From betterbilling at earthlink.net  Wed Aug  4 15:10:28 2004
From: betterbilling at earthlink.net (c tanner)
Date: Wed Aug  4 16:27:03 2004
Subject: [Jabberzilla] Developing in open source
Message-ID: <411142B4.4040509@earthlink.net>

Right now I am listening to Eric S. Raymond's presentation about the 
"Cathedral and the Bazaar."  The concepts he is talking about might have 
great potential for JabberZilla.  

Also, I just finished talking with pgmillard in the jdev room, 
jdev@conference.jabber.org.  He just finished up a tour of <a 
href="http://conferences.oreillynet.com/os2004/">OSCON</a> and is 
considering blogging his thoughts about open source development. Stay 
tuned to <a href="http://planet.jabber.org">Planet Jabber</a> for his 
thoughts.
If you have any comments about this subject, please let me know either 
by commenting on this blog entry or send me a message with JabberZilla 
to carlb@jabber.org.
From betterbilling at earthlink.net  Mon Aug  9 00:31:06 2004
From: betterbilling at earthlink.net (c tanner)
Date: Mon Aug  9 01:50:21 2004
Subject: [Jabberzilla] A look back and forward; cvs to subversion
Message-ID: <41170C1A.9060200@earthlink.net>

It's been about two months since Prefiks and Carl have taken over the 
instant messaging client, <a 
href="http://jabberzilla.jabberstudio.org/">JabberZilla</a>, posting:

Prefiks and I, for the moment, have picked up the Jabberzilla baton. No 
code or documentation is posted at the moment, but you should see the 
initial Jabberzilla code and documentation by this time next week. Stay 
tuned to this mailing list, to learn of the new releases or events. 
Because this is an Instant Message client, feel free to swing by the 
Jabberzilla room at jabber.org, jabberzilla@conference.jabber.org .
....

For only two months, I think that we have made some great progress.  
With no offense intended to Eric and kudos to Prefiks, JabberZilla has 
replace Eric Murphy's old code with all new code that works much better 
than Eric's.  The next generation of this code (currently called jz2) is 
already in the works and will be available for public review, hopefully, 
later in the week. The project website, although it still needs some 
work, is up and running.

For those who haven't swung by the <a 
href="http://jabberzilla.jabberstudio.org/">JabberZilla project site</a> 
lately,
the site includes an attempt to explain how Jabber is good for Mozilla, 
how to get started with JabberZilla (including an installation link), 
and developer resources.  Like I hinted earlier, the website is still 
evolving.  <a href="http://jabberzilla.jabberstudio.org/blog/">This 
blog</a> was recently added, as well as a <a 
href="http://jabberzilla.jabberstudio.org/trac/">project tracker</a> 
called trac.

We are also upgrading from CVS to <a 
href="http://jabberzilla.jabberstudio.org/trac/browser/">subversion 
repository</a>.   Stay tuned for instructions on how to download your 
latest copy of the JabberZilla repository, or, better yet, swing by the 
jabberzilla room, jabberzilla@conference.jabber.org, and we will walk 
you through the process.

It would be great to keep up this fast pace that JabberZilla has 
established.  We need your help as well.  If you could lend your 
expertise to the project, let us know.  Email is always welcome at 
betterbilling@earthlink.net, but, of course you can send an instant 
message on the jabber network to carlb@jabber.org.
From betterbilling at earthlink.net  Mon Aug  9 23:39:28 2004
From: betterbilling at earthlink.net (c tanner)
Date: Tue Aug 10 00:56:14 2004
Subject: [Jabberzilla] open source types should read this article
Message-ID: <41185180.3010702@earthlink.net>

Hi Asa,

I thought that you might be interested in the article below by Tim O'Reilly.

Carl Tanner
JID: carlb@jabber.org
JabberZilla Admin

<p><a 
href="http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/oreilly/tim/opensource/paradigmshift_0504.html">Open 
Source Paradigm Shift</a> by Tim O'Reilly -- This article is based on a 
talk that I first gave at Warburg-Pincus' annual technology conference 
in May of 2003. Since then, I have delivered versions of the talk more 
than twenty times, at locations ranging from the O'Reilly Open Source 
Convention, the UK Unix User's Group, Microsoft Research in the UK, IBM 
Hursley, British Telecom, Red Hat's internal "all-hands" meeting, and 
BEA's eWorld conference. I finally wrote it down as an article for an 
upcoming book on open source,"Perspectives on Free and Open Source 
Software," edited by J. Feller, B. Fitzgerald, S. Hissam, and K. R. 
Lakhani and to be published by MIT Press in 2005.</p>
From strypey at riseup.net  Fri Aug 20 08:11:02 2004
From: strypey at riseup.net (Danyl Strype)
Date: Thu Aug 19 15:28:11 2004
Subject: [Jabberzilla] New Volunteer
Message-ID: <1092942662.4124fb468c8f6@mail.riseup.net>

Kia ora koutou (friendly greetings to all),

My name is Danyl Strype and I live in Aotearoa, a pair of
islands in the south pacific also known as New Zealand. I
have been an enthusiastic proponent of open source software
for a few years now and I am especially excited by the
possibilites of Jabber.

What piqued my interest in Jabberzilla? I have tried
various
Jabber clients on Windows and been mostly disappointed. At
the moment a potential Jabber use has to:
- find a Jabber server and sign up for a username
- find, download and install a client (probably many until
they find one that works well with their computer)
- nut out how to configure their client and set up their
account
- nut out how to set up transports so they can still talk
to
their friends of MSN etc (this is currently rediculously
complicated although of course the proprietary networks
don't lift a fingernail to help)

Most users just won't bother when they can register their
existing email address as a .NET passport, drop MSN and
voila (not to mention voice and cam support)! What I
concluded from my experiences is that Jabber
would be easiest for most users as a web browser plug-in
that makes Jabber as easy to use as online email.
Preferably
one that allows the user to register an existing email
address as a JabberID. Preferably one that incorporates
voice capability, perhaps by using code from
SpeekFreely.org? I also noticed one Jabber client's
documentation claiming it supports webcams with something
called Jasper?

I am hoping that by helping in some way with the
Jabberzilla
project I can contribute towards achieving this vision I
have for Jabber. This is the first time I've had the stones
to volunteer for an OSS project so please be gentle with me
;) I have done bits and bobs of programming over the years
in BASIC, PASCAL and more recently HTML but I am a total
code virgin when it comes to modern application languages.
However I am an experienced self-teacher and I'm hoping to
learn about the languages Jabberzilla involveds by
monkeying around with the code (this is how I learnt what
HTML I know).

For a start the most useful thing I can do is help to build
and maintain the project homepage which I see is still
heavily under construction ;) I have joined this email list
and look forward to working with you all.

