From ryan at ryanthiessen.com Wed Nov 19 23:10:20 2003 From: ryan at ryanthiessen.com (Ryan Thiessen) Date: Thu Nov 20 19:56:43 2003 Subject: [Mozmanual] bug reports Message-ID: <1069312220.3fbc68dc67574@www.threeducks.net> I just read the Draft 0.4 at http://mozmanual.mozdev.org/source.html and noticed some issues with it. First of all there seems to be a lack of clarity of focus to the document. The title of the document suggests that the guide is directed at first time users, but the IRC and Composer sections suggest that instead the document is aimed at business users. Similarily, on page 2 (numbered page i) it suggests that IRC is not permitted in the department. This might be true of some departments, but the wording is not appropriate for a general purpose document. Also, on page 7 there is an issue where the labels on the legend don't match up with the schematic just above it. The cause seems to be two items labeled "B". Additionally, the numbering system seems to have problems. It starts without a page number, then switches to lowercase roman numerals for i-iv, but then suddenly jumps to 6 and continues to 52. There is also a formatting issue with the Appendix, as it appears to use tabs for spacing but does not use justified tabs to make the page numbers appear cleanly as in the table of contents. Speaking of the table of contents I also suggest that you use hyperlinks with the page numbers as that would be very useful to a user interested in a specific feature. Finally, I suggest that you release the .swc file under a free documentation license of your discretion to allow other maintainers to build on what you have started in the case that others want to customize the document for other purposes (perhaps as a custom guide for their organization, or whatever) or in different formats. Thanks a lot for all of the hard work you've obviously put into this so far. Cheers, -rt- From adam at fvforces.net Thu Nov 20 18:49:59 2003 From: adam at fvforces.net (Adam Dunn) Date: Thu Nov 20 21:56:28 2003 Subject: [Mozmanual] Other Errors Message-ID: <3FBD7D57.1060002@fvforces.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mozdev.org/pipermail/mozmanual/attachments/20031120/2248a8cb/attachment.htm From kquiggle at earthlink.net Thu Nov 20 22:03:07 2003 From: kquiggle at earthlink.net (Kevin Quiggle) Date: Thu Nov 20 22:09:48 2003 Subject: [Mozmanual] Other Errors In-Reply-To: <3FBD7D57.1060002@fvforces.net> References: <3FBD7D57.1060002@fvforces.net> Message-ID: <3FBD806B.2000605@earthlink.net> Adam Dunn wrote: > I'd also like to point out that on page 10, for the internet search > results, point number three, in the parentheses, maybe it should say > "note, this option will open a new browser window with the search > results from your preferred _search engine_". > On page 16, the picture descriptions are opposite what they should be. > "The bottom window shows text in the original size. The top window > shows text that has been re-sized to make it larger." This should be > opposite. The caption, however, is fine. > > This is a great document, and I can't wait for the next revision, so I > can show it to my parents, and get them hooked on Mozilla! > > Adam Dunn Good catches Adam - thanks. Next revision coming soon. From kquiggle at earthlink.net Thu Nov 20 22:05:25 2003 From: kquiggle at earthlink.net (Kevin Quiggle) Date: Thu Nov 20 22:12:03 2003 Subject: [Mozmanual] Re: Mozmanual Sources In-Reply-To: <16317.13378.886375.552150@tux.design.amis.com> References: <16317.13378.886375.552150@tux.design.amis.com> Message-ID: <3FBD80F5.5050802@earthlink.net> toorffej@yahoo.com wrote: >Kevin Quiggle; > > Would you release the sources (i.e., the StarOffice files) to your > Mozmanual project on the web? I can't edit or correct a PDF. > > Thanks, > > Jeff Root > toorffej@yahoo.com > > > Jeff - I plan to post the StarOffice files shortly. In the meanwhile, note that the PDF is in text format, so you can cut and paste from the PDF. From kquiggle at earthlink.net Thu Nov 20 22:09:48 2003 From: kquiggle at earthlink.net (Kevin Quiggle) Date: Thu Nov 20 22:16:05 2003 Subject: [Mozmanual] Re: draft 4 typo In-Reply-To: <87158F957601744B8AB94383033D787A06B1F4@TINSLEYMAIL> References: <87158F957601744B8AB94383033D787A06B1F4@TINSLEYMAIL> Message-ID: <3FBD81FC.7000701@earthlink.net> Kevin Hobbs wrote: >typo in draft 4: > >Figure 2: Schematic view of the browser window, with labeled parts. > A.Menu Bar > B.Navigation Toolbar > B.Location bar > C.Personal toolbar > D.Sidebar > E.Sidebar handle > F.Tabs (multiple windows) > G.Browser window > H.Component bar > I.Status bar > >NOTICE the duplicate "B" (going from A to I) >should index the 2nd B to become C, >then previous C becomes D, etc, until >finally old I becomes new J > >then the letters will match up with the drawing :) --kevin > > > > > > Kevin - Thanks - I read that page three times and still missed that. I'm also thinking about replacing the list with call-outs on the figure.