12:14:52 <silfreed>	kinger: I can meet whenever
12:14:59 <silfreed>	I'm thinking gjm might be out of the office for the day, though
12:15:23 <kinger>	silfreed : Ok ... I'll start in a couple of minutes
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12:22:22 <kinger>	silfreed : since Gerry has left the building, perhaps you could give me a run down of any general site issues that are outstanding
12:22:36 <kinger>	anything that needs attention?
12:25:40 <silfreed>	the biggest thing I think outstanding is the server migration
12:25:46 <silfreed>	I'm not sure where we are on that
12:26:01 <silfreed>	we were waiting on the VM to be set back up at OSUOSL, but I think that part is done
12:26:22 <silfreed>	then we can migrate mirror composition to that VM and get the dev server out of TWS
12:26:52 <kinger>	this has been going on a good few months now, right?
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12:27:33 <silfreed>	yeah
12:28:04 <kinger>	do you know of anything we can do to move it along?
12:28:21 <silfreed>	I don't know what the status of the VM is; that'd be the first thing to figure out
12:28:34 <silfreed>	david sent an email about it a couple months ago; I can send another to see if I can help things along at all
12:28:55 <kinger>	ok I should bring that up on the list
12:29:05 <kinger>	no let me do it, thanks anyway
12:29:29 <kinger>	anything else?
12:30:06 <silfreed>	sent
12:30:12 <kinger>	ah
12:30:13 <silfreed>	whoops
12:30:18 <kinger>	nevermind
12:30:22 <silfreed>	I replied to David's mail
12:30:41 <silfreed>	that's what I get for switching away from the conversation :-/
12:31:18 <silfreed>	systems-wise I think things have been running well; we just need to do some server juggling
12:32:06 <silfreed>	I've been evaluating narro and working w/ the dev to try to get it usable for Mozdev
12:32:45 <silfreed>	I haven't done much looking at fizzypop (extension wizard) to see what needs done to make it work for us
12:33:22 <silfreed>	I should be able to get the edit-in-place stuff set up on your site for testing
12:33:35 <silfreed>	it's just not fully polished yet; some of the actions are still broken like eric noticed
12:34:31 <kinger>	RE: Narro - what's the latest there? Is it looking  good or are there any roadblocks?
12:34:36 <ericjung>	hi
12:34:45 <ericjung>	narro isn't as mature as i thought
12:34:59 <ericjung>	at least for Addon developers, i mean
12:35:14 <silfreed>	are there any other tools that are better?
12:35:26 <silfreed>	I saw l10n was evaluating something else; but I can't think of it off the top of my head
12:35:33 <kinger>	ericjung: not mature in what sense?
12:35:35 <silfreed>	I didn't see a very good status update on it, though
12:35:47 <kinger>	silme?
12:35:51 <ericjung>	kinger: hang on, i'll grab the bug i'm referring to
12:36:18 <silfreed>	kinger: re: narro, for Mozdev at least, we'd like some mapping of project contributors to projects so we don't have to manually manage permissions
12:36:19 <kinger>	mozilla l10n are working on their own solutions
12:36:31 <silfreed>	yeah, that's what I gathered
12:36:59 <kinger>	I thought Narro might be  a good lightweight solution which beats our current l10n tools, i.e. nothing ;)
12:37:20 <kinger>	but if it is not ready, then so be it ... perhaps we should look at something else
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12:37:55 <silfreed>	I think the challenge will be finding something that does external authentication well
12:38:11 <ericjung>	kinger: for example http://code.google.com/p/narro/issues/detail?id=123
12:38:15 <silfreed>	narro doesn't seem against that; just needs some time to get it in
12:39:02 <kinger>	Is Alexandru open to adding what we need? Does he have time?
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12:39:08 <ericjung>	http://code.google.com/p/narro/issues/detail?id=123 isn't a show-stopper, it just means some manual work for addon authors.
12:39:10 <silfreed>	yeah; he's open to it
12:39:15 <silfreed>	we have a bug open
12:39:48 <ericjung>	i think narro is still our best hope; the other tool seemed stagnant... what was it called, silfreed ?
12:39:48 <silfreed>	he already got some external auth support in; so users from mozdev can auth to narro w/ their existing usernames, but we don't have any project/project contributor permissions stuff yet
12:39:54 <ericjung>	it's in the bug
12:40:19 <kinger>	Ok, I propose making a list of features / bug fixes we need and presenting it to Alexandru ... and ask him for a timeframe
12:40:26 <silfreed>	Verbatim
12:40:44 <silfreed>	https://wiki.mozilla.org/Verbatim
12:40:50 <kinger>	We certainly can't demand anything from him, but he might be open to putting in the effort
12:40:53 <silfreed>	it's not even listed on https://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Tools
12:41:41 <kinger>	I think Verbatim development stalled
12:41:58 <ericjung>	we should ask closurew
12:42:02 <silfreed>	yeah; I didn't get around to asking about things in #l10n
12:42:05 <ericjung>	i think he's behind it
12:42:53 <ericjung>	anyway i agree with kinger ... "I propose making a list of features / bug fixes we need and presenting it to Alexandru ... and ask him for a timeframe"
12:43:15 <silfreed>	sure; I can ask him
12:43:22 <kinger>	If silme has a web front end component, we should have a quick look at that too
12:43:48 <ericjung>	slime?
12:43:53 <ericjung>	what the heck is silme?