RnB,
Strypey


-- 
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free by using Mozilla
Thunderbird instead of Outlook Express. Windows on PCs
block
viruses like windows on houses block sunlight.

"One pound of DNA has the capacity to store more 
information than all the electronic computers ever built; 
and the computing power of a teardrop-sized DNA computer, 
using the DNA logic gates, will be more powerful than the 
world's most powerful supercomputer." 
http://computer.howstuffworks.com/dna-computer2.htm 
 
Te Komako Motuhake - http://aotearoa.indymedia.org/ 
JabberID: strypey@jabber.org.au 
From betterbilling at earthlink.net  Thu Aug 19 20:09:50 2004
From: betterbilling at earthlink.net (c tanner)
Date: Thu Aug 19 21:26:59 2004
Subject: [Jabberzilla] New Volunteer
In-Reply-To: <1092942662.4124fb468c8f6@mail.riseup.net>
References: <1092942662.4124fb468c8f6@mail.riseup.net>
Message-ID: <41254F5E.90407@earthlink.net>

Welcome aboard!  Thanks to you, Danyl, the sun never sets on the 
JabberZilla project and it is truly an international effort.  Your ideas 
are great, and you make a some good points when you compare msn to the 
current jabber situation.  Jabber should be easier to use and so should 
getting connected with your buddies on different networks.  The website, 
especially the homepage and the links on the left, they need some work.  
If you have any suggestions or can put together an example and either 
attach it to an email or post the url on this list, that would be 
great!  We could, as a community, discuss what we like about it.  If you 
think that you have better prose, IM me at carlb@jabber.org, swing by 
the jabberzilla room, jabberzilla@conference.jabber.org, or, of course, 
post it to this mailing list.    Again, welcome aboard!


P.S.  Like I said you have some great ideas.  Would you please put them 
"in the mix" with a formal feature request at 
http://www.jabberstudio.org/projects/jabberzilla/features/add.php ?  
That would be so helpful!
Danyl Strype wrote:

>Kia ora koutou (friendly greetings to all),
>
>My name is Danyl Strype and I live in Aotearoa, a pair of
>islands in the south pacific also known as New Zealand. I
>have been an enthusiastic proponent of open source software
>for a few years now and I am especially excited by the
>possibilites of Jabber.
>
>What piqued my interest in Jabberzilla? I have tried
>various
>Jabber clients on Windows and been mostly disappointed. At
>the moment a potential Jabber use has to:
>- find a Jabber server and sign up for a username
>- find, download and install a client (probably many until
>they find one that works well with their computer)
>- nut out how to configure their client and set up their
>account
>- nut out how to set up transports so they can still talk
>to
>their friends of MSN etc (this is currently rediculously
>complicated although of course the proprietary networks
>don't lift a fingernail to help)
>
>Most users just won't bother when they can register their
>existing email address as a .NET passport, drop MSN and
>voila (not to mention voice and cam support)! What I
>concluded from my experiences is that Jabber
>would be easiest for most users as a web browser plug-in
>that makes Jabber as easy to use as online email.
>Preferably
>one that allows the user to register an existing email
>address as a JabberID. Preferably one that incorporates
>voice capability, perhaps by using code from
>SpeekFreely.org? I also noticed one Jabber client's
>documentation claiming it supports webcams with something
>called Jasper?
>
>I am hoping that by helping in some way with the
>Jabberzilla
>project I can contribute towards achieving this vision I
>have for Jabber. This is the first time I've had the stones
>to volunteer for an OSS project so please be gentle with me
>;) I have done bits and bobs of programming over the years
>in BASIC, PASCAL and more recently HTML but I am a total
>code virgin when it comes to modern application languages.
>However I am an experienced self-teacher and I'm hoping to
>learn about the languages Jabberzilla involveds by
>monkeying around with the code (this is how I learnt what
>HTML I know).
>
>For a start the most useful thing I can do is help to build
>and maintain the project homepage which I see is still
>heavily under construction ;) I have joined this email list
>and look forward to working with you all.
>
>RnB,
>Strypey
>
>
>  
>
From mxn at zoomtown.com  Fri Aug 20 14:15:48 2004
From: mxn at zoomtown.com (Minh Nguyen)
Date: Fri Aug 20 13:33:27 2004
Subject: [Jabberzilla] New Volunteer
In-Reply-To: <1092942662.4124fb468c8f6@mail.riseup.net>
References: <1092942662.4124fb468c8f6@mail.riseup.net>
Message-ID: <412631C4.6080609@zoomtown.com>

Danyl, the Jabberzilla project has a wiki setup at 
http://jabberzilla.jabberstudio.org/trac/wiki/ . You can edit any page 
you like there. Then someone in charge, like c tanner, could incorporate 
your changes into the front page.

c tanner, is there a way you can set the server to make the wiki's front 
page into the main site's front page? Trac seems to have some very nice 
tools and good documentation, but so far I haven't found a link to Trac 
from the main site yet.

-- 
Minh Nguyen <mxn@zoomtown.com>
AIM: trycom2000; Jabber: mxn@myjabber.net; Blog: http://mxn.f2o.org/

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: mxn.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 433 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mozdev.org/pipermail/jabberzilla/attachments/20040820/17fc679a/mxn.vcf
From betterbilling at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 20 18:10:43 2004
From: betterbilling at earthlink.net (c tanner)
Date: Fri Aug 20 19:27:53 2004
Subject: [Jabberzilla] New Volunteer
In-Reply-To: <412631C4.6080609@zoomtown.com>
References: <1092942662.4124fb468c8f6@mail.riseup.net>
	<412631C4.6080609@zoomtown.com>
Message-ID: <412684F3.2010601@earthlink.net>

Mihn,

Consider a link made:
* http://jabberzilla.jabberstudio.org/trac/wiki/CreateBetterSite
or if you use  the jabberzilla site, http://jabberzilla.jabberstudio.org/
 * the link on the left hand side, bottom corner, "Improve the site"

btw, don't let your new creation die a lonely death from lack of fame.  
Let me and everyone else on the list know about it by posting its new 
web address on this list, and, if you would be so kind, swing by the 
jabberzilla room at jabberzilla@conference.jabber.org to let us know 
what's going on.  I am sure that we would all like to admire it, and, if 
you ask, provide *constructive* opinions about it.  It would be great to 
learn from each other.

As always, anyone can get ahold of me by IM'ing me at:
 carlb@jabber.org
OR
 swing by the jabberzilla room jabberzilla@conference.jabber.org.

Have a great weekend everyone!


