed
through padma might start following it.
And, even if websites don't follow it, padma has grown beyond websites
and people are (at least I am) using padma to convert things to Unicode
by creating html pages, including source text that needs to be
converted. Then I load that in browser and padma should auto transform
it. I will surely use padma defined tags if it helps me in getting what
I want.
I am even ready to use a tag in the pages that I create
for transformation if it helps me.
please give it a thought.
And, why use that hi-fi word TRANSFORM. The net standard for such things
is CONVERT. :-) But no problem, I can live with it.
Thanks for your patience.
--
Rawat
From vsrawat at gmail.com Fri Jul 6 22:56:04 2007
From: vsrawat at gmail.com (V S Rawat)
Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 11:26:04 +0530
Subject: [Padma] Padma menus and website content updations
In-Reply-To: <468F2681.4040702@gmail.com>
References: <468F1D90.8090003@gmail.com> <468F22F6.9050806@gmail.com>
<468F2681.4040702@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <468F2AF4.6020605@gmail.com>
I have selecte only "Devanagri" as Scripts and only ITRANS as Schemes in
Padma in TB.
however when i select something and rightclick I also get the following
options:
ISCII to Bengali
ISCII to Gurmukhi
ITRANS to Gurmukhi
TAB to Tamil
I even went to config editor in TB and set those options to false which
I didn't need (somehow they were appearing as true in config editor even
when they were appearing off in padma options). Still it is showing the
above unwanted options.
How to remove these?
Thanks.
--
Rawat
From hpnadig at gmail.com Sat Jul 7 00:54:50 2007
From: hpnadig at gmail.com (H P Nadig)
Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 13:24:50 +0530
Subject: [Padma] Kannada font encodings
In-Reply-To: <3de85a190707030248y2de7c711p2108006f1e448341@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3de85a190707030248y2de7c711p2108006f1e448341@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1183794890.13733.101.camel@localhost>
On Tue, 2007-07-03 at 15:18 +0530, Kartik Nadiger wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am attaching some new Kannada font encodings and also the updated Nandi
> class. I am also attaching the list of websites using these fonts.
Just out of curiosity, the attachment had just a text file with some
URLs. I had been working on adding Akruti Padmini (used by Prajavani),
but left the mapping incomplete. If you're interested in continuing it,
please mail me off the list.
Cheers,
- h.p.
--
http://sampada.net - Sampada Community
From vnagarjuna at gmail.com Sat Jul 7 06:48:24 2007
From: vnagarjuna at gmail.com (Nagarjuna Venna)
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 09:48:24 -0400
Subject: [Padma] Padma menus and website content updations
In-Reply-To: <468F1D90.8090003@gmail.com>
References: <468F1D90.8090003@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <89531ffe0707070648v76c28070x909ec0f60eca4386@mail.gmail.com>
Thanks for your comments. I will try to address as many as possible
here. At the end of this, we can hopefully agree upon a list of action
iterms.
On 7/7/07, V S Rawat wrote:
> 1.
> Now that FF and TB both had changed their nomenclature, please change
> the word *Extensions* to *Add-ons*
I fixed this at the Addon home page but not at Mozdev. Will do this.
>
> 2.
> It is odd that Padma doesn't have any direct entry in Tools menu
> dropdown. We necessarily have to into Add-ons window that takes time in
> opening and then in searching Padma in it.
I think addons should live under addons. I, personally, wouldn't like
extensions that keep adding themselves to top level menus. I think
thats what extension developers manual recommends too.
> 3.
> Rightclick menu directly lists all the selected settings of padma and it
> could go very, very long if a person has selected all or most of the
> settings. It would help if rightclick menu rather has a padma group and
> the settings of padma are clubbed as a subgroup of that.
This has been on the wishlist for a while. Never got around to doing it.
>
> 4. I went to http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~navin/india/songs/isongs/1/158.html
>
> that has a hindi song written in itrans (mentioned later below). I
> selected the itrans part, rightclicked, and clicked on "Transform to
> Unicode".