(similar to figure 1). From kquiggle at earthlink.net Thu Nov 20 23:40:51 2003 From: kquiggle at earthlink.net (Kevin Quiggle) Date: Thu Nov 20 23:47:13 2003 Subject: [Mozmanual] bug reports In-Reply-To: <1069312220.3fbc68dc67574@www.threeducks.net> References: <1069312220.3fbc68dc67574@www.threeducks.net> Message-ID: <3FBD9753.1080802@earthlink.net> Ryan Thiessen wrote: >I just read the Draft 0.4 at http://mozmanual.mozdev.org/source.html and >noticed >some issues with it. First of all there seems to be a lack of clarity of focus >to the document. The title of the document suggests that the guide is directed >at first time users, but the IRC and Composer sections suggest that instead the >document is aimed at business users. Similarily, on page 2 (numbered page i) >it >suggests that IRC is not permitted in the department. This might be true of >some departments, but the wording is not appropriate for a general purpose >document. > >Also, on page 7 there is an issue where the labels on the legend don't match up >with the schematic just above it. The cause seems to be two items labeled "B". > >Additionally, the numbering system seems to have problems. It starts without a >page number, then switches to lowercase roman numerals for i-iv, but then >suddenly jumps to 6 and continues to 52. > >There is also a formatting issue with the Appendix, as it appears to use tabs >for spacing but does not use justified tabs to make the page numbers appear >cleanly as in the table of contents. Speaking of the table of contents I also >suggest that you use hyperlinks with the page numbers as that would be very >useful to a user interested in a specific feature. > >Finally, I suggest that you release the .swc file under a free documentation >license of your discretion to allow other maintainers to build on what you have >started in the case that others want to customize the document for other >purposes (perhaps as a custom guide for their organization, or whatever) or in >different formats. > >Thanks a lot for all of the hard work you've obviously put into this so far. > >Cheers, >-rt- >_______________________________________________ >Mozmanual mailing list >Mozmanual@mozdev.org >http://mozdev.org/mailman/listinfo/mozmanual > > > Ryan - Thanks for the comments. To respond: The target audience is corporate users of Mozilla, but I did try to keep it as generic as possible in the hopes that a broader audience would find it useful. Page 7: Corrected this. Page numbering - you're right - I need to work on this. TOC and hyperlinks - good idea. May not show up in the next draft, but I'll put it on the to-do list. Source document - I plan to post this as soon as I find a copyright license I like. Should be soon. From jg307 at cam.ac.uk Fri Nov 21 10:28:47 2003 From: jg307 at cam.ac.uk (James Graham) Date: Fri Nov 21 05:35:21 2003 Subject: [Mozmanual] Mozmanual draft 4 Message-ID: <3FBDE8DF.6070603@cam.ac.uk> First of all; this looks very very good, in general. This is a list of the issues I've noticed going through it (the 'I' key on my keyboard is being a bit tempramental, so there may be some missing in what follows). (page numbers are based on PDF page numbers, not those prnted on the pages) Page 1 You might need permssion to use the dino logo; I know there was a draft trademarks policy to the effect that only official Mozilla.org products would be allowed the logo. You could try looking on the new website. Page 2 The part about Address Book being able to look up "any email address in the city of Detroit" doesn't make any sense to me - can it only look up addresses in Detroit? If so, that doesn't seem worth mentioning, unless you specifically have a use for the document in Detroit. The part about IRC not being allowed in the department isn't generally true. Page 3 A URL for the quotes would be nice Page 5 The "Free Mozilla Software" seems misleading - it suggests that people might have to pay for non-personal use. You might