Minh Nguyen wrote:

> Danyl, the Jabberzilla project has a wiki setup at 
> http://jabberzilla.jabberstudio.org/trac/wiki/ . You can edit any page 
> you like there. Then someone in charge, like c tanner, could 
> incorporate your changes into the front page.
>
> c tanner, is there a way you can set the server to make the wiki's 
> front page into the main site's front page? Trac seems to have some 
> very nice tools and good documentation, but so far I haven't found a 
> link to Trac from the main site yet.
>
>_______________________________________________
>Jabberzilla mailing list
>Jabberzilla@mozdev.org
>http://mozdev.org/mailman/listinfo/jabberzilla
>  
>
From strypey at riseup.net  Sun Aug 22 13:44:08 2004
From: strypey at riseup.net (Danyl Strype)
Date: Sat Aug 21 21:01:26 2004
Subject: [Jabberzilla] Re: Stable Jabber client for Windows?
In-Reply-To: <412684F3.2010601@earthlink.net>
References: <1092942662.4124fb468c8f6@mail.riseup.net>
	<412631C4.6080609@zoomtown.com> <412684F3.2010601@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1093135448.4127ec588ed49@mail.riseup.net>

Kia ora kouotu,

Thanks for the warm welcome. I will have a look at the wiki
and feaures request systems in the coming days.

Quoting c tanner <betterbilling@earthlink.net>:

> As always, anyone can get ahold of me by IM'ing me at:
>  carlb@jabber.org
> OR
>  swing by the jabberzilla room
> jabberzilla@conference.jabber.org.

I'd love to come hang out in this conference. I have an
ancient Compaq Presario laptop running Win98. Can anyone
recommend an existing, stable Jabber client I could use for
now? I tried installing from the Jabberzilla home page
(with Firefox) but it would just hang. I have tried Ayttm
which wouldn't open it's modules folder (and thus couldn't
set up any services). I have tried JAJC which I used
successfully on other PCs but it kept crashing. I tried
Exodues, same problem. Suggestions?

RnB,
Strypey

-- 
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free by using Mozilla
Thunderbird instead of Outlook Express. Windows on PCs
block
viruses like windows on houses block sunlight.

"One pound of DNA has the capacity to store more 
information than all the electronic computers ever built; 
and the computing power of a teardrop-sized DNA computer, 
using the DNA logic gates, will be more powerful than the 
world's most powerful supercomputer." 
http://computer.howstuffworks.com/dna-computer2.htm 
 
Te Komako Motuhake - http://aotearoa.indymedia.org/ 
JabberID: strypey@jabber.org.au 
From tobias.fernandez at student.uni-ulm.de  Sun Aug 22 12:47:35 2004
From: tobias.fernandez at student.uni-ulm.de (Tobias Fernandez)
Date: Sun Aug 22 06:04:44 2004
Subject: [Jabberzilla] Stable Jabber client for Windows?
In-Reply-To: <1093135448.4127ec588ed49@mail.riseup.net>
References: <1092942662.4124fb468c8f6@mail.riseup.net>	<412631C4.6080609@zoomtown.com>
	<412684F3.2010601@earthlink.net>
	<1093135448.4127ec588ed49@mail.riseup.net>
Message-ID: <41286BB7.2030009@student.uni-ulm.de>

Danyl Strype wrote:

> I'd love to come hang out in this conference. I have an
> ancient Compaq Presario laptop running Win98. Can anyone
> recommend an existing, stable Jabber client I could use for
> now? 

Have a look at http://psi.affinix.com/

CU

Tobias Fernandez
From prefiks at civ.pl  Sun Aug 22 14:50:24 2004
From: prefiks at civ.pl (Pawel Chmielowski)
Date: Sun Aug 22 08:08:09 2004
Subject: [Jabberzilla] Re: Stable Jabber client for Windows?
In-Reply-To: <1093135448.4127ec588ed49@mail.riseup.net>
References: <1092942662.4124fb468c8f6@mail.riseup.net>	<412631C4.6080609@zoomtown.com>
	<412684F3.2010601@earthlink.net>
	<1093135448.4127ec588ed49@mail.riseup.net>
Message-ID: <41288880.2070909@civ.pl>

Danyl Strype napisa?(a):
> I'd love to come hang out in this conference. I have an
> ancient Compaq Presario laptop running Win98. Can anyone
> recommend an existing, stable Jabber client I could use for
> now? I tried installing from the Jabberzilla home page
> (with Firefox) but it would just hang. I have tried Ayttm
> which wouldn't open it's modules folder (and thus couldn't
> set up any services). I have tried JAJC which I used
> successfully on other PCs but it kept crashing. I tried
> Exodues, same problem. Suggestions?

You can always try http://jwchat.org/

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
   Pawel Chmielowski
From strypey at riseup.net  Mon Aug 23 15:50:13 2004
From: strypey at riseup.net (Danyl Strype)
Date: Sun Aug 22 23:09:56 2004
Subject: [Jabberzilla] Re: Stable Jabber client for Windows?
In-Reply-To: <41288880.2070909@civ.pl>
References: <1092942662.4124fb468c8f6@mail.riseup.net>
	<412631C4.6080609@zoomtown.com> <412684F3.2010601@earthlink.net>
	<1093135448.4127ec588ed49@mail.riseup.net>
	<41288880.2070909@civ.pl>
Message-ID: <1093229413.41295b652fc13@mail.riseup.net>

Kia ora,

Quoting Pawel Chmielowski <prefiks@civ.pl>:

>> You can always try http://jwchat.org/ <<

Wow! This is just the sort of thing I've been looking for,
thanks very much. It couldn't seem to log me into my usual
Jabber account so I created a new one on their server. The
setup was effortless and the transports to the proprietary
IM networks was really easy too.

The only thing that needs work is the user interface. As
soon as I registered the MSN transport I was inundated with
a deny/allow pop-up for each person on my MSN contact list.
In fact that's one of my main complaints about MSN, ICQ et
al, their interfaces popping up new windows all over the
place. Very untidy and about as user-friendly as a hungry
doberman ;) Pop-ups suck and should never be used EVER.
What would be a better would be JWChat opening a new
browser window and displaying everything within using tabs
or somesuch.

But this is definitely a MAJOR step in the right direction
and once the pop-up issue is resolve I would
enthusiastically recommend it to everyone I know.