>
> Nothing happened.
Padma has two modes - conversion of dynamic fonts which happens when
the text is written to be displayed in a font that it understands.
This 'writing' can happen in many ways - wrapping in FONT tag is one
mechanism. Padma supports all such mechanisms.
The second mode is support for transliteration. The source is in Roman
Script and there is no way for Padma to know what the method of
transliteration is. So you have to tell Padma what the source is.
>
> Can't we transform ITRANS directly to unicode? Why?
Yes, you can directly transform. You just need to click on the right button.
> 5. I need to convert the itrans part of the above to Unicode. Manually,
> because I also want to see the english itrans part. How to convert from
> itrans to unicode using padma?
Click on Transform from ITRANS to whatever script you want.
>
> 6. If we are specifically selecting some Padma related option, and Padma
> doesn't find anything to work upon, it should display a message window
> saying that what it was looking for and what it didn't found (tag, font,
> encodings) and should also suggest some minimum things how to rectify
> that. Maybe give a link to help or webpage where that "nothing happens"
> is discussed.
You are welcome to write a manual. I just don't have the cycles to do
it. I agree with your arguments in general and it is unfortunate that
no one can do it.
>
> If a user has specifically selected some Padma related option, then
> trust that user is right and it is padma which could not find something
> that it was looking for.
That's a philosophical point.
>
> 7. I selected the itrans part in the above page and clicked itrans to
>
> same errors get repeated several times.
All these are well known bugs in ITRANS transformer. No one really
uses it, so they never got fixed. I really need help in fixing this
stuff - so I would appreciate any help.
Thanks,
Nagarjuna
From vnagarjuna at gmail.com Sat Jul 7 06:50:43 2007
From: vnagarjuna at gmail.com (Nagarjuna Venna)
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 09:50:43 -0400
Subject: [Padma] Padma menus and website content updations
In-Reply-To: <468F2AF4.6020605@gmail.com>
References: <468F1D90.8090003@gmail.com> <468F22F6.9050806@gmail.com>
<468F2681.4040702@gmail.com> <468F2AF4.6020605@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <89531ffe0707070650p4166e175gd3bd3d0ac388b0fc@mail.gmail.com>
On 7/7/07, V S Rawat wrote:
> I have selecte only "Devanagri" as Scripts and only ITRANS as Schemes in
> Padma in TB.
>
> however when i select something and rightclick I also get the following
> options:
>
> ISCII to Bengali
> ISCII to Gurmukhi
> ITRANS to Gurmukhi
> TAB to Tamil
>
> I even went to config editor in TB and set those options to false which
> I didn't need (somehow they were appearing as true in config editor even
> when they were appearing off in padma options). Still it is showing the
> above unwanted options.
>
> How to remove these?
>
> Thanks.
This is a bug fixed in 0.4.11. Please try with that version.
Thanks,
Nagarjuna
From vnagarjuna at gmail.com Sat Jul 7 06:57:24 2007
From: vnagarjuna at gmail.com (Nagarjuna Venna)
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 09:57:24 -0400
Subject: [Padma] Padma menus and website content updations
In-Reply-To: <468F22F6.9050806@gmail.com>
References: <468F1D90.8090003@gmail.com> <468F22F6.9050806@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <89531ffe0707070657k7c09c2a6p669ef7fc08e35309@mail.gmail.com>
As I mentioned in the previous mail, Padma does two completely
different things and you are mixing the two up. The auto
transformation is *only* for pages that have dynamic fonts, the page
you refer to has no dynamic fonts and so no there is nothing to do.
You have to use the manual transformer whenever you want to transform
from transliteration schemes. I agree things like these need to go
into a manual or help page.
> 9.
>
> Please provide option to edit a site that we have already entered. That
> will surely help if we just want to change the Script for a site.
You can right click on a site and change the output script. That is
the only option provided because that is the only thing that makes
sense there. You may want to fix any typos instead of typing the whole
thing again if you made a mistake with the URL and will be a good
addition.