be better off mentioning the fact that it's open source and anyone can use it for free. Then mention that you may even modify the program and redistribute it, as long as you comply wth the MPL. Page 9 The tab bar isn't shown by default, unless there are multiple tabs open. You should mentiion this, in case it confuses people. Page 10 Need to mention how to set search engine preferences The list of ways of searching is not comprehensive (this might be a good thing, mpt counted 7(!) different ways of searching in Mozilla) A picture of the location bar based search is likely to be more informative than a picture of a context menu as context menus are found in all apps whereas search from the location bar is not. Page 11 File menu? Page 15 You can also hide display the sidebar via one of the menus - that's more intuitive than F9 for most people Page 17 Orbit is called 'Orbit 3+1' as far as I recall. t might be nice to show a theme that doesn't look quite so much like 'modern' as orbit does. Page 24 'Browser screen' should probably be something else. Page 26 Junk mail controls are great, but should they really be first? I've run out of time, more later... From jg307 at cam.ac.uk Fri Nov 21 13:39:20 2003 From: jg307 at cam.ac.uk (James Graham) Date: Fri Nov 21 08:45:35 2003 Subject: [Mozmanual] Mozmanual draft 4 [continued] In-Reply-To: <3FBDE8DF.6070603@cam.ac.uk> References: <3FBDE8DF.6070603@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3FBE1588.6050804@cam.ac.uk> > I've run out of time, more later... Page 27 It might be worth mentioning that, initially at least, you might prefer not to move junk mail, since the filters won't be very accurate (although this seems to be mentioned on page 28) Page 39+40 You don't need to explain why you're not discussing Composer + Chatzilla. Just state at the start that you will concentrate on Nav+Mail+Address book. Stating that "chat software is typically blocked" is very presumtuious; some businesses might make heavy use of chat or IM, even if only for internal communications. Page 42 It's not clear from the text what the difference between a bookmarklet and an extension is. You could mention that bookmarklets typically work like a boomark, but instead of bookmarking a page, they bookmark a webbrowser function, like a simple macro in an office program. Extensions typically integrate better with the browser and are loaded automatically on startup. Page 43 A URL would be good. Some screenshots might help too. In general, I might be tempted to change the examples from bugzilla examples to a more commonly used site (e.g. bbc.co.uk or the NYT (if it has a search), or yahoo! or something like that) In general, the document seems to be well written and clear. The screenshots are very good and labelling likely to be very helpful. The only real problem I can see is that it seems to be a bit haphazard in which topics are explained and how much detail each topic is given. (I appreciate that it's only version 0.4, so maybe this will change). You seem to have focussed mainly on features that Mozilla has but other products do not (tabbed browsing, junk mail, etc.), which is fine, as long as you state that in advance. However, some sections, such as that on mail folders, have more basic information in them that should be familar to most people who have used a similar program. If only highlighting Moz-specific features is the intention, the document isn't really a manual, but something more like a hybrid getting started guide / advocacy document / switching to Mozilla guide. Some of the sections such as those on tabbed browing, searching and junk mail filtering are very detailed, whilst other sections such as that on image blocking merely state that the feature exists and expect the user to work out the (often quite complex) process for using it themselves. The list of keyboard shortcuts is likely to be very helpful. From kquiggle at earthlink.net Fri Nov 21 11:24:10 2003 From: kquiggle at earthlink.net (Kevin Quiggle) Date: Fri Nov 21 11:31:04 2003 Subject: [Mozmanual] Mozmanual draft 4 [continued] In-Reply-To: <3FBE1588.6050804@cam.ac.uk> References: <3FBDE8DF.6070603@cam.ac.uk> <3FBE1588.6050804@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3FBE3C2A.7090502@earthlink.net> James Graham wrote: >> I've run out of time, more later... > > > Page 27 > It might be worth mentioning that, initially at least, you might > prefer not to move junk mail, since the filters won't be