RnB,
Strypey



-- 
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free by using Mozilla
Thunderbird instead of Outlook Express. Windows on a PC
block viruses like windows on a house block sunlight ;)

"Anarchism's great project is to dissolve the asymmetry of
power. How? There are thousands of alternatives and there
is
not only one solution. To advance 'one' solution would be a
doctrine of power, a manifestation of power."
- Venezuelan University Academic Alfredo Vallota quoted in
El Libertario
 
Te Komako Motuhake - http://aotearoa.indymedia.org/ 
JabberID: strypey@jabber.org.au s
From lyudmila at sani.ru  Sat Aug 21 16:41:49 2004
From: lyudmila at sani.ru (Lyudmila V Dronova)
Date: Mon Aug 23 00:46:42 2004
Subject: [Jabberzilla] jabberzilla & gpg
Message-ID: <412734FD.3060900@sani.ru>

Hello,
    i have one question - is there gpg encryption support and if there 
is no one this, i'd like to know whether it's planned to include it in 
jabberzilla or not.

Lyudmila.

From stpeter at gmail.com  Mon Aug 23 11:13:27 2004
From: stpeter at gmail.com (Peter Saint-Andre)
Date: Mon Aug 23 12:30:44 2004
Subject: [Jabberzilla] Re: Stable Jabber client for Windows?
In-Reply-To: <1093229413.41295b652fc13@mail.riseup.net>
References: <1092942662.4124fb468c8f6@mail.riseup.net>
	<412631C4.6080609@zoomtown.com> <412684F3.2010601@earthlink.net>
	<1093135448.4127ec588ed49@mail.riseup.net>
	<41288880.2070909@civ.pl> <1093229413.41295b652fc13@mail.riseup.net>
Message-ID: <269c47c04082309136558f97@mail.gmail.com>

> >> You can always try http://jwchat.org/ <<
> 
> Wow! This is just the sort of thing I've been looking for,
> thanks very much. It couldn't seem to log me into my usual
> Jabber account so I created a new one on their server. The
> setup was effortless and the transports to the proprietary
> IM networks was really easy too.

The installation at that URL is hardcoded to the jwchat.org server.

> The only thing that needs work is the user interface. As
> soon as I registered the MSN transport I was inundated with
> a deny/allow pop-up for each person on my MSN contact list.
> In fact that's one of my main complaints about MSN, ICQ et
> al, their interfaces popping up new windows all over the
> place. Very untidy and about as user-friendly as a hungry
> doberman ;) Pop-ups suck and should never be used EVER.
> What would be a better would be JWChat opening a new
> browser window and displaying everything within using tabs
> or somesuch.
> 
> But this is definitely a MAJOR step in the right direction
> and once the pop-up issue is resolve I would
> enthusiastically recommend it to everyone I know.

JWChat is open-source, feel free to contribute. ;-)

/psa
From ornelas at korpro.org  Mon Aug 23 20:04:16 2004
From: ornelas at korpro.org (D'Ornelas)
Date: Mon Aug 23 14:22:39 2004
Subject: [Jabberzilla] Re: Stable Jabber client for Windows?
In-Reply-To: <269c47c04082309136558f97@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1092942662.4124fb468c8f6@mail.riseup.net>	<412631C4.6080609@zoomtown.com>
	<412684F3.2010601@earthlink.net>	<1093135448.4127ec588ed49@mail.riseup.net>	<41288880.2070909@civ.pl>
	<1093229413.41295b652fc13@mail.riseup.net>
	<269c47c04082309136558f97@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <412A31A0.8040202@korpro.org>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mozdev.org/pipermail/jabberzilla/attachments/20040823/7b3ad0e8/attachment.htm
From stpeter at gmail.com  Mon Aug 23 13:55:30 2004
From: stpeter at gmail.com (Peter Saint-Andre)
Date: Mon Aug 23 15:13:19 2004
Subject: [Jabberzilla] jabberzilla & gpg
In-Reply-To: <412734FD.3060900@sani.ru>
References: <412734FD.3060900@sani.ru>
Message-ID: <269c47c04082311557f7e12ce@mail.gmail.com>

GPG (JEP-0027) is an older form of end-to-end encryption in the Jabber
community. It is supported in a number of Jabber clients but it has
known issues and we will work soon to develop something better. For
now clients can either add JEP-0027 support or wait until we have a
better protocol. :|

Peter

On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 15:41:49 +0400, Lyudmila V Dronova <lyudmila@sani.ru> wrote:
> Hello,
>     i have one question - is there gpg encryption support and if there
> is no one this, i'd like to know whether it's planned to include it in
> jabberzilla or not.
> 
> Lyudmila.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Jabberzilla mailing list
> Jabberzilla@mozdev.org
> http://mozdev.org/mailman/listinfo/jabberzilla
> 


-- 
Peter Saint-Andre
Jabber Software Foundation
http://www.jabber.org/people/stpeter.php
From carl at betterbilling.net  Mon Aug 23 13:55:57 2004
From: carl at betterbilling.net (Carl Tanner)
Date: Mon Aug 23 15:13:19 2004
Subject: [Jabberzilla] Re: [SPAM] Jabberzilla Digest, Vol 9, Issue 7
In-Reply-To: <200408231600.i7NG0aRH023541@localhost.mozdev.org>
References: <200408231600.i7NG0aRH023541@localhost.mozdev.org>
Message-ID: <412A3DBD.60401@betterbilling.net>

That's a good question.  Although end to end encryption is not on the 
roadmap yet ( http://jabberzilla.jabberstudio.org/map/ or 
http://jabberzilla.jabberstudio.org/trac/roadmap ), we do consider it 
important.  Maybe someone in the jabber community can contribute some 
thought on whether gpg is the preferred way to set up encryption.

>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject:
> [Jabberzilla] jabberzilla & gpg
> From:
> Lyudmila V Dronova <lyudmila@sani.ru>
> Date:
> Sat, 21 Aug 2004 15:41:49 +0400
> To:
> jabberzilla@mozdev.org
>
> To:
> jabberzilla@mozdev.org
>
>
> Hello,
>    i have one question - is there gpg encryption support and if there 
> is no one this, i'd like to know whether it's planned to include it in 
> jabberzilla or not.
>
> Lyudmila.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Jabberzilla mailing list
>Jabberzilla@mozdev.org
>http://mozdev.org/mailman/listinfo/jabberzilla
>  
>
From carl at betterbilling.net  Tue Aug 24 20:45:00 2004
From: carl at betterbilling.net (Carl Tanner)
Date: Tue Aug 24 22:02:21 2004
Subject: [Jabberzilla] seperate but equal
Message-ID: <412BEF1C.6070701@betterbilling.net>

Hi everyone!

This is a general poll.  I have been wondering about a few things 
lately, and I would like your feedback.