>
> 10.
> ok. I removed the site, re-entered it, and this time went into the
> Script options box.
>
> What exactly is script and what is meant by Default?
Script list allows you to choose the script to which you want the
dynamic font in the pages for that URL to be transformed. Default says
do the regular transform - Eenadu pages are in Telugu, Dainik Bhaskar
is in Devanagari etc. If you want to read Bhaskar in Malayalam, you
will pick it there.
>
> There is no itrans or unicode entries in that box though I wonder
> whether these two could be called script.
As I explanied above, it makes no sense to have them here.
> now, suppose there is a PLAIN TEXT page in shusha and I want that to be
> transformed to Unicode, what should I add there? It would have no tags
> to tell padma the source, but I know that the website uses Shusha and
> padma does have methods to transform Shusha to Unicode. So, how can I
> tell padma not to look for any tags/ encodings of this page and go ahead
> transform whatever contents are there into unicode, assuming that it
> is in Shusha.
You have to do this manually.
Thanks,
Nagarjuna
From vsrawat at gmail.com Sat Jul 7 09:30:13 2007
From: vsrawat at gmail.com (V S Rawat)
Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 22:00:13 +0530
Subject: [Padma] Padma menus and website content updations
In-Reply-To: <89531ffe0707070648v76c28070x909ec0f60eca4386@mail.gmail.com>
References: <468F1D90.8090003@gmail.com>
<89531ffe0707070648v76c28070x909ec0f60eca4386@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <468FBF95.80201@gmail.com>
On 7/7/2007 07:18 PM India Time, _Nagarjuna Venna_ wrote:
> You are welcome to write a manual. I just don't have the cycles to do
> it. I agree with your arguments in general and it is unfortunate that
> no one can do it.
OK. I will make a manual sort of thing depending on what I understand
about the working of padma and send that to this list. Members can
suggest what more needs to be included.
>> If a user has specifically selected some Padma related option, then
>> trust that user is right and it is padma which could not find something
>> that it was looking for.
>
> That's a philosophical point.
:-)
> All these are well known bugs in ITRANS transformer. No one really
> uses it, so they never got fixed. I really need help in fixing this
> stuff - so I would appreciate any help.
OK. I hope that in the process of preparing a manual, such issues will
get discussed upon and would get sorted out.
I have made conversion maps of several fonts and I wanted to add them to
Padma, but whenever started looking into padma.jar, the thing seemed
complicated to me and I stopped. Hope this time I would go ahead to some
way.
--
Rawat
From vsrawat at gmail.com Sat Jul 7 09:36:07 2007
From: vsrawat at gmail.com (V S Rawat)
Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 22:06:07 +0530
Subject: [Padma] Padma menus and website content updations
In-Reply-To: <89531ffe0707070650p4166e175gd3bd3d0ac388b0fc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <468F1D90.8090003@gmail.com>
<468F22F6.9050806@gmail.com> <468F2681.4040702@gmail.com>
<468F2AF4.6020605@gmail.com>
<89531ffe0707070650p4166e175gd3bd3d0ac388b0fc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <468FC0F7.6000506@gmail.com>
On 7/7/2007 07:20 PM India Time, _Nagarjuna Venna_ wrote:
>> however when i select something and rightclick I also get the following
>> options:
>>
>> ISCII to Bengali
>> ISCII to Gurmukhi
>> ITRANS to Gurmukhi
>> TAB to Tamil
>>
>> I even went to config editor in TB and set those options to false which
>> I didn't need (somehow they were appearing as true in config editor even
>> when they were appearing off in padma options). Still it is showing the
>> above unwanted options.
>>
>> How to remove these?
>>
>> Thanks.
>
> This is a bug fixed in 0.4.11. Please try with that version.
>
I have 0.4.11
Could you please check whether the change was done in TB version also,
or did that happen only in FF version. I assume xpi-s are different for
both versions. If not, then, this bug survives in TB.
Thanks.
--
Rawat