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12:44:19 <silfreed>	the wiki doesn't have any samples of the web gui
12:44:30 <silfreed>	"Silme is an localization library written in python. "
12:44:32 <silfreed>	http://wiki.braniecki.net/Silme
12:44:34 *	clouserw (clouserw@7C1C722F.EC6EFF4C.3031298E.IP) has joined #mozdev
12:44:38 <ericjung>	clouserw: welcome
12:44:40 <silfreed>	it's on mozilla's l10n:tools page
12:44:41 <clouserw>	hi
12:44:52 <ericjung>	clouserw: can you tell us the status of Verbatim?
12:45:03 <ericjung>	clouserw: it is abandoned or just on pause?
12:45:16 <clouserw>	it's at the deciding point of that ;)
12:45:28 <ericjung>	clouserw: we are looking for an l10n tool for mozdev. any recommendations?
12:45:45 <clouserw>	the overall goal - to enable web translation - is not abandoned.  it will happen
12:45:48 <ericjung>	(i.e., an l10n tool to offer to addon authors)
12:45:56 <clouserw>	right
12:46:04 <clouserw>	so, I took a new position & responsibilities
12:46:05 <ericjung>	your thoughts on narro?
12:46:06 <clouserw>	and verbatim suffered
12:46:12 <clouserw>	for the past few months
12:46:28 <kinger>	clouserw: is/was the ultimate goal integration with AMO?
12:46:34 <clouserw>	we just scheduled time for wenzel to start taking responsibilities there
12:46:43 <clouserw>	and we have a meeting today about pootle vs. narro
12:47:03 <clouserw>	I don't have thoughts on either since I haven't looked at pootle in 3 months and narro in a year
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12:47:20 <clouserw>	kinger: what does integration mean?
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12:47:21 <kinger>	cluoserw: we too are evaluating, so sharing our findings/decisions would probably be helpful
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12:47:36 <ericjung>	pootle?
12:47:41 <ericjung>	never heard of that one.
12:47:48 <clouserw>	ericjung: pootle == verbatim
12:47:54 <kinger>	clouserw: I am not sure :) A tool on AMO for users to change their add-on strings I guess
12:48:07 <clouserw>	verbatim was our codeword for our project but it is now just pootle's trunk.  pootle was the original project
12:48:23 <silfreed>	clouserw: for mozdev it would mean giving project contributors access to manage their projects in the localization tool w/o any additional setup
12:48:34 <clouserw>	kinger: that's a whole different area than most l10n.  So, yeah, it would be nice, but it also needs a lot of planning
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12:48:50 <clouserw>	which means it's a ways off
12:48:53 <silfreed>	or at least, minimal set up
12:49:17 <clouserw>	kinger: have you done evaluation yet?  are your thoughts online anywhere?
12:49:42 <silfreed>	we've been working w/ the narro dev a little bit to get external auth working (which it does), we just need some group management integration done
12:49:59 <kinger>	clouserw : just narro. I don't think we have documented findings. Doug?
12:50:29 <silfreed>	I've mostly been working from the integration side; there are a couple things about that in bug#19655
12:50:31 <mdroid>	Bug https://www.mozdev.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=19655 normal, P2, ---, david@mozdev.org, NEW, Localization Tooling for Project Owners
12:51:10 <silfreed>	as far as which tool is best, I don't have a lot of experience localizing so I've been trying to defer to others for that decision
12:51:14 <silfreed>	we've mostly just looked at narro
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12:51:57 <ericjung>	clouserw: this is the pootle site? http://translate.sourceforge.net
12:51:57 <silfreed>	I was confused about the status of Verbatim which seemed like the best alternative
12:52:15 <clouserw>	I think they are all similar and will all have problems.  it's just a matter of figuring out what those problems are and working around them
12:52:40 <clouserw>	silfreed: verbatim is stale but will start moving forward this quarter or will be replaced and that project will move forward
12:52:53 <clouserw>	ericjung: yes
12:53:07 <kinger>	The main requirements are, web front-end, integration with our auth system, and as Doug said little or no user setup. Preferably little dev work our end as well, but we are willling to contribute for features we need I guess
12:53:24 <clouserw>	my recommendation in the meeting today will be to setup trunk versions of both and compare where they are at now
12:55:10 <silfreed>	clouserw: when/where's the meeting at?
12:55:22 <clouserw>	it's on the phone this afternoon
12:55:25 <silfreed>	ah, okay
12:55:31 <silfreed>	wasn't sure if it was irc
12:55:43 <clouserw>	I didn't organize it or write the agenda so I don't feel comfortable inviting people
12:55:55 <silfreed>	will minutes be posted somewhere?
12:56:10 <clouserw>	I think it's less formal than that ;)
12:56:53 <kinger>	we'll catch up with you about it later I guess
12:57:26 <silfreed>	heh. np
12:57:46 <silfreed>	clouserw: thanks for the insight and updates and for coming by
12:58:40 <ericjung>	clouserw: yes, thanks
12:59:27 <clouserw>	sure, I've got a meeting at 10 so I'm off
12:59:39 <silfreed>	yep, thanks again
12:59:44 <kinger>	silfreed: have to take a call now so we can wrap up
12:59:50 <kinger>	any questions?
12:59:51 <silfreed>	okay, no problem
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12:59:55 <silfreed>	not from me
13:00:01 <silfreed>	I'll post some brief minutes shortly
13:00:07 <kinger>	thanks for coming
13:00:10 <silfreed>	+ irc log
13:00:13 <silfreed>	yw
13:00:21 <kinger>	I'll drop by IRC more often now!
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13:02:12 <silfreed>	heh. np
13:02:18 <silfreed>	I'm usually lurking here at the very least
13:02:27 <silfreed>	so feel free to ping me whenever
13:02:27 <ericjung>	me too
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