1.  Do you have a JID?
2.  Have you ever visited the jabberzilla room ( 
jabberzilla@conference.jabber.org ), and if so what nickname did you use?
3.  In what form or forms would JabberZilla be the most useful for you?
     (a) as a tbird extension
     (b) as a firefox extension
     (c) as a stand-alone application (like firefox or tbird)
     (d) a combination of one of the above

Your feedback will help mold JabberZilla's future.  I look forward to 
hearing from you.
From emurphy79 at cox.net  Tue Aug 24 23:23:24 2004
From: emurphy79 at cox.net (emurphy79@cox.net)
Date: Tue Aug 24 22:41:40 2004
Subject: [Jabberzilla] seperate but equal
Message-ID: <20040825022325.PJDT7911.lakermmtao02.cox.net@smtp.east.cox.net>

I still like the idea of Jz integrated into T-bird but that is a radical departure from what we have now (for the GUI anyway). b & c should be very easy to do with very much the same code, if not all the same. I'd say roll with that for now and get the funtionality down.

Oh, and all the time I worked on Jabberzilla, I never did bother to make a JID for myself ;-)

Later,
Eric


> 
> From: Carl Tanner <carl@betterbilling.net>
> Date: 2004/08/24 Tue PM 09:45:00 EDT
> To: jabberzilla@mozdev.org
> Subject: [Jabberzilla] seperate but equal
> 
> Hi everyone!
> 
> This is a general poll.  I have been wondering about a few things 
> lately, and I would like your feedback.
> 
> 1.  Do you have a JID?
> 2.  Have you ever visited the jabberzilla room ( 
> jabberzilla@conference.jabber.org ), and if so what nickname did you use?
> 3.  In what form or forms would JabberZilla be the most useful for you?
>      (a) as a tbird extension
>      (b) as a firefox extension
>      (c) as a stand-alone application (like firefox or tbird)
>      (d) a combination of one of the above
> 
> Your feedback will help mold JabberZilla's future.  I look forward to 
> hearing from you.
> _______________________________________________
> Jabberzilla mailing list
> Jabberzilla@mozdev.org
> http://mozdev.org/mailman/listinfo/jabberzilla
> 

From ornelas at korpro.org  Wed Aug 25 14:33:32 2004
From: ornelas at korpro.org (D'Ornelas)
Date: Wed Aug 25 08:51:19 2004
Subject: [Jabberzilla] seperate but equal
In-Reply-To: <412BEF1C.6070701@betterbilling.net>
References: <412BEF1C.6070701@betterbilling.net>
Message-ID: <412C871C.8070903@korpro.org>

It will be great if Jaberzilla could be like Sunbird, stand alone and as 
extensions for sea-monkey, firefox, thunderbird.

But that will much more work...

Carl Tanner wrote:

> Hi everyone!
>
> This is a general poll.  I have been wondering about a few things 
> lately, and I would like your feedback.
>
> 1.  Do you have a JID?
> 2.  Have you ever visited the jabberzilla room ( 
> jabberzilla@conference.jabber.org ), and if so what nickname did you use?
> 3.  In what form or forms would JabberZilla be the most useful for you?
>     (a) as a tbird extension
>     (b) as a firefox extension
>     (c) as a stand-alone application (like firefox or tbird)
>     (d) a combination of one of the above
>
> Your feedback will help mold JabberZilla's future.  I look forward to 
> hearing from you.
> _______________________________________________
> Jabberzilla mailing list
> Jabberzilla@mozdev.org
> http://mozdev.org/mailman/listinfo/jabberzilla
>
>
>

From betterbilling at earthlink.net  Wed Aug 25 15:58:05 2004
From: betterbilling at earthlink.net (c tanner)
Date: Wed Aug 25 17:15:49 2004
Subject: [Jabberzilla] seperate but equal
In-Reply-To: <412C871C.8070903@korpro.org>
References: <412BEF1C.6070701@betterbilling.net> <412C871C.8070903@korpro.org>
Message-ID: <412CFD5D.2070002@earthlink.net>

In the grand scheme of things, it might be some more work, but sources 
at mozilla say that it isn't a tall hurdle.

D'Ornelas wrote:

> It will be great if Jaberzilla could be like Sunbird, stand alone and 
> as extensions for sea-monkey, firefox, thunderbird.
>
> But that will much more work...
>
> Carl Tanner wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone!
>>
>> This is a general poll.  I have been wondering about a few things 
>> lately, and I would like your feedback.
>>
>> 1.  Do you have a JID?
>> 2.  Have you ever visited the jabberzilla room ( 
>> jabberzilla@conference.jabber.org ), and if so what nickname did you 
>> use?
>> 3.  In what form or forms would JabberZilla be the most useful for you?
>>     (a) as a tbird extension
>>     (b) as a firefox extension
>>     (c) as a stand-alone application (like firefox or tbird)
>>     (d) a combination of one of the above
>>
>> Your feedback will help mold JabberZilla's future.  I look forward to 
>> hearing from you.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Jabberzilla mailing list
>> Jabberzilla@mozdev.org
>> http://mozdev.org/mailman/listinfo/jabberzilla
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jabberzilla mailing list
> Jabberzilla@mozdev.org
> http://mozdev.org/mailman/listinfo/jabberzilla
>
From ornelas at korpro.org  Thu Aug 26 00:17:45 2004
From: ornelas at korpro.org (D'Ornelas)
Date: Wed Aug 25 18:35:34 2004
Subject: [Jabberzilla] seperate but equal
In-Reply-To: <412CFD5D.2070002@earthlink.net>
References: <412BEF1C.6070701@betterbilling.net> <412C871C.8070903@korpro.org>
	<412CFD5D.2070002@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <412D1009.3020707@korpro.org>

1. xmpp:numb_@jabber.org

2. yes, numb

3. It will be great if Jabberzilla could be like Sunbird, stand alone 
and as extensions for sea-monkey, firefox, thunderbird.

But that will be much more work...

[sorry for only answer all the questions now]

c tanner wrote:

> In the grand scheme of things, it might be some more work, but sources 
> at mozilla say that it isn't a tall hurdle.
>
> D'Ornelas wrote:
>
>> It will be great if Jabberzilla could be like Sunbird, stand alone 
>> and as extensions for sea-monkey, firefox, thunderbird.
>>
>> But that will be much more work...
>>
>> Carl Tanner wrote:
>>
>>> Hi everyone!
>>>
>>> This is a general poll.  I have been wondering about a few things 
>>> lately, and I would like your feedback.
>>>
>>> 1.  Do you have a JID?
>>> 2.  Have you ever visited the jabberzilla room ( 
>>> jabberzilla@conference.jabber.org ), and if so what nickname did you 
>>> use?
>>> 3.  In what form or forms would JabberZilla be the most useful for you?
>>>     (a) as a tbird extension
>>>     (b) as a firefox extension
>>>     (c) as a stand-alone application (like firefox or tbird)
>>>     (d) a combination of one of the above
>>>
>>> Your feedback will help mold JabberZilla's future.  I look forward 
>>> to hearing from you.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Jabberzilla mailing list
>>> Jabberzilla@mozdev.org
>>> http://mozdev.org/mailman/listinfo/jabberzilla
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Jabberzilla mailing list
>> Jabberzilla@mozdev.org
>> http://mozdev.org/mailman/listinfo/jabberzilla
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Jabberzilla mailing list
> Jabberzilla@mozdev.org
> http://mozdev.org/mailman/listinfo/jabberzilla
>
>
>