very accurate > (although this seems to be mentioned on page 28) > > Page 39+40 > You don't need to explain why you're not discussing Composer + > Chatzilla. Just state at the start that you will concentrate on > Nav+Mail+Address book. Stating that "chat software is typically > blocked" is very presumtuious; some businesses might make heavy use of > chat or IM, even if only for internal communications. > > Page 42 > It's not clear from the text what the difference between a bookmarklet > and an extension is. You could mention that bookmarklets typically > work like a boomark, but instead of bookmarking a page, they bookmark > a webbrowser function, like a simple macro in an office program. > Extensions typically integrate better with the browser and are loaded > automatically on startup. > > Page 43 > A URL would be good. Some screenshots might help too. In general, I > might be tempted to change the examples from bugzilla examples to a > more commonly used site (e.g. bbc.co.uk or the NYT (if it has a > search), or yahoo! or something like that) > > > In general, the document seems to be well written and clear. The > screenshots are very good and labelling likely to be very helpful. The > only real problem I can see is that it seems to be a bit haphazard in > which topics are explained and how much detail each topic is given. (I > appreciate that it's only version 0.4, so maybe this will change). You > seem to have focussed mainly on features that Mozilla has but other > products do not (tabbed browsing, junk mail, etc.), which is fine, as > long as you state that in advance. However, some sections, such as > that on mail folders, have more basic information in them that should > be familar to most people who have used a similar program. If only > highlighting Moz-specific features is the intention, the document > isn't really a manual, but something more like a hybrid getting > started guide / advocacy document / switching to Mozilla guide. > > Some of the sections such as those on tabbed browing, searching and > junk mail filtering are very detailed, whilst other sections such as > that on image blocking merely state that the feature exists and expect > the user to work out the (often quite complex) process for using it > themselves. > > The list of keyboard shortcuts is likely to be very helpful. James - Thank you for your extensive and helpful comments. I'm going to take some time to go thru them in detail, and incorporate your suggestions into the next draft(s) [may not be able to get them all into draft 0.5, but if not, then look for draft 0.6 ]. As you may have guessed, this project started out as a document specific to my business environment (I'm editing out some of the more obvious "my business" specific things you mentioned - thanks for pointing these out). I thought since I was putting so much work into this, I'd like to make it more widely available. Your comment about "...the document isn't really a manual, but something more like a hybrid getting started guide / advocacy document / switching to Mozilla guide" is fairly accurate. Frankly, I couldn't come up with a better name than manual ("guide" was already being used by another project, and I didn't want to cause confusion). This actually started out as a "Ten Ways to Become a Mozilla Power User" cheat-sheet. The idea was that there is a fairly short list of features that make using Mozilla fun and effective, but if you're new to Mozilla they're not all that obvious. However, when I started listing the things I thought worth mentioning, it sort of grew on its own. In short, I'm trying to touch on the most useful aspects of Mozilla (based on my experience, and my experience working with people in my business environment) with the hope that it will new users jump-started. From jg307 at cam.ac.uk Fri Nov 21 18:40:21 2003 From: jg307 at cam.ac.uk (James Graham) Date: Fri Nov 21 13:46:48 2003 Subject: [Mozmanual] Mozmanual draft 4 [continued] In-Reply-To: <3FBE3C2A.7090502@earthlink.net> References: <3FBDE8DF.6070603@cam.ac.uk> <3FBE1588.6050804@cam.ac.uk> <3FBE3C2A.7090502@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3FBE5C15.9010507@cam.ac.uk> Kevin Quiggle wrote: > > I thought since I was putting so much work into this, I'd like to > make it more widely available. > Excellent :) > Your comment about "...the document isn't really a manual, but > something more like a hybrid getting started guide / advocacy document > / switching to