From jabber at vanbragt.com  Thu Aug 26 12:24:00 2004
From: jabber at vanbragt.com (Bart van Bragt)
Date: Thu Aug 26 05:44:47 2004
Subject: [Jabberzilla] seperate but equal
In-Reply-To: <412BEF1C.6070701@betterbilling.net>
References: <412BEF1C.6070701@betterbilling.net>
Message-ID: <412DAC30.10800@vanbragt.com>

Carl Tanner wrote:
> 1.  Do you have a JID?
Yup, jabber at vanbragt.com

> 2.  Have you ever visited the jabberzilla room ( 
> jabberzilla@conference.jabber.org ), and if so what nickname did you use?
Did some time ago, BartVB

> 3.  In what form or forms would JabberZilla be the most useful for you?
>     (a) as a tbird extension
>     (b) as a firefox extension
>     (c) as a stand-alone application (like firefox or tbird)
>     (d) a combination of one of the above
a and b

I'm just venting my opinion here. I don't have much right to speak
because I currently lack the time to actually contribute code/time to
this project but who knows, maybe this will start some discussion or
maybe my view on the Jabberzilla project will make some people think :)

IMO there are already way too many Jabber client. The main problem is
that 90% of those is only half functional or has severe drawbacks.
Projects to create yet another Jabber client are started almost every
day and almost none of them are really finished. I would hate to see the
same thing happen to Jabberzilla.

It's my opinion that we don't need yet another Jabber client, we have
lots and lots of those it would be mainly a gigantic duplication of
effort. IMO if you are on the Jabberzilla project because the current
Jabber clients are not perfect: Please join an existing Jabber client
project like Psi (which is also multi platform, etc, etc). I really
don't see the big advantage of having a Mozilla based Jabber client.
Most of the time their GUIs are fairly slow and the applications are
large (thunderbird and firefox are both approx 70MB on my machine at the
moment). Besides that Mozilla has started splitting up the application
into separate browser/calendar/email parts quite some time ago. Why
would we want to start integrating a full featured Jabber client into it?

What I would much, much, much rather like to see would be tight
Jabber-Web integration. I'm one of the developers of phpBB
(www.phpbb.com) and I've been thinking about ways to integrate Jabber
into phpBB for quite some time now. A lot if integration is possible but
only if the server would be able to run some kind of Jabber bot and most
phpBB admins are not allowed to run a bot on the server of their hoster.
This way most communication is stricktly one way. The board can send
notifications to the user but the board can't receive any messages,
well, except if it would poll a Jabber server but that's an everything
but clean solution IMO.

Besides all this I think that Jabber should have world domination :) To
get to that point we'll first have to beat existing systems like AIM,
MSN, ICQ, etc. Before people will switch from those systems to Jabber
they will first need a compelling argument to do this. "It's an open
system" and "There is no central server" are not compelling arguments to
Joe Average. IMO one of the points where Jabber could excel is in web
integration. All the current systems barely integrate into the web
and/or into email, the two major applications on the internet. If we
could get Jabber tightly integrated into those systems we could gain a LOT.

It would be _so_ nice if I could login to a site through Jabber, send a
chat message directly to a user from a webpage, receive notifications
and see if persons on a webpage (or senders/recipients of an email) are
online or not....

So if you are determined to make another Jabber client it should have
some destinct advantages over existing clients. One such advantage could
(or should?) be tight web/email integration.

With kind regards,

Bart van Bragt


From betterbilling at earthlink.net  Thu Aug 26 12:44:32 2004
From: betterbilling at earthlink.net (c tanner)
Date: Thu Aug 26 14:01:55 2004
Subject: [Jabberzilla] seperate but equal
In-Reply-To: <412DAC30.10800@vanbragt.com>
References: <412BEF1C.6070701@betterbilling.net> <412DAC30.10800@vanbragt.com>
Message-ID: <412E2180.7030400@earthlink.net>

Integration is why I revived JabberZilla.  You can incorporate Jabber 
things better if the browser can take advantage of it.  Don't get me 
wrong about what I am about to state.  I like Psi, the main author, and 
I think that it functions well as a cross-platform IM/chat client.  In 
fact, until we get groupchat functioning well, I will use Psi.  I have 
questions about its future, though:  Can Psi easily do those cool 
integration things you mentioned? No, it can't.  Can Psi easily 
implement the protocol xmpp:carlb@jabber.org in the user's browser?  Not 
as easily as jz can.  Does Psi have the XUL widgets to take advantage of 
the emerging pubsub standards (JEP 60) in a way that creates a 
user-friendly web service?  I don't get that impression.  Even if it 
could or it does, I don't see Psi becoming more than the text version of 
the telephone with presence. 

JabberZilla can be, and will be, much more because it comes from a web 
browser background.  JabberZilla will implement not just a great 
experience instant messaging with a GUI that is separate from its 
functions, but what some are calling the 'Real-Time Internet,'  offering 
faster online apps that are designed to be easier to use for the 
individual user and for the system administrator to manage.  The 
separate GUI means that anyone with a small amount of help can create 
his own custom GUI or skin.  In short, by leveraging the accumulated 
effort of the mozilla community and by combining the technology of 
Jabber with the existing technology of Mozilla, you will get more value 
from JabberZilla than any other client on the web.

Bart van Bragt wrote:

> Carl Tanner wrote:
>
>> 1.  Do you have a JID?
>
> Yup, jabber at vanbragt.com
>
>> 2.  Have you ever visited the jabberzilla room ( 
>> jabberzilla@conference.jabber.org ), and if so what nickname did you 
>> use?
>
> Did some time ago, BartVB
>
>> 3.  In what form or forms would JabberZilla be the most useful for you?
>>     (a) as a tbird extension
>>     (b) as a firefox extension
>>     (c) as a stand-alone application (like firefox or tbird)
>>     (d) a combination of one of the above
>
> a and b
>
> I'm just venting my opinion here. I don't have much right to speak
> because I currently lack the time to actually contribute code/time to
> this project but who knows, maybe this will start some discussion or
> maybe my view on the Jabberzilla project will make some people think :)
>
> IMO there are already way too many Jabber client. The main problem is
> that 90% of those is only half functional or has severe drawbacks.
> Projects to create yet another Jabber client are started almost every
> day and almost none of them are really finished. I would hate to see the
> same thing happen to Jabberzilla.
>
> It's my opinion that we don't need yet another Jabber client, we have
> lots and lots of those it would be mainly a gigantic duplication of
> effort. IMO if you are on the Jabberzilla project because the current
> Jabber clients are not perfect: Please join an existing Jabber client
> project like Psi (which is also multi platform, etc, etc). I really
> don't see the big advantage of having a Mozilla based Jabber client.
> Most of the time their GUIs are fairly slow and the applications are
> large (thunderbird and firefox are both approx 70MB on my machine at the
> moment). Besides that Mozilla has started splitting up the application
> into separate browser/calendar/email parts quite some time ago. Why
> would we want to start integrating a full featured Jabber client into it?
>
> What I would much, much, much rather like to see would be tight
> Jabber-Web integration. I'm one of the developers of phpBB
> (www.phpbb.com) and I've been thinking about ways to integrate Jabber
> into phpBB for quite some time now. A lot if integration is possible but
> only if the server would be able to run some kind of Jabber bot and most
> phpBB admins are not allowed to run a bot on the server of their hoster.
> This way most communication is stricktly one way. The board can send
> notifications to the user but the board can't receive any messages,
> well, except if it would poll a Jabber server but that's an everything
> but clean solution IMO.
>
> Besides all this I think that Jabber should have world domination :) To
> get to that point we'll first have to beat existing systems like AIM,
> MSN, ICQ, etc. Before people will switch from those systems to Jabber
> they will first need a compelling argument to do this. "It's an open
> system" and "There is no central server" are not compelling arguments to
> Joe Average. IMO one of the points where Jabber could excel is in web
> integration. All the current systems barely integrate into the web
> and/or into email, the two major applications on the internet. If we
> could get Jabber tightly integrated into those systems we could gain a 
> LOT.
>
> It would be _so_ nice if I could login to a site through Jabber, send a
> chat message directly to a user from a webpage, receive notifications
> and see if persons on a webpage (or senders/recipients of an email) are
> online or not....
>
> So if you are determined to make another Jabber client it should have
> some destinct advantages over existing clients. One such advantage could
> (or should?) be tight web/email integration.
>
> With kind regards,
>
> Bart van Bragt
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jabberzilla mailing list
> Jabberzilla@mozdev.org
> http://mozdev.org/mailman/listinfo/jabberzilla
>
From bart at vanbragt.com  Thu Aug 26 12:20:59 2004
From: bart at vanbragt.com (Bart van Bragt)
Date: Thu Aug 26 15:46:28 2004
Subject: [Jabberzilla] seperate but equal
In-Reply-To: <412BEF1C.6070701@betterbilling.net>
References: <412BEF1C.6070701@betterbilling.net>
Message-ID: <412DAB7B.60406@vanbragt.com>

Carl Tanner wrote:
> 1.  Do you have a JID?
Yup, jabber at vanbragt.com

> 2.  Have you ever visited the jabberzilla room ( 
> jabberzilla@conference.jabber.org ), and if so what nickname did you use?
Did some time ago, BartVB

> 3.  In what form or forms would JabberZilla be the most useful for you?
>     (a) as a tbird extension
>     (b) as a firefox extension
>     (c) as a stand-alone application (like firefox or tbird)
>     (d) a combination of one of the above
a and b

I'm just venting my opinion here. I don't have much right to speak 
because I currently lack the time to actually contribute code/time to 
this project but who knows, maybe this will start some discussion or 
maybe my view on the Jabberzilla project will make some people think :)

IMO there are already way too many Jabber client. The main problem is 
that 90% of those is only half functional or has severe drawbacks. 
Projects to create yet another Jabber client are started almost every 
day and almost none of them are really finished. I would hate to see the 
same thing happen to Jabberzilla.

It's my opinion that we don't need yet another Jabber client, we have 
lots and lots of those it would be mainly a gigantic duplication of 
effort. IMO if you are on the Jabberzilla project because the current 
Jabber clients are not perfect: Please join an existing Jabber client 
project like Psi (which is also multi platform, etc, etc). I really 
don't see the big advantage of having a Mozilla based Jabber client. 
Most of the time their GUIs are fairly slow and the applications are 
large (thunderbird and firefox are both approx 70MB on my machine at the 
moment). Besides that Mozilla has started splitting up the application 
into separate browser/calendar/email parts quite some time ago. Why 
would we want to start integrating a full featured Jabber client into it?

What I would much, much, much rather like to see would be tight 
Jabber-Web integration. I'm one of the developers of phpBB 
(www.phpbb.com) and I've been thinking about ways to integrate Jabber 
into phpBB for quite some time now. A lot if integration is possible but 
only if the server would be able to run some kind of Jabber bot and most 
phpBB admins are not allowed to run a bot on the server of their hoster. 
This way most communication is stricktly one way. The board can send 
notifications to the user but the board can't receive any messages, 
well, except if it would poll a Jabber server but that's an everything 
but clean solution IMO.

Besides all this I think that Jabber should have world domination :) To 
get to that point we'll first have to beat existing systems like AIM, 
MSN, ICQ, etc. Before people will switch from those systems to Jabber 
they will first need a compelling argument to do this. "It's an open 
system" and "There is no central server" are not compelling arguments to 
Joe Average. IMO one of the points where Jabber could excel is in web 
integration. All the current systems barely integrate into the web 
and/or into email, the two major applications on the internet. If we 
could get Jabber tightly integrated into those systems we could gain a LOT.

It would be _so_ nice if I could login to a site through Jabber, send a 
chat message directly to a user from a webpage, receive notifications 
and see if persons on a webpage (or senders/recipients of an email) are 
online or not....

So if you are determined to make another Jabber client it should have 
some destinct advantages over existing clients. One such advantage could 
(or should?) be tight web/email integration.

With kind regards,

Bart van Bragt
From justin at openaether.org  Thu Aug 26 20:34:28 2004
From: justin at openaether.org (Justin)
Date: Thu Aug 26 19:52:00 2004
Subject: [Jabberzilla] seperate but equal
In-Reply-To: <412E2180.7030400@earthlink.net>
References: <412BEF1C.6070701@betterbilling.net> <412DAC30.10800@vanbragt.com>
	<412E2180.7030400@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <412E7384.5040003@openaether.org>



I would just like to add a couple things to what carl said.

Mozilla is not just a browser, it is a platform.  Not having a mozilla 
based jabber client is like not having a tcl/tk client or a gtk client.

Nothing, except a xpcom/xul based jabber project can integrate into the 
moz apps. And I would think we all know why this is a good thing.