Mozilla guide" is fairly accurate. Frankly, I couldn't > come up with a better name than manual ("guide" was already being used > by another project, and I didn't want to cause confusion). > This actually started out as a "Ten Ways to Become a Mozilla Power > User" cheat-sheet. The idea was that there is a fairly short list of > features that make using Mozilla fun and effective, but if you're new > to Mozilla they're not all that obvious. However, when I started > listing the things I thought worth mentioning, it sort of grew on its > own. In short, I'm trying to touch on the most useful aspects of > Mozilla (based on my experience, and my experience working with people > in my business environment) with the hope that it will new users > jump-started. > That's fine; it's probably the most useful level to pitch this sort of thing at anyway, since most people can cope with basic browser/mail functionality but don't know about things beyond that. I guess it just needs to be clear from the web page and from the document that this is not intended as a comprehensive guide to every feature that exists but as an introduction to a few of the most useful intermediate to advanced level features in Mozilla. Having said that, I should say again that the guide is generally very good and I can imagine it being very useful for its target audience. From kquiggle at earthlink.net Sun Nov 30 12:35:53 2003 From: kquiggle at earthlink.net (Kevin Quiggle) Date: Sun Nov 30 12:42:34 2003 Subject: [Mozmanual] Re: PLEASE add the following to the manual In-Reply-To: <3FC59C22.5699C117@sbcglobal.net> References: <3FC59C22.5699C117@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <3FCA2A79.4050501@earthlink.net> Igor wrote: > I will do my best to correctly describe another feature of mozilla not > yet mentioned in your manual. > It is related to the "TABBED BROWSING" > > 1st feature: > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > you can open another TAB by clicking on the link, keep the left mouse > pressed and drag the link to > - the location window (no, this is NOT another TAB) OR > - to the existing TAB (no, this is NOT another TAB either) OR > - to the empty space of the TAG bar (X or "open_another_tab_icon" > are fine fine too) > > [X - close active TAB icon) > > > 2nd feature (A LOT MORE IMPORTANT and BETTER) > > - highlight non clickable URL ( URL which does not contain underlying > HTML code) > and follow the same rules like "1st feature". > > By non clickable URL I mean pure ascii text like http://www.yahoo.com > > Please ADD those two features under TIPS in the chapter "TABBED BROWSING" > > > Thanks > > Igor > > >-- >I do not get viruses because I do not use MS software. If you use Outlook >or Outlook Express then please do not put my email address in your >address-book so that WHEN you get a virus it won't use my address in the >"From:" field. Thanks :) > > Excellent tips! I was not aware myself that this could be done. I'll definitely add these tips to the manual. Thanks From primorec at sbcglobal.net Wed Nov 26 22:39:30 2003 From: primorec at sbcglobal.net (Igor) Date: Sun Nov 30 23:05:38 2003 Subject: [Mozmanual] PLEASE add the following to the manual Message-ID: <3FC59C22.5699C117@sbcglobal.net> I will do my best to correctly describe another feature of mozilla not yet mentioned in your manual. It is related to the "TABBED BROWSING" 1st feature: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- you can open another TAB by clicking on the link, keep the left mouse pressed and drag the link to - the location window (no, this is NOT another TAB) OR - to the existing TAB (no, this is NOT another TAB either) OR - to the empty space of the TAG bar (X or "open_another_tab_icon" are fine fine too) [X - close active TAB icon) 2nd feature (A LOT MORE IMPORTANT and BETTER) - highlight non clickable URL ( URL which does not contain underlying HTML code) and follow the same rules like "1st feature". By non clickable URL I mean pure ascii text like http://www.yahoo.com Please ADD those two features under TIPS in the chapter "TABBED BROWSING" Thanks Igor -- I do not get viruses because I do not use MS software. If you use Outlook or Outlook Express then please do not put my email address in your address-book so that WHEN you get a virus it won't use my address in the "From:" field. Thanks :) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mozdev.org/pipermail/mozmanual/attachments/20031126/06f59612/attachment.htm