So while Yet Another Jabber Client is definitely a bad thing. Given the 
above, jabberzilla  is much more than just a client, it has potential to 
be a toolkit in which to integrate presence and messaging in all core 
applications of the net (browser, email).  Thus, making jabber a first 
class netizen.

Justin




c tanner wrote:

> Integration is why I revived JabberZilla.  You can incorporate Jabber 
> things better if the browser can take advantage of it.  Don't get me 
> wrong about what I am about to state.  I like Psi, the main author, 
> and I think that it functions well as a cross-platform IM/chat 
> client.  In fact, until we get groupchat functioning well, I will use 
> Psi.  I have questions about its future, though:  Can Psi easily do 
> those cool integration things you mentioned? No, it can't.  Can Psi 
> easily implement the protocol xmpp:carlb@jabber.org in the user's 
> browser?  Not as easily as jz can.  Does Psi have the XUL widgets to 
> take advantage of the emerging pubsub standards (JEP 60) in a way that 
> creates a user-friendly web service?  I don't get that impression.  
> Even if it could or it does, I don't see Psi becoming more than the 
> text version of the telephone with presence.
> JabberZilla can be, and will be, much more because it comes from a web 
> browser background.  JabberZilla will implement not just a great 
> experience instant messaging with a GUI that is separate from its 
> functions, but what some are calling the 'Real-Time Internet,'  
> offering faster online apps that are designed to be easier to use for 
> the individual user and for the system administrator to manage.  The 
> separate GUI means that anyone with a small amount of help can create 
> his own custom GUI or skin.  In short, by leveraging the accumulated 
> effort of the mozilla community and by combining the technology of 
> Jabber with the existing technology of Mozilla, you will get more 
> value from JabberZilla than any other client on the web.
>
> Bart van Bragt wrote:


From tobias.fernandez at student.uni-ulm.de  Fri Aug 27 03:43:36 2004
From: tobias.fernandez at student.uni-ulm.de (Tobias Fernandez)
Date: Thu Aug 26 21:01:03 2004
Subject: [Jabberzilla] seperate but equal
In-Reply-To: <412BEF1C.6070701@betterbilling.net>
References: <412BEF1C.6070701@betterbilling.net>
Message-ID: <412E83B8.4030204@student.uni-ulm.de>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi Carl!

Carl Tanner wrote:

| 1.  Do you have a JID?

Sure with that.

| 2.  Have you ever visited the jabberzilla room (
| jabberzilla@conference.jabber.org ), and if so what nickname did you use?

Sorry, but there wasn't an apparent need for me to do so. Ok, that's not
a real excusion, sorry for that...

| 3.  In what form or forms would JabberZilla be the most useful for you?
|     (a) as a tbird extension
|     (b) as a firefox extension
|     (c) as a stand-alone application (like firefox or tbird)
|     (d) a combination of one of the above

IMHO Jabberzilla _has_ to be integrated in the
Mozilla/Firefox/Thunderbird-Environment, as a Standalone-Client wouldn't
benefit from the Mozilla XUL- or whatever-Interface (sorry, but I'm not
that familiar with the namings of Mozilla's Implementation) - it sounds
to me like an overkill.
Anyway, I would prefer a Jabber-Client integrated in the Mozilla
projects, but I definitely don't have the need for just another Jabber
client.

Greetings

Toby

BTW: Thank you for your efforts anyway!


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFBLoO4l9WGCYGQdUwRAt/3AKCf40k5bFHoaWNWKU507hp/K4Ui4wCZAUca
9FUJAlWENak0LaixhMFVbF4=
=hH8y
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
From strypey at riseup.net  Sat Aug 28 23:47:00 2004
From: strypey at riseup.net (Danyl Strype)
Date: Sat Aug 28 19:57:07 2004
Subject: [Jabberzilla] Re: development priorities
In-Reply-To: <412BEF1C.6070701@betterbilling.net>
References: <412BEF1C.6070701@betterbilling.net>
Message-ID: <1093690020.413062a45bea9@mail.riseup.net>

Kia ora,

Quoting Carl Tanner <carl@betterbilling.net>:

>> 1.  Do you have a JID? <<

strypey@jabber.org.au

>> 2.  Have you ever visited the jabberzilla room ( 
jabberzilla@conference.jabber.org ), and if so what
nickname
did you use? <<

Nope, still working on it ;) I add
(jabberzilla@conference.jabber.org) to my roster, is that
right?

> 3.  In what form or forms would JabberZilla be the most
> useful for you?
>      (a) as a tbird extension
>      (b) as a firefox extension
>      (c) as a stand-alone application (like firefox or
> tbird)
>      (d) a combination of one of the above

I mostly agree with what others have said. Existing IM apps
are easily broken toys (think Outlook if it could only send
email to other Outlook users). Jabberzilla needs to
contribute to an IM system that integrates so seamlessly
with other internet apps that my grandma could use it. I've
already mentioned allowing existing email addys to be
registered as JIDs like you can with .NET passports.

To me it's a question of priorities. 

Job #1 Mozilla browser/ Firefox extension because more
people use a browser than offline email.

Job #2 Mozilla Mail/ Thunderbird extensions because the
number of people who use offline email is probably higher
than the number who would download a stand-alone Jabber
client - at least initially.

Job #3 Sunbird extensions because being able to liase with
people in real time to set meeting times etc would be a
powerful addition to this calender module. Having done #1
and #2 it shouldn't be too hard and hopefully by that time
Sunbird 1.0 will be out and a signficiant pool of users
will have traded up from Outlook.

Job #3 Chatzilla extension. Mozilla already has a chat
client, why not add Jabberzilla code and make it a
multi-protocol chat app, initially as a more prominent
module in the Mozilla suite with a more inviting
interface.

Job #4 Jabberzilla client. Arguing against making a
standalone client because there are others is like arguing
against making a standalone browser like Firefox because
there are other browsers. It makes sense to me to package
all the work that has been done on Chatzilla and the work
that has and will be done on Jabberzilla as a slim,
user-friendly standalone multi-protocol client (one window
- no pop-ups or other things that bug users). But I agree
this is probably the lowest priority.

RnB,
Strypey

-- 
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free by using Mozilla
Thunderbird instead of Outlook Express. Windows on a PC
block viruses like windows on a house block sunlight ;)

"Anarchism's great project is to dissolve the asymmetry of
power. How? There are thousands of alternatives and there
is
not only one solution. To advance 'one' solution would be a
doctrine of power, a manifestation of power."
- Venezuelan University Academic Alfredo Vallota quoted in
El Libertario
 
Te Komako Motuhake - http://aotearoa.indymedia.org/ 
JabberID: strypey@jabber.org.au